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RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain

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  • Rawlings, Kevin
    Tim, No one is being dishonest if you are referring to me. There is some truth to what you say and I agree with you about the state, political and private
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 28 2:03 PM
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      Tim,

      No one is being dishonest if you are referring to me. There is some truth to
      what you say and I agree with you about the state, political and private
      concerns of the South Mountain battlefields. His question about the Reno and
      Garland monuments being moved, as far as I know, there are no plans afoot to
      move either unless you know something I do not. Also, at this point in time
      I am not associated with any group except Save Historic Antietam Foundation.
      I left CMHL awhile back because of a plethora of back stabbing politics and
      lip service in the name of battlefield preservation in the board of
      directors' current make up. Further, I have not been terribly happy with
      what the state has been up to(or not up to as the case may be)in the last
      several years. I am not anyone's agent just as you are not. Just a concerned
      civil war historian as you are.

      Kevin Rawlings

      -----Original Message-----
      From: tjrhys62 [mailto:tjreesecg@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 3:59 PM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain


      Richard,

      Your South Mountain question seems to have resurrected naïve
      assumptions about cooperative, incongruent battlefield ownership,
      its purported preservation, and the likelihood of achieving any
      symbiosis toward accessible park status. Complex questions require
      far more than simple answers, given the disparate groups involved
      possessed of wholly divergent if not incompatible objectives. Pay no
      attention to that man behind the curtain.

      Instead may I direct your attention to http://cwbn.blogspot.com/ for
      insightful investigation into the matter, postings for 3/5, 3/10,
      3/12, 3/16. This is an intermittent thread which you will easily
      pick up, a welcome breath of candor.

      Also, if you seek honest definition of "South Mountain"
      battlefields, and the political chicanery at work behind the scenes,
      have a look at http://home.earthlink.net/~tjreesecg/id6.html. All is
      not as it appears.

      Having waded through all this, then see http://mlis.state.md.us/PDF-
      Documents/2000rs/bills/hb/hb1183t.pdf for the official language of
      what South Mountain "Fake" Battlefield is and is not. It's icing
      without a cake which children naturally prefer.

      While the kiddies play, the house burns. Santa can't get down this
      chimney.

      Tim

      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@r...> wrote:
      > Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better.
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Rawlings, Kevin" <kevin.rawlings@s...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:21 PM
      > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
      >
      >
      > > Richard,
      > >
      > > The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The
      Garland
      > monumment
      > > is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now
      owns the
      > > Daniel Wise home site and the Appalachain Trail owns much of the
      right of
      > > way through there. Much of the land at Fox's Gap are is own by
      one group
      > or
      > > the other or development rights have been bought up by the
      state. At
      > > Turner's Gap as Tim Reese described the Frostown Road are is
      under
      > > developement attack but the Alt 40 up the gap is protected.
      > >
      > > Kevin Rawlings
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >



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    • tjrhys62
      Hi Kevin, No one is referring to you; nor is anyone questioning your motives. Let s be a little less sensitive. The dishonesty I invoke is inherent and
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 28 2:43 PM
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        Hi Kevin,

        No one is referring to you; nor is anyone questioning your motives.
        Let's be a little less sensitive. The dishonesty I invoke is
        inherent and deliberate to the entire mountain "preservation"
        process, infused into its every fiber from the get-go. When it all
        began back in the `80s only George Brigham and I gave a damn. George
        went off the deep end; I went back to the books where I remain. The
        next publishing installment appears in June.

        You and I both owe Richard a bit more candor. Of course the Reno and
        Garland monuments will stay put! The former has been there over a
        century; the latter is little more than a headstone sunk into CMHL
        land 250 yards from the site. How contrived. Richard of course knew
        they would remain, posing his question in saddened rhetoric. One can
        scarcely blame him, one who can appreciate D.H. Hill's dilemma.

        Those of us who have been on the "inside", who have experienced
        covert agendas, and who have been disgusted at the ensuing
        spectacle, owe it to every person interested in these sites to tell
        it like it was, is, and mostly likely will remain. The maxim is "qui
        tacet consentire": silence betokens consent.

        I don't like to admit it, but the grim truth is that the South
        Mountain battlefield (Turner's and Fox's) is a goner. Like those
        I've learned to detest, I could continue to pretend something
        meaningful is afoot. But it isn't. Only egos, careers, and bank
        accounts matter these days.

        You have my sincere sympathy for your past efforts, much good may
        they do you. But now isn't the time to let the bastards get away
        with it using our good will, tax dollars, and patience. It's time we
        all called a spade a spade in both historical and preservation
        contexts. Go through the URLs I sited to Richard; then tell me your
        blood doesn't boil.

        If we don't speak out, who will? Thanks for caring as always.

        Tim

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Rawlings, Kevin"
        <kevin.rawlings@s...> wrote:
        > Tim,
        >
        > No one is being dishonest if you are referring to me. There is
        some truth to
        > what you say and I agree with you about the state, political and
        private
        > concerns of the South Mountain battlefields. His question about
        the Reno and
        > Garland monuments being moved, as far as I know, there are no
        plans afoot to
        > move either unless you know something I do not. Also, at this
        point in time
        > I am not associated with any group except Save Historic Antietam
        Foundation.
        > I left CMHL awhile back because of a plethora of back stabbing
        politics and
        > lip service in the name of battlefield preservation in the board of
        > directors' current make up. Further, I have not been terribly
        happy with
        > what the state has been up to(or not up to as the case may be)in
        the last
        > several years. I am not anyone's agent just as you are not. Just a
        concerned
        > civil war historian as you are.
        >
        > Kevin Rawlings
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: tjrhys62 [mailto:tjreesecg@e...]
        > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 3:59 PM
        > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
        >
        >
        > Richard,
        >
        > Your South Mountain question seems to have resurrected naïve
        > assumptions about cooperative, incongruent battlefield ownership,
        > its purported preservation, and the likelihood of achieving any
        > symbiosis toward accessible park status. Complex questions require
        > far more than simple answers, given the disparate groups involved
        > possessed of wholly divergent if not incompatible objectives. Pay
        no
        > attention to that man behind the curtain.
        >
        > Instead may I direct your attention to http://cwbn.blogspot.com/
        for
        > insightful investigation into the matter, postings for 3/5, 3/10,
        > 3/12, 3/16. This is an intermittent thread which you will easily
        > pick up, a welcome breath of candor.
        >
        > Also, if you seek honest definition of "South Mountain"
        > battlefields, and the political chicanery at work behind the
        scenes,
        > have a look at http://home.earthlink.net/~tjreesecg/id6.html. All
        is
        > not as it appears.
        >
        > Having waded through all this, then see
        http://mlis.state.md.us/PDF-
        > Documents/2000rs/bills/hb/hb1183t.pdf for the official language of
        > what South Mountain "Fake" Battlefield is and is not. It's icing
        > without a cake which children naturally prefer.
        >
        > While the kiddies play, the house burns. Santa can't get down this
        > chimney.
        >
        > Tim
        >
        > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@r...> wrote:
        > > Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better.
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "Rawlings, Kevin" <kevin.rawlings@s...>
        > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:21 PM
        > > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
        > >
        > >
        > > > Richard,
        > > >
        > > > The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The
        > Garland
        > > monumment
        > > > is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now
        > owns the
        > > > Daniel Wise home site and the Appalachain Trail owns much of
        the
        > right of
        > > > way through there. Much of the land at Fox's Gap are is own by
        > one group
        > > or
        > > > the other or development rights have been bought up by the
        > state. At
        > > > Turner's Gap as Tim Reese described the Frostown Road are is
        > under
        > > > developement attack but the Alt 40 up the gap is protected.
        > > >
        > > > Kevin Rawlings
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
        -~--> Buy
        > Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
        Printer
        > at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
        > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
        > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/GmiolB/TM
        > -------------------------------------------------------------------
        --~->
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        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Ronald Church
        The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It s about a mile long and joins with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops back into and back
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 12 8:04 PM
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          The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
          with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops back
          into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't driven the
          loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
          last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the most
          Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue down
          at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to attack up
          the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
          Ron Church
          Manchester MD


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain


          > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to a
          > good
          > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you of
          > the
          > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
          >
          >
          >
          > Harry
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
          > On
          > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
          > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
          > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
          >
          >
          >
          > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
          > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
          > for a modern road name. Thanks.
          >
          > Stephen
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Stephen Recker
          Thanks guys. I ll head out right now. Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 13 5:32 AM
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            Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.

            Stephen

            On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:

            > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
            > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
            > back
            > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
            > driven the
            > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
            > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
            > most
            > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
            > down
            > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
            > attack up
            > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
            > Ron Church
            > Manchester MD
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
            > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
            >
            > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
            > a
            > > good
            > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
            > of
            > > the
            > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Harry
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
            > > On
            > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
            > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
            > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
            > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
            > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
            > >
            > > Stephen
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • rchurch@qis.net
            Meade s forces generally fanned out across the low area and drove up the ravine on your right. Hatch followed Dahlgren Road for several hundred yards beyond
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 13 6:14 AM
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              Meade's forces generally fanned out across the low area and drove up the ravine
              on your right. Hatch followed Dahlgren Road for several hundred yards beyond
              Frost Town Road then turned left off of the road and advanced up the hill
              through heavy woods on the left. Wish I could be there with you.

              Ron




              Quoting Stephen Recker <recker@...>:

              > Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.
              >
              > Stephen
              >
              > On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:
              >
              > > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
              > > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
              > > back
              > > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
              > > driven the
              > > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
              > > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
              > > most
              > > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
              > > down
              > > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
              > > attack up
              > > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
              > > Ron Church
              > > Manchester MD
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
              > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
              > > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
              > >
              > > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
              > > a
              > > > good
              > > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
              > > of
              > > > the
              > > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Harry
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
              > > > On
              > > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
              > > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
              > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
              > > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
              > > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
              > > >
              > > > Stephen
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Thomas Clemens
              Stephen, You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road takes you
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 13 12:53 PM
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                Stephen,
                You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road takes you down the other side of the ravine where Meade attacked and is also a way to view the field.
                And Harry, Bite me! :-)

                Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                Professor of History
                Hagerstown Community College


                >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 04/13/07 8:32 AM >>>
                Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.

                Stephen

                On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:

                > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
                > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
                > back
                > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
                > driven the
                > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
                > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
                > most
                > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
                > down
                > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
                > attack up
                > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
                > Ron Church
                > Manchester MD
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
                > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                >
                > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
                > a
                > > good
                > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
                > of
                > > the
                > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Harry
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                > > On
                > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
                > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
                > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
                > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
                > >
                > > Stephen
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • jdpolaski@aol.com
                I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal flags being used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they and what
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 13 2:03 PM
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                  I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal flags being
                  used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they and what
                  communications did they send out.



                  ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Adam Zimmerli
                  According to Edward Porter Alexander: I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the fight [for Turner s Gap] & some one discovered a
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 13 3:56 PM
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                    According to Edward Porter Alexander:
                    "I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the
                    fight [for Turner's Gap] & some one discovered a small party of
                    people on what seemed to be an old tower on the mountain top [the
                    Washington Monument] about a mile north of the pass. There were some
                    indications that it might be a signal party of the enemy sending
                    messages of our approach, &, itching to have some personal role in
                    a fight, I suggested to Gen. Lee that I might take a few men & go
                    recapture it. He approved & had eight men sent with me from some
                    brigade, I forget whose. I got in cover of some woods & then struck
                    up the mountain side &, after a hard, hot climb, at last got up &
                    around the tower (which seemed to have been built originally for a
                    windmill) before the party on it knew of my approach. But they were
                    plainly all natives of the vicinity attracted by the firing and up
                    there to see the battle. I was quite disgusted at the peaceful
                    character of my capture & left them after seeing that the position
                    gave no valuable view of the enemy's ground & I pushed on to the
                    front & right, towards the firing." Pages 142-143, Fighting for the
                    Confederacy.

                    According to the footnotes of the book, the tower was actually
                    effectively in ruins by 1862. If EPA didn't think it gave a good
                    view of the federals, could the same be said of the confederate army
                    moving out of Boonsboro? I wonder, since it would be something one
                    would assume he would think about.

                    Anybody know where the 8 men came from?

                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, jdpolaski@... wrote:
                    >
                    > I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal
                    flags being
                    > used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they
                    and what
                    > communications did they send out.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ************************************** See what's free at
                    http://www.aol.com
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Stephen Recker
                    Tom, That is great. Thanks. Now I ll just stand back out of the way... Stephen
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 13 6:35 PM
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                      Tom,

                      That is great. Thanks.

                      Now I'll just stand back out of the way...<g>

                      Stephen




                      On Friday, April 13, 2007, at 03:53 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                      > Stephen,
                      > You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn
                      > right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road
                      > takes you down the other side of the ravine where Meade attacked and
                      > is also a way to view the field.
                      > And Harry, Bite me! :-)
                      >
                      > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      > Professor of History
                      > Hagerstown Community College
                    • Thomas Clemens
                      It would have been more useful to the the Union thant the COnfederates, but EPA s account is the only real solid mention of it. It was uded i nthe Gettysburg
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 14 1:09 PM
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                        It would have been more useful to the the Union thant the COnfederates, but EPA's account is the only real solid mention of it. It was uded i nthe Gettysburg by Union signalman, including Wm. J. L. Nicodemus.


                        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                        Professor of History
                        Hagerstown Community College


                        >>> "Adam Zimmerli" <azimmerli@...> 04/13/07 6:56 PM >>>
                        According to Edward Porter Alexander:
                        "I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the
                        fight [for Turner's Gap] & some one discovered a small party of
                        people on what seemed to be an old tower on the mountain top [the
                        Washington Monument] about a mile north of the pass. There were some
                        indications that it might be a signal party of the enemy sending
                        messages of our approach, &, itching to have some personal role in
                        a fight, I suggested to Gen. Lee that I might take a few men & go
                        recapture it. He approved & had eight men sent with me from some
                        brigade, I forget whose. I got in cover of some woods & then struck
                        up the mountain side &, after a hard, hot climb, at last got up &
                        around the tower (which seemed to have been built originally for a
                        windmill) before the party on it knew of my approach. But they were
                        plainly all natives of the vicinity attracted by the firing and up
                        there to see the battle. I was quite disgusted at the peaceful
                        character of my capture & left them after seeing that the position
                        gave no valuable view of the enemy's ground & I pushed on to the
                        front & right, towards the firing." Pages 142-143, Fighting for the
                        Confederacy.

                        According to the footnotes of the book, the tower was actually
                        effectively in ruins by 1862. If EPA didn't think it gave a good
                        view of the federals, could the same be said of the confederate army
                        moving out of Boonsboro? I wonder, since it would be something one
                        would assume he would think about.

                        Anybody know where the 8 men came from?

                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, jdpolaski@... wrote:
                        >
                        > I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal
                        flags being
                        > used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they
                        and what
                        > communications did they send out.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ************************************** See what's free at
                        http://www.aol.com
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Stephen Recker
                        Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of Maryland got into for joining Lee s army during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks. Stephen
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 19 6:00 PM
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                          Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of Maryland
                          got into for joining Lee's army during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks.

                          Stephen
                        • G E Mayers
                          Stephen, Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee s Army during the same
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 19 6:08 PM
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                            Stephen,

                            Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                            Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                            during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned home
                            to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for a
                            bit.

                            Scott Mingus Sr. might be able to give you the story if you contact
                            him at scottmingus@...

                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                            one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                            passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                            God. --Anonymous
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:00 PM
                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Treason?


                            > Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of
                            > Maryland
                            > got into for joining Lee's army during the Maryland Campaign?
                            > Thanks.
                            >
                            > Stephen
                            >
                            >
                          • Stephen Recker
                            Thanks. maybe it s in his new book. Stephen
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 19 6:40 PM
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                              Thanks. maybe it's in his new book.

                              Stephen

                              On Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 09:08 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                              > Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                              > Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                              > during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned home
                              > to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for a
                              > bit.
                            • G E Mayers
                              Stephen, Yes, it is. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is an
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 20 2:08 AM
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                                Stephen,

                                Yes, it is.

                                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                                passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                                God. --Anonymous
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:40 PM
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Treason?


                                > Thanks. maybe it's in his new book.
                                >
                                > Stephen
                                >
                                > On Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 09:08 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                >
                                >> Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                                >> Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                                >> during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned
                                >> home
                                >> to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for
                                >> a
                                >> bit.
                                >
                                >
                              • colliszouave@yahoo.com
                                Besides John Hoptak s book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by Clemens, what others are must-haves re: South Mountain? Respectfully, Mike Peters
                                Message 15 of 25 , Apr 17 3:55 PM
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                                  Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                  Respectfully,

                                  Mike Peters
                                  Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                                • G E Mayers
                                  Mike; Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M Priest s book Before Antietam as a good guide for South Mountain fighting. Also,
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Apr 17 5:51 PM
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                                    Mike;

                                    Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                                    Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain fighting.
                                    Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                                    Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                    mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                    any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                    Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                    Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                                    To: Talk Antietam
                                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                    Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                    Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                    Respectfully,

                                    Mike Peters
                                    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Jim Rosebrock
                                    Mike You should also consider Tim Reese s book on the Battle of Crampton s Gap. It is titled Sealed With Their Lives. I don t know if you can get it new.
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Apr 17 6:23 PM
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                                      Mike
                                      You should also consider Tim Reese's book on the Battle of Crampton's Gap. It
                                      is titled Sealed With Their Lives. I don't know if you can get it new. Amazon
                                      has it here. It is out of print (I think) and a little expensive but worth your
                                      consideration.
                                      Regards
                                      Jim Rosebrock





                                      ________________________________
                                      From: "colliszouave@..." <colliszouave@...>
                                      To: Talk Antietam <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Sun, April 17, 2011 6:55:34 PM
                                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain


                                      Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                      Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                      Respectfully,

                                      Mike Peters
                                      Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • colliszouave@yahoo.com
                                      Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve! ... From: G E Mayers Sender: Talk Antietam To: Talk Antietam ReplyTo: Talk Antietam Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Apr 17 6:38 PM
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                                        Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve!
                                        ------Original Message------
                                        From: G E Mayers
                                        Sender: Talk Antietam
                                        To: Talk Antietam
                                        ReplyTo: Talk Antietam
                                        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                        Sent: Apr 17, 2011 8:51 PM

                                        Mike;

                                        Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                                        Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain fighting.
                                        Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                                        Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                        mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                        any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                        Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                        Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                                        To: Talk Antietam
                                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                        Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                        Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                        Respectfully,

                                        Mike Peters
                                        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                        ------------------------------------


                                        Yahoo! Groups Links





                                        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                                      • G E Mayers
                                        Mike; You might also find the late Joseph Harsh s book Taken at the Flood to have much useful information as well. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Apr 17 7:38 PM
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                                          Mike;

                                          You might also find the late Joseph Harsh's book "Taken at the Flood" to
                                          have much useful information as well.

                                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                          mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                          any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                          Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                          Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:39 PM
                                          To: Talk Antietam
                                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                          Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve!
                                          ------Original Message------
                                          From: G E Mayers
                                          Sender: Talk Antietam
                                          To: Talk Antietam
                                          ReplyTo: Talk Antietam
                                          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                          Sent: Apr 17, 2011 8:51 PM

                                          Mike;

                                          Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                                          Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain
                                          fighting.
                                          Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                                          Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                          mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                          any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                          Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                          Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                                          To: Talk Antietam
                                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                          Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                          Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                          Respectfully,

                                          Mike Peters
                                          Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                          ------------------------------------


                                          Yahoo! Groups Links





                                          Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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