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Re: South Mountain

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  • tjrhys62
    Richard, Your South Mountain question seems to have resurrected naïve assumptions about cooperative, incongruent battlefield ownership, its purported
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 28 12:59 PM
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      Richard,

      Your South Mountain question seems to have resurrected naïve
      assumptions about cooperative, incongruent battlefield ownership,
      its purported preservation, and the likelihood of achieving any
      symbiosis toward accessible park status. Complex questions require
      far more than simple answers, given the disparate groups involved
      possessed of wholly divergent if not incompatible objectives. Pay no
      attention to that man behind the curtain.

      Instead may I direct your attention to http://cwbn.blogspot.com/ for
      insightful investigation into the matter, postings for 3/5, 3/10,
      3/12, 3/16. This is an intermittent thread which you will easily
      pick up, a welcome breath of candor.

      Also, if you seek honest definition of "South Mountain"
      battlefields, and the political chicanery at work behind the scenes,
      have a look at http://home.earthlink.net/~tjreesecg/id6.html. All is
      not as it appears.

      Having waded through all this, then see http://mlis.state.md.us/PDF-
      Documents/2000rs/bills/hb/hb1183t.pdf for the official language of
      what South Mountain "Fake" Battlefield is and is not. It's icing
      without a cake which children naturally prefer.

      While the kiddies play, the house burns. Santa can't get down this
      chimney.

      Tim

      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@r...> wrote:
      > Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better.
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Rawlings, Kevin" <kevin.rawlings@s...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:21 PM
      > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
      >
      >
      > > Richard,
      > >
      > > The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The
      Garland
      > monumment
      > > is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now
      owns the
      > > Daniel Wise home site and the Appalachain Trail owns much of the
      right of
      > > way through there. Much of the land at Fox's Gap are is own by
      one group
      > or
      > > the other or development rights have been bought up by the
      state. At
      > > Turner's Gap as Tim Reese described the Frostown Road are is
      under
      > > developement attack but the Alt 40 up the gap is protected.
      > >
      > > Kevin Rawlings
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
    • Rawlings, Kevin
      Tim, No one is being dishonest if you are referring to me. There is some truth to what you say and I agree with you about the state, political and private
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 28 2:03 PM
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        Tim,

        No one is being dishonest if you are referring to me. There is some truth to
        what you say and I agree with you about the state, political and private
        concerns of the South Mountain battlefields. His question about the Reno and
        Garland monuments being moved, as far as I know, there are no plans afoot to
        move either unless you know something I do not. Also, at this point in time
        I am not associated with any group except Save Historic Antietam Foundation.
        I left CMHL awhile back because of a plethora of back stabbing politics and
        lip service in the name of battlefield preservation in the board of
        directors' current make up. Further, I have not been terribly happy with
        what the state has been up to(or not up to as the case may be)in the last
        several years. I am not anyone's agent just as you are not. Just a concerned
        civil war historian as you are.

        Kevin Rawlings

        -----Original Message-----
        From: tjrhys62 [mailto:tjreesecg@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 3:59 PM
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain


        Richard,

        Your South Mountain question seems to have resurrected naïve
        assumptions about cooperative, incongruent battlefield ownership,
        its purported preservation, and the likelihood of achieving any
        symbiosis toward accessible park status. Complex questions require
        far more than simple answers, given the disparate groups involved
        possessed of wholly divergent if not incompatible objectives. Pay no
        attention to that man behind the curtain.

        Instead may I direct your attention to http://cwbn.blogspot.com/ for
        insightful investigation into the matter, postings for 3/5, 3/10,
        3/12, 3/16. This is an intermittent thread which you will easily
        pick up, a welcome breath of candor.

        Also, if you seek honest definition of "South Mountain"
        battlefields, and the political chicanery at work behind the scenes,
        have a look at http://home.earthlink.net/~tjreesecg/id6.html. All is
        not as it appears.

        Having waded through all this, then see http://mlis.state.md.us/PDF-
        Documents/2000rs/bills/hb/hb1183t.pdf for the official language of
        what South Mountain "Fake" Battlefield is and is not. It's icing
        without a cake which children naturally prefer.

        While the kiddies play, the house burns. Santa can't get down this
        chimney.

        Tim

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@r...> wrote:
        > Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better.
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Rawlings, Kevin" <kevin.rawlings@s...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:21 PM
        > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
        >
        >
        > > Richard,
        > >
        > > The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The
        Garland
        > monumment
        > > is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now
        owns the
        > > Daniel Wise home site and the Appalachain Trail owns much of the
        right of
        > > way through there. Much of the land at Fox's Gap are is own by
        one group
        > or
        > > the other or development rights have been bought up by the
        state. At
        > > Turner's Gap as Tim Reese described the Frostown Road are is
        under
        > > developement attack but the Alt 40 up the gap is protected.
        > >
        > > Kevin Rawlings
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >



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      • tjrhys62
        Hi Kevin, No one is referring to you; nor is anyone questioning your motives. Let s be a little less sensitive. The dishonesty I invoke is inherent and
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 28 2:43 PM
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          Hi Kevin,

          No one is referring to you; nor is anyone questioning your motives.
          Let's be a little less sensitive. The dishonesty I invoke is
          inherent and deliberate to the entire mountain "preservation"
          process, infused into its every fiber from the get-go. When it all
          began back in the `80s only George Brigham and I gave a damn. George
          went off the deep end; I went back to the books where I remain. The
          next publishing installment appears in June.

          You and I both owe Richard a bit more candor. Of course the Reno and
          Garland monuments will stay put! The former has been there over a
          century; the latter is little more than a headstone sunk into CMHL
          land 250 yards from the site. How contrived. Richard of course knew
          they would remain, posing his question in saddened rhetoric. One can
          scarcely blame him, one who can appreciate D.H. Hill's dilemma.

          Those of us who have been on the "inside", who have experienced
          covert agendas, and who have been disgusted at the ensuing
          spectacle, owe it to every person interested in these sites to tell
          it like it was, is, and mostly likely will remain. The maxim is "qui
          tacet consentire": silence betokens consent.

          I don't like to admit it, but the grim truth is that the South
          Mountain battlefield (Turner's and Fox's) is a goner. Like those
          I've learned to detest, I could continue to pretend something
          meaningful is afoot. But it isn't. Only egos, careers, and bank
          accounts matter these days.

          You have my sincere sympathy for your past efforts, much good may
          they do you. But now isn't the time to let the bastards get away
          with it using our good will, tax dollars, and patience. It's time we
          all called a spade a spade in both historical and preservation
          contexts. Go through the URLs I sited to Richard; then tell me your
          blood doesn't boil.

          If we don't speak out, who will? Thanks for caring as always.

          Tim

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Rawlings, Kevin"
          <kevin.rawlings@s...> wrote:
          > Tim,
          >
          > No one is being dishonest if you are referring to me. There is
          some truth to
          > what you say and I agree with you about the state, political and
          private
          > concerns of the South Mountain battlefields. His question about
          the Reno and
          > Garland monuments being moved, as far as I know, there are no
          plans afoot to
          > move either unless you know something I do not. Also, at this
          point in time
          > I am not associated with any group except Save Historic Antietam
          Foundation.
          > I left CMHL awhile back because of a plethora of back stabbing
          politics and
          > lip service in the name of battlefield preservation in the board of
          > directors' current make up. Further, I have not been terribly
          happy with
          > what the state has been up to(or not up to as the case may be)in
          the last
          > several years. I am not anyone's agent just as you are not. Just a
          concerned
          > civil war historian as you are.
          >
          > Kevin Rawlings
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: tjrhys62 [mailto:tjreesecg@e...]
          > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 3:59 PM
          > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
          >
          >
          > Richard,
          >
          > Your South Mountain question seems to have resurrected naïve
          > assumptions about cooperative, incongruent battlefield ownership,
          > its purported preservation, and the likelihood of achieving any
          > symbiosis toward accessible park status. Complex questions require
          > far more than simple answers, given the disparate groups involved
          > possessed of wholly divergent if not incompatible objectives. Pay
          no
          > attention to that man behind the curtain.
          >
          > Instead may I direct your attention to http://cwbn.blogspot.com/
          for
          > insightful investigation into the matter, postings for 3/5, 3/10,
          > 3/12, 3/16. This is an intermittent thread which you will easily
          > pick up, a welcome breath of candor.
          >
          > Also, if you seek honest definition of "South Mountain"
          > battlefields, and the political chicanery at work behind the
          scenes,
          > have a look at http://home.earthlink.net/~tjreesecg/id6.html. All
          is
          > not as it appears.
          >
          > Having waded through all this, then see
          http://mlis.state.md.us/PDF-
          > Documents/2000rs/bills/hb/hb1183t.pdf for the official language of
          > what South Mountain "Fake" Battlefield is and is not. It's icing
          > without a cake which children naturally prefer.
          >
          > While the kiddies play, the house burns. Santa can't get down this
          > chimney.
          >
          > Tim
          >
          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@r...> wrote:
          > > Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better.
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "Rawlings, Kevin" <kevin.rawlings@s...>
          > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:21 PM
          > > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
          > >
          > >
          > > > Richard,
          > > >
          > > > The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The
          > Garland
          > > monumment
          > > > is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now
          > owns the
          > > > Daniel Wise home site and the Appalachain Trail owns much of
          the
          > right of
          > > > way through there. Much of the land at Fox's Gap are is own by
          > one group
          > > or
          > > > the other or development rights have been bought up by the
          > state. At
          > > > Turner's Gap as Tim Reese described the Frostown Road are is
          > under
          > > > developement attack but the Alt 40 up the gap is protected.
          > > >
          > > > Kevin Rawlings
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
          -~--> Buy
          > Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
          Printer
          > at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
          > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
          > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/GmiolB/TM
          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
          --~->
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Ronald Church
          The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It s about a mile long and joins with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops back into and back
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 12 8:04 PM
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            The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
            with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops back
            into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't driven the
            loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
            last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the most
            Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue down
            at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to attack up
            the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
            Ron Church
            Manchester MD


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain


            > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to a
            > good
            > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you of
            > the
            > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
            >
            >
            >
            > Harry
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
            > On
            > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
            > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
            >
            >
            >
            > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
            > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
            > for a modern road name. Thanks.
            >
            > Stephen
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Stephen Recker
            Thanks guys. I ll head out right now. Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 13 5:32 AM
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              Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.

              Stephen

              On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:

              > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
              > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
              > back
              > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
              > driven the
              > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
              > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
              > most
              > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
              > down
              > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
              > attack up
              > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
              > Ron Church
              > Manchester MD
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
              > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
              >
              > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
              > a
              > > good
              > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
              > of
              > > the
              > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Harry
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
              > > On
              > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
              > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
              > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
              > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
              > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
              > >
              > > Stephen
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • rchurch@qis.net
              Meade s forces generally fanned out across the low area and drove up the ravine on your right. Hatch followed Dahlgren Road for several hundred yards beyond
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 13 6:14 AM
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                Meade's forces generally fanned out across the low area and drove up the ravine
                on your right. Hatch followed Dahlgren Road for several hundred yards beyond
                Frost Town Road then turned left off of the road and advanced up the hill
                through heavy woods on the left. Wish I could be there with you.

                Ron




                Quoting Stephen Recker <recker@...>:

                > Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.
                >
                > Stephen
                >
                > On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:
                >
                > > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
                > > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
                > > back
                > > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
                > > driven the
                > > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
                > > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
                > > most
                > > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
                > > down
                > > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
                > > attack up
                > > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
                > > Ron Church
                > > Manchester MD
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
                > > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                > >
                > > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
                > > a
                > > > good
                > > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
                > > of
                > > > the
                > > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Harry
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                > > > On
                > > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                > > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
                > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
                > > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
                > > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
                > > >
                > > > Stephen
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Thomas Clemens
                Stephen, You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road takes you
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 13 12:53 PM
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                  Stephen,
                  You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road takes you down the other side of the ravine where Meade attacked and is also a way to view the field.
                  And Harry, Bite me! :-)

                  Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  Professor of History
                  Hagerstown Community College


                  >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 04/13/07 8:32 AM >>>
                  Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.

                  Stephen

                  On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:

                  > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
                  > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
                  > back
                  > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
                  > driven the
                  > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
                  > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
                  > most
                  > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
                  > down
                  > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
                  > attack up
                  > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
                  > Ron Church
                  > Manchester MD
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                  > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                  >
                  > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
                  > a
                  > > good
                  > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
                  > of
                  > > the
                  > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Harry
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                  > > On
                  > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                  > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
                  > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
                  > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
                  > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
                  > >
                  > > Stephen
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • jdpolaski@aol.com
                  I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal flags being used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they and what
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 13 2:03 PM
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                    I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal flags being
                    used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they and what
                    communications did they send out.



                    ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Adam Zimmerli
                    According to Edward Porter Alexander: I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the fight [for Turner s Gap] & some one discovered a
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 13 3:56 PM
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                      According to Edward Porter Alexander:
                      "I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the
                      fight [for Turner's Gap] & some one discovered a small party of
                      people on what seemed to be an old tower on the mountain top [the
                      Washington Monument] about a mile north of the pass. There were some
                      indications that it might be a signal party of the enemy sending
                      messages of our approach, &, itching to have some personal role in
                      a fight, I suggested to Gen. Lee that I might take a few men & go
                      recapture it. He approved & had eight men sent with me from some
                      brigade, I forget whose. I got in cover of some woods & then struck
                      up the mountain side &, after a hard, hot climb, at last got up &
                      around the tower (which seemed to have been built originally for a
                      windmill) before the party on it knew of my approach. But they were
                      plainly all natives of the vicinity attracted by the firing and up
                      there to see the battle. I was quite disgusted at the peaceful
                      character of my capture & left them after seeing that the position
                      gave no valuable view of the enemy's ground & I pushed on to the
                      front & right, towards the firing." Pages 142-143, Fighting for the
                      Confederacy.

                      According to the footnotes of the book, the tower was actually
                      effectively in ruins by 1862. If EPA didn't think it gave a good
                      view of the federals, could the same be said of the confederate army
                      moving out of Boonsboro? I wonder, since it would be something one
                      would assume he would think about.

                      Anybody know where the 8 men came from?

                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, jdpolaski@... wrote:
                      >
                      > I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal
                      flags being
                      > used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they
                      and what
                      > communications did they send out.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ************************************** See what's free at
                      http://www.aol.com
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Stephen Recker
                      Tom, That is great. Thanks. Now I ll just stand back out of the way... Stephen
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 13 6:35 PM
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                        Tom,

                        That is great. Thanks.

                        Now I'll just stand back out of the way...<g>

                        Stephen




                        On Friday, April 13, 2007, at 03:53 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                        > Stephen,
                        > You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn
                        > right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road
                        > takes you down the other side of the ravine where Meade attacked and
                        > is also a way to view the field.
                        > And Harry, Bite me! :-)
                        >
                        > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                        > Professor of History
                        > Hagerstown Community College
                      • Thomas Clemens
                        It would have been more useful to the the Union thant the COnfederates, but EPA s account is the only real solid mention of it. It was uded i nthe Gettysburg
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 14 1:09 PM
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                          It would have been more useful to the the Union thant the COnfederates, but EPA's account is the only real solid mention of it. It was uded i nthe Gettysburg by Union signalman, including Wm. J. L. Nicodemus.


                          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                          Professor of History
                          Hagerstown Community College


                          >>> "Adam Zimmerli" <azimmerli@...> 04/13/07 6:56 PM >>>
                          According to Edward Porter Alexander:
                          "I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the
                          fight [for Turner's Gap] & some one discovered a small party of
                          people on what seemed to be an old tower on the mountain top [the
                          Washington Monument] about a mile north of the pass. There were some
                          indications that it might be a signal party of the enemy sending
                          messages of our approach, &, itching to have some personal role in
                          a fight, I suggested to Gen. Lee that I might take a few men & go
                          recapture it. He approved & had eight men sent with me from some
                          brigade, I forget whose. I got in cover of some woods & then struck
                          up the mountain side &, after a hard, hot climb, at last got up &
                          around the tower (which seemed to have been built originally for a
                          windmill) before the party on it knew of my approach. But they were
                          plainly all natives of the vicinity attracted by the firing and up
                          there to see the battle. I was quite disgusted at the peaceful
                          character of my capture & left them after seeing that the position
                          gave no valuable view of the enemy's ground & I pushed on to the
                          front & right, towards the firing." Pages 142-143, Fighting for the
                          Confederacy.

                          According to the footnotes of the book, the tower was actually
                          effectively in ruins by 1862. If EPA didn't think it gave a good
                          view of the federals, could the same be said of the confederate army
                          moving out of Boonsboro? I wonder, since it would be something one
                          would assume he would think about.

                          Anybody know where the 8 men came from?

                          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, jdpolaski@... wrote:
                          >
                          > I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal
                          flags being
                          > used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they
                          and what
                          > communications did they send out.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ************************************** See what's free at
                          http://www.aol.com
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Stephen Recker
                          Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of Maryland got into for joining Lee s army during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks. Stephen
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 19 6:00 PM
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                            Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of Maryland
                            got into for joining Lee's army during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks.

                            Stephen
                          • G E Mayers
                            Stephen, Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee s Army during the same
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 19 6:08 PM
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                              Stephen,

                              Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                              Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                              during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned home
                              to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for a
                              bit.

                              Scott Mingus Sr. might be able to give you the story if you contact
                              him at scottmingus@...

                              Yr. Obt. Svt.
                              G E "Gerry" Mayers

                              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                              one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                              passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                              God. --Anonymous
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:00 PM
                              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Treason?


                              > Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of
                              > Maryland
                              > got into for joining Lee's army during the Maryland Campaign?
                              > Thanks.
                              >
                              > Stephen
                              >
                              >
                            • Stephen Recker
                              Thanks. maybe it s in his new book. Stephen
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 19 6:40 PM
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                                Thanks. maybe it's in his new book.

                                Stephen

                                On Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 09:08 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                                > Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                                > Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                                > during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned home
                                > to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for a
                                > bit.
                              • G E Mayers
                                Stephen, Yes, it is. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is an
                                Message 15 of 25 , Apr 20 2:08 AM
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                                  Stephen,

                                  Yes, it is.

                                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                  one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                                  passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                                  God. --Anonymous
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:40 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Treason?


                                  > Thanks. maybe it's in his new book.
                                  >
                                  > Stephen
                                  >
                                  > On Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 09:08 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                                  >> Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                                  >> during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned
                                  >> home
                                  >> to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for
                                  >> a
                                  >> bit.
                                  >
                                  >
                                • colliszouave@yahoo.com
                                  Besides John Hoptak s book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by Clemens, what others are must-haves re: South Mountain? Respectfully, Mike Peters
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Apr 17 3:55 PM
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                                    Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                    Respectfully,

                                    Mike Peters
                                    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                                  • G E Mayers
                                    Mike; Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M Priest s book Before Antietam as a good guide for South Mountain fighting. Also,
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Apr 17 5:51 PM
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                                      Mike;

                                      Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                                      Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain fighting.
                                      Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                                      Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                      mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                      any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                      Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                      Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                                      To: Talk Antietam
                                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                      Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                      Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                      Respectfully,

                                      Mike Peters
                                      Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Jim Rosebrock
                                      Mike You should also consider Tim Reese s book on the Battle of Crampton s Gap. It is titled Sealed With Their Lives. I don t know if you can get it new.
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Apr 17 6:23 PM
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                                        Mike
                                        You should also consider Tim Reese's book on the Battle of Crampton's Gap. It
                                        is titled Sealed With Their Lives. I don't know if you can get it new. Amazon
                                        has it here. It is out of print (I think) and a little expensive but worth your
                                        consideration.
                                        Regards
                                        Jim Rosebrock





                                        ________________________________
                                        From: "colliszouave@..." <colliszouave@...>
                                        To: Talk Antietam <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Sun, April 17, 2011 6:55:34 PM
                                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain


                                        Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                        Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                        Respectfully,

                                        Mike Peters
                                        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • colliszouave@yahoo.com
                                        Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve! ... From: G E Mayers Sender: Talk Antietam To: Talk Antietam ReplyTo: Talk Antietam Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Apr 17 6:38 PM
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                                          Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve!
                                          ------Original Message------
                                          From: G E Mayers
                                          Sender: Talk Antietam
                                          To: Talk Antietam
                                          ReplyTo: Talk Antietam
                                          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                          Sent: Apr 17, 2011 8:51 PM

                                          Mike;

                                          Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                                          Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain fighting.
                                          Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                                          Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                          mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                          any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                          Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                          Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                                          To: Talk Antietam
                                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                          Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                          Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                          Respectfully,

                                          Mike Peters
                                          Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                          ------------------------------------


                                          Yahoo! Groups Links





                                          Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                                        • G E Mayers
                                          Mike; You might also find the late Joseph Harsh s book Taken at the Flood to have much useful information as well. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Apr 17 7:38 PM
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                                            Mike;

                                            You might also find the late Joseph Harsh's book "Taken at the Flood" to
                                            have much useful information as well.

                                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                            mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                            any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                            Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                            Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:39 PM
                                            To: Talk Antietam
                                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                            Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve!
                                            ------Original Message------
                                            From: G E Mayers
                                            Sender: Talk Antietam
                                            To: Talk Antietam
                                            ReplyTo: Talk Antietam
                                            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                            Sent: Apr 17, 2011 8:51 PM

                                            Mike;

                                            Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                                            Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain
                                            fighting.
                                            Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                                            Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                            mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                            any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                            Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                            Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                                            To: Talk Antietam
                                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                            Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                            Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                            Respectfully,

                                            Mike Peters
                                            Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                            ------------------------------------


                                            Yahoo! Groups Links





                                            Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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