Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain

Expand Messages
  • richard@rcroker.com
    Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better. ... From: Rawlings, Kevin To: Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 28 11:49 AM
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Rawlings, Kevin" <kevin.rawlings@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:21 PM
      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain


      > Richard,
      >
      > The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The Garland
      monumment
      > is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now owns the
      > Daniel Wise home site and the Appalachain Trail owns much of the right of
      > way through there. Much of the land at Fox's Gap are is own by one group
      or
      > the other or development rights have been bought up by the state. At
      > Turner's Gap as Tim Reese described the Frostown Road are is under
      > developement attack but the Alt 40 up the gap is protected.
      >
      > Kevin Rawlings
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • tjrhys62
      Richard, Your South Mountain question seems to have resurrected naïve assumptions about cooperative, incongruent battlefield ownership, its purported
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 28 12:59 PM
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Richard,

        Your South Mountain question seems to have resurrected naïve
        assumptions about cooperative, incongruent battlefield ownership,
        its purported preservation, and the likelihood of achieving any
        symbiosis toward accessible park status. Complex questions require
        far more than simple answers, given the disparate groups involved
        possessed of wholly divergent if not incompatible objectives. Pay no
        attention to that man behind the curtain.

        Instead may I direct your attention to http://cwbn.blogspot.com/ for
        insightful investigation into the matter, postings for 3/5, 3/10,
        3/12, 3/16. This is an intermittent thread which you will easily
        pick up, a welcome breath of candor.

        Also, if you seek honest definition of "South Mountain"
        battlefields, and the political chicanery at work behind the scenes,
        have a look at http://home.earthlink.net/~tjreesecg/id6.html. All is
        not as it appears.

        Having waded through all this, then see http://mlis.state.md.us/PDF-
        Documents/2000rs/bills/hb/hb1183t.pdf for the official language of
        what South Mountain "Fake" Battlefield is and is not. It's icing
        without a cake which children naturally prefer.

        While the kiddies play, the house burns. Santa can't get down this
        chimney.

        Tim

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@r...> wrote:
        > Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better.
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Rawlings, Kevin" <kevin.rawlings@s...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:21 PM
        > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
        >
        >
        > > Richard,
        > >
        > > The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The
        Garland
        > monumment
        > > is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now
        owns the
        > > Daniel Wise home site and the Appalachain Trail owns much of the
        right of
        > > way through there. Much of the land at Fox's Gap are is own by
        one group
        > or
        > > the other or development rights have been bought up by the
        state. At
        > > Turner's Gap as Tim Reese described the Frostown Road are is
        under
        > > developement attack but the Alt 40 up the gap is protected.
        > >
        > > Kevin Rawlings
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
      • Rawlings, Kevin
        Tim, No one is being dishonest if you are referring to me. There is some truth to what you say and I agree with you about the state, political and private
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 28 2:03 PM
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Tim,

          No one is being dishonest if you are referring to me. There is some truth to
          what you say and I agree with you about the state, political and private
          concerns of the South Mountain battlefields. His question about the Reno and
          Garland monuments being moved, as far as I know, there are no plans afoot to
          move either unless you know something I do not. Also, at this point in time
          I am not associated with any group except Save Historic Antietam Foundation.
          I left CMHL awhile back because of a plethora of back stabbing politics and
          lip service in the name of battlefield preservation in the board of
          directors' current make up. Further, I have not been terribly happy with
          what the state has been up to(or not up to as the case may be)in the last
          several years. I am not anyone's agent just as you are not. Just a concerned
          civil war historian as you are.

          Kevin Rawlings

          -----Original Message-----
          From: tjrhys62 [mailto:tjreesecg@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 3:59 PM
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain


          Richard,

          Your South Mountain question seems to have resurrected naïve
          assumptions about cooperative, incongruent battlefield ownership,
          its purported preservation, and the likelihood of achieving any
          symbiosis toward accessible park status. Complex questions require
          far more than simple answers, given the disparate groups involved
          possessed of wholly divergent if not incompatible objectives. Pay no
          attention to that man behind the curtain.

          Instead may I direct your attention to http://cwbn.blogspot.com/ for
          insightful investigation into the matter, postings for 3/5, 3/10,
          3/12, 3/16. This is an intermittent thread which you will easily
          pick up, a welcome breath of candor.

          Also, if you seek honest definition of "South Mountain"
          battlefields, and the political chicanery at work behind the scenes,
          have a look at http://home.earthlink.net/~tjreesecg/id6.html. All is
          not as it appears.

          Having waded through all this, then see http://mlis.state.md.us/PDF-
          Documents/2000rs/bills/hb/hb1183t.pdf for the official language of
          what South Mountain "Fake" Battlefield is and is not. It's icing
          without a cake which children naturally prefer.

          While the kiddies play, the house burns. Santa can't get down this
          chimney.

          Tim

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@r...> wrote:
          > Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better.
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Rawlings, Kevin" <kevin.rawlings@s...>
          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:21 PM
          > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
          >
          >
          > > Richard,
          > >
          > > The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The
          Garland
          > monumment
          > > is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now
          owns the
          > > Daniel Wise home site and the Appalachain Trail owns much of the
          right of
          > > way through there. Much of the land at Fox's Gap are is own by
          one group
          > or
          > > the other or development rights have been bought up by the
          state. At
          > > Turner's Gap as Tim Reese described the Frostown Road are is
          under
          > > developement attack but the Alt 40 up the gap is protected.
          > >
          > > Kevin Rawlings
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >



          ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy
          Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer
          at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
          http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
          http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/GmiolB/TM
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->



          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • tjrhys62
          Hi Kevin, No one is referring to you; nor is anyone questioning your motives. Let s be a little less sensitive. The dishonesty I invoke is inherent and
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 28 2:43 PM
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Kevin,

            No one is referring to you; nor is anyone questioning your motives.
            Let's be a little less sensitive. The dishonesty I invoke is
            inherent and deliberate to the entire mountain "preservation"
            process, infused into its every fiber from the get-go. When it all
            began back in the `80s only George Brigham and I gave a damn. George
            went off the deep end; I went back to the books where I remain. The
            next publishing installment appears in June.

            You and I both owe Richard a bit more candor. Of course the Reno and
            Garland monuments will stay put! The former has been there over a
            century; the latter is little more than a headstone sunk into CMHL
            land 250 yards from the site. How contrived. Richard of course knew
            they would remain, posing his question in saddened rhetoric. One can
            scarcely blame him, one who can appreciate D.H. Hill's dilemma.

            Those of us who have been on the "inside", who have experienced
            covert agendas, and who have been disgusted at the ensuing
            spectacle, owe it to every person interested in these sites to tell
            it like it was, is, and mostly likely will remain. The maxim is "qui
            tacet consentire": silence betokens consent.

            I don't like to admit it, but the grim truth is that the South
            Mountain battlefield (Turner's and Fox's) is a goner. Like those
            I've learned to detest, I could continue to pretend something
            meaningful is afoot. But it isn't. Only egos, careers, and bank
            accounts matter these days.

            You have my sincere sympathy for your past efforts, much good may
            they do you. But now isn't the time to let the bastards get away
            with it using our good will, tax dollars, and patience. It's time we
            all called a spade a spade in both historical and preservation
            contexts. Go through the URLs I sited to Richard; then tell me your
            blood doesn't boil.

            If we don't speak out, who will? Thanks for caring as always.

            Tim

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Rawlings, Kevin"
            <kevin.rawlings@s...> wrote:
            > Tim,
            >
            > No one is being dishonest if you are referring to me. There is
            some truth to
            > what you say and I agree with you about the state, political and
            private
            > concerns of the South Mountain battlefields. His question about
            the Reno and
            > Garland monuments being moved, as far as I know, there are no
            plans afoot to
            > move either unless you know something I do not. Also, at this
            point in time
            > I am not associated with any group except Save Historic Antietam
            Foundation.
            > I left CMHL awhile back because of a plethora of back stabbing
            politics and
            > lip service in the name of battlefield preservation in the board of
            > directors' current make up. Further, I have not been terribly
            happy with
            > what the state has been up to(or not up to as the case may be)in
            the last
            > several years. I am not anyone's agent just as you are not. Just a
            concerned
            > civil war historian as you are.
            >
            > Kevin Rawlings
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: tjrhys62 [mailto:tjreesecg@e...]
            > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 3:59 PM
            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
            >
            >
            > Richard,
            >
            > Your South Mountain question seems to have resurrected naïve
            > assumptions about cooperative, incongruent battlefield ownership,
            > its purported preservation, and the likelihood of achieving any
            > symbiosis toward accessible park status. Complex questions require
            > far more than simple answers, given the disparate groups involved
            > possessed of wholly divergent if not incompatible objectives. Pay
            no
            > attention to that man behind the curtain.
            >
            > Instead may I direct your attention to http://cwbn.blogspot.com/
            for
            > insightful investigation into the matter, postings for 3/5, 3/10,
            > 3/12, 3/16. This is an intermittent thread which you will easily
            > pick up, a welcome breath of candor.
            >
            > Also, if you seek honest definition of "South Mountain"
            > battlefields, and the political chicanery at work behind the
            scenes,
            > have a look at http://home.earthlink.net/~tjreesecg/id6.html. All
            is
            > not as it appears.
            >
            > Having waded through all this, then see
            http://mlis.state.md.us/PDF-
            > Documents/2000rs/bills/hb/hb1183t.pdf for the official language of
            > what South Mountain "Fake" Battlefield is and is not. It's icing
            > without a cake which children naturally prefer.
            >
            > While the kiddies play, the house burns. Santa can't get down this
            > chimney.
            >
            > Tim
            >
            > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@r...> wrote:
            > > Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better.
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Rawlings, Kevin" <kevin.rawlings@s...>
            > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:21 PM
            > > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
            > >
            > >
            > > > Richard,
            > > >
            > > > The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The
            > Garland
            > > monumment
            > > > is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now
            > owns the
            > > > Daniel Wise home site and the Appalachain Trail owns much of
            the
            > right of
            > > > way through there. Much of the land at Fox's Gap are is own by
            > one group
            > > or
            > > > the other or development rights have been bought up by the
            > state. At
            > > > Turner's Gap as Tim Reese described the Frostown Road are is
            > under
            > > > developement attack but the Alt 40 up the gap is protected.
            > > >
            > > > Kevin Rawlings
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
            -~--> Buy
            > Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
            Printer
            > at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
            > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
            > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/GmiolB/TM
            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
            --~->
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Ronald Church
            The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It s about a mile long and joins with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops back into and back
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 12 8:04 PM
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
              with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops back
              into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't driven the
              loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
              last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the most
              Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue down
              at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to attack up
              the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
              Ron Church
              Manchester MD


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain


              > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to a
              > good
              > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you of
              > the
              > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
              >
              >
              >
              > Harry
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
              > On
              > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
              > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
              >
              >
              >
              > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
              > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
              > for a modern road name. Thanks.
              >
              > Stephen
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Stephen Recker
              Thanks guys. I ll head out right now. Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 13 5:32 AM
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.

                Stephen

                On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:

                > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
                > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
                > back
                > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
                > driven the
                > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
                > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
                > most
                > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
                > down
                > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
                > attack up
                > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
                > Ron Church
                > Manchester MD
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
                > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                >
                > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
                > a
                > > good
                > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
                > of
                > > the
                > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Harry
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                > > On
                > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
                > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
                > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
                > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
                > >
                > > Stephen
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • rchurch@qis.net
                Meade s forces generally fanned out across the low area and drove up the ravine on your right. Hatch followed Dahlgren Road for several hundred yards beyond
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 13 6:14 AM
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  Meade's forces generally fanned out across the low area and drove up the ravine
                  on your right. Hatch followed Dahlgren Road for several hundred yards beyond
                  Frost Town Road then turned left off of the road and advanced up the hill
                  through heavy woods on the left. Wish I could be there with you.

                  Ron




                  Quoting Stephen Recker <recker@...>:

                  > Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.
                  >
                  > Stephen
                  >
                  > On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:
                  >
                  > > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
                  > > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
                  > > back
                  > > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
                  > > driven the
                  > > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
                  > > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
                  > > most
                  > > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
                  > > down
                  > > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
                  > > attack up
                  > > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
                  > > Ron Church
                  > > Manchester MD
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                  > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
                  > > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                  > >
                  > > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
                  > > a
                  > > > good
                  > > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
                  > > of
                  > > > the
                  > > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Harry
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                  > > > On
                  > > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                  > > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
                  > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
                  > > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
                  > > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
                  > > >
                  > > > Stephen
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Thomas Clemens
                  Stephen, You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road takes you
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 13 12:53 PM
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Stephen,
                    You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road takes you down the other side of the ravine where Meade attacked and is also a way to view the field.
                    And Harry, Bite me! :-)

                    Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    Professor of History
                    Hagerstown Community College


                    >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 04/13/07 8:32 AM >>>
                    Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.

                    Stephen

                    On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:

                    > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
                    > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
                    > back
                    > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
                    > driven the
                    > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
                    > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
                    > most
                    > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
                    > down
                    > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
                    > attack up
                    > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
                    > Ron Church
                    > Manchester MD
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                    > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
                    > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                    >
                    > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
                    > a
                    > > good
                    > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
                    > of
                    > > the
                    > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Harry
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                    > > On
                    > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                    > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
                    > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
                    > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
                    > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
                    > >
                    > > Stephen
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • jdpolaski@aol.com
                    I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal flags being used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they and what
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 13 2:03 PM
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal flags being
                      used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they and what
                      communications did they send out.



                      ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Adam Zimmerli
                      According to Edward Porter Alexander: I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the fight [for Turner s Gap] & some one discovered a
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 13 3:56 PM
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        According to Edward Porter Alexander:
                        "I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the
                        fight [for Turner's Gap] & some one discovered a small party of
                        people on what seemed to be an old tower on the mountain top [the
                        Washington Monument] about a mile north of the pass. There were some
                        indications that it might be a signal party of the enemy sending
                        messages of our approach, &, itching to have some personal role in
                        a fight, I suggested to Gen. Lee that I might take a few men & go
                        recapture it. He approved & had eight men sent with me from some
                        brigade, I forget whose. I got in cover of some woods & then struck
                        up the mountain side &, after a hard, hot climb, at last got up &
                        around the tower (which seemed to have been built originally for a
                        windmill) before the party on it knew of my approach. But they were
                        plainly all natives of the vicinity attracted by the firing and up
                        there to see the battle. I was quite disgusted at the peaceful
                        character of my capture & left them after seeing that the position
                        gave no valuable view of the enemy's ground & I pushed on to the
                        front & right, towards the firing." Pages 142-143, Fighting for the
                        Confederacy.

                        According to the footnotes of the book, the tower was actually
                        effectively in ruins by 1862. If EPA didn't think it gave a good
                        view of the federals, could the same be said of the confederate army
                        moving out of Boonsboro? I wonder, since it would be something one
                        would assume he would think about.

                        Anybody know where the 8 men came from?

                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, jdpolaski@... wrote:
                        >
                        > I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal
                        flags being
                        > used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they
                        and what
                        > communications did they send out.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ************************************** See what's free at
                        http://www.aol.com
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Stephen Recker
                        Tom, That is great. Thanks. Now I ll just stand back out of the way... Stephen
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 13 6:35 PM
                        View Source
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Tom,

                          That is great. Thanks.

                          Now I'll just stand back out of the way...<g>

                          Stephen




                          On Friday, April 13, 2007, at 03:53 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                          > Stephen,
                          > You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn
                          > right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road
                          > takes you down the other side of the ravine where Meade attacked and
                          > is also a way to view the field.
                          > And Harry, Bite me! :-)
                          >
                          > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                          > Professor of History
                          > Hagerstown Community College
                        • Thomas Clemens
                          It would have been more useful to the the Union thant the COnfederates, but EPA s account is the only real solid mention of it. It was uded i nthe Gettysburg
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 14 1:09 PM
                          View Source
                          • 0 Attachment
                            It would have been more useful to the the Union thant the COnfederates, but EPA's account is the only real solid mention of it. It was uded i nthe Gettysburg by Union signalman, including Wm. J. L. Nicodemus.


                            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                            Professor of History
                            Hagerstown Community College


                            >>> "Adam Zimmerli" <azimmerli@...> 04/13/07 6:56 PM >>>
                            According to Edward Porter Alexander:
                            "I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the
                            fight [for Turner's Gap] & some one discovered a small party of
                            people on what seemed to be an old tower on the mountain top [the
                            Washington Monument] about a mile north of the pass. There were some
                            indications that it might be a signal party of the enemy sending
                            messages of our approach, &, itching to have some personal role in
                            a fight, I suggested to Gen. Lee that I might take a few men & go
                            recapture it. He approved & had eight men sent with me from some
                            brigade, I forget whose. I got in cover of some woods & then struck
                            up the mountain side &, after a hard, hot climb, at last got up &
                            around the tower (which seemed to have been built originally for a
                            windmill) before the party on it knew of my approach. But they were
                            plainly all natives of the vicinity attracted by the firing and up
                            there to see the battle. I was quite disgusted at the peaceful
                            character of my capture & left them after seeing that the position
                            gave no valuable view of the enemy's ground & I pushed on to the
                            front & right, towards the firing." Pages 142-143, Fighting for the
                            Confederacy.

                            According to the footnotes of the book, the tower was actually
                            effectively in ruins by 1862. If EPA didn't think it gave a good
                            view of the federals, could the same be said of the confederate army
                            moving out of Boonsboro? I wonder, since it would be something one
                            would assume he would think about.

                            Anybody know where the 8 men came from?

                            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, jdpolaski@... wrote:
                            >
                            > I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal
                            flags being
                            > used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they
                            and what
                            > communications did they send out.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ************************************** See what's free at
                            http://www.aol.com
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Stephen Recker
                            Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of Maryland got into for joining Lee s army during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks. Stephen
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 19 6:00 PM
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of Maryland
                              got into for joining Lee's army during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks.

                              Stephen
                            • G E Mayers
                              Stephen, Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee s Army during the same
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 19 6:08 PM
                              View Source
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Stephen,

                                Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                                Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                                during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned home
                                to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for a
                                bit.

                                Scott Mingus Sr. might be able to give you the story if you contact
                                him at scottmingus@...

                                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                                passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                                God. --Anonymous
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:00 PM
                                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Treason?


                                > Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of
                                > Maryland
                                > got into for joining Lee's army during the Maryland Campaign?
                                > Thanks.
                                >
                                > Stephen
                                >
                                >
                              • Stephen Recker
                                Thanks. maybe it s in his new book. Stephen
                                Message 15 of 25 , Apr 19 6:40 PM
                                View Source
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thanks. maybe it's in his new book.

                                  Stephen

                                  On Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 09:08 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                                  > Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                                  > Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                                  > during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned home
                                  > to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for a
                                  > bit.
                                • G E Mayers
                                  Stephen, Yes, it is. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is an
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Apr 20 2:08 AM
                                  View Source
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Stephen,

                                    Yes, it is.

                                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                    one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                                    passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                                    God. --Anonymous
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:40 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Treason?


                                    > Thanks. maybe it's in his new book.
                                    >
                                    > Stephen
                                    >
                                    > On Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 09:08 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                                    >> Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                                    >> during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned
                                    >> home
                                    >> to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for
                                    >> a
                                    >> bit.
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • colliszouave@yahoo.com
                                    Besides John Hoptak s book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by Clemens, what others are must-haves re: South Mountain? Respectfully, Mike Peters
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Apr 17 3:55 PM
                                    View Source
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                      Respectfully,

                                      Mike Peters
                                      Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                                    • G E Mayers
                                      Mike; Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M Priest s book Before Antietam as a good guide for South Mountain fighting. Also,
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Apr 17 5:51 PM
                                      View Source
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Mike;

                                        Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                                        Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain fighting.
                                        Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                                        Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                        mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                        any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                        Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                        Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                                        To: Talk Antietam
                                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                        Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                        Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                        Respectfully,

                                        Mike Peters
                                        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Jim Rosebrock
                                        Mike You should also consider Tim Reese s book on the Battle of Crampton s Gap. It is titled Sealed With Their Lives. I don t know if you can get it new.
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Apr 17 6:23 PM
                                        View Source
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Mike
                                          You should also consider Tim Reese's book on the Battle of Crampton's Gap. It
                                          is titled Sealed With Their Lives. I don't know if you can get it new. Amazon
                                          has it here. It is out of print (I think) and a little expensive but worth your
                                          consideration.
                                          Regards
                                          Jim Rosebrock





                                          ________________________________
                                          From: "colliszouave@..." <colliszouave@...>
                                          To: Talk Antietam <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Sun, April 17, 2011 6:55:34 PM
                                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain


                                          Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                          Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                          Respectfully,

                                          Mike Peters
                                          Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • colliszouave@yahoo.com
                                          Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve! ... From: G E Mayers Sender: Talk Antietam To: Talk Antietam ReplyTo: Talk Antietam Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Apr 17 6:38 PM
                                          View Source
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve!
                                            ------Original Message------
                                            From: G E Mayers
                                            Sender: Talk Antietam
                                            To: Talk Antietam
                                            ReplyTo: Talk Antietam
                                            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                            Sent: Apr 17, 2011 8:51 PM

                                            Mike;

                                            Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                                            Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain fighting.
                                            Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                                            Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                            mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                            any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                            Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                            Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                                            To: Talk Antietam
                                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                            Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                            Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                            Respectfully,

                                            Mike Peters
                                            Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                            ------------------------------------


                                            Yahoo! Groups Links





                                            Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                                          • G E Mayers
                                            Mike; You might also find the late Joseph Harsh s book Taken at the Flood to have much useful information as well. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Apr 17 7:38 PM
                                            View Source
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Mike;

                                              You might also find the late Joseph Harsh's book "Taken at the Flood" to
                                              have much useful information as well.

                                              Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                              G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                              mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                              any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                              Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                              Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:39 PM
                                              To: Talk Antietam
                                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                              Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve!
                                              ------Original Message------
                                              From: G E Mayers
                                              Sender: Talk Antietam
                                              To: Talk Antietam
                                              ReplyTo: Talk Antietam
                                              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                              Sent: Apr 17, 2011 8:51 PM

                                              Mike;

                                              Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                                              Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain
                                              fighting.
                                              Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                                              Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                                              Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                              G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                              mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                              any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                              Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                              Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                                              To: Talk Antietam
                                              Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                              Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                              Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                              Respectfully,

                                              Mike Peters
                                              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                              ------------------------------------


                                              Yahoo! Groups Links





                                              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.