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RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain

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  • Rawlings, Kevin
    Richard, The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The Garland monumment is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now owns the
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 28, 2004
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      Richard,

      The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The Garland monumment
      is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now owns the
      Daniel Wise home site and the Appalachain Trail owns much of the right of
      way through there. Much of the land at Fox's Gap are is own by one group or
      the other or development rights have been bought up by the state. At
      Turner's Gap as Tim Reese described the Frostown Road are is under
      developement attack but the Alt 40 up the gap is protected.

      Kevin Rawlings
    • richard@rcroker.com
      Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better. ... From: Rawlings, Kevin To: Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 28, 2004
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        Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Rawlings, Kevin" <kevin.rawlings@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:21 PM
        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain


        > Richard,
        >
        > The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The Garland
        monumment
        > is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now owns the
        > Daniel Wise home site and the Appalachain Trail owns much of the right of
        > way through there. Much of the land at Fox's Gap are is own by one group
        or
        > the other or development rights have been bought up by the state. At
        > Turner's Gap as Tim Reese described the Frostown Road are is under
        > developement attack but the Alt 40 up the gap is protected.
        >
        > Kevin Rawlings
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • tjrhys62
        Richard, Your South Mountain question seems to have resurrected naïve assumptions about cooperative, incongruent battlefield ownership, its purported
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 28, 2004
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          Richard,

          Your South Mountain question seems to have resurrected naïve
          assumptions about cooperative, incongruent battlefield ownership,
          its purported preservation, and the likelihood of achieving any
          symbiosis toward accessible park status. Complex questions require
          far more than simple answers, given the disparate groups involved
          possessed of wholly divergent if not incompatible objectives. Pay no
          attention to that man behind the curtain.

          Instead may I direct your attention to http://cwbn.blogspot.com/ for
          insightful investigation into the matter, postings for 3/5, 3/10,
          3/12, 3/16. This is an intermittent thread which you will easily
          pick up, a welcome breath of candor.

          Also, if you seek honest definition of "South Mountain"
          battlefields, and the political chicanery at work behind the scenes,
          have a look at http://home.earthlink.net/~tjreesecg/id6.html. All is
          not as it appears.

          Having waded through all this, then see http://mlis.state.md.us/PDF-
          Documents/2000rs/bills/hb/hb1183t.pdf for the official language of
          what South Mountain "Fake" Battlefield is and is not. It's icing
          without a cake which children naturally prefer.

          While the kiddies play, the house burns. Santa can't get down this
          chimney.

          Tim

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@r...> wrote:
          > Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better.
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Rawlings, Kevin" <kevin.rawlings@s...>
          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:21 PM
          > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
          >
          >
          > > Richard,
          > >
          > > The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The
          Garland
          > monumment
          > > is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now
          owns the
          > > Daniel Wise home site and the Appalachain Trail owns much of the
          right of
          > > way through there. Much of the land at Fox's Gap are is own by
          one group
          > or
          > > the other or development rights have been bought up by the
          state. At
          > > Turner's Gap as Tim Reese described the Frostown Road are is
          under
          > > developement attack but the Alt 40 up the gap is protected.
          > >
          > > Kevin Rawlings
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
        • Rawlings, Kevin
          Tim, No one is being dishonest if you are referring to me. There is some truth to what you say and I agree with you about the state, political and private
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 28, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Tim,

            No one is being dishonest if you are referring to me. There is some truth to
            what you say and I agree with you about the state, political and private
            concerns of the South Mountain battlefields. His question about the Reno and
            Garland monuments being moved, as far as I know, there are no plans afoot to
            move either unless you know something I do not. Also, at this point in time
            I am not associated with any group except Save Historic Antietam Foundation.
            I left CMHL awhile back because of a plethora of back stabbing politics and
            lip service in the name of battlefield preservation in the board of
            directors' current make up. Further, I have not been terribly happy with
            what the state has been up to(or not up to as the case may be)in the last
            several years. I am not anyone's agent just as you are not. Just a concerned
            civil war historian as you are.

            Kevin Rawlings

            -----Original Message-----
            From: tjrhys62 [mailto:tjreesecg@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 3:59 PM
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain


            Richard,

            Your South Mountain question seems to have resurrected naïve
            assumptions about cooperative, incongruent battlefield ownership,
            its purported preservation, and the likelihood of achieving any
            symbiosis toward accessible park status. Complex questions require
            far more than simple answers, given the disparate groups involved
            possessed of wholly divergent if not incompatible objectives. Pay no
            attention to that man behind the curtain.

            Instead may I direct your attention to http://cwbn.blogspot.com/ for
            insightful investigation into the matter, postings for 3/5, 3/10,
            3/12, 3/16. This is an intermittent thread which you will easily
            pick up, a welcome breath of candor.

            Also, if you seek honest definition of "South Mountain"
            battlefields, and the political chicanery at work behind the scenes,
            have a look at http://home.earthlink.net/~tjreesecg/id6.html. All is
            not as it appears.

            Having waded through all this, then see http://mlis.state.md.us/PDF-
            Documents/2000rs/bills/hb/hb1183t.pdf for the official language of
            what South Mountain "Fake" Battlefield is and is not. It's icing
            without a cake which children naturally prefer.

            While the kiddies play, the house burns. Santa can't get down this
            chimney.

            Tim

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@r...> wrote:
            > Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better.
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Rawlings, Kevin" <kevin.rawlings@s...>
            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:21 PM
            > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
            >
            >
            > > Richard,
            > >
            > > The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The
            Garland
            > monumment
            > > is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now
            owns the
            > > Daniel Wise home site and the Appalachain Trail owns much of the
            right of
            > > way through there. Much of the land at Fox's Gap are is own by
            one group
            > or
            > > the other or development rights have been bought up by the
            state. At
            > > Turner's Gap as Tim Reese described the Frostown Road are is
            under
            > > developement attack but the Alt 40 up the gap is protected.
            > >
            > > Kevin Rawlings
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >



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          • tjrhys62
            Hi Kevin, No one is referring to you; nor is anyone questioning your motives. Let s be a little less sensitive. The dishonesty I invoke is inherent and
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 28, 2004
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              Hi Kevin,

              No one is referring to you; nor is anyone questioning your motives.
              Let's be a little less sensitive. The dishonesty I invoke is
              inherent and deliberate to the entire mountain "preservation"
              process, infused into its every fiber from the get-go. When it all
              began back in the `80s only George Brigham and I gave a damn. George
              went off the deep end; I went back to the books where I remain. The
              next publishing installment appears in June.

              You and I both owe Richard a bit more candor. Of course the Reno and
              Garland monuments will stay put! The former has been there over a
              century; the latter is little more than a headstone sunk into CMHL
              land 250 yards from the site. How contrived. Richard of course knew
              they would remain, posing his question in saddened rhetoric. One can
              scarcely blame him, one who can appreciate D.H. Hill's dilemma.

              Those of us who have been on the "inside", who have experienced
              covert agendas, and who have been disgusted at the ensuing
              spectacle, owe it to every person interested in these sites to tell
              it like it was, is, and mostly likely will remain. The maxim is "qui
              tacet consentire": silence betokens consent.

              I don't like to admit it, but the grim truth is that the South
              Mountain battlefield (Turner's and Fox's) is a goner. Like those
              I've learned to detest, I could continue to pretend something
              meaningful is afoot. But it isn't. Only egos, careers, and bank
              accounts matter these days.

              You have my sincere sympathy for your past efforts, much good may
              they do you. But now isn't the time to let the bastards get away
              with it using our good will, tax dollars, and patience. It's time we
              all called a spade a spade in both historical and preservation
              contexts. Go through the URLs I sited to Richard; then tell me your
              blood doesn't boil.

              If we don't speak out, who will? Thanks for caring as always.

              Tim

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Rawlings, Kevin"
              <kevin.rawlings@s...> wrote:
              > Tim,
              >
              > No one is being dishonest if you are referring to me. There is
              some truth to
              > what you say and I agree with you about the state, political and
              private
              > concerns of the South Mountain battlefields. His question about
              the Reno and
              > Garland monuments being moved, as far as I know, there are no
              plans afoot to
              > move either unless you know something I do not. Also, at this
              point in time
              > I am not associated with any group except Save Historic Antietam
              Foundation.
              > I left CMHL awhile back because of a plethora of back stabbing
              politics and
              > lip service in the name of battlefield preservation in the board of
              > directors' current make up. Further, I have not been terribly
              happy with
              > what the state has been up to(or not up to as the case may be)in
              the last
              > several years. I am not anyone's agent just as you are not. Just a
              concerned
              > civil war historian as you are.
              >
              > Kevin Rawlings
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: tjrhys62 [mailto:tjreesecg@e...]
              > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 3:59 PM
              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
              >
              >
              > Richard,
              >
              > Your South Mountain question seems to have resurrected naïve
              > assumptions about cooperative, incongruent battlefield ownership,
              > its purported preservation, and the likelihood of achieving any
              > symbiosis toward accessible park status. Complex questions require
              > far more than simple answers, given the disparate groups involved
              > possessed of wholly divergent if not incompatible objectives. Pay
              no
              > attention to that man behind the curtain.
              >
              > Instead may I direct your attention to http://cwbn.blogspot.com/
              for
              > insightful investigation into the matter, postings for 3/5, 3/10,
              > 3/12, 3/16. This is an intermittent thread which you will easily
              > pick up, a welcome breath of candor.
              >
              > Also, if you seek honest definition of "South Mountain"
              > battlefields, and the political chicanery at work behind the
              scenes,
              > have a look at http://home.earthlink.net/~tjreesecg/id6.html. All
              is
              > not as it appears.
              >
              > Having waded through all this, then see
              http://mlis.state.md.us/PDF-
              > Documents/2000rs/bills/hb/hb1183t.pdf for the official language of
              > what South Mountain "Fake" Battlefield is and is not. It's icing
              > without a cake which children naturally prefer.
              >
              > While the kiddies play, the house burns. Santa can't get down this
              > chimney.
              >
              > Tim
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@r...> wrote:
              > > Thanks Kevin -- I feel a littel better.
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "Rawlings, Kevin" <kevin.rawlings@s...>
              > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:21 PM
              > > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mountain
              > >
              > >
              > > > Richard,
              > > >
              > > > The Reno and Garland monuments art not going anywhere. The
              > Garland
              > > monumment
              > > > is on Central Maryland Heritage League land and the state now
              > owns the
              > > > Daniel Wise home site and the Appalachain Trail owns much of
              the
              > right of
              > > > way through there. Much of the land at Fox's Gap are is own by
              > one group
              > > or
              > > > the other or development rights have been bought up by the
              > state. At
              > > > Turner's Gap as Tim Reese described the Frostown Road are is
              > under
              > > > developement attack but the Alt 40 up the gap is protected.
              > > >
              > > > Kevin Rawlings
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
              -~--> Buy
              > Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
              Printer
              > at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
              > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/GmiolB/TM
              > -------------------------------------------------------------------
              --~->
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Ronald Church
              The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It s about a mile long and joins with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops back into and back
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 12, 2007
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                The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
                with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops back
                into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't driven the
                loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
                last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the most
                Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue down
                at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to attack up
                the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
                Ron Church
                Manchester MD


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain


                > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to a
                > good
                > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you of
                > the
                > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
                >
                >
                >
                > Harry
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                > On
                > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                >
                >
                >
                > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
                > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
                > for a modern road name. Thanks.
                >
                > Stephen
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Stephen Recker
                Thanks guys. I ll head out right now. Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 13, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.

                  Stephen

                  On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:

                  > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
                  > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
                  > back
                  > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
                  > driven the
                  > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
                  > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
                  > most
                  > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
                  > down
                  > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
                  > attack up
                  > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
                  > Ron Church
                  > Manchester MD
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                  > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                  >
                  > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
                  > a
                  > > good
                  > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
                  > of
                  > > the
                  > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Harry
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                  > > On
                  > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                  > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
                  > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
                  > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
                  > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
                  > >
                  > > Stephen
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • rchurch@qis.net
                  Meade s forces generally fanned out across the low area and drove up the ravine on your right. Hatch followed Dahlgren Road for several hundred yards beyond
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 13, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Meade's forces generally fanned out across the low area and drove up the ravine
                    on your right. Hatch followed Dahlgren Road for several hundred yards beyond
                    Frost Town Road then turned left off of the road and advanced up the hill
                    through heavy woods on the left. Wish I could be there with you.

                    Ron




                    Quoting Stephen Recker <recker@...>:

                    > Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.
                    >
                    > Stephen
                    >
                    > On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:
                    >
                    > > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
                    > > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
                    > > back
                    > > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
                    > > driven the
                    > > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
                    > > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
                    > > most
                    > > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
                    > > down
                    > > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
                    > > attack up
                    > > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
                    > > Ron Church
                    > > Manchester MD
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                    > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
                    > > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                    > >
                    > > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
                    > > a
                    > > > good
                    > > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
                    > > of
                    > > > the
                    > > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Harry
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                    > > > On
                    > > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                    > > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
                    > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
                    > > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
                    > > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
                    > > >
                    > > > Stephen
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Thomas Clemens
                    Stephen, You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road takes you
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 13, 2007
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                      Stephen,
                      You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road takes you down the other side of the ravine where Meade attacked and is also a way to view the field.
                      And Harry, Bite me! :-)

                      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      Professor of History
                      Hagerstown Community College


                      >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 04/13/07 8:32 AM >>>
                      Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.

                      Stephen

                      On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:

                      > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
                      > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
                      > back
                      > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
                      > driven the
                      > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
                      > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
                      > most
                      > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
                      > down
                      > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
                      > attack up
                      > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
                      > Ron Church
                      > Manchester MD
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
                      > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                      >
                      > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
                      > a
                      > > good
                      > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
                      > of
                      > > the
                      > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Harry
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                      > > On
                      > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                      > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
                      > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
                      > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
                      > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
                      > >
                      > > Stephen
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                    • jdpolaski@aol.com
                      I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal flags being used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they and what
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 13, 2007
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                        I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal flags being
                        used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they and what
                        communications did they send out.



                        ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Adam Zimmerli
                        According to Edward Porter Alexander: I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the fight [for Turner s Gap] & some one discovered a
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 13, 2007
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                          According to Edward Porter Alexander:
                          "I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the
                          fight [for Turner's Gap] & some one discovered a small party of
                          people on what seemed to be an old tower on the mountain top [the
                          Washington Monument] about a mile north of the pass. There were some
                          indications that it might be a signal party of the enemy sending
                          messages of our approach, &, itching to have some personal role in
                          a fight, I suggested to Gen. Lee that I might take a few men & go
                          recapture it. He approved & had eight men sent with me from some
                          brigade, I forget whose. I got in cover of some woods & then struck
                          up the mountain side &, after a hard, hot climb, at last got up &
                          around the tower (which seemed to have been built originally for a
                          windmill) before the party on it knew of my approach. But they were
                          plainly all natives of the vicinity attracted by the firing and up
                          there to see the battle. I was quite disgusted at the peaceful
                          character of my capture & left them after seeing that the position
                          gave no valuable view of the enemy's ground & I pushed on to the
                          front & right, towards the firing." Pages 142-143, Fighting for the
                          Confederacy.

                          According to the footnotes of the book, the tower was actually
                          effectively in ruins by 1862. If EPA didn't think it gave a good
                          view of the federals, could the same be said of the confederate army
                          moving out of Boonsboro? I wonder, since it would be something one
                          would assume he would think about.

                          Anybody know where the 8 men came from?

                          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, jdpolaski@... wrote:
                          >
                          > I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal
                          flags being
                          > used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they
                          and what
                          > communications did they send out.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ************************************** See what's free at
                          http://www.aol.com
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Stephen Recker
                          Tom, That is great. Thanks. Now I ll just stand back out of the way... Stephen
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 13, 2007
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                            Tom,

                            That is great. Thanks.

                            Now I'll just stand back out of the way...<g>

                            Stephen




                            On Friday, April 13, 2007, at 03:53 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                            > Stephen,
                            > You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn
                            > right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road
                            > takes you down the other side of the ravine where Meade attacked and
                            > is also a way to view the field.
                            > And Harry, Bite me! :-)
                            >
                            > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                            > Professor of History
                            > Hagerstown Community College
                          • Thomas Clemens
                            It would have been more useful to the the Union thant the COnfederates, but EPA s account is the only real solid mention of it. It was uded i nthe Gettysburg
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 14, 2007
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                              It would have been more useful to the the Union thant the COnfederates, but EPA's account is the only real solid mention of it. It was uded i nthe Gettysburg by Union signalman, including Wm. J. L. Nicodemus.


                              Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                              Professor of History
                              Hagerstown Community College


                              >>> "Adam Zimmerli" <azimmerli@...> 04/13/07 6:56 PM >>>
                              According to Edward Porter Alexander:
                              "I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the
                              fight [for Turner's Gap] & some one discovered a small party of
                              people on what seemed to be an old tower on the mountain top [the
                              Washington Monument] about a mile north of the pass. There were some
                              indications that it might be a signal party of the enemy sending
                              messages of our approach, &, itching to have some personal role in
                              a fight, I suggested to Gen. Lee that I might take a few men & go
                              recapture it. He approved & had eight men sent with me from some
                              brigade, I forget whose. I got in cover of some woods & then struck
                              up the mountain side &, after a hard, hot climb, at last got up &
                              around the tower (which seemed to have been built originally for a
                              windmill) before the party on it knew of my approach. But they were
                              plainly all natives of the vicinity attracted by the firing and up
                              there to see the battle. I was quite disgusted at the peaceful
                              character of my capture & left them after seeing that the position
                              gave no valuable view of the enemy's ground & I pushed on to the
                              front & right, towards the firing." Pages 142-143, Fighting for the
                              Confederacy.

                              According to the footnotes of the book, the tower was actually
                              effectively in ruins by 1862. If EPA didn't think it gave a good
                              view of the federals, could the same be said of the confederate army
                              moving out of Boonsboro? I wonder, since it would be something one
                              would assume he would think about.

                              Anybody know where the 8 men came from?

                              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, jdpolaski@... wrote:
                              >
                              > I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal
                              flags being
                              > used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they
                              and what
                              > communications did they send out.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ************************************** See what's free at
                              http://www.aol.com
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Stephen Recker
                              Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of Maryland got into for joining Lee s army during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks. Stephen
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 19, 2007
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                                Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of Maryland
                                got into for joining Lee's army during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks.

                                Stephen
                              • G E Mayers
                                Stephen, Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee s Army during the same
                                Message 15 of 25 , Apr 19, 2007
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                                  Stephen,

                                  Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                                  Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                                  during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned home
                                  to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for a
                                  bit.

                                  Scott Mingus Sr. might be able to give you the story if you contact
                                  him at scottmingus@...

                                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                  one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                                  passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                                  God. --Anonymous
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:00 PM
                                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Treason?


                                  > Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of
                                  > Maryland
                                  > got into for joining Lee's army during the Maryland Campaign?
                                  > Thanks.
                                  >
                                  > Stephen
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Stephen Recker
                                  Thanks. maybe it s in his new book. Stephen
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Apr 19, 2007
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                                    Thanks. maybe it's in his new book.

                                    Stephen

                                    On Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 09:08 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                                    > Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                                    > Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                                    > during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned home
                                    > to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for a
                                    > bit.
                                  • G E Mayers
                                    Stephen, Yes, it is. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is an
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Apr 20, 2007
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                                      Stephen,

                                      Yes, it is.

                                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                      one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                                      passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                                      God. --Anonymous
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:40 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Treason?


                                      > Thanks. maybe it's in his new book.
                                      >
                                      > Stephen
                                      >
                                      > On Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 09:08 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                      >
                                      >> Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                                      >> Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                                      >> during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned
                                      >> home
                                      >> to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for
                                      >> a
                                      >> bit.
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • colliszouave@yahoo.com
                                      Besides John Hoptak s book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by Clemens, what others are must-haves re: South Mountain? Respectfully, Mike Peters
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Apr 17, 2011
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                                        Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                        Respectfully,

                                        Mike Peters
                                        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                                      • G E Mayers
                                        Mike; Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M Priest s book Before Antietam as a good guide for South Mountain fighting. Also,
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Apr 17, 2011
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                                          Mike;

                                          Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                                          Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain fighting.
                                          Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                                          Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                          mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                          any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                          Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                          Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                                          To: Talk Antietam
                                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                          Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                          Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                          Respectfully,

                                          Mike Peters
                                          Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Jim Rosebrock
                                          Mike You should also consider Tim Reese s book on the Battle of Crampton s Gap. It is titled Sealed With Their Lives. I don t know if you can get it new.
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Apr 17, 2011
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                                            Mike
                                            You should also consider Tim Reese's book on the Battle of Crampton's Gap. It
                                            is titled Sealed With Their Lives. I don't know if you can get it new. Amazon
                                            has it here. It is out of print (I think) and a little expensive but worth your
                                            consideration.
                                            Regards
                                            Jim Rosebrock





                                            ________________________________
                                            From: "colliszouave@..." <colliszouave@...>
                                            To: Talk Antietam <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Sun, April 17, 2011 6:55:34 PM
                                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain


                                            Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                            Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                            Respectfully,

                                            Mike Peters
                                            Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • colliszouave@yahoo.com
                                            Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve! ... From: G E Mayers Sender: Talk Antietam To: Talk Antietam ReplyTo: Talk Antietam Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Apr 17, 2011
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                                              Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve!
                                              ------Original Message------
                                              From: G E Mayers
                                              Sender: Talk Antietam
                                              To: Talk Antietam
                                              ReplyTo: Talk Antietam
                                              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                              Sent: Apr 17, 2011 8:51 PM

                                              Mike;

                                              Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                                              Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain fighting.
                                              Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                                              Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                                              Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                              G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                              mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                              any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                              Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                              Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                                              To: Talk Antietam
                                              Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                              Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                              Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                              Respectfully,

                                              Mike Peters
                                              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                              ------------------------------------


                                              Yahoo! Groups Links





                                              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                                            • G E Mayers
                                              Mike; You might also find the late Joseph Harsh s book Taken at the Flood to have much useful information as well. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Apr 17, 2011
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                                                Mike;

                                                You might also find the late Joseph Harsh's book "Taken at the Flood" to
                                                have much useful information as well.

                                                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                                mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                                any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                                Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                                Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:39 PM
                                                To: Talk Antietam
                                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                                Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve!
                                                ------Original Message------
                                                From: G E Mayers
                                                Sender: Talk Antietam
                                                To: Talk Antietam
                                                ReplyTo: Talk Antietam
                                                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                                Sent: Apr 17, 2011 8:51 PM

                                                Mike;

                                                Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                                                Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain
                                                fighting.
                                                Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                                                Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                                                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                                mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                                any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                                Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                                Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                                                To: Talk Antietam
                                                Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                                Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                                Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                                Respectfully,

                                                Mike Peters
                                                Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                                Yahoo! Groups Links





                                                Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




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