Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [TalkAntietam] Antietam on the Web waking up ...

Expand Messages
  • TR Livesey
    Brian, Are you using any of the Mr.Sid accessory tools in viewing the LOC maps? If you have photoshop, you can download (free) a MrSid plugin, which allows you
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 7, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Brian,

      Are you using any of the Mr.Sid accessory tools in viewing the LOC maps?
      If you have photoshop, you can download (free) a MrSid plugin, which allows
      you to download the whole map (all 14 of 'em), and then interactively
      zoom and pan all you like off-line. Very nice set of tools.

      I have had an on-again/off-again project for taking the Carman-Cope maps
      and bringing up to date with some new technology. Let me know if you
      want to 'talk shop'.

      Regards,
      TR Livesey
      tlivesey@...
      http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam

      PS - nice new look on the aotw site; I don't think I've taken a look at it for
      awhile.

      Brian Downey wrote:
      >
      > On a related note, I have been delighting in the Carman-Cope maps of
      > the Battlefield at Antietam - the Atlas. The Library of Congress has
      > put them online, along with some pretty sophisticated viewing
      > software. The maps are very large (digitally speaking), but just
      > magnificently reproduced. I recommend a vist, if you haven't already
      > seen them, to:
      > http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/gmd:@field(NUMBER+@band(g3842am+gcw0247000))
      >
      > Because of the large scale of the maps, and the fine-grain detail,
      > they're impossible to see all at once on one computer screen, at least
      > at a legible magnification. So, I'm beginning work on versions of
      > these maps optimized for the Web using these LoC digital images with
      > symbols overlayed, and eventually interactively linked to more
      > information about units, individuals, etc. At my present rate,
      > though, this might take months or even years. For other computer geeks
      > out there, I'm learning a bit about Flash, which looks promising for
      > this project.
      >
      > Which brings me to some shameless promotion - I've had a website about
      > the battle going for some years, called Antietam on the Web (AotW),
      > but it's never been as complete or thorough or interesting or useful
      > as I'd like. I've recently found a new home/server, and done some
      > database and web programming to better present information I do have
      > assembled. I invite you to come take a look at http://aotw.org
      >
      > And ... if anyone has the time and inclination, I'm looking for help
      > in continuing to build and refine the AotW website in a number of ways
      > - actually hoping to build a communitiy of fellow enthusiasts who have
      > things to say about the Battle. I'll never be able to do it justice
      > alone. I've built some simple web tools members can use to contribute
      > directly on the site, online.
      >
      > AotW is an outlet and focus for my passion for the History, and is
      > strictly non-commercial. No fees, no advertising, no marketing, no
      > hidden agendae. I hope this doesn't look like spam!
      >
      > Anyway, it's good to be back, and I look forward to hearing from you
      > all. Thanks!
      >
      > Brian
      > bdowney@...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • Brian Downey
      Hi Todd, Yes, I m using the LoC provided MrSid viewer at home, but not the photoshop plugin. I m a macromedia shop just now :) My approach to optimizing
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 8, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Todd,

        Yes, I'm using the LoC provided MrSid viewer at home, but not the
        photoshop plugin. I'm a macromedia shop just now :)

        My approach to "optimizing" these for display on the Web is pretty low
        tech, really. My plan is to create a base map - a bitmap graphic - on
        the order of 500px square, for each of 3 or 4 major sections of the
        battlefield, and overlay vector-graphic symbols for the military units
        and other items of interest. [My first attempt at such a base map, in
        this case of the entire field and with text overlayed, is at
        http://aotw.org/overview.php%5d In Flash I can use these symbols as
        hyperlinks to narratives, unit and leader information, and other
        data-based material. I can also 'animate' the symbols from one time
        frame to the next to better show operations over the course of the
        day. Because most of the presentation uses small vector-mapped objects
        or is coming from the database on-demand, I ought to be able to keep
        the client-side "thin" and load times small. That's the plan, anyway.

        A couple of years ago I would not have seriously considered Flash - I
        was something of an HTML purist - but it looks like most web users
        have the Flash plugin now, and can readily use that kind of display.
        I'm a raw amateur in Flash to this point, however, so this might take
        a while!

        Thanks for asking, tho the rest of the group are probably bored to
        tears ... at the risk of making it worse, what's involved in your
        project? [Perhaps a moderator should step in and recommend we take
        this to email]

        Brian
        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, TR Livesey <tlivesey@w...> wrote:
        > Brian,
        >
        > Are you using any of the Mr.Sid accessory tools in viewing the LOC maps?
        > If you have photoshop, you can download (free) a MrSid plugin, which
        allows
        > you to download the whole map (all 14 of 'em), and then interactively
        > zoom and pan all you like off-line. Very nice set of tools.
        >
        > I have had an on-again/off-again project for taking the Carman-Cope maps
        > and bringing up to date with some new technology. Let me know if you
        > want to 'talk shop'.
        >
        > Regards,
        > TR Livesey
        > tlivesey@w...
        > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam
        >
      • TR Livesey
        Brian, Very interesting. I m actually working at a level higher--ideas that could be displayable on a web page, or could be a downloadable application, etc.,
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 10, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Brian,

          Very interesting.

          I'm actually working at a level higher--ideas that could be displayable
          on a web page, or could be a downloadable application, etc., but
          not specifically targeted for any particular medium. I am increasingly
          looking toward GPS (global positioning systems) applications. For example,
          you could download a map of the battlefield (showing troop positions
          at a certain time) onto your GPS unit, and then 'navigate' yourself
          around points of interest that would not otherwise be visible on
          the modern battlefield.

          What I am doing with the Cope maps is to capture the troop positions
          in terms of geographical coordinates (e.g. latitude & longitude, but
          I'm actually using a different coordinate system that has much finer
          resolution). Once such a database is built up, all kinds of things
          are possible. As is, the Cope maps are arranged chronologically:
          snapshots of troop positions taken at 14 points in time. It might
          be interesting to instead generate a map that shows the various positions
          of a certain unit (or set of units) across the entire day.

          I don't like using the Cope maps themselves as a base map, for
          a variety of reasons. I like to work in layers. There should
          be a layer that contains just the boundaries of the fields &
          features; there should be a layer containing the elevation (contour
          lines or whatever); there should be a layer that contains troop
          positions; a layer of labels and text, etc. For a given need,
          you produce the layers you are interested in. The Cope maps are
          a finished map, so all the layers flattened down, and the results
          can be quite cluttered; you can't get rid of the things you
          don't want to see. For example, it is usually desirable to
          show contour lines at an increment (e.g. every 20 feet, or every
          10 feet, etc.) appropriate for the scale of the map. If the
          increment is too small the lines overlap and overwhelm or obliterate
          the rest of the map. Since the contour lines are actually on
          the Cope map, it is not possible to substitute contours of a different
          increment.

          The other problem with the Cope maps is that they suffer from
          horizontal distortions. If you produced a modern map to the
          same scale and overlaid it and 1 of the Cope maps, you could
          get features close together to line up, but not ones far
          apart (you'd never be able to line up the Smoketown Road
          and Miller's Sawmill road). For an illustration, see
          http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/antietam/maps/background.html.
          This kind of detail may seem irrelevant for a web page. For
          other applications, however, it is critical. For example, people
          are increasingly starting to employ GPS
          technology to their field work. It would be desirable to be able
          to download these maps to a GPS unit. Because of the Cope
          maps horizontal distortions, it would not be suitable to download
          them to a GPS unit.

          This is not to say I don't like the Cope maps. Actually,
          I have a real set of my own. Not a repro, but an actual
          1904 volume. The thing is huge! You have not experienced
          these beautiful maps until you have browsed through a full
          sized copy.

          I have had for several years a nice, horizontally accurate
          database containing the base Antietam map (field boundaries
          and features as per 1862) and a nice digital 5 foot increment
          contour map. Once I have info on the troop positions, I'll
          be 1 step closer to something interesting.

          I have no experience with Flash. I am leaning more toward Java.
          If you are going to assume that people have the Flash plugin,
          I'd just as well assume they have the Java plugin, which
          is much more useful. If the browser was too confining, I'd
          just move to a download able Java application.

          At first glance, it does seem like we have wildly different
          approaches. Nonetheless, there ought to be a way to find some
          synergy.

          Regards,
          TR Livesey
          tlivesey@...

          Brian Downey wrote:
          >
          > Hi Todd,
          >
          > Yes, I'm using the LoC provided MrSid viewer at home, but not the
          > photoshop plugin. I'm a macromedia shop just now :)
          >
          > My approach to "optimizing" these for display on the Web is pretty low
          > tech, really. My plan is to create a base map - a bitmap graphic - on
          > the order of 500px square, for each of 3 or 4 major sections of the
          > battlefield, and overlay vector-graphic symbols for the military units
          > and other items of interest. [My first attempt at such a base map, in
          > this case of the entire field and with text overlayed, is at
          > http://aotw.org/overview.php%5d In Flash I can use these symbols as
          > hyperlinks to narratives, unit and leader information, and other
          > data-based material. I can also 'animate' the symbols from one time
          > frame to the next to better show operations over the course of the
          > day. Because most of the presentation uses small vector-mapped objects
          > or is coming from the database on-demand, I ought to be able to keep
          > the client-side "thin" and load times small. That's the plan, anyway.
          >
          > A couple of years ago I would not have seriously considered Flash - I
          > was something of an HTML purist - but it looks like most web users
          > have the Flash plugin now, and can readily use that kind of display.
          > I'm a raw amateur in Flash to this point, however, so this might take
          > a while!
          >
          > Thanks for asking, tho the rest of the group are probably bored to
          > tears ... at the risk of making it worse, what's involved in your
          > project? [Perhaps a moderator should step in and recommend we take
          > this to email]
          >
          > Brian
          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, TR Livesey <tlivesey@w...> wrote:
          > > Brian,
          > >
          > > Are you using any of the Mr.Sid accessory tools in viewing the LOC maps?
          > > If you have photoshop, you can download (free) a MrSid plugin, which
          > allows
          > > you to download the whole map (all 14 of 'em), and then interactively
          > > zoom and pan all you like off-line. Very nice set of tools.
          > >
          > > I have had an on-again/off-again project for taking the Carman-Cope maps
          > > and bringing up to date with some new technology. Let me know if you
          > > want to 'talk shop'.
          > >
          > > Regards,
          > > TR Livesey
          > > tlivesey@w...
          > > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Brian Downey
          Dang, Todd - Your project indeed sounds like it has excellent potential for use on the ground. ... displayable ... And yes, I think there might be some
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 12, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Dang, Todd -

            Your project indeed sounds like it has excellent potential for use on
            the ground.

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, TR Livesey <tlivesey@w...> wrote:
            > Brian,
            >
            > Very interesting.
            >
            > I'm actually working at a level higher--ideas that could be
            displayable ... <snip>

            And yes, I think there might be some common threads between our
            approaches. I'd say our fundamental differences in approach are the
            result of our end-goals, but the two techniques might have some
            shareable elements.

            I'll get back to you by email, if that's ok, rather than bore the rest
            of the group with this topic.

            > This is not to say I don't like the Cope maps. Actually,
            > I have a real set of my own. Not a repro, but an actual
            > 1904 volume. The thing is huge! You have not experienced
            > these beautiful maps until you have browsed through a full
            > sized copy.
            >

            This is fantastic! I'd love to have a copy, but haven't seen one for
            sale yet. How did you come upon yours, if I may ask?

            <more stuff snipped>
            >
            > Regards,
            > TR Livesey
            > tlivesey@w...

            Brian
            email name: bdowney
            at
            domain: aotw.org
          • TR Livesey
            ... Where else? All together class...EBAY!
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 12, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Brian Downey wrote:

              > > This is not to say I don't like the Cope maps. Actually,
              > > I have a real set of my own. Not a repro, but an actual
              > > 1904 volume. The thing is huge! You have not experienced
              > > these beautiful maps until you have browsed through a full
              > > sized copy.
              > >
              >
              > This is fantastic! I'd love to have a copy, but haven't seen one for
              > sale yet. How did you come upon yours, if I may ask?
              >

              Where else? All together class...EBAY!
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.