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Re: [TalkAntietam] Antietam on the Web waking up ...

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  • NJ Rebel
    Dear Brian, Welcome back! I will try to review the Cope Carman maps from your link sometime soon. Tom Clemens is the best person to ask about public
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 7 7:55 PM
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      Dear Brian,

      Welcome back!

      I will try to review the Cope Carman maps from your link
      sometime soon. Tom Clemens is the best person to ask about
      public publication of the Carman manuscripts.... From what I
      recall, it is a daunting task to annotate all the chapters
      of the Carman manuscript and Dr. Clemens received his
      advanced degree only on the annotation of about a third or
      less of the total number of chapters Carman produced.

      Again, welcome back!

      Very respectfully,
      Your humble and obdt. Servant,
      G. E. (Gerry) Mayers,
      Private,
      Confederate Signal Corps,
      Longstreet's Corps

      A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

      "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the
      field on which he has nobly laid down his
      ." --General Robert Edward Lee

      Explore some little known facts of the War of the Rebellion!
      The current feature may be found at
      http://www.us-civilwar.com/picketline.html
      To see earlier articles, kindly go to:
      http://www.us-civilwar.com/njrebel


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Brian Downey" <brdowney@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:33 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Antietam on the Web waking up ...


      > Greetings fellow listers. It sure is quiet :)
      >
      > I have a couple of items, if you're interested. I've been
      in a kind of
      > hibernation, consumed by my day job for a couple of years,
      but I've
      > got some of my life back for the moment ... so I'll just
      jump on in.
      >
      > First, I'd really like to read Dr Clemens' edited Carman
      > manuscript(s), if available. I just don't know where to
      obtain it.
      > Is this work 'published' in the public sense? I'd be most
      tickled to
      > buy a copy, if possible. Anybody know? I live relatively
      close to
      > GMU, if a visit there would be effective.
      >
      > On a related note, I have been delighting in the
      Carman-Cope maps of
      > the Battlefield at Antietam - the Atlas. The Library of
      Congress has
      > put them online, along with some pretty sophisticated
      viewing
      > software. The maps are very large (digitally speaking),
      but just
      > magnificently reproduced. I recommend a vist, if you
      haven't already
      > seen them, to:
      >
      http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/gmd:@field(NUMBE
      R+@band(g3842am+gcw0247000))
      >
      > Because of the large scale of the maps, and the fine-grain
      detail,
      > they're impossible to see all at once on one computer
      screen, at least
      > at a legible magnification. So, I'm beginning work on
      versions of
      > these maps optimized for the Web using these LoC digital
      images with
      > symbols overlayed, and eventually interactively linked to
      more
      > information about units, individuals, etc. At my present
      rate,
      > though, this might take months or even years. For other
      computer geeks
      > out there, I'm learning a bit about Flash, which looks
      promising for
      > this project.
      >
      > Which brings me to some shameless promotion - I've had a
      website about
      > the battle going for some years, called Antietam on the
      Web (AotW),
      > but it's never been as complete or thorough or interesting
      or useful
      > as I'd like. I've recently found a new home/server, and
      done some
      > database and web programming to better present information
      I do have
      > assembled. I invite you to come take a look at
      http://aotw.org
      >
      > And ... if anyone has the time and inclination, I'm
      looking for help
      > in continuing to build and refine the AotW website in a
      number of ways
      > - actually hoping to build a communitiy of fellow
      enthusiasts who have
      > things to say about the Battle. I'll never be able to do
      it justice
      > alone. I've built some simple web tools members can use
      to contribute
      > directly on the site, online.
      >
      > AotW is an outlet and focus for my passion for the
      History, and is
      > strictly non-commercial. No fees, no advertising, no
      marketing, no
      > hidden agendae. I hope this doesn't look like spam!
      >
      > Anyway, it's good to be back, and I look forward to
      hearing from you
      > all. Thanks!
      >
      > Brian
      > bdowney@...
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      >
    • TR Livesey
      Brian, Are you using any of the Mr.Sid accessory tools in viewing the LOC maps? If you have photoshop, you can download (free) a MrSid plugin, which allows you
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 7 8:52 PM
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        Brian,

        Are you using any of the Mr.Sid accessory tools in viewing the LOC maps?
        If you have photoshop, you can download (free) a MrSid plugin, which allows
        you to download the whole map (all 14 of 'em), and then interactively
        zoom and pan all you like off-line. Very nice set of tools.

        I have had an on-again/off-again project for taking the Carman-Cope maps
        and bringing up to date with some new technology. Let me know if you
        want to 'talk shop'.

        Regards,
        TR Livesey
        tlivesey@...
        http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam

        PS - nice new look on the aotw site; I don't think I've taken a look at it for
        awhile.

        Brian Downey wrote:
        >
        > On a related note, I have been delighting in the Carman-Cope maps of
        > the Battlefield at Antietam - the Atlas. The Library of Congress has
        > put them online, along with some pretty sophisticated viewing
        > software. The maps are very large (digitally speaking), but just
        > magnificently reproduced. I recommend a vist, if you haven't already
        > seen them, to:
        > http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/gmd:@field(NUMBER+@band(g3842am+gcw0247000))
        >
        > Because of the large scale of the maps, and the fine-grain detail,
        > they're impossible to see all at once on one computer screen, at least
        > at a legible magnification. So, I'm beginning work on versions of
        > these maps optimized for the Web using these LoC digital images with
        > symbols overlayed, and eventually interactively linked to more
        > information about units, individuals, etc. At my present rate,
        > though, this might take months or even years. For other computer geeks
        > out there, I'm learning a bit about Flash, which looks promising for
        > this project.
        >
        > Which brings me to some shameless promotion - I've had a website about
        > the battle going for some years, called Antietam on the Web (AotW),
        > but it's never been as complete or thorough or interesting or useful
        > as I'd like. I've recently found a new home/server, and done some
        > database and web programming to better present information I do have
        > assembled. I invite you to come take a look at http://aotw.org
        >
        > And ... if anyone has the time and inclination, I'm looking for help
        > in continuing to build and refine the AotW website in a number of ways
        > - actually hoping to build a communitiy of fellow enthusiasts who have
        > things to say about the Battle. I'll never be able to do it justice
        > alone. I've built some simple web tools members can use to contribute
        > directly on the site, online.
        >
        > AotW is an outlet and focus for my passion for the History, and is
        > strictly non-commercial. No fees, no advertising, no marketing, no
        > hidden agendae. I hope this doesn't look like spam!
        >
        > Anyway, it's good to be back, and I look forward to hearing from you
        > all. Thanks!
        >
        > Brian
        > bdowney@...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Brian Downey
        Hi Todd, Yes, I m using the LoC provided MrSid viewer at home, but not the photoshop plugin. I m a macromedia shop just now :) My approach to optimizing
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 8 9:40 AM
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          Hi Todd,

          Yes, I'm using the LoC provided MrSid viewer at home, but not the
          photoshop plugin. I'm a macromedia shop just now :)

          My approach to "optimizing" these for display on the Web is pretty low
          tech, really. My plan is to create a base map - a bitmap graphic - on
          the order of 500px square, for each of 3 or 4 major sections of the
          battlefield, and overlay vector-graphic symbols for the military units
          and other items of interest. [My first attempt at such a base map, in
          this case of the entire field and with text overlayed, is at
          http://aotw.org/overview.php%5d In Flash I can use these symbols as
          hyperlinks to narratives, unit and leader information, and other
          data-based material. I can also 'animate' the symbols from one time
          frame to the next to better show operations over the course of the
          day. Because most of the presentation uses small vector-mapped objects
          or is coming from the database on-demand, I ought to be able to keep
          the client-side "thin" and load times small. That's the plan, anyway.

          A couple of years ago I would not have seriously considered Flash - I
          was something of an HTML purist - but it looks like most web users
          have the Flash plugin now, and can readily use that kind of display.
          I'm a raw amateur in Flash to this point, however, so this might take
          a while!

          Thanks for asking, tho the rest of the group are probably bored to
          tears ... at the risk of making it worse, what's involved in your
          project? [Perhaps a moderator should step in and recommend we take
          this to email]

          Brian
          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, TR Livesey <tlivesey@w...> wrote:
          > Brian,
          >
          > Are you using any of the Mr.Sid accessory tools in viewing the LOC maps?
          > If you have photoshop, you can download (free) a MrSid plugin, which
          allows
          > you to download the whole map (all 14 of 'em), and then interactively
          > zoom and pan all you like off-line. Very nice set of tools.
          >
          > I have had an on-again/off-again project for taking the Carman-Cope maps
          > and bringing up to date with some new technology. Let me know if you
          > want to 'talk shop'.
          >
          > Regards,
          > TR Livesey
          > tlivesey@w...
          > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam
          >
        • TR Livesey
          Brian, Very interesting. I m actually working at a level higher--ideas that could be displayable on a web page, or could be a downloadable application, etc.,
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 10 7:55 PM
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            Brian,

            Very interesting.

            I'm actually working at a level higher--ideas that could be displayable
            on a web page, or could be a downloadable application, etc., but
            not specifically targeted for any particular medium. I am increasingly
            looking toward GPS (global positioning systems) applications. For example,
            you could download a map of the battlefield (showing troop positions
            at a certain time) onto your GPS unit, and then 'navigate' yourself
            around points of interest that would not otherwise be visible on
            the modern battlefield.

            What I am doing with the Cope maps is to capture the troop positions
            in terms of geographical coordinates (e.g. latitude & longitude, but
            I'm actually using a different coordinate system that has much finer
            resolution). Once such a database is built up, all kinds of things
            are possible. As is, the Cope maps are arranged chronologically:
            snapshots of troop positions taken at 14 points in time. It might
            be interesting to instead generate a map that shows the various positions
            of a certain unit (or set of units) across the entire day.

            I don't like using the Cope maps themselves as a base map, for
            a variety of reasons. I like to work in layers. There should
            be a layer that contains just the boundaries of the fields &
            features; there should be a layer containing the elevation (contour
            lines or whatever); there should be a layer that contains troop
            positions; a layer of labels and text, etc. For a given need,
            you produce the layers you are interested in. The Cope maps are
            a finished map, so all the layers flattened down, and the results
            can be quite cluttered; you can't get rid of the things you
            don't want to see. For example, it is usually desirable to
            show contour lines at an increment (e.g. every 20 feet, or every
            10 feet, etc.) appropriate for the scale of the map. If the
            increment is too small the lines overlap and overwhelm or obliterate
            the rest of the map. Since the contour lines are actually on
            the Cope map, it is not possible to substitute contours of a different
            increment.

            The other problem with the Cope maps is that they suffer from
            horizontal distortions. If you produced a modern map to the
            same scale and overlaid it and 1 of the Cope maps, you could
            get features close together to line up, but not ones far
            apart (you'd never be able to line up the Smoketown Road
            and Miller's Sawmill road). For an illustration, see
            http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/antietam/maps/background.html.
            This kind of detail may seem irrelevant for a web page. For
            other applications, however, it is critical. For example, people
            are increasingly starting to employ GPS
            technology to their field work. It would be desirable to be able
            to download these maps to a GPS unit. Because of the Cope
            maps horizontal distortions, it would not be suitable to download
            them to a GPS unit.

            This is not to say I don't like the Cope maps. Actually,
            I have a real set of my own. Not a repro, but an actual
            1904 volume. The thing is huge! You have not experienced
            these beautiful maps until you have browsed through a full
            sized copy.

            I have had for several years a nice, horizontally accurate
            database containing the base Antietam map (field boundaries
            and features as per 1862) and a nice digital 5 foot increment
            contour map. Once I have info on the troop positions, I'll
            be 1 step closer to something interesting.

            I have no experience with Flash. I am leaning more toward Java.
            If you are going to assume that people have the Flash plugin,
            I'd just as well assume they have the Java plugin, which
            is much more useful. If the browser was too confining, I'd
            just move to a download able Java application.

            At first glance, it does seem like we have wildly different
            approaches. Nonetheless, there ought to be a way to find some
            synergy.

            Regards,
            TR Livesey
            tlivesey@...

            Brian Downey wrote:
            >
            > Hi Todd,
            >
            > Yes, I'm using the LoC provided MrSid viewer at home, but not the
            > photoshop plugin. I'm a macromedia shop just now :)
            >
            > My approach to "optimizing" these for display on the Web is pretty low
            > tech, really. My plan is to create a base map - a bitmap graphic - on
            > the order of 500px square, for each of 3 or 4 major sections of the
            > battlefield, and overlay vector-graphic symbols for the military units
            > and other items of interest. [My first attempt at such a base map, in
            > this case of the entire field and with text overlayed, is at
            > http://aotw.org/overview.php%5d In Flash I can use these symbols as
            > hyperlinks to narratives, unit and leader information, and other
            > data-based material. I can also 'animate' the symbols from one time
            > frame to the next to better show operations over the course of the
            > day. Because most of the presentation uses small vector-mapped objects
            > or is coming from the database on-demand, I ought to be able to keep
            > the client-side "thin" and load times small. That's the plan, anyway.
            >
            > A couple of years ago I would not have seriously considered Flash - I
            > was something of an HTML purist - but it looks like most web users
            > have the Flash plugin now, and can readily use that kind of display.
            > I'm a raw amateur in Flash to this point, however, so this might take
            > a while!
            >
            > Thanks for asking, tho the rest of the group are probably bored to
            > tears ... at the risk of making it worse, what's involved in your
            > project? [Perhaps a moderator should step in and recommend we take
            > this to email]
            >
            > Brian
            > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, TR Livesey <tlivesey@w...> wrote:
            > > Brian,
            > >
            > > Are you using any of the Mr.Sid accessory tools in viewing the LOC maps?
            > > If you have photoshop, you can download (free) a MrSid plugin, which
            > allows
            > > you to download the whole map (all 14 of 'em), and then interactively
            > > zoom and pan all you like off-line. Very nice set of tools.
            > >
            > > I have had an on-again/off-again project for taking the Carman-Cope maps
            > > and bringing up to date with some new technology. Let me know if you
            > > want to 'talk shop'.
            > >
            > > Regards,
            > > TR Livesey
            > > tlivesey@w...
            > > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • Brian Downey
            Dang, Todd - Your project indeed sounds like it has excellent potential for use on the ground. ... displayable ... And yes, I think there might be some
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 12 12:35 PM
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              Dang, Todd -

              Your project indeed sounds like it has excellent potential for use on
              the ground.

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, TR Livesey <tlivesey@w...> wrote:
              > Brian,
              >
              > Very interesting.
              >
              > I'm actually working at a level higher--ideas that could be
              displayable ... <snip>

              And yes, I think there might be some common threads between our
              approaches. I'd say our fundamental differences in approach are the
              result of our end-goals, but the two techniques might have some
              shareable elements.

              I'll get back to you by email, if that's ok, rather than bore the rest
              of the group with this topic.

              > This is not to say I don't like the Cope maps. Actually,
              > I have a real set of my own. Not a repro, but an actual
              > 1904 volume. The thing is huge! You have not experienced
              > these beautiful maps until you have browsed through a full
              > sized copy.
              >

              This is fantastic! I'd love to have a copy, but haven't seen one for
              sale yet. How did you come upon yours, if I may ask?

              <more stuff snipped>
              >
              > Regards,
              > TR Livesey
              > tlivesey@w...

              Brian
              email name: bdowney
              at
              domain: aotw.org
            • TR Livesey
              ... Where else? All together class...EBAY!
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 12 7:28 PM
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                Brian Downey wrote:

                > > This is not to say I don't like the Cope maps. Actually,
                > > I have a real set of my own. Not a repro, but an actual
                > > 1904 volume. The thing is huge! You have not experienced
                > > these beautiful maps until you have browsed through a full
                > > sized copy.
                > >
                >
                > This is fantastic! I'd love to have a copy, but haven't seen one for
                > sale yet. How did you come upon yours, if I may ask?
                >

                Where else? All together class...EBAY!
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