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5848Re: [TalkAntietam] River crossing

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  • Thomas Clemens
    Sep 22, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      I think it will Dave, and thanks for coming. Sorry I missed you and thanks for the kind words.

      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College


      >>> "david lutton" <dunkerch@...> 09/22/09 8:53 PM >>>
      Jim,

      I totally agree. I think a great time was had by all.
      I hope this tour will become an annual event, and perhaps by next year we will have some positive news on the battlefield's fate. The 118th Pa. along with the other units who fought there should be remembered by more than a wayside marker.


      David
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jim Rosebrock
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:02 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] River crossing


      Non the less great fun Tom. Thanks for leading us around yesterday.
      Regards Tom

      ________________________________
      From: Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...>
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:20:26 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] River crossing

      I don't think we were at the right place either, although I'd swear we went in opposite the place where we came out last year. I'll need to do better recon next year.

      >>> "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@comcast. net> 09/21/09 8:14 PM >>>
      I was on the 2:30 tour, and I'm pretty sure we were not on the smooth ford described from last years tour. I could be wrong, though.

      Harry
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: david lutton
      To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 7:51 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] River crossing

      I was on the 3:30 crossing this Saturday and was wondering if the 2:30 tour had any problems in finding the actual ford.
      I remember last year after a little searching we found a very smooth riverbed to cross, not so on my tour.
      Tom McGrath more than made up for this however by conducting a very good tour!

      David Lutton
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Thomas Clemens
      To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 12:40 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Capture of Longstreet's ammunitiontrain, 9/15

      Just reading this now. Thanks for coming, it was great to have you along.

      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College

      >>> Jim Rosebrock <pointsalines@ yahoo.com> 09/19/09 12:18 AM >>>
      Looking forward to the tour tomorrow. Will see you at the 2:30 trek
      Regards
      Jim

      ____________ _________ _________ __
      From: Thomas Clemens <clemenst@hagerstown cc.edu>
      To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 10:11:36 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Capture of Longstreet's ammunition train, 9/15

      The 2:30 tour. Just talked to Tom McGrath tonight, he is looking forward to the tour too. Joe Harsh and I could never figure out the 17 mile story. I think we got 14 or so, but it certainly is not 17.

      >>> "eighth_conn_ inf" <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com> 09/18/09 4:16 PM >>>
      Thanks Tom for that reminder!

      Here is the correction: "Lt. Col. Edward Porter Alexander, Chief of Ordnance for the Army of Northern Virginia.... " My HF escape chapter is nearly completion.

      Alexander said about this incident in his other book that he and his wagons had to return 13 miles to HF which certainly supports Jim Rosebrock's measurements- -~13 vice Hill's 17.

      BTW, for tomorrow's fording, are you leading the 2:30 or 3:30 crossing?

      Larry

      --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@.. .> wrote:
      >
      > Larry,
      > Great posts lately, just one minor point. Alexander was an Ordnance officer at this time, not yet commanding any artillery.
      > Tom
      >
      > >>> "eighth_conn_ inf" <eighth_conn_ inf@...> 09/18/09 9:33 AM >>>
      > As Dean states and as Brian has written on AotW, the loss of the ammo for the ANV artillery was important.
      >
      > The practical effect of the loss of much ammunition for Lee's artillery meant that there was not ample ammunition for Rebel guns during the battle on the 17th. Edward Porter Alexander in charge of Longstreet's artillery wrote that "when I arrived at Shepherdstown, about noon on the 16th, with my ordnance train, and rode across the river and reported to Lee, I was ordered to collect all empty wagons and go to Harper's Ferry and take charge of the surrendered ammunition; bringing back to Sharpsburg all suiting our calibres, and sending to Winchester whatever we could not use in the field. The prospect of this addition to our supply was grateful, for the expenditures had been something, at Boonsboro, Crampton's Gap, and Harper's Ferry; and the loss of the 45 loads, burned by the [enemy] cavalry, had been a severe blow at such a distance from our base at Culpeper. I was soon on my way back, and encamped that night with many wagons not far from Harper's
      Ferry." (Alexander, Military Memoirs of A Confederate, 242.)
      >
      > Larry F.
      >
      > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Dean Essig <d.essig@> wrote:
      > >
      > > On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:41 AM, troyacool@ wrote:
      > >
      > > > Is there any idea of the amount of ordinance lost or how it
      > > > effected the campaign or SOP.
      > >
      > >
      > > Given the paucity of ammo in the army reserve trains (using the 30
      > > Jun 63 ANVa ordnance receipts in Brown's Retreat from Gettysburg as a
      > > guide), Longstreet's trains would have represented somewhere between
      > > 33 and 50% of the army's artillery reserve ammunition.
      > >
      > > Far less than that percentage when it comes to small arms ammo, as it
      > > was more distributed into divisional trains.
      > >
      > > Artillery ammunition was frightfully limited for the ANVa at
      > > Sharpsburg (and that doesn't even address the organizational
      > > confusion at the army train park at the Grove Farm).
      > >
      > > Dean
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >

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