Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

4294Re: Regimental numbers during the Maryland Campaign

Expand Messages
  • eighth_conn_inf
    Feb 14, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Oops, these numbers from Sid EXCLUDE horse artillery:

      Union 2976, Conf. 2724.

      Is Sid still around or has he gone to his reward?

      Larry
      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf"
      <eighth_conn_inf@...> wrote:
      >
      > Tom,
      >
      > Thanks very much for the reminder! Using "hard" numbers for the cav
      > is difficult as you point out since Union cavalry was arriving all
      > through the campaign. I will have to use many caveats to explain
      > numbers from 2 September to 20 September but have to base the
      numbers
      > on what I have in Carman, ORs, regimental histories, etc.
      >
      > If Sid's numbers are anywhere near accurate (+/- 20%) then I will
      > have much explaining to do re my estimates. I certainly don't have
      > evidence to estimate Union numbers especially on a daily basis for
      > that period unless Dean's researcher comes up with something. Conf.
      > numbers as you know are always questionable in the best of
      > circumstances and it is very unlikely IMO that they have daily
      > reports for the cav. for this campaign. And as we know, numbers of
      > men actually on their horses ready for duty is much smaller that
      > numbers on the rolls, present for duty, etc. But even using Sid's
      > numbers including horse artillery, Union 2976, Conf. 2724, the
      > numbers are believable IMO for 17 September.
      >
      > Here is the data I have so far:
      >
      > Union
      > 4,320 on 17 September 1862 (OR, 19, pt. I, 67); 3,828 cavalry and
      > artillery 492 (Carman, 459)
      >
      > 4,543 present for duty on 20 and 30 September 1862; aggregate
      > including absent: 7,686 (OR, 19, pt. II, 336,374)
      >
      > 7,000 plus 600 horse artillery on 1 October 1862 (estimated) (OR,
      pt.
      > I, 97)
      >
      > 5,058 present for duty including horse artillery on 10 October
      1862;
      > aggregate including absent: 7,686(OR, pt. II, 410)
      >
      > 8,391 on 1 November 1862 (including horse artillery) (OR, pt. I, 98)
      >
      > Confederate
      > 4,155 on 2 September 1862 (Sounding the Shallows, 139)
      >
      > 4,500 on 17 September 1862 (Carman, 465, Sounding the Shallows,
      201)
      >
      > If anyone has better data, please let me know.
      >
      > Thank you,
      > Larry
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Larry,
      > > Don't forget that Carman's numbers are for Sept. 17 only. Much
      of
      > the cav present by then was not present earlier in the campaign.
      It
      > would be a gross mistake to call the cav divisions roughly equal in
      > number before the 17th.
      > >
      > >
      > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      > > Professor of History
      > > Hagerstown Community College
      > >
      > >
      > > >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@> 02/13/08 7:47 AM >>>
      > > Thanks Dean,
      > >
      > > The total cav numbers in Carman, OR, etc., are good but unit
      > numbers
      > > are lacking. It is unlikely I can research unit numbers at NARA
      so
      > I
      > > might have to come up with some estimates like Harsh did in STS
      > page
      > > 191-192.
      > >
      > > I have the CW Equipage book on the way so I can reference weapons.
      > >
      > > Cannon types/numbers are around but as you point out are
      incomplete
      > > in some areas but I will use Trout, "Galloping Thunder" and
      > > Johnson, "Artillery Hell" as follows: Trout, 8. At the Battle of
      > > Antietam on 17 September, only Pelham's Battery was engaged with
      > two,
      > > three inch ordnance rifles; one, twelve pound Napoleon, and five
      > > unidentified guns. It abandoned its howitzers for Ordnance rifles
      > > captured on 27 August 1862 at Manassas Junction. Hart's Battery
      had
      > > four, twelve pound Blakeley guns and Chew's Battery had two or
      > three,
      > > three inch Ordnance rifles, one Blakely Rifle and one, twelve
      pound
      > > smoothbore howitzer, Curt Johnson and Richard C. Anderson, Jr.,
      > > Artillery Hell: The Employment of Artillery at Antietam, (College
      > > Station, TX: Texas A&M University Press, 1995), 100-101. Union
      > horse
      > > artillery, Second U. S. Battery A, had six, twelve pound smooth
      > bore
      > > Napoleons, Second U. S. Batteries B and L had four, twelve pound
      > > smooth bore Napoleons, and Battery M of the Second had six, three
      > > inch Ordnance rifles. Batteries C and G of the Third U. S.
      > Artillery
      > > had six, three inch Ordnance rifles, Johnson, 35.
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > > Larry
      > >
      > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dean Essig <dean_essig@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Cav numbers are pretty sketchy. Priest gives 4320 for
      > > > the division. The park had nothing. So, my cav numbers
      > > > are estimates at best... if you have anything harder,
      > > > I'd love to see them.
      > > >
      > > > For weapons, (all data from Todd):
      > > > 8 Ill, 3 Ind, 4 Penn, 1 NY, 12 Penn, 8 NY, 3 Penn, 1
      > > > Maine all with Carbines of various types
      > > >
      > > > 1 Mass, 15 Penn are armed with pistols.
      > > >
      > > > (I listed all of the ones I had data on, it obviously
      > > > includes some units that weren't in the battle.)
      > > >
      > > > The horse artillery is easier:
      > > >
      > > > A, 2 US--6x Napoleons
      > > > B&L, 2 US--4x Napoleons
      > > > M, 2 US--6x Rifles
      > > > C&G, 3 US--6x Rifles
      > > >
      > > > These are all from the Paul Chiles B&G article.
      > > >
      > > > I have a scattering of weapon data for the various HQ
      > > > guard units.
      > > >
      > > > The Rebel information is about the same level.
      > > >
      > > > 4500 total for the Cav division (Carmen)
      > > >
      > > > 1 NC, 1 VA, 3 VA, 4 VA, 5 VA, 2 VA, 12 VA with pistols
      > > >
      > > > 2 NC, 7 VA, Cobb Legion with rifles (2 NC also listed
      > > > for pistols)
      > > >
      > > > Batteries (info from Anderson):
      > > > Hart SC (4x rifles w/o ammo at Boteler's Ford)
      > > > Pelham (8x guns, two 4-gun sections, various gun types
      > > > nothing firm)
      > > > Chew Va 3x Rifles, 1x Napoleon
      > > >
      > > > (There is a story to go with the Napoleon in Chew's
      > > > Battery... something along the lines of they had it
      > > > for a period of the war but found it to be too heavy
      > > > to keep up with the cavalry and eventually (before
      > > > Gettysburg?) got rid of it.)
      > > >
      > > > Hope that helps.
      > > >
      > > > Dean
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > Dean,
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks very much for this info! The units I'm
      > > > > looking for are all cav
      > > > > units on both sides and horse artillery. My paper is
      > > > > on cav during
      > > > > the Maryland Campaign.
      > > > >
      > > > > Larry
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      > > ______________
      > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
      > > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
      > > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?
      > category=shopping
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Show all 21 messages in this topic