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2512Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Lee's Reasons for Retreating to Sharpsburg (plus two quick questions)

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  • NJ Rebel
    Feb 16, 2006
      Phil;

      Tom Clemens earned his Doctorate working on parts of the Carman MS, so
      he would be the one to ask on this board.

      However, if you have the Sid Meier game "Antietam", you might want to
      check to see what part of the Carman MS on the game might mention the
      information you seek.

      You might also want to try a Google search for some Antietam related
      websites and especially take a look at the AOtW website.

      Thank you for your compliment but I am just a student like
      yourself...trying to come to grips with the battle that was the
      strategic turning point of the War. Even though Vicksburg basically
      broke the Confederacy in half and Gettysburg blunted the offensive
      power of the ANV, it was Sharpsburg which gave AL the impetus to
      release the Preliminary Emancipation Proclamation...which put England
      and France on notice that the US was finally going to do something
      about slavery and also meant the Federal Govt. was going to see the
      War through no matter what. What most people do not realize about the
      EP is that it really did not free any slaves in the Loyal States or in
      most of the South where the Union forces were in control.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      "....the powers granted under the Constitution, being derived from the
      people of the United States, may be resumed by them, whenever the same
      shall be perverted to their injury or oppression;.."
      Act of State of Virginia adopting the Federal Constitution, 26 June
      1788

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "philipkesaris" <philipkesaris@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:28 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Lee's Reasons for Retreating to Sharpsburg
      (plus two quick questions)


      > Gerry - Thanks! I've been to Antietam dozens of times and have
      > recently tried to actually read all the tablets closely. The
      > references to "Sumner's Bridge" had me scratching my head... As to
      > #2, I think I know the house you are talking about - it is close to
      > the road (Alt 40 going west, just before "Bolivar") and obviously
      > very old. I'm sure Tom will correct me if it's not the house. The
      > only reference I could find to "Marameade" on Google was a ghost
      > story about a house in Middletown. As to my question about Lee's
      > decision to retreat from SM, I'm inclined to credit Harsh too - TATF
      > is an amazing tour de force; the level of detail awes me. Wonder if
      > Carman addressed the subject? BTW, I've really enjoyed reading all
      > of your insightful comments in this forum... Regards, - PK
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
      > wrote:
      >>
      >> Phil,
      >>
      >> Welcome. As to most of your questions, I will try addressing if
      >> possible:
      >>
      >> 1. Your mention is the first time I have heard the Upper Bridge
      > across
      >> the Antietam, which btw is still being used as a road bridge to
      > this
      >> day, referred as such!
      >> 2. IIRC, there is a house which Mac and Burn used as HQ during the
      >> advance between Middletown and South Mountain and again IIRC, it is
      >> located on the left hand side of the road probably a few miles from
      >> Middletown.
      >> 3. It is possible Lee could have telescoped a few events together,
      > but
      >> I would tend to go with Harsh, who was very meticulous in his
      >> research. Tom Clemens is a student of Joe's and might be the best
      >> person to address this particular question. It is also possible Lee
      >> could have, as you state, simply decided to abandon the campaign
      > based
      >> on the disaster at Turners/Fox's Passes rather than Cramptons.
      >> Sharpsburg was initially meant as a rallying point for the "main
      > body"
      >> plus McLaws...but when Jackson reported Harpers Ferry would soon
      > fall,
      >> Lee decided to make a stand at Sharpsburg and offer battle.
      >>
      >> Hope this helps.....
      >>
      >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
      >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
      >>
      >> "....the powers granted under the Constitution, being derived from
      > the
      >> people of the United States, may be resumed by them, whenever the
      > same
      >> shall be perverted to their injury or oppression;.."
      >> Act of State of Virginia adopting the Federal Constitution, 26 June
      >> 1788
      >>
      >> ----- Original Message -----
      >> From: "philipkesaris" <philipkesaris@...>
      >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      >> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:20 PM
      >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Lee's Reasons for Retreating to Sharpsburg
      >> (plus two quick questions)
      >>
      >>
      >> Folks: I recently joined this group and wanted to read every post
      >> before contributing, as I didn't want to go over old ground. I've
      >> read them all and learned a ton from all of you - fantastic group!
      >> Two quick questions and then a comment I'd love to hear your
      > thoughts
      >> on. The two questions: (1) Was the Upper Bridge/Hitt Bridge also
      >> known as the "Sumner Bridge"? I noted two War Department tablets
      >> (about Meade's and Ricketts' divisions on 9/16) that refer to it as
      >> such. Was this a mistake? I thought Sumner crossed the creek at
      > the
      >> Pry Mill ford? Also, IIRC, wasn't there a bridge across the
      >> Chickahominy called the "Sumner Bridge" that was used in the
      >> Peninsula Campaign? (2) Where is "Marameade" located? I'm guessing
      >> it's the name of a farm/house on the Nat'l Road between Middletown
      >> and Turner's Gap where Mac and Burn stayed on the night of Sept.
      >> 14,
      >> but just where is it? My comment: I just finished Tim
      > Reese's "High-
      >> Water Mark" wherein he contends (pp. 52-53) that Lee retired to
      >> Sharpsburg because of the Union breakthrough at Crampton's Gap.
      >> Tim
      >> cites Lee's Sept. 16 message to Davis, his campaign report of
      >> 8/19/63, and Wm. Allen's notes of his 1868 interview with Lee. Joe
      >> Harsh, in contrast, argues that Lee made the decision to retire
      >> from
      >> South Mountain at about 8 pm on the 14th (based only on the
      > situation
      >> at Turner's Gap), which led to Lee's 8:15 pm message to McLaws
      >> (the "day has gone against us" message). According to Harsh, this
      >> was two hours before Lee learned of the loss of Crampton's Gap.
      >> See
      >> TATF p. 289 and Sounding the Shallows pp. 181-82. Was
      >> Lee "telescoping" events in his writings cited by Reese? Harsh
      >> relies on careful timelines to make his point, but Reese relies on
      >> Lee's own words. Any thoughts? - Phil Kesaris
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
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