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2494Re: [TalkAntietam] Order 191

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  • richard@rcroker.com
    Feb 11, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      There are some things that are not only unknown -- but unknowable.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:49 PM
      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Order 191


      > I believe Harsh says that Lee lost the initiative even before that -
      around
      > the time that the timetable for the Martinsburg/Harper's Ferry operation
      > went to hell. And that was pretty quick. Lee never planned for the
      > possibility that the garrison at HF would hold out - at least not in SO
      191.
      > If he accounted for that contingency, he did not record it, nor did anyone
      > else.
      >
      >
      >
      > Harry
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
      On
      > Behalf Of NJ Rebel
      > Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:59 PM
      > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Order 191
      >
      >
      >
      > Harry,
      >
      > Being the scholar of Antietam/Sharpsburg that I am, and also having
      > digested Harsh's books, I agree.
      >
      > Stuart should take more blame for some of the shortcomings of the
      > campaign, but as Harsh says so eloquently, Lee lost the initiative of
      > the Campaign about the time the "Lost Order" was found.....
      >
      > Maybe Pete Longstreet was right in his concerns about splitting the
      > ANV into so many segments....
      >
      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
      >
      > "....the powers granted under the Constitution, being derived from the
      > people of the United States, may be resumed by them, whenever the same
      > shall be perverted to their injury or oppression;.."
      > Act of State of Virginia adopting the Federal Constitution, 26 June
      > 1788
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:52 PM
      > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Order 191
      >
      >
      > > If you're covering the beginning of the campaign, keep in mind that
      > > SO 191
      > > was not even written until the 9th, and not found until the 13th. I
      > > don't
      > > know that I'd call that the beginning of the campaign.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Another question you might ask is just when did Lee discover that
      > > McClellan
      > > had taken the field against him? The last army he had faced was led
      > > by
      > > Pope. There was a very brief announcement, I think on the 6th, that
      > > McClellan had moved his HQ outside the city limits, but I'm not sure
      > > Lee
      > > would have seen this, and even if he had he may not have come to the
      > > conclusion that Pope had been displaced.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > One chronicler of the campaign has a rather unusual way of
      > > rationalizing all
      > > of this. Relying on the old saw that Lee gathered a lot of intel
      > > from
      > > Northern papers, he claims that Lee became aware of the change in
      > > commanders
      > > and even tailored his campaign on the fly to take advantage of
      > > McClellan's
      > > "weaknesses." But with the publication of the discovery of SO 191
      > > on either
      > > the 14th or 15th (can't remember right now), and Lee's claiming to
      > > be
      > > unaware of this discovery, he (the author) magically concludes that
      > > Lee's
      > > newspaper sources had dried up. Well, maybe they had dried up long
      > > before.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > As Joe Harsh has pointed out, it was not important whether Lee knew
      > > about
      > > the discovery of the order. What was important was that he now knew
      > > that
      > > the AotP was much closer and moving much faster than he had been led
      > > to
      > > believe (for this I fault Stuart, who did not shine in the roles of
      > > scouting
      > > and screening in this campaign).
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Harry
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      > > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
      > > Behalf Of nickrelee@...
      > > Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:37 PM
      > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Order 191
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > As I've mentioned before our study group is doing the Antietam
      > > campaign
      > > this
      > > year. Next week we will be discussing the beginning of the campaign
      > > and
      > > will definetly hit on order 191. Having read many different sources
      > > I'm
      > > still
      > > confused as to when Lee knew about McClellan's finding of the
      > > order. I
      > > think
      > > it was Murfin who said that at 10 pm on the 13th Lee sent a message
      > > to
      > > McLaws(?) that said the Union was coming to Harper's Ferry, but that
      > > the
      > > Union
      > > moves that afternoon had not been in that direction so he assumed
      > > that Lee
      > > had
      > > heard about the finding and assumed Mac would go to HF. Someone
      > > else said
      > > that
      > > Lee did not know about it until that winter when he read a
      > > newspaper
      > > account
      > > of it. And someone else said that he knew of it but that the
      > > newspaper
      > > just
      > > revealed who's copy had been lost. So what is the most accepted
      > > version?
      > > --Nick
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
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