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Underwood 2?

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  • frank notten
    I just received what I believe is an Underwood 2. I bought it from an antiques dealer on the internet, who thought it was from the 1940s. It looks like an
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 12, 2013
      I just received what I believe is an Underwood 2. I bought it from an antiques dealer on the internet, who thought it was from the 1940s.

      It looks like an Underwood 1 (no see-saw ribbon color selector and a metal colored scale strip) but it has 42 keys instead of 38, so - according to Ernst Martin (1923), p. 218 - that would make it a #2. The serial number is 9732. There is no patent information on the back (no mention to Wagner, nothing).

      I haven't found a lot of information yet about this machine or its rarity, except for a message in this mailing list from 2002, claiming that only 2 other Underwood #2's were known: 
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TYPEWRITERS/message/13360

      So, logically, I am very excited about this find. Is this really an Underwood 2? And if so, is it really that rare? Anyone else owns an Underwood 2? What is the serial number?


      I've posted some pictures here:

      http://schrijfmachine.blogspot.nl/2013/04/did-i-just-receive-underwood-2.html


      Thanks to all,

      Frank

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Steve Stephens
      That sure is an Underwood No.2 with 42 keys and other features of the early Underwood No.1s. Very nice find; even has early or original ribbon spools. This
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 13, 2013
        That sure is an Underwood No.2 with 42 keys and other features of the early Underwood No.1s. Very nice find; even has early or original ribbon spools. This is the first No.2 that I have seen photos of.

        Steve Stephens
        San Anselmo, CA

        --- In TYPEWRITERS@yahoogroups.com, frank notten <franknotten@...> wrote:
        >
        > I just received what I believe is an Underwood 2. I bought it from an antiques dealer on the internet, who thought it was from the 1940s.
        >
        > It looks like an Underwood 1 (no see-saw ribbon color selector and a metal colored scale strip) but it has 42 keys instead of 38, so - according to Ernst Martin (1923), p. 218 - that would make it a #2. The serial number is 9732. There is no patent information on the back (no mention to Wagner, nothing).
        >
        > I haven't found a lot of information yet about this machine or its rarity, except for a message in this mailing list from 2002, claiming that only 2 other Underwood #2's were known: 
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TYPEWRITERS/message/13360
        >
        > So, logically, I am very excited about this find. Is this really an Underwood 2? And if so, is it really that rare? Anyone else owns an Underwood 2? What is the serial number?
        >
        >
        > I've posted some pictures here:
        >
        > http://schrijfmachine.blogspot.nl/2013/04/did-i-just-receive-underwood-2.html
        >
        >
        > Thanks to all,
        >
        > Frank
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Peter Weil
        What is the exact serial number of the typewriter. The serial # s of Wagner-Underwoods always have a suffix made up of a hyphen and the model number. For
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 13, 2013
          What is the exact serial number of the typewriter. The serial #'s of Wagner-Underwoods always have a suffix made up of a hyphen and the model number. For example, the serial #'s of my number 1 is

          12543-1

          and that of my Wagner_Underwood # 4 is

          11287-4

          The serial number should thus answer the question of the model number, even without any other information from front decals.

          By the way, the rocker ribbon switch is not an indicator f the model #. The Wagner-Underwood # 5 has no ribbon switch.

          Congratulations on your Underwood find.

          Peter




          On Apr 13, 2013, at 8:23 PM, Steve Stephens wrote:

          > That sure is an Underwood No.2 with 42 keys and other features of the early Underwood No.1s. Very nice find; even has early or original ribbon spools. This is the first No.2 that I have seen photos of.
          >
          > Steve Stephens
          > San Anselmo, CA
          >
          > --- In TYPEWRITERS@yahoogroups.com, frank notten <franknotten@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > I just received what I believe is an Underwood 2. I bought it from an antiques dealer on the internet, who thought it was from the 1940s.
          > >
          > > It looks like an Underwood 1 (no see-saw ribbon color selector and a metal colored scale strip) but it has 42 keys instead of 38, so - according to Ernst Martin (1923), p. 218 - that would make it a #2. The serial number is 9732. There is no patent information on the back (no mention to Wagner, nothing).
          > >
          > > I haven't found a lot of information yet about this machine or its rarity, except for a message in this mailing list from 2002, claiming that only 2 other Underwood #2's were known:
          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TYPEWRITERS/message/13360
          > >
          > > So, logically, I am very excited about this find. Is this really an Underwood 2? And if so, is it really that rare? Anyone else owns an Underwood 2? What is the serial number?
          > >
          > >
          > > I've posted some pictures here:
          > >
          > > http://schrijfmachine.blogspot.nl/2013/04/did-i-just-receive-underwood-2.html
          > >
          > >
          > > Thanks to all,
          > >
          > > Frank
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Steve Stephens
          One would think that Peter but this No.2 has no -2 that I can see on the serial number pad:
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 13, 2013
            One would think that Peter but this No.2 has no "-2" that I can see on the serial number pad:
            http://schrijfmachine.blogspot.nl/2013/04/did-i-just-receive-underwood-2.html
            I think it is a foreign made or made for a foreign country machine. Would that explain the lack of the model number in the serial number?

            Not only the Wagner Underwoods but any Underwood up through 1909 has no ribbon selector ribbon rocker. Underwood was constantly improving things and making the newer models cheaper for us collectors years later. Hey Peter, I don't have to try to tell you anything as I am relatively new to typewriter collecting. But I do love the deails of the old heavyweights and Underwoods.

            Frank's No.2 has the ridge around the lower frame casting just like the No.1s so I would think that it has to be a No.2. And it has, by my count, 42 keys vs 38 for the No.1.

            Steve Stephens
            San Anselmo, CA

            --- In TYPEWRITERS@yahoogroups.com, Peter Weil <pmweil@...> wrote:
            >
            > What is the exact serial number of the typewriter. The serial #'s of Wagner-Underwoods always have a suffix made up of a hyphen and the model number. For example, the serial #'s of my number 1 is
            >
            > 12543-1
            >
            > and that of my Wagner_Underwood # 4 is
            >
            > 11287-4
            >
            > The serial number should thus answer the question of the model number, even without any other information from front decals.
            >
            > By the way, the rocker ribbon switch is not an indicator f the model #. The Wagner-Underwood # 5 has no ribbon switch.
            >
            > Congratulations on your Underwood find.
            >
            > Peter
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > On Apr 13, 2013, at 8:23 PM, Steve Stephens wrote:
            >
            > > That sure is an Underwood No.2 with 42 keys and other features of the early Underwood No.1s. Very nice find; even has early or original ribbon spools. This is the first No.2 that I have seen photos of.
            > >
            > > Steve Stephens
            > > San Anselmo, CA
            > >
            > > --- In TYPEWRITERS@yahoogroups.com, frank notten <franknotten@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I just received what I believe is an Underwood 2. I bought it from an antiques dealer on the internet, who thought it was from the 1940s.
            > > >
            > > > It looks like an Underwood 1 (no see-saw ribbon color selector and a metal colored scale strip) but it has 42 keys instead of 38, so - according to Ernst Martin (1923), p. 218 - that would make it a #2. The serial number is 9732. There is no patent information on the back (no mention to Wagner, nothing).
            > > >
            > > > I haven't found a lot of information yet about this machine or its rarity, except for a message in this mailing list from 2002, claiming that only 2 other Underwood #2's were known:
            > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TYPEWRITERS/message/13360
            > > >
            > > > So, logically, I am very excited about this find. Is this really an Underwood 2? And if so, is it really that rare? Anyone else owns an Underwood 2? What is the serial number?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I've posted some pictures here:
            > > >
            > > > http://schrijfmachine.blogspot.nl/2013/04/did-i-just-receive-underwood-2.html
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Thanks to all,
            > > >
            > > > Frank
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Peter Weil
            Steve, since a large proportion of the products of all American typewriter companies, including Underwood, were made to be exported, I do not think that the
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 13, 2013
              Steve, since a large proportion of the products of all American typewriter companies, including Underwood, were made to be exported, I do not think that the absence of the 2 in the serial number can be explained that way, but I do not have an alternative explanation.

              Given the serial number problem and the absence of the decal with a model number on the spacebar guard (in front), it is difficult to figure out exactly what you have. There is another ppossible location for some Wagner-Underwoods that had two different serial numbers on them. IOne is located in the usual place--on the right side of the frame, beneath the margin stop support. The other is on the carriage--that one, if you have it, might clear all this up.

              Peter



              On Apr 13, 2013, at 9:50 PM, Steve Stephens wrote:

              > One would think that Peter but this No.2 has no "-2" that I can see on the serial number pad:
              > http://schrijfmachine.blogspot.nl/2013/04/did-i-just-receive-underwood-2.html
              > I think it is a foreign made or made for a foreign country machine. Would that explain the lack of the model number in the serial number?
              >
              > Not only the Wagner Underwoods but any Underwood up through 1909 has no ribbon selector ribbon rocker. Underwood was constantly improving things and making the newer models cheaper for us collectors years later. Hey Peter, I don't have to try to tell you anything as I am relatively new to typewriter collecting. But I do love the deails of the old heavyweights and Underwoods.
              >
              > Frank's No.2 has the ridge around the lower frame casting just like the No.1s so I would think that it has to be a No.2. And it has, by my count, 42 keys vs 38 for the No.1.
              >
              > Steve Stephens
              > San Anselmo, CA
              >
              > --- In TYPEWRITERS@yahoogroups.com, Peter Weil <pmweil@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > What is the exact serial number of the typewriter. The serial #'s of Wagner-Underwoods always have a suffix made up of a hyphen and the model number. For example, the serial #'s of my number 1 is
              > >
              > > 12543-1
              > >
              > > and that of my Wagner_Underwood # 4 is
              > >
              > > 11287-4
              > >
              > > The serial number should thus answer the question of the model number, even without any other information from front decals.
              > >
              > > By the way, the rocker ribbon switch is not an indicator f the model #. The Wagner-Underwood # 5 has no ribbon switch.
              > >
              > > Congratulations on your Underwood find.
              > >
              > > Peter
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > On Apr 13, 2013, at 8:23 PM, Steve Stephens wrote:
              > >
              > > > That sure is an Underwood No.2 with 42 keys and other features of the early Underwood No.1s. Very nice find; even has early or original ribbon spools. This is the first No.2 that I have seen photos of.
              > > >
              > > > Steve Stephens
              > > > San Anselmo, CA
              > > >
              > > > --- In TYPEWRITERS@yahoogroups.com, frank notten <franknotten@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > I just received what I believe is an Underwood 2. I bought it from an antiques dealer on the internet, who thought it was from the 1940s.
              > > > >
              > > > > It looks like an Underwood 1 (no see-saw ribbon color selector and a metal colored scale strip) but it has 42 keys instead of 38, so - according to Ernst Martin (1923), p. 218 - that would make it a #2. The serial number is 9732. There is no patent information on the back (no mention to Wagner, nothing).
              > > > >
              > > > > I haven't found a lot of information yet about this machine or its rarity, except for a message in this mailing list from 2002, claiming that only 2 other Underwood #2's were known:
              > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TYPEWRITERS/message/13360
              > > > >
              > > > > So, logically, I am very excited about this find. Is this really an Underwood 2? And if so, is it really that rare? Anyone else owns an Underwood 2? What is the serial number?
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > I've posted some pictures here:
              > > > >
              > > > > http://schrijfmachine.blogspot.nl/2013/04/did-i-just-receive-underwood-2.html
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks to all,
              > > > >
              > > > > Frank
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Steve Stephens
              Given the serial number problem and the absence of the decal with a model number on the spacebar guard (in front), it is difficult to figure out exactly what
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 13, 2013
                "Given the serial number problem and the absence of the decal with a model number
                on the spacebar guard (in front), it is difficult to figure out exactly what you
                have."

                Peter, I have not seen an Underwood No.1 or 2 with a decal on the spacebar guard on any of the 10 or so photos of original appearing No.1s with some period illustrations. Did the No. decal appear on the first Wagner Underwoods? My No.4 from 1902 (12435-4) has the No. 4 STANDARD decal on thspacebar guard.

                I would think that an early Underwood with the ridge around the lower frame casting would indicate only a No.1 or No.2 with the difference being the number of keys on each. It does seem unusual to not have a -2 on Frank's machine to indicate the model number.

                Steve Stephens


                --- In TYPEWRITERS@yahoogroups.com, Peter Weil <pmweil@...> wrote:
                >
                > Steve, since a large proportion of the products of all American typewriter companies, including Underwood, were made to be exported, I do not think that the absence of the 2 in the serial number can be explained that way, but I do not have an alternative explanation.
                >
                > Given the serial number problem and the absence of the decal with a model number on the spacebar guard (in front), it is difficult to figure out exactly what you have. There is another ppossible location for some Wagner-Underwoods that had two different serial numbers on them. IOne is located in the usual place--on the right side of the frame, beneath the margin stop support. The other is on the carriage--that one, if you have it, might clear all this up.
                >
                > Peter
                >
                >
                >
                > On Apr 13, 2013, at 9:50 PM, Steve Stephens wrote:
                >
                > > One would think that Peter but this No.2 has no "-2" that I can see on the serial number pad:
                > > http://schrijfmachine.blogspot.nl/2013/04/did-i-just-receive-underwood-2.html
                > > I think it is a foreign made or made for a foreign country machine. Would that explain the lack of the model number in the serial number?
                > >
                > > Not only the Wagner Underwoods but any Underwood up through 1909 has no ribbon selector ribbon rocker. Underwood was constantly improving things and making the newer models cheaper for us collectors years later. Hey Peter, I don't have to try to tell you anything as I am relatively new to typewriter collecting. But I do love the deails of the old heavyweights and Underwoods.
                > >
                > > Frank's No.2 has the ridge around the lower frame casting just like the No.1s so I would think that it has to be a No.2. And it has, by my count, 42 keys vs 38 for the No.1.
                > >
                > > Steve Stephens
                > > San Anselmo, CA
                > >
                > > --- In TYPEWRITERS@yahoogroups.com, Peter Weil <pmweil@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > What is the exact serial number of the typewriter. The serial #'s of Wagner-Underwoods always have a suffix made up of a hyphen and the model number. For example, the serial #'s of my number 1 is
                > > >
                > > > 12543-1
                > > >
                > > > and that of my Wagner_Underwood # 4 is
                > > >
                > > > 11287-4
                > > >
                > > > The serial number should thus answer the question of the model number, even without any other information from front decals.
                > > >
                > > > By the way, the rocker ribbon switch is not an indicator f the model #. The Wagner-Underwood # 5 has no ribbon switch.
                > > >
                > > > Congratulations on your Underwood find.
                > > >
                > > > Peter
                > > >
              • Alan Seaver
                Let s consider this: when it was first released, the Remington Standard No.7 was simply a European version of the No.6 with extra accent keys. Perhaps very
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 13, 2013
                  Let's consider this: when it was first released, the Remington Standard No.7 was simply a European version of the No.6 with extra accent keys. Perhaps very early on the Underwood No.2 was nothing more than the European variant of the No.1, and as such did not have a separate model number suffix in the serial number. A pre-No.2, if you will.

                  I concur that the machine's physical characteristics can only mean that it is a No.2, or what became known as the No.2. It looks like it was refinished at some time in its life and its keys replaced.

                  ~Alan

                  On Apr 13, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Steve Stephens wrote:

                  > "Given the serial number problem and the absence of the decal with a model number
                  > on the spacebar guard (in front), it is difficult to figure out exactly what you
                  > have."
                  >
                  > Peter, I have not seen an Underwood No.1 or 2 with a decal on the spacebar guard on any of the 10 or so photos of original appearing No.1s with some period illustrations. Did the No. decal appear on the first Wagner Underwoods? My No.4 from 1902 (12435-4) has the No. 4 STANDARD decal on thspacebar guard.
                  >
                  > I would think that an early Underwood with the ridge around the lower frame casting would indicate only a No.1 or No.2 with the difference being the number of keys on each. It does seem unusual to not have a -2 on Frank's machine to indicate the model number.
                  >
                  > Steve Stephens
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • frank notten
                  The exact number is 9732, and it is stamped in three places: the usual place under the platen, on the carriage and next to one of the feet. There is no suffix.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 13, 2013
                    The exact number is 9732, and it is stamped in three places: the usual place under the platen, on the carriage and next to one of the feet. There is no suffix. Or at least, there is no hyphen. 
                    According the "Liste der Herstellungsdaten" from Burghagen, 8th edition, the SN's of the Underwood 2 go only to 1000.
                    The cushion upon which the types rest is the patented one from 1903... But of course that could have been applied later (the machine seems re-painted as well).


                    ________________________________
                    De: Peter Weil <pmweil@...>
                    Para: TYPEWRITERS@yahoogroups.com
                    Enviado: Domingo 14 de abril de 2013 3:32
                    Asunto: Re: [TYPEWRITERS] Re: Underwood 2?



                     
                    What is the exact serial number of the typewriter. The serial #'s of Wagner-Underwoods always have a suffix made up of a hyphen and the model number. For example, the serial #'s of my number 1 is

                    12543-1

                    and that of my Wagner_Underwood # 4 is

                    11287-4

                    The serial number should thus answer the question of the model number, even without any other information from front decals.

                    By the way, the rocker ribbon switch is not an indicator f the model #. The Wagner-Underwood # 5 has no ribbon switch.

                    Congratulations on your Underwood find.

                    Peter

                    On Apr 13, 2013, at 8:23 PM, Steve Stephens wrote:

                    > That sure is an Underwood No.2 with 42 keys and other features of the early Underwood No.1s. Very nice find; even has early or original ribbon spools. This is the first No.2 that I have seen photos of.
                    >
                    > Steve Stephens
                    > San Anselmo, CA
                    >
                    > --- In TYPEWRITERS@yahoogroups.com, frank notten <franknotten@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I just received what I believe is an Underwood 2. I bought it from an antiques dealer on the internet, who thought it was from the 1940s.
                    > >
                    > > It looks like an Underwood 1 (no see-saw ribbon color selector and a metal colored scale strip) but it has 42 keys instead of 38, so - according to Ernst Martin (1923), p. 218 - that would make it a #2. The serial number is 9732. There is no patent information on the back (no mention to Wagner, nothing).
                    > >
                    > > I haven't found a lot of information yet about this machine or its rarity, except for a message in this mailing list from 2002, claiming that only 2 other Underwood #2's were known:
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TYPEWRITERS/message/13360
                    > >
                    > > So, logically, I am very excited about this find. Is this really an Underwood 2? And if so, is it really that rare? Anyone else owns an Underwood 2? What is the serial number?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I've posted some pictures here:
                    > >
                    > > http://schrijfmachine.blogspot.nl/2013/04/did-i-just-receive-underwood-2.html
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Thanks to all,
                    > >
                    > > Frank
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • frank notten
                    But the #1 also had a suffix, as far as I know. Indeed it was refinished (paint) and the keys don t look that old. Frank ________________________________ De:
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 13, 2013
                      But the #1 also had a suffix, as far as I know.
                      Indeed it was refinished (paint) and the keys don't look that old.
                      Frank


                      ________________________________
                      De: Alan Seaver <alan@...>
                      Para: TYPEWRITERS@yahoogroups.com
                      Enviado: Domingo 14 de abril de 2013 6:28
                      Asunto: Re: [TYPEWRITERS] Re: Underwood 2?



                       
                      Let's consider this: when it was first released, the Remington Standard No.7 was simply a European version of the No.6 with extra accent keys. Perhaps very early on the Underwood No.2 was nothing more than the European variant of the No.1, and as such did not have a separate model number suffix in the serial number. A pre-No.2, if you will.

                      I concur that the machine's physical characteristics can only mean that it is a No.2, or what became known as the No.2. It looks like it was refinished at some time in its life and its keys replaced.

                      ~Alan

                      On Apr 13, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Steve Stephens wrote:

                      > "Given the serial number problem and the absence of the decal with a model number
                      > on the spacebar guard (in front), it is difficult to figure out exactly what you
                      > have."
                      >
                      > Peter, I have not seen an Underwood No.1 or 2 with a decal on the spacebar guard on any of the 10 or so photos of original appearing No.1s with some period illustrations. Did the No. decal appear on the first Wagner Underwoods? My No.4 from 1902 (12435-4) has the No. 4 STANDARD decal on thspacebar guard.
                      >
                      > I would think that an early Underwood with the ridge around the lower frame casting would indicate only a No.1 or No.2 with the difference being the number of keys on each. It does seem unusual to not have a -2 on Frank's machine to indicate the model number.
                      >
                      > Steve Stephens
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Thomas Fürtig
                      Hi Frank, I have collected these Underwood model 2 serial numbers: 9732 (no suffix, lowest known sn of model 2) 11793 (no suffix, no markings on backside,
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 14, 2013
                        Hi Frank,

                        I have collected these Underwood model 2 serial numbers:
                        9732 (no suffix, lowest known sn of model 2)
                        11793 (no suffix, no markings on backside, this is my own machine!)
                        13475-2
                        13606-2
                        13950-2
                        and around 20 serial numbers of model 1.

                        As far as I know, the suffix was added only with nombers from 12.000 on.

                        Thomas


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: frank notten
                        To: groep iedereen
                        Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 4:39 PM
                        Subject: [TYPEWRITERS] Underwood 2?



                        I just received what I believe is an Underwood 2. I bought it from an antiques dealer on the internet, who thought it was from the 1940s.

                        It looks like an Underwood 1 (no see-saw ribbon color selector and a metal colored scale strip) but it has 42 keys instead of 38, so - according to Ernst Martin (1923), p. 218 - that would make it a #2. The serial number is 9732. There is no patent information on the back (no mention to Wagner, nothing).

                        I haven't found a lot of information yet about this machine or its rarity, except for a message in this mailing list from 2002, claiming that only 2 other Underwood #2's were known:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TYPEWRITERS/message/13360

                        So, logically, I am very excited about this find. Is this really an Underwood 2? And if so, is it really that rare? Anyone else owns an Underwood 2? What is the serial number?

                        I've posted some pictures here:

                        http://schrijfmachine.blogspot.nl/2013/04/did-i-just-receive-underwood-2.html

                        Thanks to all,

                        Frank

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • frank notten
                        Hi Thomas, thanks a lot, that is exactly the kind of information I was hoping for! Just a few questions more, I hope you can help: - Does your Underwood 2 have
                        Message 11 of 13 , Apr 14, 2013
                          Hi Thomas, thanks a lot, that is exactly the kind of information I was hoping for! Just a few questions more, I hope you can help:
                          - Does your Underwood 2 have the 1903 patented cushion under the types?
                          - Does your machine have 3 matching serial numbers? I ask because according to Lippman (1992), p. 210, these serial numbers are different, while at my machine, they are the same.
                          - When you write that suffixes were added after #12000, you mean for both the Underwood 1 and 2, or only the number 2?
                          I would also appreciate it a lot if you would send me some pictures (from all sides) of your machine, so we can compare.
                          Thanks again for the information!

                          Greetings,
                          Frank



                          ________________________________
                          De: Thomas Fürtig <tom@...>
                          Para: TYPEWRITERS@yahoogroups.com
                          Enviado: Domingo 14 de abril de 2013 16:58
                          Asunto: Re: [TYPEWRITERS] Underwood 2?



                           

                          Hi Frank,

                          I have collected these Underwood model 2 serial numbers:
                          9732 (no suffix, lowest known sn of model 2)
                          11793 (no suffix, no markings on backside, this is my own machine!)
                          13475-2
                          13606-2
                          13950-2
                          and around 20 serial numbers of model 1.

                          As far as I know, the suffix was added only with nombers from 12.000 on.

                          Thomas

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: frank notten
                          To: groep iedereen
                          Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 4:39 PM
                          Subject: [TYPEWRITERS] Underwood 2?

                          I just received what I believe is an Underwood 2. I bought it from an antiques dealer on the internet, who thought it was from the 1940s.

                          It looks like an Underwood 1 (no see-saw ribbon color selector and a metal colored scale strip) but it has 42 keys instead of 38, so - according to Ernst Martin (1923), p. 218 - that would make it a #2. The serial number is 9732. There is no patent information on the back (no mention to Wagner, nothing).

                          I haven't found a lot of information yet about this machine or its rarity, except for a message in this mailing list from 2002, claiming that only 2 other Underwood #2's were known:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TYPEWRITERS/message/13360

                          So, logically, I am very excited about this find. Is this really an Underwood 2? And if so, is it really that rare? Anyone else owns an Underwood 2? What is the serial number?

                          I've posted some pictures here:

                          http://schrijfmachine.blogspot.nl/2013/04/did-i-just-receive-underwood-2.html

                          Thanks to all,

                          Frank

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Steve Stephens
                          Frank and Thomas, if it wouldn t be too much trouble I would love to have some photos of your Underwood No. 1s or 2s for my files. My earliest is a No. 4
                          Message 12 of 13 , Apr 14, 2013
                            Frank and Thomas, if it wouldn't be too much trouble I would love to have some photos of your Underwood No. 1s or 2s for my files. My earliest is a No. 4 from 1902 and I would be happy to send photos if they would be of interest.

                            If the Nos. 1 and 2 were discontinued in 1900 or 1901 would they have the 1903 patented cushion under the typeslugs? I guess that they could if it took some time, which is common, for the patent to be granted after being applied for or after the first use of an invention.

                            No.1 ser. 12997-1 was on ebay a year or two ago. I have photos of that machine and the serial number does have the -1.

                            As for the three serial numbers on the early Underwoods matching I find that they do on my No.4. I think it may have been with the introduction of the No.3 with its larger and different frame than the 4 and 5 used, the numbers may have started to diverge when there were to different frames to number. The serial numbers all must have been the same while only one frame was being made.

                            Wagner-Underwood No.4 (Wagner Typewriter Co.) Standard Typewriter Serial No. 12435-4 (1902) Left front foot ser. no. under foot is 13419, Ser. no. under nickeled cover at right of platen is 13419 also.

                            Steve Stephens
                            San Anselmo, CA

                            --- In TYPEWRITERS@yahoogroups.com, frank notten <franknotten@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Thomas, thanks a lot, that is exactly the kind of information I was hoping for! Just a few questions more, I hope you can help:
                            > - Does your Underwood 2 have the 1903 patented cushion under the types?
                            > - Does your machine have 3 matching serial numbers? I ask because according to Lippman (1992), p. 210, these serial numbers are different, while at my machine, they are the same.
                            > - When you write that suffixes were added after #12000, you mean for both the Underwood 1 and 2, or only the number 2?
                            > I would also appreciate it a lot if you would send me some pictures (from all sides) of your machine, so we can compare.
                            > Thanks again for the information!
                            >
                            > Greetings,
                            > Frank
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > De: Thomas Fürtig <tom@...>
                            > Para: TYPEWRITERS@yahoogroups.com
                            > Enviado: Domingo 14 de abril de 2013 16:58
                            > Asunto: Re: [TYPEWRITERS] Underwood 2?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            > Hi Frank,
                            >
                            > I have collected these Underwood model 2 serial numbers:
                            > 9732 (no suffix, lowest known sn of model 2)
                            > 11793 (no suffix, no markings on backside, this is my own machine!)
                            > 13475-2
                            > 13606-2
                            > 13950-2
                            > and around 20 serial numbers of model 1.
                            >
                            > As far as I know, the suffix was added only with nombers from 12.000 on.
                            >
                            > Thomas
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: frank notten
                            > To: groep iedereen
                            > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 4:39 PM
                            > Subject: [TYPEWRITERS] Underwood 2?
                            >
                            > I just received what I believe is an Underwood 2. I bought it from an antiques dealer on the internet, who thought it was from the 1940s.
                            >
                            > It looks like an Underwood 1 (no see-saw ribbon color selector and a metal colored scale strip) but it has 42 keys instead of 38, so - according to Ernst Martin (1923), p. 218 - that would make it a #2. The serial number is 9732. There is no patent information on the back (no mention to Wagner, nothing).
                            >
                            > I haven't found a lot of information yet about this machine or its rarity, except for a message in this mailing list from 2002, claiming that only 2 other Underwood #2's were known:
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TYPEWRITERS/message/13360
                            >
                            > So, logically, I am very excited about this find. Is this really an Underwood 2? And if so, is it really that rare? Anyone else owns an Underwood 2? What is the serial number?
                            >
                            > I've posted some pictures here:
                            >
                            > http://schrijfmachine.blogspot.nl/2013/04/did-i-just-receive-underwood-2.html
                            >
                            > Thanks to all,
                            >
                            > Frank
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • rpolt45232
                            Congratulations to Frank on his excellent find! Readers may be interested in this blog post where I compare some different Underwood models, including a no. 1:
                            Message 13 of 13 , Apr 15, 2013
                              Congratulations to Frank on his excellent find!

                              Readers may be interested in this blog post where I compare some different Underwood models, including a no. 1:

                              http://writingball.blogspot.com/2013/01/underwood-family-reunion.html

                              Richard
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