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Re: An Offer Regarding Solaris

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  • Stephen Sankarsingh
    The GUI is gnome, I don t use Linux for its GUI so I don t care what the GUI can do. From the screenshots I also saw that it has a packet manager so nothing
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 8, 2009
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      The GUI is gnome, I don't use Linux for its GUI so I don't care what the GUI can do. From the screenshots I also saw that it has a packet manager so nothing interesting there either.

      I am interested in the differences in the file system, and the differences in commands and common command line functionality. Since so much was said about dtrace, I want to see what you'd use it for. Linux has strace, I don't know if it's similar.

      /Stephen

      --- In TTLUG@yahoogroups.com, Shivan Jaikaran <shivanj@...> wrote:
      >
      > I guess I would like to see a comparison of what Solaris can do in the
      > Desktop environment with common tasks that can be done on Ubuntu and
      > Windows.
      >
      > i would also like to see:
      >
      > - how to install/uninstall new software
      > - what Solaris has to offer that is different from Ubuntu
      >
      >
      > Regards,
      > Shivan Jaikaran
      > http://www.shivanjaikaran.com/blog
      >
      >
      >
      > 2009/4/8 Khyron <khyron4eva@...>:
      > >
      > >
      > > And just to be clear, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let us know what you want
      > > to know. The goal here is to introduce as many people to the yumminess
      > > known as Solaris, and get you up and running ASAP. Your input will guide
      > > what material gets covered in this event. Speak up and let us know how we
      > > can help you learn what you want to learn! Garth will be presenting it, as
      > > mentioned.
      > >
      > > I've only received 1 response to the survey, and I will work with that for
      > > now.
      > > I guess a survey site is in order. :\
      > >
      > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Garth Lezama <garth@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Claude and I are in the process of doing a intro to Solaris for linux
      > >> users. We will be having a meetup as soon as the content is completed.
      > >> Stay tuned.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Ray Dookie
      > >> <raydookie@...<raydookie%40gmail.com>>
      > >> wrote:
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > http://www.opensolaris.com/get/index.jsp
      > >> >
      > >> > and here are some screenshots
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >>
      > >> http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.php?linux_distribution_sm=OpenSolaris%202008.11
      > >> >
      > >> > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Khyron
      > >> > <khyron4eva@...<khyron4eva%40gmail.com>>
      > >> wrote:
      > >> >
      > >> >>
      > >> >>
      > >> >> But are you at all *curious* about Solaris?
      > >> >>
      > >> >> As for using a survey site, maybe. However, that seemed a bit much for
      > >> >> a
      > >> >> simple set of questions. We'll see how the responses look. I've got one
      > >> so
      > >> >>
      > >> >> far.
      > >> >>
      > >> >> As for the demo, that is something else Garth and I discussed, and
      > >> >> we're
      > >> >> in
      > >> >> the process of planning such an event. Watch for it.
      > >> >>
      > >> >>
      > >> >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Shivan Jaikaran
      > >> >> <shivanj@... <shivanj%40gmail.com><shivanj%40gmail.com>>
      > >> >> wrote:
      > >> >>
      > >> >> > I have never actually used Solaris...much less ever seen it.
      > >> >> >
      > >> >> > You might get a better tally of results if you use surveymonkey to do
      > >> >> > your feedback survey.
      > >> >> >
      > >> >> > http://www.surveymonkey.com
      > >> >> >
      > >> >> > Also, for those of us in the group who have never met Solaris, maybe
      > >> >> > a
      > >> >> > demo is in order? Any volunteers to do this?
      > >> >> >
      > >> >> > Regards,
      > >> >> > Shivan Jaikaran
      > >> >> > http://www.shivanjaikaran.com/blog
      > >> >> >
      > >> >> > 2009/4/8 khyron4eva <khyron4eva@... <khyron4eva%40gmail.com>
      > >> >> > <khyron4eva%40gmail.com><khyron4eva%
      > >> >> 40gmail.com>>:
      > >> >>
      > >> >> >
      > >> >> > > Since this seems to be a hot button topic, and there does seem to
      > >> >> > > be
      > >> >> > > some genuine interest, I am extending this to the community for
      > >> >> > > your
      > >> >> > > thoughts. First, I'd like to briefly explain how I came to this.
      > >> >> > >
      > >> >> > > Last night, Garth and I had an IM convo about the Solaris vs. Linux
      > >> >> > > thread. Basically, we'd both like to see more knowledge and less
      > >> dogma
      > >> >> > > when it comes to Solaris. If Solaris is the right tool for you and
      > >> >> > > your
      > >> >> > > project, then we like it. If not, such is life. However, we want
      > >> >> > > people
      > >> >> > to
      > >> >> > > make these determinations based on reason, logic, facts, and data
      > >> NOT
      > >> >> > > on outdated experiences, assumptions, hearsay, and whatever else is
      > >> >> > > going on inside their own heads. We want this conversation to exist
      > >> in
      > >> >> > > the world of reality. We think, on that basis, Solaris can find a
      > >> >> > > comfortable niche inside the world of IT in Trinidad, if not a
      > >> >> > > place
      > >> >> > > at
      > >> >> > the
      > >> >> > > table with Linux.
      > >> >> > >
      > >> >> > > That said, I would like to know your answers to the following
      > >> >> questions.
      > >> >> > > If you choose to answer anonymously, that's fine, just make sure to
      > >> >> > > reply directly to me. However, I think the entire community can
      > >> >> > > benefit
      > >> >> > > from any and all answers to these questions. There is still a place
      > >> >> > > for
      > >> >> > OS
      > >> >> > > competition. Please be honest and authentic with your answers, as
      > >> >> > > anything else serves no one. (It actually disrespects the community
      > >> to
      > >> >> > > lie to it.)
      > >> >> > >
      > >> >> > > 1. What keeps you from trying Solaris? What has stopped you, either
      > >> >> > > in the past or now in the present, from installing Solaris for
      > >> either
      > >> >> > > yourself or a customer?
      > >> >> > >
      > >> >> > > 2. What would you like to know about Solaris that you don't already
      > >> >> > > know? Maybe I can be of service in this regard, or bring to bear
      > >> >> > > resources to help you learn those things so you can make an
      > >> >> > > informed
      > >> >> > > decision.
      > >> >> > >
      > >> >> > > 3. What things are important to you in whatever OS you choose for
      > >> >> > > [a] personal use and [b] commercial/business use?
      > >> >> > >
      > >> >> > > 4. What would you like to see in Solaris that you don't THINK is
      > >> >> > > there?
      > >> >> > > Basically, what have you heard that Solaris lacks (without seeing
      > >> >> > > proof
      > >> >> > > of such lacking) that has kept you from moving forward with it?
      > >> >> > >
      > >> >> > > I look forward to as many answers as possible!
      > >> >> > >
      > >> >> > > P.S.: Join our group on Facebook. This is what it exists for!
      > >> >> > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=62426200148
      > >> >> > >
      > >> >> > > </shameless plug>
      > >> >> > > <!-- because shame is overrated -->
      > >> >> > >
      > >> >> > >
      > >> >> >
      > >> >> >
      > >> >>
      > >> >> --
      > >> >> "You can choose your friends, you can choose the deals." - Equity
      > >> Private
      > >> >>
      > >> >> AlphaGuy - http://alphaguy.blogspot.com
      > >> >> On Twitter - @khyron4eva
      > >> >>
      > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >> >>
      > >> >>
      > >> >>
      > >> >
      > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >>
      > >> --
      > >> Best Regards,
      > >>
      > >> Garth Lezama
      > >> Business/IT Consultant
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > > --
      > > "You can choose your friends, you can choose the deals." - Equity Private
      > >
      > > AlphaGuy - http://alphaguy.blogspot.com
      > > On Twitter - @khyron4eva
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Khyron
      *Disclaimer:* I know Theo and Dale. Theo is the organizer of the Baltimore-Washington OpenSolaris User Group, of which I am a member. (Find reports about our
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 11, 2009
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        *Disclaimer:* I know Theo and Dale. Theo is the organizer of the
        Baltimore-Washington OpenSolaris User Group, of which I am a member.
        (Find reports about our 2nd meeting, being held this coming Wed, 15 Apr,
        at http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=62426200148). Dale
        is one of the best engineers I ever worked with, going back to my first job
        at
        DIGEX, Inc. ( > Digex, Inc. > MCI Enterprise Hosting > Verizon Business IP
        Application Hosting, where I work now). Neither of these guys are fanboys,
        and they both believe in being (brutally) honest. They're both also
        extremely
        competent, and they've been in this field for a long time and have seen a
        lot
        of things. Dale, in particular, has probably seen more Solaris brokenness
        than anyone I know.



        The following is my response to Stephen Sankarsingh. I will respond to the
        others in due time. Hopefully, I can be a *bit* less thorough when I do.

        *WARNING: This is loooong!*



        *DTrace:*

        Ok...

        strace(8) is NOTHING LIKE DTrace (and the proper way to write DTrace, as
        the name, is DTrace; if talking about the binary, dtrace).

        If you go back through my earlier e-mails, you'll see that strace(8) and
        ltrace(8) are functionally similar to truss(1) on Solaris. Here's the
        truss(1) man
        page from docs.sun.com:

        http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-5165/truss-1?l=en&a=view&q=truss

        Compare that to the man pages of strace(8) and ltrace(8). Go ahead. I'll
        wait...

        http://linux.die.net/man/1/strace & http://linux.die.net/man/1/ltrace

        And if you search for "strace" on the following page, you'll see again that
        it
        functions like truss(1).

        http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/system.html

        You should see that truss(1) is capable of much more than strace(8) and
        ltrace(8). DTrace takes introspection to a whole new level.

        Now here's the dtrace(1M) man page:

        http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-2240/dtrace-1m?l=en&a=view&q=dtrace

        Ok, now that you're back, watch this video about DTrace. It's being run on
        MacOS X (because Apple and The FreeBSD Project have ported DTrace into
        their OSes). This video was created by a MacOS X developer I follow on
        Twitter. Functionally, everything he shows works on Solaris, but this was
        the
        easiest video for me to dig up since I've shown it to others.

        http://cocoasamurai.blogspot.com/2008/05/dtrace-for-cocoa-developers.html

        See http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_at_google for a long video (1 h
        18 m) about DTrace. If you don't want to sit through all of the comp sci
        theory
        stuff, jump to about the 50 minute mark and watch through the end.

        Here's some stuff from Bryan Cantrill's blog; he's one of the lead
        developers/architects of DTrace.

        http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_leopard_and_the_business

        http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_on_qnx

        http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_on_linux

        http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_on_mac_os_x

        http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_on_freebsd_update

        http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_and_php_demonstrated

        http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_safety

        http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/using_dtrace_to_understand_gnome

        Here's some more on DTrace probes in Ruby (courtesy of Joyent) and in
        PostgreSQL (courtesy of OmniTI). Rails is instrumented too, for the fanboi
        crowd:

        http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_at_joyent

        http://joyeur.com/2007/04/24/solaris-dtrace-and-rails

        http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/137-DTrace-and-Apache.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/137-DTrace-and-Apache.html>

        http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/35-dtrace-instrumenting-user-space.html

        A presentation from Theo about DTrace, and some scripts he's written to do
        the things in the presentation. (It was a live demo.)

        http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/123-OSCON2008-Presentation.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/123-OSCON2008-Presentation.html>

        Another presentation on DTrace w/ PostgreSQL from Theo.

        http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/111-PostgreSQL-Looking-under-the-hood-with-Solaris.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/111-PostgreSQL-Looking-under-the-hood-with-Solaris.html>

        NOTE: I just found this quote which perfectly sums this all up. "*If you
        cannot observe the problem, you cannot fix it."* This is why having the
        tools is important, because if you don't run into problems with your OS, you

        definitely aren't doing anything new, interesting or complex/advanced.



        *ZFS:*

        As for the filesystem, the default filesystem on Solaris is UFS. (Actually,
        its
        a UFS2 based OS, if you've read any of the books about the history of BSD
        by Marshall Kirkpatrick, you should know this filesystem *very* well.) Of
        course, Sun has made modifications and evolved the filesystem over time,
        the most noticeable being filesystem journaling (which has saved me
        numerous times).

        For the trolls, yes, I know ext3 does journaling too, and it has saved me on

        Linux too.

        Now, Solaris/OpenSolaris/Solaris Express also have ZFS. ZFS is a complete
        rethinking of how the filesystem works. Check these:

        http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/welcome_to_zfs

        In later releases of Solaris Express, and eventually making its way into
        OpenSolaris and then Sun's Solaris (either a patch to 10, or a release, or
        into
        Solaris 11 - who knows when?) is ZFS as root. You can already do this with
        Solaris Express - install a ZFS pool as the root pool and create / on it -
        but it
        hasn't landed in OpenSolaris and Solaris 10 yet.

        More thoughts on ZFS from Theo.

        http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/114-ZFS.-Respect..html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/114-ZFS.-Respect..html>

        http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/92-PostgreSQL-warm-standby-on-ZFS-crack.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/92-PostgreSQL-warm-standby-on-ZFS-crack.html>



        *Other Solaris Features:*

        Here's a bunch of stuff about what's in (Open)Solaris that is worthwhile...

        http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/still_more_blog_sifting

        OpenSolaris for the Storage Admin by Dale Ghent...

        http://elektronkind.org/2008/07/opensolaris-2008-11-storage

        More from Dale... http://elektronkind.org/2007/04/more-linuxsolaris-fud-wars

        Some other cool stuff in recent OpenSolaris releases include Time Slider
        (sp?) which provides a graphical interface for managing ZFS filesystem
        snapshots. Conceptually, it is similar to Time Machine on MacOS X 10.5
        (aka Leopard) with a significant difference - no external drive is
        required. As
        long as your root filesystem is on ZFS, you can get this functionality, even
        in
        a single disk machine (though as cheap as disk is, having more than 1 disk
        for any but the most trivial of installations is crazy).

        Another cool one is the Boot Environment stuff. Again, this is due to ZFS.

        Say you want to perform an upgrade. Well, you want to be able to roll back
        your upgrade easily. Most of the time, on mirrored boot disks, you would do

        this with a convoluted process of [A] breaking the mirror, [B] booting off
        one
        of the mirrors, [C] upgrading it, [D] booting off the upgraded system and
        then
        [E] reattaching the other mirror and letting the disks resync. With
        beadm(1M),
        all you do is get your system to a stable state, then create a new boot
        environment (BE) as a golden master, then patch/upgrade your current live
        boot environment however you choose. After the upgrade is done, you boot.
        If something goes wrong, you simply boot from the golden master BE. When
        you create a new boot environment, it is automatically added to the GRUB
        configuration w/o any intervention on your part, and GRUB is perfectly
        configured to boot from it. However, a BE only boots by default if it is
        the
        active BE, set with "beadm activate". Finally, because beadm(1M) is based
        on ZFS snapshots, each boot environment you create uses the minimum
        disk space (if you're familiar with snapshots and how they work, this should

        make perfect sense; if not, ask me another time to explain it or maybe its a

        session for a Solaris meetup). So, in the case my best friend showed me
        yesterday, he created a golden-master BE on his laptop running OpenSolaris
        2008.11. Even though his complete OS install was several GiB in size, the
        golden-master BE consumed about 100 KiB on disk. Almost free. BEs can
        also be mounted and upgraded, just any good snapshot can, then you boot
        from the upgraded BE. If there's a problem, just boot from the previous BE.

        The heavy lifting of getting the GRUB config just so is done by beadm(1M).
        Read more at:

        http://dlc.sun.com/osol/docs/content/2008.11/snapupgrade/snap3.html



        *Command Differences (?):*

        As for differences in commands, please be specific. Most of the differences

        are going to be in things like the help system, as I already described. The

        functions of /usr/bin/ps and /usr/ucb/ps are similar - they both list
        process
        status information. The former does so in System V format, using System V
        options, while /usr/ucb/ps is BSD derived and works like ps(1) on SunOS 4,
        F/N/O-BSD or GNU/Linux. (In fact, the GNU "ps" command will accept both
        System V options *AND* BSD options. Try it, or check the docs.) So there
        really are no "functional" differences to any of the commands on Solaris, in

        the fundamental sense. So unless you had something else in mind that you
        can articulate in a different way, I'm not sure how to answer that. Unix is
        Unix.
        If you know any Unix-like system, you have 70-80% of what you need on any
        other Unix-like system. (Where real certified UNIX is a subset of
        Unix-like.)

        So I would say there aren't any real functional differences in any real
        sense.
        It all comes down to implementation differences, but even those are minor
        because they are well known and documented. The BSD vs. System V vs.
        GNU "differences" (aka "features") just are what they are.



        *More Examples:*

        Theo's blog post on moving from RHEL 4 to Solaris 10 for a 1+ TiB
        PostgreSQL database. Circa 2006.

        http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/77-Choosing-Solaris-10-over-Linux.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/77-Choosing-Solaris-10-over-Linux.html>

        http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/74-PostgreSQL-performance-through-the-eyes-of-DTrace.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/74-PostgreSQL-performance-through-the-eyes-of-DTrace.html>

        Theo's bad experience with strace(8)...

        http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/46-Beware-of-strace.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/46-Beware-of-strace.html>

        Theo on crash dumps, which are missing from Linux w/o work, or have some
        crazy/odd implementations. (RHEL's is horrible. I need real crash dumps to

        a local filesystem, not network dumps where I need to misappropriate a box
        to take the dump b/c I didn't plan on it ahead of time!)

        http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/44-PANIC!-Linux,-FreeBSD-and-Solaris.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/44-PANIC%21-Linux,-FreeBSD-and-Solaris.html>


        *
        More References:*

        Ben Rockwood's blog (Director of Systems @ Joyent)

        http://www.cuddletech.com/blog/



        *PostScript:*

        Everyone here knows about the Rosetta Stone for UNIX, right? If not, you
        should bookmark this. It allows you to select Unix-like OSes and compare
        functionality side-by-side; select the names from the list at the top left
        of the
        screen, then click on "Draw Table". http://bhami.com/rosetta.html


        On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 2:58 AM, Stephen Sankarsingh <stephentnt@...>wrote:

        >
        >
        > The GUI is gnome, I don't use Linux for its GUI so I don't care what the
        > GUI can do. From the screenshots I also saw that it has a packet manager so
        > nothing interesting there either.
        >
        > I am interested in the differences in the file system, and the differences
        > in commands and common command line functionality. Since so much was said
        > about dtrace, I want to see what you'd use it for. Linux has strace, I don't
        > know if it's similar.
        >
        > /Stephen
        >
        >

        > ___
        >



        --
        "You can choose your friends, you can choose the deals." - Equity Private

        AlphaGuy - http://alphaguy.blogspot.com
        On Twitter - @khyron4eva


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Khyron
        Ooops! I made a mistake but I was too tired to catch it as I was writing this e-mail. That s what I get for staying awake for 31 straight hours. : I
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 11, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Ooops!

          I made a mistake but I was too tired to catch it as I was writing this
          e-mail. That's
          what I get for staying awake for 31 straight hours. :\

          I previously said:

          "In later releases of Solaris Express, and eventually making its way into
          OpenSolaris and then Sun's Solaris (either a patch to 10, or a release, or
          into
          Solaris 11 - who knows when?) is ZFS as root. You can already do this with
          Solaris Express - install a ZFS pool as the root pool and create / on it -
          but it
          hasn't landed in OpenSolaris and Solaris 10 yet."

          *The statement about / on ZFS is INCORRECT!!!*

          OpenSolaris currently supports / on ZFS as of 2008.11, if not earlier than
          that. I
          have seen it run live on a Gateway laptop. The same laptop I saw Time
          Slider and
          beadm(1M) running. That was a mistake of editing on my part. *Solaris
          Express
          and OpenSolaris DO SUPPORT / ON ZFS RIGHT NOW!!!*

          That is all.

          On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Khyron <khyron4eva@...> wrote:

          > *Disclaimer:* I know Theo and Dale. Theo is the organizer of the
          > Baltimore-Washington OpenSolaris User Group, of which I am a member.
          > (Find reports about our 2nd meeting, being held this coming Wed, 15 Apr,
          > at http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=62426200148). Dale
          > is one of the best engineers I ever worked with, going back to my first job
          > at
          > DIGEX, Inc. ( > Digex, Inc. > MCI Enterprise Hosting > Verizon Business IP
          > Application Hosting, where I work now). Neither of these guys are fanboys,
          >
          > and they both believe in being (brutally) honest. They're both also
          > extremely
          > competent, and they've been in this field for a long time and have seen a
          > lot
          > of things. Dale, in particular, has probably seen more Solaris brokenness
          > than anyone I know.
          >
          >
          >
          > The following is my response to Stephen Sankarsingh. I will respond to the
          >
          > others in due time. Hopefully, I can be a *bit* less thorough when I do.
          >
          > *WARNING: This is loooong!*
          >
          >
          >
          > *DTrace:*
          >
          > Ok...
          >
          > strace(8) is NOTHING LIKE DTrace (and the proper way to write DTrace, as
          > the name, is DTrace; if talking about the binary, dtrace).
          >
          > If you go back through my earlier e-mails, you'll see that strace(8) and
          > ltrace(8) are functionally similar to truss(1) on Solaris. Here's the
          > truss(1) man
          > page from docs.sun.com:
          >
          > http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-5165/truss-1?l=en&a=view&q=truss
          >
          > Compare that to the man pages of strace(8) and ltrace(8). Go ahead. I'll
          > wait...
          >
          > http://linux.die.net/man/1/strace & http://linux.die.net/man/1/ltrace
          >
          > And if you search for "strace" on the following page, you'll see again that
          > it
          > functions like truss(1).
          >
          > http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/system.html
          >
          > You should see that truss(1) is capable of much more than strace(8) and
          > ltrace(8). DTrace takes introspection to a whole new level.
          >
          > Now here's the dtrace(1M) man page:
          >
          > http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-2240/dtrace-1m?l=en&a=view&q=dtrace
          >
          > Ok, now that you're back, watch this video about DTrace. It's being run on
          >
          > MacOS X (because Apple and The FreeBSD Project have ported DTrace into
          > their OSes). This video was created by a MacOS X developer I follow on
          > Twitter. Functionally, everything he shows works on Solaris, but this was
          > the
          > easiest video for me to dig up since I've shown it to others.
          >
          > http://cocoasamurai.blogspot.com/2008/05/dtrace-for-cocoa-developers.html
          >
          > See http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_at_google for a long video (1 h
          > 18 m) about DTrace. If you don't want to sit through all of the comp sci
          > theory
          > stuff, jump to about the 50 minute mark and watch through the end.
          >
          > Here's some stuff from Bryan Cantrill's blog; he's one of the lead
          > developers/architects of DTrace.
          >
          > http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_leopard_and_the_business
          >
          > http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_on_qnx
          >
          > http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_on_linux
          >
          > http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_on_mac_os_x
          >
          > http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_on_freebsd_update
          >
          > http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_and_php_demonstrated
          >
          > http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_safety
          >
          > http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/using_dtrace_to_understand_gnome
          >
          > Here's some more on DTrace probes in Ruby (courtesy of Joyent) and in
          > PostgreSQL (courtesy of OmniTI). Rails is instrumented too, for the fanboi
          >
          > crowd:
          >
          > http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_at_joyent
          >
          > http://joyeur.com/2007/04/24/solaris-dtrace-and-rails
          >
          > http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/137-DTrace-and-Apache.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/137-DTrace-and-Apache.html>
          >
          > http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/35-dtrace-instrumenting-user-space.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/35-dtrace-instrumenting-user-space.html>
          >
          > A presentation from Theo about DTrace, and some scripts he's written to do
          > the things in the presentation. (It was a live demo.)
          >
          > http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/123-OSCON2008-Presentation.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/123-OSCON2008-Presentation.html>
          >
          > Another presentation on DTrace w/ PostgreSQL from Theo.
          >
          >
          > http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/111-PostgreSQL-Looking-under-the-hood-with-Solaris.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/111-PostgreSQL-Looking-under-the-hood-with-Solaris.html>
          >
          > NOTE: I just found this quote which perfectly sums this all up. "*If you
          > cannot observe the problem, you cannot fix it."* This is why having the
          > tools is important, because if you don't run into problems with your OS,
          > you
          > definitely aren't doing anything new, interesting or complex/advanced.
          >
          >
          >
          > *ZFS:*
          >
          > As for the filesystem, the default filesystem on Solaris is UFS. (Actually,
          > its
          > a UFS2 based OS, if you've read any of the books about the history of BSD
          > by Marshall Kirkpatrick, you should know this filesystem *very* well.) Of
          > course, Sun has made modifications and evolved the filesystem over time,
          > the most noticeable being filesystem journaling (which has saved me
          > numerous times).
          >
          > For the trolls, yes, I know ext3 does journaling too, and it has saved me
          > on
          > Linux too.
          >
          > Now, Solaris/OpenSolaris/Solaris Express also have ZFS. ZFS is a complete
          > rethinking of how the filesystem works. Check these:
          >
          > http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/welcome_to_zfs
          >
          > In later releases of Solaris Express, and eventually making its way into
          > OpenSolaris and then Sun's Solaris (either a patch to 10, or a release, or
          > into
          > Solaris 11 - who knows when?) is ZFS as root. You can already do this with
          >
          > Solaris Express - install a ZFS pool as the root pool and create / on it -
          > but it
          > hasn't landed in OpenSolaris and Solaris 10 yet.
          >
          > More thoughts on ZFS from Theo.
          >
          > http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/114-ZFS.-Respect..html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/114-ZFS.-Respect..html>
          >
          >
          > http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/92-PostgreSQL-warm-standby-on-ZFS-crack.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/92-PostgreSQL-warm-standby-on-ZFS-crack.html>
          >
          >
          >
          > *Other Solaris Features:*
          >
          > Here's a bunch of stuff about what's in (Open)Solaris that is worthwhile...
          >
          > http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/still_more_blog_sifting
          >
          > OpenSolaris for the Storage Admin by Dale Ghent...
          >
          > http://elektronkind.org/2008/07/opensolaris-2008-11-storage
          >
          > More from Dale...
          > http://elektronkind.org/2007/04/more-linuxsolaris-fud-wars
          >
          > Some other cool stuff in recent OpenSolaris releases include Time Slider
          > (sp?) which provides a graphical interface for managing ZFS filesystem
          > snapshots. Conceptually, it is similar to Time Machine on MacOS X 10.5
          > (aka Leopard) with a significant difference - no external drive is
          > required. As
          > long as your root filesystem is on ZFS, you can get this functionality,
          > even in
          > a single disk machine (though as cheap as disk is, having more than 1 disk
          > for any but the most trivial of installations is crazy).
          >
          > Another cool one is the Boot Environment stuff. Again, this is due to
          > ZFS.
          > Say you want to perform an upgrade. Well, you want to be able to roll back
          >
          > your upgrade easily. Most of the time, on mirrored boot disks, you would
          > do
          > this with a convoluted process of [A] breaking the mirror, [B] booting off
          > one
          > of the mirrors, [C] upgrading it, [D] booting off the upgraded system and
          > then
          > [E] reattaching the other mirror and letting the disks resync. With
          > beadm(1M),
          > all you do is get your system to a stable state, then create a new boot
          > environment (BE) as a golden master, then patch/upgrade your current live
          > boot environment however you choose. After the upgrade is done, you boot.
          >
          > If something goes wrong, you simply boot from the golden master BE. When
          > you create a new boot environment, it is automatically added to the GRUB
          > configuration w/o any intervention on your part, and GRUB is perfectly
          > configured to boot from it. However, a BE only boots by default if it is
          > the
          > active BE, set with "beadm activate". Finally, because beadm(1M) is based
          > on ZFS snapshots, each boot environment you create uses the minimum
          > disk space (if you're familiar with snapshots and how they work, this
          > should
          > make perfect sense; if not, ask me another time to explain it or maybe its
          > a
          > session for a Solaris meetup). So, in the case my best friend showed me
          > yesterday, he created a golden-master BE on his laptop running OpenSolaris
          > 2008.11. Even though his complete OS install was several GiB in size, the
          > golden-master BE consumed about 100 KiB on disk. Almost free. BEs can
          > also be mounted and upgraded, just any good snapshot can, then you boot
          > from the upgraded BE. If there's a problem, just boot from the previous
          > BE.
          > The heavy lifting of getting the GRUB config just so is done by beadm(1M).
          > Read more at:
          >
          > http://dlc.sun.com/osol/docs/content/2008.11/snapupgrade/snap3.html
          >
          >
          >
          > *Command Differences (?):*
          >
          > As for differences in commands, please be specific. Most of the
          > differences
          > are going to be in things like the help system, as I already described.
          > The
          > functions of /usr/bin/ps and /usr/ucb/ps are similar - they both list
          > process
          > status information. The former does so in System V format, using System V
          > options, while /usr/ucb/ps is BSD derived and works like ps(1) on SunOS 4,
          > F/N/O-BSD or GNU/Linux. (In fact, the GNU "ps" command will accept both
          > System V options *AND* BSD options. Try it, or check the docs.) So there
          > really are no "functional" differences to any of the commands on Solaris,
          > in
          > the fundamental sense. So unless you had something else in mind that you
          > can articulate in a different way, I'm not sure how to answer that. Unix
          > is Unix.
          > If you know any Unix-like system, you have 70-80% of what you need on any
          > other Unix-like system. (Where real certified UNIX is a subset of
          > Unix-like.)
          >
          > So I would say there aren't any real functional differences in any real
          > sense.
          > It all comes down to implementation differences, but even those are minor
          > because they are well known and documented. The BSD vs. System V vs.
          > GNU "differences" (aka "features") just are what they are.
          >
          >
          >
          > *More Examples:*
          >
          > Theo's blog post on moving from RHEL 4 to Solaris 10 for a 1+ TiB
          > PostgreSQL database. Circa 2006.
          >
          > http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/77-Choosing-Solaris-10-over-Linux.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/77-Choosing-Solaris-10-over-Linux.html>
          >
          >
          > http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/74-PostgreSQL-performance-through-the-eyes-of-DTrace.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/74-PostgreSQL-performance-through-the-eyes-of-DTrace.html>
          >
          > Theo's bad experience with strace(8)...
          >
          > http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/46-Beware-of-strace.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/46-Beware-of-strace.html>
          >
          > Theo on crash dumps, which are missing from Linux w/o work, or have some
          > crazy/odd implementations. (RHEL's is horrible. I need real crash dumps
          > to
          > a local filesystem, not network dumps where I need to misappropriate a box
          > to take the dump b/c I didn't plan on it ahead of time!)
          >
          >
          > http://lethargy.org/~jesus/archives/44-PANIC!-Linux,-FreeBSD-and-Solaris.html<http://lethargy.org/%7Ejesus/archives/44-PANIC%21-Linux,-FreeBSD-and-Solaris.html>
          >
          >
          > *
          > More References:*
          >
          > Ben Rockwood's blog (Director of Systems @ Joyent)
          >
          > http://www.cuddletech.com/blog/
          >
          >
          >
          > *PostScript:*
          >
          > Everyone here knows about the Rosetta Stone for UNIX, right? If not, you
          > should bookmark this. It allows you to select Unix-like OSes and compare
          > functionality side-by-side; select the names from the list at the top left
          > of the
          > screen, then click on "Draw Table". http://bhami.com/rosetta.html
          >
          >
          > On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 2:58 AM, Stephen Sankarsingh <stephentnt@...>wrote:
          >
          >>
          >>
          >> The GUI is gnome, I don't use Linux for its GUI so I don't care what the
          >> GUI can do. From the screenshots I also saw that it has a packet manager so
          >> nothing interesting there either.
          >>
          >> I am interested in the differences in the file system, and the differences
          >> in commands and common command line functionality. Since so much was said
          >> about dtrace, I want to see what you'd use it for. Linux has strace, I don't
          >> know if it's similar.
          >>
          >> /Stephen
          >>
          >>
          >
          >> ___
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > "You can choose your friends, you can choose the deals." - Equity Private
          >
          > AlphaGuy - http://alphaguy.blogspot.com
          > On Twitter - @khyron4eva
          >
          >


          --
          "You can choose your friends, you can choose the deals." - Equity Private

          AlphaGuy - http://alphaguy.blogspot.com
          On Twitter - @khyron4eva


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Khyron
          Ok, finally got a moment to respond to this. Like I said, my previous response should have covered a lot of the server ground and some of the base
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 12, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Ok, finally got a moment to respond to this. Like I said, my previous
            response should
            have covered a lot of the server ground and some of the base functionality
            that
            OpenSolaris offers. Via opensolaris.com, I came across this Ars Technica
            article that
            very quickly addresses the topics below, particularly what OpenSolaris
            offers vs.
            Ubuntu

            http://tr.im/iHoR [arstechnica.com - I'm not into Rick Rolling]

            More at the opensolaris.com Perspectives subsite...

            http://www.opensolaris.com/learn/perspectives/



            *Software Packaging:*

            As for the question of software packages, it appears that OpenSolaris
            supports both
            the original System V (and thus Solaris 2.x - Solaris 10) packaging system.
            You can
            manipulate this with the pkgadd, pkgrm, pkgtrans and other pkg(1) commands.

            OpenSolaris also includes the Image Packaging System (IPS) which is much
            more apt
            like (not that I've used apt personally). Find documentation here:

            http://dlc.sun.com/osol/docs/content/2008.11/IMGPACKAGESYS/new-user.html



            *Developers:*

            Doing a bit of digging yielded a bit of information on a tool called DLight,
            which looks
            to be Sun's answer to Apple's Instruments. For the unaware, MacOS X has
            included
            DTrace as part of the OS starting with OS X 10.5 (Leopard) and created a
            tool called
            Instruments to easily, graphically display DTrace probes and run DTrace
            scripts. DLight
            appears to do the same on Solaris 10 and OpenSolaris. It also appears to
            run on Linux
            although none of the DTrace functionality works since Linux doesn't have
            (and will
            never have, at this rate) DTrace built-in.

            See http://developers.sun.com/sunstudio/documentation/tutorials/dlight/ and
            http://www.apple.com/macosx/developertools/instruments.html



            HTH but let me know if there is something specific that you'd like to know
            that
            wasn't addressed. And remember, as one of my favorite bosses used to
            say,...

            "Asking the wrong questions is the leading cause of wrong answers."

            Cheers!


            On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Shivan Jaikaran <shivanj@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > I guess I would like to see a comparison of what Solaris can do in the
            > Desktop environment with common tasks that can be done on Ubuntu and
            > Windows.
            >
            > i would also like to see:
            >
            > - how to install/uninstall new software
            > - what Solaris has to offer that is different from Ubuntu
            >
            >
            > Regards,
            > Shivan Jaikaran
            > http://www.shivanjaikaran.com/blog
            >
            > 2009/4/8 Khyron <khyron4eva@... <khyron4eva%40gmail.com>>:
            > >
            > >
            > > And just to be clear, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let us know what you want
            > > to know. The goal here is to introduce as many people to the yumminess
            > > known as Solaris, and get you up and running ASAP. Your input will guide
            > > what material gets covered in this event. Speak up and let us know how we
            > > can help you learn what you want to learn! Garth will be presenting it,
            > as
            > > mentioned.
            > >
            > > I've only received 1 response to the survey, and I will work with that
            > for
            > > now.
            > > I guess a survey site is in order. :\
            > >
            > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Garth Lezama <garth@...<garth%40periweb.com>>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> Claude and I are in the process of doing a intro to Solaris for linux
            > >> users. We will be having a meetup as soon as the content is completed.
            > >> Stay tuned.
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Ray Dookie
            > >> <raydookie@... <raydookie%40gmail.com><raydookie%40gmail.com>>
            > >> wrote:
            > >> >
            > >> >
            > >> > http://www.opensolaris.com/get/index.jsp
            > >> >
            > >> > and here are some screenshots
            > >> >
            > >> >
            > >>
            > >>
            > http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.php?linux_distribution_sm=OpenSolaris%202008.11
            > >> >
            > >> > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Khyron
            > >> > <khyron4eva@... <khyron4eva%40gmail.com><khyron4eva%40gmail.com
            > >>
            > >> wrote:
            > >> >
            > >> >>
            > >> >>
            > >> >> But are you at all *curious* about Solaris?
            > >> >>
            > >> >> As for using a survey site, maybe. However, that seemed a bit much
            > for
            > >> >> a
            > >> >> simple set of questions. We'll see how the responses look. I've got
            > one
            > >> so
            > >> >>
            > >> >> far.
            > >> >>
            > >> >> As for the demo, that is something else Garth and I discussed, and
            > >> >> we're
            > >> >> in
            > >> >> the process of planning such an event. Watch for it.
            > >> >>
            > >> >>
            > >> >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Shivan Jaikaran
            > >> >> <shivanj@... <shivanj%40gmail.com> <shivanj%40gmail.com
            > ><shivanj%40gmail.com>>
            >
            > >> >> wrote:
            > >> >>
            > >> >> > I have never actually used Solaris...much less ever seen it.
            > >> >> >
            > >> >> > You might get a better tally of results if you use surveymonkey to
            > do
            > >> >> > your feedback survey.
            > >> >> >
            > >> >> > http://www.surveymonkey.com
            > >> >> >
            > >> >> > Also, for those of us in the group who have never met Solaris,
            > maybe
            > >> >> > a
            > >> >> > demo is in order? Any volunteers to do this?
            > >> >> >
            > >> >> > Regards,
            > >> >> > Shivan Jaikaran
            > >> >> > http://www.shivanjaikaran.com/blog
            > >> >> >
            > >> >> > 2009/4/8 khyron4eva <khyron4eva@... <khyron4eva%40gmail.com><khyron4eva%
            > 40gmail.com>
            > >> >> > <khyron4eva%40gmail.com><khyron4eva%
            > >> >> 40gmail.com>>:
            > >> >>
            > >> >> >
            > >> >> > > Since this seems to be a hot button topic, and there does seem to
            > >> >> > > be
            > >> >> > > some genuine interest, I am extending this to the community for
            > >> >> > > your
            > >> >> > > thoughts. First, I'd like to briefly explain how I came to this.
            > >> >> > >
            > >> >> > > Last night, Garth and I had an IM convo about the Solaris vs.
            > Linux
            > >> >> > > thread. Basically, we'd both like to see more knowledge and less
            > >> dogma
            > >> >> > > when it comes to Solaris. If Solaris is the right tool for you
            > and
            > >> >> > > your
            > >> >> > > project, then we like it. If not, such is life. However, we want
            > >> >> > > people
            > >> >> > to
            > >> >> > > make these determinations based on reason, logic, facts, and data
            > >> NOT
            > >> >> > > on outdated experiences, assumptions, hearsay, and whatever else
            > is
            > >> >> > > going on inside their own heads. We want this conversation to
            > exist
            > >> in
            > >> >> > > the world of reality. We think, on that basis, Solaris can find a
            > >> >> > > comfortable niche inside the world of IT in Trinidad, if not a
            > >> >> > > place
            > >> >> > > at
            > >> >> > the
            > >> >> > > table with Linux.
            > >> >> > >
            > >> >> > > That said, I would like to know your answers to the following
            > >> >> questions.
            > >> >> > > If you choose to answer anonymously, that's fine, just make sure
            > to
            > >> >> > > reply directly to me. However, I think the entire community can
            > >> >> > > benefit
            > >> >> > > from any and all answers to these questions. There is still a
            > place
            > >> >> > > for
            > >> >> > OS
            > >> >> > > competition. Please be honest and authentic with your answers, as
            > >> >> > > anything else serves no one. (It actually disrespects the
            > community
            > >> to
            > >> >> > > lie to it.)
            > >> >> > >
            > >> >> > > 1. What keeps you from trying Solaris? What has stopped you,
            > either
            > >> >> > > in the past or now in the present, from installing Solaris for
            > >> either
            > >> >> > > yourself or a customer?
            > >> >> > >
            > >> >> > > 2. What would you like to know about Solaris that you don't
            > already
            > >> >> > > know? Maybe I can be of service in this regard, or bring to bear
            > >> >> > > resources to help you learn those things so you can make an
            > >> >> > > informed
            > >> >> > > decision.
            > >> >> > >
            > >> >> > > 3. What things are important to you in whatever OS you choose for
            > >> >> > > [a] personal use and [b] commercial/business use?
            > >> >> > >
            > >> >> > > 4. What would you like to see in Solaris that you don't THINK is
            > >> >> > > there?
            > >> >> > > Basically, what have you heard that Solaris lacks (without seeing
            > >> >> > > proof
            > >> >> > > of such lacking) that has kept you from moving forward with it?
            > >> >> > >
            > >> >> > > I look forward to as many answers as possible!
            > >> >> > >
            > >> >> > > P.S.: Join our group on Facebook. This is what it exists for!
            > >> >> > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=62426200148
            > >> >> > >
            > >> >> > > </shameless plug>
            > >> >> > > <!-- because shame is overrated -->
            > >> >> > >
            > >> >> > >
            > >> >> >
            > >> >> >
            > >> >>
            > >> >> --
            > >> >> "You can choose your friends, you can choose the deals." - Equity
            > >> Private
            > >> >>
            > >> >> AlphaGuy - http://alphaguy.blogspot.com
            > >> >> On Twitter - @khyron4eva
            > >> >>
            > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >> >>
            > >> >>
            > >> >>
            > >> >
            > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >> >
            > >> >
            > >>
            > >> --
            > >> Best Regards,
            > >>
            > >> Garth Lezama
            > >> Business/IT Consultant
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > > --
            > > "You can choose your friends, you can choose the deals." - Equity Private
            > >
            > > AlphaGuy - http://alphaguy.blogspot.com
            > > On Twitter - @khyron4eva
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            >
            >



            --
            "You can choose your friends, you can choose the deals." - Equity Private

            AlphaGuy - http://alphaguy.blogspot.com
            On Twitter - @khyron4eva


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Stephen Sankarsingh
            Asking the wrong questions is the leading cause of wrong answers. Wish I read this email while I was by my old-school father-in-law in Guyana last weekend.
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 16, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              "Asking the wrong questions is the leading cause of wrong answers."

              Wish I read this email while I was by my old-school father-in-law in Guyana last weekend.

              /Stephen

              --- In TTLUG@yahoogroups.com, Khyron <khyron4eva@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ok, finally got a moment to respond to this. Like I said, my previous
              > response should
              > have covered a lot of the server ground and some of the base functionality
              > that
              > OpenSolaris offers. Via opensolaris.com, I came across this Ars Technica
              > article that
              > very quickly addresses the topics below, particularly what OpenSolaris
              > offers vs.
              > Ubuntu
              >
              > http://tr.im/iHoR [arstechnica.com - I'm not into Rick Rolling]
              >
              > More at the opensolaris.com Perspectives subsite...
              >
              > http://www.opensolaris.com/learn/perspectives/
              >
              >
              >
              > *Software Packaging:*
              >
              > As for the question of software packages, it appears that OpenSolaris
              > supports both
              > the original System V (and thus Solaris 2.x - Solaris 10) packaging system.
              > You can
              > manipulate this with the pkgadd, pkgrm, pkgtrans and other pkg(1) commands.
              >
              > OpenSolaris also includes the Image Packaging System (IPS) which is much
              > more apt
              > like (not that I've used apt personally). Find documentation here:
              >
              > http://dlc.sun.com/osol/docs/content/2008.11/IMGPACKAGESYS/new-user.html
              >
              >
              >
              > *Developers:*
              >
              > Doing a bit of digging yielded a bit of information on a tool called DLight,
              > which looks
              > to be Sun's answer to Apple's Instruments. For the unaware, MacOS X has
              > included
              > DTrace as part of the OS starting with OS X 10.5 (Leopard) and created a
              > tool called
              > Instruments to easily, graphically display DTrace probes and run DTrace
              > scripts. DLight
              > appears to do the same on Solaris 10 and OpenSolaris. It also appears to
              > run on Linux
              > although none of the DTrace functionality works since Linux doesn't have
              > (and will
              > never have, at this rate) DTrace built-in.
              >
              > See http://developers.sun.com/sunstudio/documentation/tutorials/dlight/ and
              > http://www.apple.com/macosx/developertools/instruments.html
              >
              >
              >
              > HTH but let me know if there is something specific that you'd like to know
              > that
              > wasn't addressed. And remember, as one of my favorite bosses used to
              > say,...
              >
              > "Asking the wrong questions is the leading cause of wrong answers."
              >
              > Cheers!
              >
              >
              > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Shivan Jaikaran <shivanj@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > I guess I would like to see a comparison of what Solaris can do in the
              > > Desktop environment with common tasks that can be done on Ubuntu and
              > > Windows.
              > >
              > > i would also like to see:
              > >
              > > - how to install/uninstall new software
              > > - what Solaris has to offer that is different from Ubuntu
              > >
              > >
              > > Regards,
              > > Shivan Jaikaran
              > > http://www.shivanjaikaran.com/blog
              > >
              > > 2009/4/8 Khyron <khyron4eva@... <khyron4eva%40gmail.com>>:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > And just to be clear, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let us know what you want
              > > > to know. The goal here is to introduce as many people to the yumminess
              > > > known as Solaris, and get you up and running ASAP. Your input will guide
              > > > what material gets covered in this event. Speak up and let us know how we
              > > > can help you learn what you want to learn! Garth will be presenting it,
              > > as
              > > > mentioned.
              > > >
              > > > I've only received 1 response to the survey, and I will work with that
              > > for
              > > > now.
              > > > I guess a survey site is in order. :\
              > > >
              > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Garth Lezama <garth@...<garth%40periweb.com>>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > >> Claude and I are in the process of doing a intro to Solaris for linux
              > > >> users. We will be having a meetup as soon as the content is completed.
              > > >> Stay tuned.
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Ray Dookie
              > > >> <raydookie@... <raydookie%40gmail.com><raydookie%40gmail.com>>
              > > >> wrote:
              > > >> >
              > > >> >
              > > >> > http://www.opensolaris.com/get/index.jsp
              > > >> >
              > > >> > and here are some screenshots
              > > >> >
              > > >> >
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.php?linux_distribution_sm=OpenSolaris%202008.11
              > > >> >
              > > >> > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Khyron
              > > >> > <khyron4eva@... <khyron4eva%40gmail.com><khyron4eva%40gmail.com
              > > >>
              > > >> wrote:
              > > >> >
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >> But are you at all *curious* about Solaris?
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >> As for using a survey site, maybe. However, that seemed a bit much
              > > for
              > > >> >> a
              > > >> >> simple set of questions. We'll see how the responses look. I've got
              > > one
              > > >> so
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >> far.
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >> As for the demo, that is something else Garth and I discussed, and
              > > >> >> we're
              > > >> >> in
              > > >> >> the process of planning such an event. Watch for it.
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Shivan Jaikaran
              > > >> >> <shivanj@... <shivanj%40gmail.com> <shivanj%40gmail.com
              > > ><shivanj%40gmail.com>>
              > >
              > > >> >> wrote:
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >> > I have never actually used Solaris...much less ever seen it.
              > > >> >> >
              > > >> >> > You might get a better tally of results if you use surveymonkey to
              > > do
              > > >> >> > your feedback survey.
              > > >> >> >
              > > >> >> > http://www.surveymonkey.com
              > > >> >> >
              > > >> >> > Also, for those of us in the group who have never met Solaris,
              > > maybe
              > > >> >> > a
              > > >> >> > demo is in order? Any volunteers to do this?
              > > >> >> >
              > > >> >> > Regards,
              > > >> >> > Shivan Jaikaran
              > > >> >> > http://www.shivanjaikaran.com/blog
              > > >> >> >
              > > >> >> > 2009/4/8 khyron4eva <khyron4eva@... <khyron4eva%40gmail.com><khyron4eva%
              > > 40gmail.com>
              > > >> >> > <khyron4eva%40gmail.com><khyron4eva%
              > > >> >> 40gmail.com>>:
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >> >
              > > >> >> > > Since this seems to be a hot button topic, and there does seem to
              > > >> >> > > be
              > > >> >> > > some genuine interest, I am extending this to the community for
              > > >> >> > > your
              > > >> >> > > thoughts. First, I'd like to briefly explain how I came to this.
              > > >> >> > >
              > > >> >> > > Last night, Garth and I had an IM convo about the Solaris vs.
              > > Linux
              > > >> >> > > thread. Basically, we'd both like to see more knowledge and less
              > > >> dogma
              > > >> >> > > when it comes to Solaris. If Solaris is the right tool for you
              > > and
              > > >> >> > > your
              > > >> >> > > project, then we like it. If not, such is life. However, we want
              > > >> >> > > people
              > > >> >> > to
              > > >> >> > > make these determinations based on reason, logic, facts, and data
              > > >> NOT
              > > >> >> > > on outdated experiences, assumptions, hearsay, and whatever else
              > > is
              > > >> >> > > going on inside their own heads. We want this conversation to
              > > exist
              > > >> in
              > > >> >> > > the world of reality. We think, on that basis, Solaris can find a
              > > >> >> > > comfortable niche inside the world of IT in Trinidad, if not a
              > > >> >> > > place
              > > >> >> > > at
              > > >> >> > the
              > > >> >> > > table with Linux.
              > > >> >> > >
              > > >> >> > > That said, I would like to know your answers to the following
              > > >> >> questions.
              > > >> >> > > If you choose to answer anonymously, that's fine, just make sure
              > > to
              > > >> >> > > reply directly to me. However, I think the entire community can
              > > >> >> > > benefit
              > > >> >> > > from any and all answers to these questions. There is still a
              > > place
              > > >> >> > > for
              > > >> >> > OS
              > > >> >> > > competition. Please be honest and authentic with your answers, as
              > > >> >> > > anything else serves no one. (It actually disrespects the
              > > community
              > > >> to
              > > >> >> > > lie to it.)
              > > >> >> > >
              > > >> >> > > 1. What keeps you from trying Solaris? What has stopped you,
              > > either
              > > >> >> > > in the past or now in the present, from installing Solaris for
              > > >> either
              > > >> >> > > yourself or a customer?
              > > >> >> > >
              > > >> >> > > 2. What would you like to know about Solaris that you don't
              > > already
              > > >> >> > > know? Maybe I can be of service in this regard, or bring to bear
              > > >> >> > > resources to help you learn those things so you can make an
              > > >> >> > > informed
              > > >> >> > > decision.
              > > >> >> > >
              > > >> >> > > 3. What things are important to you in whatever OS you choose for
              > > >> >> > > [a] personal use and [b] commercial/business use?
              > > >> >> > >
              > > >> >> > > 4. What would you like to see in Solaris that you don't THINK is
              > > >> >> > > there?
              > > >> >> > > Basically, what have you heard that Solaris lacks (without seeing
              > > >> >> > > proof
              > > >> >> > > of such lacking) that has kept you from moving forward with it?
              > > >> >> > >
              > > >> >> > > I look forward to as many answers as possible!
              > > >> >> > >
              > > >> >> > > P.S.: Join our group on Facebook. This is what it exists for!
              > > >> >> > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=62426200148
              > > >> >> > >
              > > >> >> > > </shameless plug>
              > > >> >> > > <!-- because shame is overrated -->
              > > >> >> > >
              > > >> >> > >
              > > >> >> >
              > > >> >> >
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >> --
              > > >> >> "You can choose your friends, you can choose the deals." - Equity
              > > >> Private
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >> AlphaGuy - http://alphaguy.blogspot.com
              > > >> >> On Twitter - @khyron4eva
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >
              > > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >> >
              > > >> >
              > > >>
              > > >> --
              > > >> Best Regards,
              > > >>
              > > >> Garth Lezama
              > > >> Business/IT Consultant
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > >
              > > > --
              > > > "You can choose your friends, you can choose the deals." - Equity Private
              > > >
              > > > AlphaGuy - http://alphaguy.blogspot.com
              > > > On Twitter - @khyron4eva
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > "You can choose your friends, you can choose the deals." - Equity Private
              >
              > AlphaGuy - http://alphaguy.blogspot.com
              > On Twitter - @khyron4eva
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Hassan Voyeau
              I like this saying there are no stupid questions http://whotv.jobdig.com/articles/390/Are_there_really_no_stupid_questions%3F.html
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 16, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                I like this saying "there are no stupid questions"

                http://whotv.jobdig.com/articles/390/Are_there_really_no_stupid_questions%3F.html

                --- In TTLUG@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Sankarsingh" <stephentnt@...> wrote:
                >
                > "Asking the wrong questions is the leading cause of wrong answers."
                >
                > Wish I read this email while I was by my old-school father-in-law in Guyana last weekend.
                >
                > /Stephen
                >
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