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Dead Radio due to pulling control lead with power still connected

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  • kav246
    Hello All During my latest install I seem to have killed old faithful. I searched the archives and found a few threads suggesting one or sometimes more blown
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 4 1:56 PM
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      Hello All

      During my latest install I seem to have killed old faithful.
      I searched the archives and found a few threads suggesting one or sometimes more blown components in the head unit near the cable socket but I couldn't find any pics so I've posted one I just took of what I'm guessing is the right spot.

      I would be grateful if anybody could confirm this for me.

      Regards
    • DALE
      Pulling the control head with power on will not kill the radio. Disconnecting the cable with power on is a common way to get the radio to come back on with the
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 4 3:08 PM
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        Pulling the control head with power on will not kill the radio.
        Disconnecting the cable with power on is a common way to get the radio to come back on with the same settings when the ignition in turned back on. I do it all the time.
        It is normally a bad cable. The braided gnd lead is next to the 12V wire.
        Some were assembled with frayed wires, the wiggle of disconnecting the cable shorts them.
        A surface mount fuse in the main body blows. It can be jumper ed with a pico fuse
        or another smd soldered to the top of the blown one.
        dale

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "kav246" <kav246@...>
        To: TMD700A@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 1:56:54 PM
        Subject: [TMD700A] Dead Radio due to pulling control lead with power still connected






        Hello All

        During my latest install I seem to have killed old faithful.
        I searched the archives and found a few threads suggesting one or sometimes more blown components in the head unit near the cable socket but I couldn't find any pics so I've posted one I just took of what I'm guessing is the right spot.

        I would be grateful if anybody could confirm this for me.

        Regards

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • kav246
        Dale The results of my 1st search on the archives only returned answers quoting head components but I ll try again. I don t suppose you just happen to know the
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 5 1:48 PM
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          Dale

          The results of my 1st search on the archives only returned answers quoting head components but I'll try again.

          I don't suppose you just happen to know the part No. or location of this fuse do you?

          Mind you if its the same size as the smd's in the head I won't be able to see it anyway haha.

          I read years ago about pulling the cable out with the radio live blowing the radio.
          I never knowingly did it with power on but always with power connected, as I wasn't about to rake around in the boot to pull the DC, and never had a problem across 4 cars and many years.

          I'd roughed out the install in this one using a too short factory cable just to check everything worked (and it did!)then made a custom length one to feed through to the cab. The rig was dead. Tried the original but it stayed dead so I guess the damage was done. I must have screwed up the cable I suppose.

          Still, it's only taken me ten months to get this far. A few more days/weeks/months won't hurt.


          Regards

          Kav



          --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, DALE <wa7ixk@...> wrote:
          >
          > Pulling the control head with power on will not kill the radio.
          > Disconnecting the cable with power on is a common way to get the radio to come back on with the same settings when the ignition in turned back on. I do it all the time.
          > It is normally a bad cable. The braided gnd lead is next to the 12V wire.
          > Some were assembled with frayed wires, the wiggle of disconnecting the cable shorts them.
          > A surface mount fuse in the main body blows. It can be jumper ed with a pico fuse
          > or another smd soldered to the top of the blown one.
          > dale
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "kav246" <kav246@...>
          > To: TMD700A@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 1:56:54 PM
          > Subject: [TMD700A] Dead Radio due to pulling control lead with power still connected
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Hello All
          >
          > During my latest install I seem to have killed old faithful.
          > I searched the archives and found a few threads suggesting one or sometimes more blown components in the head unit near the cable socket but I couldn't find any pics so I've posted one I just took of what I'm guessing is the right spot.
          >
          > I would be grateful if anybody could confirm this for me.
          >
          > Regards
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • kd5oug
          Look at this: http://k9dci.home.comcast.net/~k9dci/D700%20Not%20turning%20on%20and%20F902%20Failure.pdf See location of fuse 902 in the Files section of this
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 5 2:54 PM
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            Look at this:
            http://k9dci.home.comcast.net/~k9dci/D700%20Not%20turning%20on%20and%20F902%20Failure.pdf

            See location of fuse 902 in the Files section of this group.

            Doug KD5OUG

            --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "kav246" <kav246@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dale
            >
            > The results of my 1st search on the archives only returned answers quoting head components but I'll try again.
            >
            > I don't suppose you just happen to know the part No. or location of this fuse do you?
            >
            > Mind you if its the same size as the smd's in the head I won't be able to see it anyway haha.
            >
            > I read years ago about pulling the cable out with the radio live blowing the radio.
            > I never knowingly did it with power on but always with power connected, as I wasn't about to rake around in the boot to pull the DC, and never had a problem across 4 cars and many years.
            >
            > I'd roughed out the install in this one using a too short factory cable just to check everything worked (and it did!)then made a custom length one to feed through to the cab. The rig was dead. Tried the original but it stayed dead so I guess the damage was done. I must have screwed up the cable I suppose.
            >
            > Still, it's only taken me ten months to get this far. A few more days/weeks/months won't hurt.
            >
            >
            > Regards
            >
            > Kav
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, DALE <wa7ixk@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Pulling the control head with power on will not kill the radio.
            > > Disconnecting the cable with power on is a common way to get the radio to come back on with the same settings when the ignition in turned back on. I do it all the time.
            > > It is normally a bad cable. The braided gnd lead is next to the 12V wire.
            > > Some were assembled with frayed wires, the wiggle of disconnecting the cable shorts them.
            > > A surface mount fuse in the main body blows. It can be jumper ed with a pico fuse
            > > or another smd soldered to the top of the blown one.
            > > dale
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "kav246" <kav246@>
            > > To: TMD700A@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 1:56:54 PM
            > > Subject: [TMD700A] Dead Radio due to pulling control lead with power still connected
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hello All
            > >
            > > During my latest install I seem to have killed old faithful.
            > > I searched the archives and found a few threads suggesting one or sometimes more blown components in the head unit near the cable socket but I couldn't find any pics so I've posted one I just took of what I'm guessing is the right spot.
            > >
            > > I would be grateful if anybody could confirm this for me.
            > >
            > > Regards
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
          • DALE
            By memory only, could be wrong, it is ,F902, 3.15 amp. Mine is jumpered with a tiny piece of bus wire that came with my RCA multimeter. They used it for a fuse
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 5 3:31 PM
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              By memory only, could be wrong, it is ,F902, 3.15 amp.
              Mine is jumpered with a tiny piece of bus wire that came with my RCA multimeter.
              They used it for a fuse across a 1/4 spaced pads.
              The position is in the files section, but hard to read
              dale
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "kav246" <kav246@...>
              To: TMD700A@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 1:48:27 PM
              Subject: [TMD700A] Re: Dead Radio due to pulling control lead with power still connected






              Dale

              The results of my 1st search on the archives only returned answers quoting head components but I'll try again.

              I don't suppose you just happen to know the part No. or location of this fuse do you?

              Mind you if its the same size as the smd's in the head I won't be able to see it anyway haha.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • ve7gtc
              The fuse is F902 and is located next to where the voice synthesizer would be mounted on the main board. It simply looks like a small square black smt part. It
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 6 8:06 AM
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                The fuse is F902 and is located next to where the voice synthesizer would be mounted on the main board. It simply looks like a small square black smt part. It can be ordered from East Coast Transistor Parts for $2.85 plus shipping. The part number is F53-0108-05 1.8amp 50v fuse. I replaced mine a month or so ago. Good Luck.

                Gus ve7gtc
              • kav246
                Thanks to all who replied. Next time I search the archives I ll try a few hours sleep first then I might actually see what I m looking at. I ll take a look at
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 6 9:11 AM
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                  Thanks to all who replied.

                  Next time I search the archives I'll try a few hours sleep first then I might actually see what I'm looking at.

                  I'll take a look at the RF deck next but I'd need waders to reach it at the minute as it's VERY raining here just now.

                  I don't wish to throw the baby out with the bath water but, if I was unable to fix it myself I suspect the repair cost this side of the pond would be getting on for one half of a new dual bander.

                  If you found yourself looking for a new set would you instinctively go for the D710 (my first thought) or would you consider the Yaesu FT-M350 (currently on special over here and I kinda like the look of it)?


                  Also, one of the dealers here will take almost anything in part ex, even none working gear so there may be a deal to be done.


                  Kav


                  --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "ve7gtc" <fertree@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The fuse is F902 and is located next to where the voice synthesizer would be mounted on the main board. It simply looks like a small square black smt part. It can be ordered from East Coast Transistor Parts for $2.85 plus shipping. The part number is F53-0108-05 1.8amp 50v fuse. I replaced mine a month or so ago. Good Luck.
                  >
                  > Gus ve7gtc
                  >
                • Donn Washburn
                  ... Well if you are getting to much rain send it here we need it. Sugar Land TX and the whole state. -- 73 de Donn Washburn 307 Savoy Street Email:
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 6 9:20 AM
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                    On 08/06/2011 11:11 AM, kav246 wrote:
                    >
                    > Thanks to all who replied.
                    >
                    > Next time I search the archives I'll try a few hours sleep first then I
                    > might actually see what I'm looking at.
                    >
                    > I'll take a look at the RF deck next but I'd need waders to reach it at
                    > the minute as it's VERY raining here just now.
                    >
                    > I don't wish to throw the baby out with the bath water but, if I was
                    > unable to fix it myself I suspect the repair cost this side of the pond
                    > would be getting on for one half of a new dual bander.
                    >
                    > If you found yourself looking for a new set would you instinctively go
                    > for the D710 (my first thought) or would you consider the Yaesu FT-M350
                    > (currently on special over here and I kinda like the look of it)?
                    >
                    > Also, one of the dealers here will take almost anything in part ex, even
                    > none working gear so there may be a deal to be done.
                    >
                    > Kav
                    >


                    Well if you are getting to much rain send it here we need it.
                    Sugar Land TX and the whole state.

                    --
                    73 de Donn Washburn
                    307 Savoy Street Email:" n5xwb@... "
                    Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256
                    Ham Callsign N5XWB HAMs : " n5xwb@... "
                    VoIP via Skype:n5xwbg BMWMOA #:4146 Ambassador
                    " http://counter.li.org " #279316
                  • noskosteve
                    Kav, If the fuse blew it is most likely due to the wires *in* the small modular connector shorting. I m pretty sure my pictures (try) to show how the wires
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 6 9:42 PM
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                      Kav,

                      If the fuse blew it is most likely due to the wires *in* the small modular connector shorting. I'm pretty sure my pictures (try) to show how the wires can cross over each other and then the insulation gets pinched when the connector strain relief wedge is crimped-in which causes an intermittent short. The short 'shorts' sometimes when you handle the modular connector while plugging or unplugging it.

                      I had been removing the head for years with no problem until one time when the fuse went. On-line I found a description of the connector shorting problem. I took pictures of mine, then re crimped it making sure not to let the wires cross over in the strain relief area. I also installed a micro fuse socket in mine for easier fixing in the future.

                      73, Steve, K9DCI

                      --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "kav246" <kav246@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks to all who replied.
                      >
                      > Next time I search the archives I'll try a few hours sleep first then I might actually see what I'm looking at.
                      >
                      > I'll take a look at the RF deck next but I'd need waders to reach it at the minute as it's VERY raining here just now.
                      >
                      > I don't wish to throw the baby out with the bath water but, if I was unable to fix it myself I suspect the repair cost this side of the pond would be getting on for one half of a new dual bander.
                      >
                      > If you found yourself looking for a new set would you instinctively go for the D710 (my first thought) or would you consider the Yaesu FT-M350 (currently on special over here and I kinda like the look of it)?
                      >
                      >
                      > Also, one of the dealers here will take almost anything in part ex, even none working gear so there may be a deal to be done.
                      >
                      >
                      > Kav
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "ve7gtc" <fertree@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > The fuse is F902 and is located next to where the voice synthesizer would be mounted on the main board. It simply looks like a small square black smt part. It can be ordered from East Coast Transistor Parts for $2.85 plus shipping. The part number is F53-0108-05 1.8amp 50v fuse. I replaced mine a month or so ago. Good Luck.
                      > >
                      > > Gus ve7gtc
                      > >
                      >
                    • noskosteve
                      Forgot, The PDF is in the Files Area and describes this with pictures: D700 Not turning on and F902 Failure.pdf it s in the Files area under: K9DCI s Excel CAT
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 6 9:51 PM
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                        Forgot,
                        The PDF is in the Files Area and describes this with pictures:
                        D700 Not turning on and F902 Failure.pdf
                        it's in the Files area under:
                        K9DCI's Excel CAT & Beginner Guide & Mic quick guide

                        This file in the Files Area has the main board with the Fuse location in the upper - center:
                        F902_LOCATION.pdf

                        Steve


                        --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "noskosteve" <noskosteve@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Kav,
                        >
                        > If the fuse blew it is most likely due to the wires *in* the small modular connector shorting. I'm pretty sure my pictures (try) to show how the wires can cross over each other and then the insulation gets pinched when the connector strain relief wedge is crimped-in which causes an intermittent short. The short 'shorts' sometimes when you handle the modular connector while plugging or unplugging it.
                        >
                        > I had been removing the head for years with no problem until one time when the fuse went. On-line I found a description of the connector shorting problem. I took pictures of mine, then re crimped it making sure not to let the wires cross over in the strain relief area. I also installed a micro fuse socket in mine for easier fixing in the future.
                        >
                        > 73, Steve, K9DCI
                        >
                        > --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "kav246" <kav246@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Thanks to all who replied.
                        > >
                        > > Next time I search the archives I'll try a few hours sleep first then I might actually see what I'm looking at.
                        > >
                        > > I'll take a look at the RF deck next but I'd need waders to reach it at the minute as it's VERY raining here just now.
                        > >
                        > > I don't wish to throw the baby out with the bath water but, if I was unable to fix it myself I suspect the repair cost this side of the pond would be getting on for one half of a new dual bander.
                        > >
                        > > If you found yourself looking for a new set would you instinctively go for the D710 (my first thought) or would you consider the Yaesu FT-M350 (currently on special over here and I kinda like the look of it)?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Also, one of the dealers here will take almost anything in part ex, even none working gear so there may be a deal to be done.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Kav
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "ve7gtc" <fertree@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > The fuse is F902 and is located next to where the voice synthesizer would be mounted on the main board. It simply looks like a small square black smt part. It can be ordered from East Coast Transistor Parts for $2.85 plus shipping. The part number is F53-0108-05 1.8amp 50v fuse. I replaced mine a month or so ago. Good Luck.
                        > > >
                        > > > Gus ve7gtc
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • kav246
                        Hello Yeah I found the files. Excellent work!!! I also found F902 and it ain t blown. Neither is the single (manufacturer fitted?) in line blade fuse. I have
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 7 3:25 AM
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                          Hello

                          Yeah I found the files. Excellent work!!!

                          I also found F902 and it ain't blown. Neither is the single (manufacturer fitted?) in line blade fuse. I have continuity right from the DC connector (at least the one on the pigtail) to F902.

                          I haven't found a probe small enough to ohm out the cable yet. It's been ok for so long I can't see why it would fail now but I'll check it anyway.

                          If the cable and F902 are both ok wheres next to look?


                          Kav

                          PS I'm off to search the archive again but did anyone ever confirm if an RF deck would switch on when connected to a PC with no head unit connected? That would at least prove the RF deck ok.



                          > Forgot,
                          > The PDF is in the Files Area and describes this with pictures:
                          > D700 Not turning on and F902 Failure.pdf
                          > it's in the Files area under:
                          > K9DCI's Excel CAT & Beginner Guide & Mic quick guide
                          >
                          > This file in the Files Area has the main board with the Fuse location in the upper - center:
                          > F902_LOCATION.pdf
                          >
                          > Steve
                          >
                          >
                        • kav246
                          I ve now checked the factory cable which appears to be continuous with no shorts. I ve also DC d up the rig and checked the odd voltage. With nothing else
                          Message 12 of 20 , Aug 7 5:59 AM
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                            I've now checked the factory cable which appears to be continuous with no shorts.

                            I've also DC'd up the rig and checked the odd voltage. With nothing else running the PSU fed 13.98 to the rig (a little high but within tolerance) and this was steady at least as far as F902.

                            I connected up the head cable and measured the voltages at the far end.
                            with the plug facing me, clip down, contacts up I numbered them left to right as 1 to 4 and noted the following voltages.

                            1. 4.96v
                            2. 4.98v
                            3. 0v
                            4. 9.56v dropping .01 a second or so to settle on 9.42v


                            I then connected the head (with power removed just in case)and checked the voltages via the back of the socket for ease of access and noted the following voltages.

                            1. 3.86v
                            2. 4.79v
                            3. 0v
                            4. 1.61v

                            I then went way beyond my knowledge safe place and checked voltages at various places around the head unit. The only thing I learned from it was that upwards of nine volts didn't exist anywhere on the head unit pcb.

                            I also tried the power on with no success and no noticable effect on the voltage at the time.

                            Finally, before disconnecting in disappointment, I checked the voltages at the back of the socket again to find that a couple of things had changed.
                            1. was 3.86v now 3.86v (no change)
                            2. was 4.79v now 1.36v
                            3. was 0v now 6.22v
                            4. was 1.61v now 0.04v

                            Now I'll admit to understanding very little about what this all means but I'd guess at least something in the head is working to sap the voltage like it is.

                            Does it give anyone out there a eureka moment?


                            Kav



                            --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "kav246" <kav246@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello All
                            >
                            > During my latest install I seem to have killed old faithful.
                            > I searched the archives and found a few threads suggesting one or sometimes more blown components in the head unit near the cable socket but I couldn't find any pics so I've posted one I just took of what I'm guessing is the right spot.
                            >
                            > I would be grateful if anybody could confirm this for me.
                            >
                            > Regards
                            >
                          • noskosteve
                            ... Kav, You ve done a lot of testing. I would imagine the only important lines for voltage are the power and ground. The others are signal lines I haven t
                            Message 13 of 20 , Aug 7 2:09 PM
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                              --- "kav246" <kav246@...> wrote:
                              > ...did anyone ever confirm if an RF deck would switch on when connected to a PC with no head unit connected? That would at least prove the RF deck ok.

                              Kav,

                              You've done a lot of testing. I would imagine the only important lines for voltage are the power and ground. The others are signal lines I haven't examined and may be varying due to the radio trying to send data.. One of my pictures identifies which they are, I think....

                              RE Operation with no control head.

                              Y E S! You can turn the D700 on and it will stay on and allow full control via the serial port. However, it appears that it takes some time to wake up after seeing some serial data from the computer before it recognises the PS command. If you know the commands you can use a terminal program.

                              If you have Excel 97 or later, I wrote both a D700 general memory and control sheet (CAT) and a general serial I/O sheet for general serial work. They will work on USB ports as well. The CAT sheet is on my web site.
                              I can send the general Serial version if U like. It can do ASCII commands and Binary/Hex style data. You can enter many commands into cells, then send them simply by clicking on the cell.
                              --
                              73, Steve, K9DCI USN (Vet) MOT (Ret) Ham (Yet)

                              Manage Radio Memories with an Excel Spreadsheet !
                              Click to tune. Click to capture Radio freq.
                              All Memories on one page. Cut, Copy, Paste, Print 'em...
                              For:
                              TM-D700 | TH-F6A | TS-2000 | Icom 706MkIIG
                              All PMs |Real-time & memories | Sat mems too | Loads Mem Tones!
                              NOT D710|Also Kenwood.fx Files|

                              More Details, Features and Downloads at:
                              http://k9dci.home.comcast.net/

                              Up to date APRS Beginner Guide - updated Aug-2010
                              http://K9DCI.home.comcast.net
                              Click the APRS Beginner INFO link under Contact





                              --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "kav246" <kav246@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I've now checked the factory cable which appears to be continuous with no shorts.
                              >
                              > I've also DC'd up the rig and checked the odd voltage. With nothing else running the PSU fed 13.98 to the rig (a little high but within tolerance) and this was steady at least as far as F902.
                              >
                              > I connected up the head cable and measured the voltages at the far end.
                              > with the plug facing me, clip down, contacts up I numbered them left to right as 1 to 4 and noted the following voltages.
                              >
                              > 1. 4.96v
                              > 2. 4.98v
                              > 3. 0v
                              > 4. 9.56v dropping .01 a second or so to settle on 9.42v
                              >
                              >
                              > I then connected the head (with power removed just in case)and checked the voltages via the back of the socket for ease of access and noted the following voltages.
                              >
                              > 1. 3.86v
                              > 2. 4.79v
                              > 3. 0v
                              > 4. 1.61v
                              >
                              > I then went way beyond my knowledge safe place and checked voltages at various places around the head unit. The only thing I learned from it was that upwards of nine volts didn't exist anywhere on the head unit pcb.
                              >
                              > I also tried the power on with no success and no noticable effect on the voltage at the time.
                              >
                              > Finally, before disconnecting in disappointment, I checked the voltages at the back of the socket again to find that a couple of things had changed.
                              > 1. was 3.86v now 3.86v (no change)
                              > 2. was 4.79v now 1.36v
                              > 3. was 0v now 6.22v
                              > 4. was 1.61v now 0.04v
                              >
                              > Now I'll admit to understanding very little about what this all means but I'd guess at least something in the head is working to sap the voltage like it is.
                              >
                              > Does it give anyone out there a eureka moment?
                              >
                              >
                              > Kav
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "kav246" <kav246@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hello All
                              > >
                              > > During my latest install I seem to have killed old faithful.
                              > > I searched the archives and found a few threads suggesting one or sometimes more blown components in the head unit near the cable socket but I couldn't find any pics so I've posted one I just took of what I'm guessing is the right spot.
                              > >
                              > > I would be grateful if anybody could confirm this for me.
                              > >
                              > > Regards
                              > >
                              >
                            • kav246
                              Steve You re right, I have done a bit of testing. Pity I don t understand what I ve tested haha. Sometimes wonder if I got my license free with my cornflakes
                              Message 14 of 20 , Aug 8 11:50 AM
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                                Steve

                                You're right, I have done a bit of testing. Pity I don't understand what I've tested haha. Sometimes wonder if I got my license free with my cornflakes (local insult I once heard on air!)

                                I think, (however I just blew my rig up so what would I know?)that my + and - are the opposite wy round to yours and its not just the question of which end we each viewed the plug from as you have the ground on an outer pin and mine is clearly not. What I need to work out is, is that a symptom of the problem? Has something gone short and hoyed +ve onto the ground line?


                                I've read of your Excell programmes since you launched them (I think it was the F6 I saw first)and was most peeved because I never had Excel.

                                Even my word processor was about 20 years old (Word 6). To get either as a single over here would be the equivelent of about $350 with a full Office Suite comming in at around $550. I got my last car for that!

                                Anywho a few months ago my puter did what my rig just did so I built a new one and included Office in the bundle but it never even occurred to me I could now run your programmes.

                                It did occurr to me though to transfer the RS232 card from my old puter though so I guess next weekend has just mapped itself out.

                                Does the PC serial port bypass the head unit connection completely and go direct the radios processor? The reason I ask is that if there is common circuitry, and that circuitry is where the problem lies, then I am not gonna get a serial connection either.

                                I guess I'll find out come Saturday.

                                Thanks for the continued confidence boosting.


                                Kav
                              • Alex
                                According to the schematic there is a voltage regulation circuit involving transistors Q910, Q911, and Q913 nearby. It appears to be a pass transistor style
                                Message 15 of 20 , Aug 8 1:48 PM
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                                  According to the schematic there is a voltage regulation circuit involving transistors Q910, Q911, and Q913 nearby. It appears to be a pass transistor style regulator. It's possible that this has failed which is killing the power going to your control head. F902 sees the full 13.8V coming in from the main power bus but the head is connected downstream of two transistors which, themselves, are downstream of F902.

                                  --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "kav246" <kav246@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Steve
                                  >
                                  > You're right, I have done a bit of testing. Pity I don't understand what I've tested haha. Sometimes wonder if I got my license free with my cornflakes (local insult I once heard on air!)
                                  >
                                  > I think, (however I just blew my rig up so what would I know?)that my + and - are the opposite wy round to yours and its not just the question of which end we each viewed the plug from as you have the ground on an outer pin and mine is clearly not. What I need to work out is, is that a symptom of the problem? Has something gone short and hoyed +ve onto the ground line?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I've read of your Excell programmes since you launched them (I think it was the F6 I saw first)and was most peeved because I never had Excel.
                                  >
                                  > Even my word processor was about 20 years old (Word 6). To get either as a single over here would be the equivelent of about $350 with a full Office Suite comming in at around $550. I got my last car for that!
                                  >
                                  > Anywho a few months ago my puter did what my rig just did so I built a new one and included Office in the bundle but it never even occurred to me I could now run your programmes.
                                  >
                                  > It did occurr to me though to transfer the RS232 card from my old puter though so I guess next weekend has just mapped itself out.
                                  >
                                  > Does the PC serial port bypass the head unit connection completely and go direct the radios processor? The reason I ask is that if there is common circuitry, and that circuitry is where the problem lies, then I am not gonna get a serial connection either.
                                  >
                                  > I guess I'll find out come Saturday.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for the continued confidence boosting.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Kav
                                  >
                                • kav246
                                  Thanks for that! I had read of a regulator circuit in one of the older threads but it didn t name the components. If I can find my schematics (and the voltages
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Aug 9 12:32 PM
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                                    Thanks for that!

                                    I had read of a regulator circuit in one of the older threads but it didn't name the components.

                                    If I can find my schematics (and the voltages are marked) I may have a go at checking them but if those trannies are SMD then I couldn't sort it myself for all the usual reasons (eyes/shakes/tools/ABILITY, or rather the lack of it). I'd probably make it worse by trying so...

                                    I'm guessing a couple or three "service hours" at UK rates is gonna be approaching half a new rig at least and thats if I can find a decent tech. We have nothing local as far as I'm aware.

                                    I've been watching the D710 since it came out and was ready to buy one until I read about Kenwood getting stuck with a batch of dodgy components or something which failled just as the early sets went out of warranty. Need to research that one for more detail.

                                    Like wise the Yaesu FTM350. Looks great on paper but apparently riddled with problems (mostly audio) and the B receiver is rubbish.

                                    I did find it odd that, although the Kenwood has been out twice as long, both radios had precisely 51 reviews on Eham.

                                    As I no longer have a local dealer I'm likely to end up mail ordering and paying retail so I wanna get it right first time.

                                    Anywho, will update after the weekend checks.


                                    Kav



                                    --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" <agcme2002@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > According to the schematic there is a voltage regulation circuit involving transistors Q910, Q911, and Q913 nearby. It appears to be a pass transistor style regulator. It's possible that this has failed which is killing the power going to your control head. F902 sees the full 13.8V coming in from the main power bus but the head is connected downstream of two transistors which, themselves, are downstream of F902.
                                    >
                                    > --- In TMD700A@yahoogroups.com, "kav246" <kav246@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Steve
                                    > >
                                    > > You're right, I have done a bit of testing. Pity I don't understand what I've tested haha. Sometimes wonder if I got my license free with my cornflakes (local insult I once heard on air!)
                                    > >
                                    > > I think, (however I just blew my rig up so what would I know?)that my + and - are the opposite wy round to yours and its not just the question of which end we each viewed the plug from as you have the ground on an outer pin and mine is clearly not. What I need to work out is, is that a symptom of the problem? Has something gone short and hoyed +ve onto the ground line?
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > I've read of your Excell programmes since you launched them (I think it was the F6 I saw first)and was most peeved because I never had Excel.
                                    > >
                                    > > Even my word processor was about 20 years old (Word 6). To get either as a single over here would be the equivelent of about $350 with a full Office Suite comming in at around $550. I got my last car for that!
                                    > >
                                    > > Anywho a few months ago my puter did what my rig just did so I built a new one and included Office in the bundle but it never even occurred to me I could now run your programmes.
                                    > >
                                    > > It did occurr to me though to transfer the RS232 card from my old puter though so I guess next weekend has just mapped itself out.
                                    > >
                                    > > Does the PC serial port bypass the head unit connection completely and go direct the radios processor? The reason I ask is that if there is common circuitry, and that circuitry is where the problem lies, then I am not gonna get a serial connection either.
                                    > >
                                    > > I guess I'll find out come Saturday.
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks for the continued confidence boosting.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Kav
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • noskosteve
                                    ... Sorry to admit, but I didn t study your numbers a great deal, BUT I think it showed what I needed in order to make my comment. (a lot of gut-feel kinda
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Aug 9 12:50 PM
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                                      --- "kav246" wrote:
                                      > Steve
                                      > You're right, I have done a bit of testing.

                                      Sorry to admit, but I didn't study your numbers a great deal, BUT I think it showed what I needed in order to make my comment. (a lot of "gut-feel" kinda stuff going on there)


                                      > Pity ...understand ...cornflakes

                                      Don't sweat it. You seem to be going at it in the correct direction. Besides, corn, these days is getting pretty complicated with genes for herbicide being spliced into it. Yuk!



                                      > ...my + and - are the opposite wy round to yours

                                      I should have described how I was holding the connector.


                                      > I've read of your Excell programmes ...
                                      > I could now run your programmes.

                                      Unfortunately, I did not include a power on/off function (PS 1/0). Easy to do, but I never thought of it. Hey!...Looks like an addition for the To-Do list...(;-)



                                      > Does the PC serial port bypass the head unit connection completely and go direct the radios processor? The reason I ask is that if there is common circuitry, and that circuitry is where the problem lies, then I am not gonna get a serial connection either.

                                      Well, if the supply to the serial chip is the same thing causing the problem, it obvously causes trouble for the serial port. If the serial chip and everything associated with it and the processor and rest of the radio are OK, it'll work.
                                      If anyone had a head stolen, then can run the radio from the serial port, pretty much 100% as I recall.

                                      I'd just hook up a terminal program, set the baud correctly and try typing "PS 1" several times. If it comes on, good...



                                      > Thanks for the continued confidence boosting.

                                      As is common these days; "No problem." (you're welcome)

                                      Steve, K9DCI
                                    • kav246
                                      Steve The D700 is on the back burner for a while. Can you guess whats comming? I ve been trying every programme I ve got to read a D700 file I have on disc so
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Sep 22, 2011
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                                        Steve

                                        The D700 is on the back burner for a while. Can you guess whats comming?

                                        I've been trying every programme I've got to read a D700 file I have on disc so I can export it as a csv.

                                        I got your sheet to open it (I was guessing what settings to use for column types,delimiters etc) but it did import the file and leave it looking readable.

                                        Trouble is it no longer looked like your sheet and I was lost as to what to do next.

                                        If Im reading the end text of the distruction sheet right you say it will programme many radios but not the D710 (shame).

                                        Will it read a .700 disc file without all the complicated column type setting options and out put to csv?

                                        MCP2 can read some forms of csv so that'll save a lot of typing.


                                        Regards
                                      • noskosteve
                                        ... SHORT ANSWER: NO. Not even with a reasonable amount of data manipulation. FROM the I Wish I Had All The Time in The World department: Unfortunately, in
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Sep 22, 2011
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                                          --- "kav246" wrote:
                                          > Steve
                                          > I've been trying every programme I've got to read a D700 file
                                          > I have on disc so I can export it as a csv.
                                          > ...
                                          > Will it read a .700 disc file

                                          SHORT ANSWER: NO. Not even with a reasonable amount of data manipulation.


                                          FROM the "I Wish I Had All The Time in The World" department:

                                          Unfortunately, in my D700 Workbook, I did not add the ability to Read/Write and correctly interpret files saved with Kenwood's D700-MCP (.700 files).
                                          When you save the whole workbook, it is saved as an 'ordinary' Excel workbook with everything as you see it, and in a special Excel format. It needs that same file to read.
                                          MCP saved files are ASCII, but use coded numbers for many parameters.
                                          I *did* add this function to my Excel Workbook for the TH-F6A handheld... time and interest waned when I did the D700 version.


                                          > I got your sheet to open it (I was guessing what settings
                                          > to use for column types,delimiters etc) but it did import
                                          > the file and leave it looking readable.

                                          The MCP files use SPACE Delimited Fields, so telling Excel to use spaces to define fields will put fields in their own cells. You can simply change the .700 extension to .txt and read with any word processor or Excel.
                                          In amongst you should see things you recognize. The frequency, memory names and Offset should be obvious as well as some of the menu items that are simple text.

                                          But, Alas, having done this buys you nothing.


                                          > Trouble is it no longer looked like your sheet and I was lost as to what to do next.

                                          Unfortunately, you undoubtedly noticed that the rest is all coded numbers that require interpretation to get them to the same "human readable" form as I have in the sheet. Things like PL off=0, T=1, CT=2, DCS=3, OR, Simplex=0, Plus Offset=1, Minus Offset=2( or even more complex). Getting to that point requires essentially duplicating the investigation that I did for the F6 and add a complete set of routines to read and write the .700 files and do all the necessary conversions - which is no simple feat...a month or two or three of evenings, I'd guess. SORRY !!


                                          > If Im reading the end text of the distruction sheet right you say it will programme many radios but not the D710 (shame).

                                          Nice call "distruction sheet". hi hi

                                          Not *many* radios, just any D700. If it appears to say that it is wrong. Let me know what part you refer to and I'll make it correct.
                                          If you refer to this: "You can save many of these sheets with your frequencies." I mean that you can have one sheet saved with all your home frequencies and do another sheet for, say, frequencies for your vacation home, then just load the one you want to use and the whole radio is set up the way you want.

                                          I *WAS* contemplating combining all my versions into one SUPER SHEET (and comments to this effect may be in the To-Do section) that reads and writes all the radios, but because of fundamental differences between radios this is a daunting task - beyond my capability. There are functions and features in some radios, not in others and how to handle this in a common format...???

                                          The D710 has a completely different command syntax. I started to look at it, but it has some missing commands and other interests bubbled to the top of the heap.


                                          > MCP2 can read some forms of csv so that'll save a lot of typing.

                                          My experience is that the MCP will choke if all the I's are not dotted and all the T's not crossed in the .700 file. If there is a Read-CSV option, I never saw nor tried it. If the MCP has a "SAVE CSV" option, that could provide a path to do what you want, but it would require, at a minimum, swapping columns to get things into my format. That would be best done in a blank spreadsheet then copying into my sheet - _IF_ there is a CSVC-SAVE Option in the D700 MCP...

                                          The MCP was just too awkward to use with one screen per memory. In addition, it only saves the one active PM.

                                          Sorry I can't help at this time... unless someone wants to add this.. I'll provide guidance as much as possible...but they better either be proficient in VBA or willing to learn lots by themselves like IO did.

                                          73, Steve, K9DCI
                                        • noskosteve
                                          I changed the Subject and started a new thread. See message 12249 Subject: Excel memory manager questions WAS: Dead Radio ...with 73, Steve, K9DCI
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Sep 22, 2011
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                                            I changed the Subject and started a new thread.

                                            See message 12249

                                            Subject: Excel memory manager questions WAS: Dead Radio ...with


                                            73, Steve, K9DCI
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