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[ Thor Fans ] Re: THE MIGHTY THOR #8

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  • Tyragon Adventures
    Verily the planets hath aligned once more! Thy Spoiler Space Awaits Thee... T H Y S P O I L E R S P A C E ... Okay. I hath read the issue, and thou didth
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 3, 2011
      Verily the planets hath aligned once more!

      Thy Spoiler Space Awaits Thee...


      T
      H
      Y

      S
      P
      O
      I
      L
      E
      R

      S
      P
      A
      C
      E

      > Oh. I haven't changed my mind about Fraction's stories.
      > They have for the most part been less than appealing.
      > I was specifically apologizing for getting on him
      > about killing off the Real Deal when it appears
      > that he hasn't.

      Okay. I hath read the issue, and thou didth giveth this issueth a nineth.

      I would heartedly disagree with thee!

      While, this issue was better than his previous - it did not deserve the rank of a 9! I figured that Tanarus wasn't who he appeared to be (I actually thought, somehow, it was Terrax... perhaps because of the name similarity, and the fact that Terrax already runs around with a weapon...) Who Fraction picked is better, I suppose; but the characterization of him when he "wasn't" Tanarus... was very off, to me. Why would he whine and beg? Is this the same character who has beat around Thor numerous times before? Nay, it did not seem like it to me. I did like how he drew the green trolls; very much reminded me of how Dungeons & Dragons trolls looked! ( http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/art_preview/20080521_114869_0.jpg )

      And Thor is, technically, still "Dead." The woman even says so. But clearly, there's opportunity for such a ... condition... to be reversed, which is no surprise.

      Surprisingly, for the first time, his young Loki was very tolerable, and perhaps the best character in the issue.

      > The only great part of Jurgens' run was
      > Thor Girl.

      I actually liked Magni.

      It's interesting, what he's done with Asgard... and what Odin's done... so I shall see how that goes. This is, admittedly, the first time, I have been interested since Fraction took over. But I still dislike how he wrote "Tanarus" when he was out of his "disguise"... and can't figure out why, even in his disguise, he'd save Volstagg (why not let him fall and be like, "I was too late to save him" considering his natural hatred of Asgardians?)
    • drobbins
      Leafy declared, ... Not really. See below. ... The only reason I gave it a 9 was because Thor isn t dead . ... You are exactly right. I didn t touch on it
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 3, 2011
        Leafy declared,
        > Verily the planets hath aligned once more!

        Not really.
        See below.
        :)

        >>> Thy Spoiler Space Awaits Thee...
        >
        >
        > T
        > H
        > Y
        >
        > S
        > P
        > O
        > I
        > L
        > E
        > R
        >
        > S
        > P
        > A
        > C
        > E
        >
        > > Okay. I hath read the issue, and thou didth giveth this issueth a
        > nineth.
        > I would heartedly disagree with thee!

        The 'only' reason I gave it a 9
        was because Thor isn't 'dead'.

        > > Who Fraction picked is better, I suppose; but the characterization of him
        > when he "wasn't" Tanarus... was very off, to me. Why would he
        > whine and beg? Is this the same character who has beat around Thor numerous
        > times before? Nay, it did not seem like it to me.

        You are exactly right.
        I didn't touch on it in the review because I was
        elated at Thor being alive and that was
        the main thing---but yes,
        Fraction's characterization of Ulik
        is pathetic. It's 'not' the Ulik
        we have seen over the years.

        >>> > The only great part of Jurgens' run
        > was> Thor Girl.

        I was teasing about that, BTW.

        > It's interesting, what he's done with Asgard... and what Odin's done... so
        > I shall see how that goes. This is, admittedly, the first time, I have been
        > interested since Fraction took over. But I still dislike how he wrote
        > "Tanarus" when he was out of his "disguise"... and
        > can't figure out why, even in his disguise, he'd save Volstagg (why not let
        > him fall and be like, "I was too late to save him" considering
        > his natural hatred of Asgardians?)

        We shouldn't be surprised.
        Fraction has demonstrated he doesn't give a
        damn about continuity. When even Thor is
        presented as, well, 'not Thor'----we
        shouldn't expect other characters to
        receive better treatment.

        We need only compare Fraction's childish
        version of the Real Deal to JMS's to
        see the drastic difference between
        a professional writer who cares
        about consistency to a newbie
        who can't be bothered to craft
        stories true to what has gone before.

        Not to carp yet again on something I've mentioned
        a zillion times, but ever since the 'creators'---
        i.e., the writers----became more important than
        the books they write, this was inevitable.
        Marvel's writers have been given freer and
        freer rein to write whatever the Hel they want---
        and continuity be damned.

        Compare that to DC, where they have made
        an effort to give us more consistency,
        not less.

        It's no wonder, as I saw in a recent
        news article about Marvel, that
        they've taken a hit in sales. If they
        keep this crap up it will only get worse.

        I'm reading THOR now out of habit.
        Not because I'm enjoying what Fraction
        is doing. I can't wait until he's off
        the title.

        David
      • Tyragon Adventures
        ... I am wagering, that people may have dropped MARVEL titles, in favor of the cheaper rebooted DC comics; all of which, seem to be nothing short of excellent.
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 4, 2011
          > It's no wonder, as I saw in a recent
          > news article about Marvel, that
          > they've taken a hit in sales. If they
          > keep this crap up it will only get worse.

          I am wagering, that people may have dropped MARVEL titles, in favor of the cheaper rebooted DC comics; all of which, seem to be nothing short of excellent. I have sworn up and down, to hating Batman (who is never defeated) and Superman (who is, by all standards, impossible to defeat). I now collect like six different Batman titles. I collect Superman. Superboy. Supergirl. Today, when I was organizing my comics, 90% of the comics were DC comics.

          I applaud Marvel's slow attempt of trying to lure new readers; Wolverine & The X-Men #1 (worse... name... ever). Rebooting Uncanny X-Men with #1. Rebooting Thor as The Mighty Thor #1. And who knows what other titles.

          Gods. I - in eons long gone - would hate reboots that DC has done. But by the seven heavens, DC did the reboot so well. If Marvel could pull it off just as well, by the gods, I might even say I am in favor of it.
        • JM_PRESS
          I ve said before that the way they are going - all future issues will just have Wolverine vs Doctor Doom with guest shots from Spider Man and the X Men. I
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 4, 2011
            I've said before that the way they are going - all future issues will
            just have Wolverine vs Doctor Doom with guest shots from Spider Man and
            the X Men.

            I deserted DC in the mid 60's. They never really learned Diversity and
            neither Gotham nor Metropolis are real cities. I never went back to
            them, I can wait for Marvel to get it's Act together - I've done it before

            On 12/4/2011 8:20 PM, Tyragon Adventures wrote:
            >
            > > It's no wonder, as I saw in a recent
            > > news article about Marvel, that
            > > they've taken a hit in sales. If they
            > > keep this crap up it will only get worse.
            >
            > I am wagering, that people may have dropped MARVEL titles, in favor of
            > the cheaper rebooted DC comics; all of which, seem to be nothing short
            > of excellent. I have sworn up and down, to hating Batman (who is never
            > defeated) and Superman (who is, by all standards, impossible to
            > defeat). I now collect like six different Batman titles. I collect
            > Superman. Superboy. Supergirl. Today, when I was organizing my comics,
            > 90% of the comics were DC comics.
            >
            > I applaud Marvel's slow attempt of trying to lure new readers;
            > Wolverine & The X-Men #1 (worse... name... ever). Rebooting Uncanny
            > X-Men with #1. Rebooting Thor as The Mighty Thor #1. And who knows
            > what other titles.
            >
            > Gods. I - in eons long gone - would hate reboots that DC has done. But
            > by the seven heavens, DC did the reboot so well. If Marvel could pull
            > it off just as well, by the gods, I might even say I am in favor of it.
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Tyragon Adventures
            ... Uh. Hopefully, you don t collect DC just because they don t use real cities? Personally, I hate when they make real world references. Like in the recent
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 5, 2011
              > I deserted DC in the mid 60's. They never really learned
              > Diversity and neither Gotham nor Metropolis are real
              > cities. I never went back to them, I can wait for Marvel
              > to get it's Act together - I've done it before

              Uh. Hopefully, you don't collect DC just because they don't use real cities?

              Personally, I hate when they make real world references. Like in the recent Secret Avengers I think it was - they made references to Al-Queda or however you spell it.

              On the flip side, you do realize that Laventry (or whatever Doom's kingdom is called) and Wakanda (Black Panther's country) are fictional... Among several others, used in Marvel, like Savage Land and the like? ;-)
            • Tyragon Adventures
              ... Ahem, and the irony, being on a Thor list, Asgard, not being real. ;-) Well, unless you follow a very old Norse belief...
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 5, 2011
                > > I deserted DC in the mid 60's. They never really learned
                > > Diversity and neither Gotham nor Metropolis are real
                > > cities. I never went back to them, I can wait for Marvel
                > > to get it's Act together - I've done it before
                > Uh. Hopefully, you don't collect DC just because they don't
                > use real cities?
                > Personally, I hate when they make real world references. Like
                > in the recent Secret Avengers I think it was - they made
                > references to Al-Queda or however you spell it.
                > On the flip side, you do realize that Laventry (or whatever
                > Doom's kingdom is called) and Wakanda (Black Panther's
                > country) are fictional... Among several others, used in
                > Marvel, like Savage Land and the like? ;-)

                Ahem, and the irony, being on a Thor list, Asgard, not being real. ;-)

                Well, unless you follow a very old Norse belief...
              • drobbins
                Bill said, ... Marvel did beat DC with the first black superhero by about ten years. But DC came out with stronger female characters before Marvel did. (Carol
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 7, 2011
                  Bill said,
                  > > I deserted DC in the mid 60's. They never really
                  > learned> Diversity

                  Marvel did beat DC with the first black superhero
                  by about ten years.
                  But DC came out with stronger female characters
                  before Marvel did. (Carol Ferris, for one.)
                  DC also had Kalmaku. Interestingly,
                  both were in GL.)

                  >>>and neither Gotham nor Metropolis are
                  > real > cities.

                  This one baffles me.
                  Nothing in comics is real.

                  Both 'Gotham' and 'Metropolis' are old
                  nicknames for NYC so that never bothered
                  me.

                  >>>I never went back to them, I can wait
                  > for Marvel> to get it's Act together - I've done it
                  > before

                  I'm tired of waiting real years for a publisher
                  to do that. I don't have that many left
                  and I don't intend to squander them on idiotic
                  storylines.

                  David
                • Tyragon Adventures
                  ... Did they? I didn t know that? Who was the first African American hero in Marvel? Goliath? ... These days, despite my praising of DC, I think Marvel has the
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 7, 2011
                    > > I deserted DC in the mid 60's. They never really
                    > > learned Diversity
                    > Marvel did beat DC with the first black superhero
                    > by about ten years.

                    Did they? I didn't know that? Who was the first African American hero in Marvel? Goliath?

                    > But DC came out with stronger female characters
                    > before Marvel did. (Carol Ferris, for one.)
                    > DC also had Kalmaku. Interestingly,
                    > both were in GL.)

                    These days, despite my praising of DC, I think Marvel has the foothold now on strong female characters. (I don't mean physically strong, but personality wise).

                    > >>>and neither Gotham nor Metropolis are
                    > > real > cities.
                    > This one baffles me. Nothing in comics is real.
                    > Both 'Gotham' and 'Metropolis' are old
                    > nicknames for NYC so that never bothered
                    > me.

                    Yes, that one got me too... Especially on a THOR list, where a large percentage of the stories happen in various places such as Asgard, different dimensions, etc. :-)

                    > >>>I never went back to them, I can wait
                    > > for Marvel> to get it's Act together - I've done it
                    > > before
                    > I'm tired of waiting real years for a publisher
                    > to do that. I don't have that many left
                    > and I don't intend to squander them on idiotic
                    > storylines.

                    It's sad, because there have been times where Marvel really does something right - then fubars it. Like... Thor. But Marvel still has DnA as writers; and whatever they do I will follow.
                  • JM_PRESS
                    ... The Black Panther was the first and dealt with issues that took Black Vulcan and the Black Green Lantern decades later to deal with, they also didn t give
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 7, 2011
                      On 12/7/2011 1:20 AM, drobbins wrote:
                      >
                      > Bill said,
                      > > > I deserted DC in the mid 60's. They never really
                      > > learned> Diversity
                      >
                      > Marvel did beat DC with the first black superhero
                      > by about ten years.
                      >

                      The Black Panther was the first and dealt with issues that took Black
                      Vulcan and the Black Green Lantern decades later to deal with, they also
                      didn't give us stereotypes like Samurai and Apache Chief. Seems it took
                      forever for all the comics to get on board with Women.
                      >
                      > But DC came out with stronger female characters
                      > before Marvel did. (Carol Ferris, for one.)
                      > DC also had Kalmaku. Interestingly,
                      > both were in GL.)
                      >
                      > >>>and neither Gotham nor Metropolis are
                      > > real > cities.
                      >
                      > This one baffles me.
                      > Nothing in comics is real.
                      >
                      > Both 'Gotham' and 'Metropolis' are old
                      > nicknames for NYC so that never bothered
                      > me.
                      >
                      What I meant is that Gotham and Metropolis may be based on New York
                      City. But DC was labeling everything Gotham this and Metropolis that
                      while Marvel used Grand Central Station and Central Par. Many people
                      have written how they learned NYC geography from Marvel and I am one of
                      them (there was even a TV Documentary on Marvel and NYC). It also
                      translated to the crowd. Black, White, Long Hair, Short Hair just like a
                      real City. In Metropolis if they saw Superman they always smiled and
                      waved, in NYC if they saw the Avengers they would complain about how
                      they were holding up traffic and needed to get to work. Just real!

                      Yes I realize there's Asgard, Latveria, the Wakanda etc., that aren't
                      real, but in like the heroes, they must interact with the real world and
                      some of these have real life lessons.

                      > >>>I never went back to them, I can wait
                      > > for Marvel> to get it's Act together - I've done it
                      > > before
                      >
                      > I'm tired of waiting real years for a publisher
                      > to do that. I don't have that many left
                      > and I don't intend to squander them on idiotic
                      > storylines.
                      >
                      > David
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Tyragon Adventures
                      ... Say what? Have you read old issues of Power Man? And how they had him talking? Do you remember Arabian Knight, only a few years ago, lost his turban and
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 7, 2011
                        > The Black Panther was the first and dealt with issues
                        > that took Black Vulcan and the Black Green Lantern
                        > decades later to deal with, they also didn't give us
                        > stereotypes like Samurai and Apache Chief. Seems it took
                        > forever for all the comics to get on board with Women.

                        Say what?

                        Have you read old issues of Power Man? And how they had him talking?
                        Do you remember Arabian Knight, only a few years ago, lost his turban and traditional Arabian look. Do you not remember American Eagle? Or just about any Native American hero, even Thunderbird? Or what about El Aguilar, which (although I loved him) was your generic "Spanish Zorro" character. Marvel is chalk full of a ton of stereo typed characters, that only recently are breaking away from 'the mold.'

                        > Many people have written how they learned NYC
                        > geography from Marvel and I am one of them (there
                        > was even a TV Documentary on Marvel and NYC).

                        NYC has icons in it. Empire State Building. Statue of Liberty. (Previously World Trade Center). But do me a favor and head to the Alpha Flight forums, and ask them how accurate Marvel is with their portrayal of Canada and its regions... I bet you won't get such a positive response. :-)

                        > It also translated to the crowd. Black, White, Long
                        > Hair, Short Hair just like a real City. In Metropolis
                        > if they saw Superman they always smiled and waved, in
                        > NYC if they saw the Avengers they would complain about
                        > how they were holding up traffic and needed to get to
                        > work. Just real!

                        Once again, I must question if you read the same Avengers I did. Sure, there was the occasional issue where someone might say something... but for the most part, people hailed the Avengers as the best thing since sliced bread! It wasn't, once again, till recent years, when Marvel ruined the Avengers with Disassembled and such, that the Avengers aren't hailed as the best thing ever. The only team that got any crap was the X-Men team because of the hatred of 'Mutants.'

                        > Yes I realize there's Asgard, Latveria, the Wakanda
                        > etc., that aren't real, but in like the heroes, they
                        > must interact with the real world and some of these
                        > have real life lessons.

                        So I have to ask... if it takes place elsewhere... like if Black Panther focused only in Wakanda... then the series had no real life lessons? Or Ka-Zar, which almost exclusively Savage Land, had no real life lessons?
                      • Tyragon Adventures
                        ... LOL! And to be clear - please don t feel like I am attacking you! I think it s interesting you have a different view than mine (very different!) and I
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 7, 2011
                          > > The Black Panther was the first and dealt with issues
                          > > that took Black Vulcan and the Black Green Lantern
                          > > decades later to deal with, they also didn't give us
                          > > stereotypes like Samurai and Apache Chief. Seems it took
                          > > forever for all the comics to get on board with Women.

                          LOL! And to be clear - please don't feel like I am attacking you! I think it's interesting you have a different view than mine (very different!) and I would love to hear more about it and discuss it!
                        • JM_PRESS
                          ... Actually I think you are laying on a little too much sarcasm. DRobbins read it more clearly. I was discussing why I left DC for Marvel in the 60 s. Back
                          Message 12 of 22 , Dec 7, 2011
                            On 12/7/2011 2:45 PM, Tyragon Adventures wrote:
                            >
                            > > > The Black Panther was the first and dealt with issues
                            > > > that took Black Vulcan and the Black Green Lantern
                            > > > decades later to deal with, they also didn't give us
                            > > > stereotypes like Samurai and Apache Chief. Seems it took
                            > > > forever for all the comics to get on board with Women.
                            >
                            > LOL! And to be clear - please don't feel like I am attacking you! I
                            > think it's interesting you have a different view than mine (very
                            > different!) and I would love to hear more about it and discuss it!
                            >

                            Actually I think you are laying on a little too much sarcasm. DRobbins
                            read it more clearly. I was discussing why I left DC for Marvel in the
                            60's. Back then when I switched to Marvel I was probably reading about
                            12 titles a month (at 10 cents a copy I was still broke). I'm down to
                            just one - Thor (although I will see what Hercules is doing once in a
                            while). I read the Avengers until after Civil War. New Yorkers react in
                            various ways to their Superheroes from happy to irritated to downright
                            concerned. But they always seem to have a "what have you done for me
                            lately attitude" Check with Alex Ross' MARVELS which has captured what
                            many of the comics had been saying.

                            As for other cities? I've seen them misrepresent my own home city of San
                            Francisco as well so I sympathize with the Canadians and anybody else.

                            Wakanda? Is like many of the other African Nations, worried that an
                            outsider will come along and strip it's resources.
                            Ka-Zar? Savage Land? Mr and Mrs Tarzan? Never read it, never appealed

                            Personally I am upset at how everything has gone downhill over the
                            years. New writers that seem to want to make their mark and then crush
                            the continuity and/or the character. Everytime I read the encyclopedia
                            to catch up on a title my head hurts. The other stereotypes you
                            mentioned. I have heard of most of them after the fact but asked myself
                            "what the hell are they thinking?"

                            I posted when I first joined the group why I read Thor the Norse God. It
                            was never about reality!

                            We may never agree as you said you don't like real references and I
                            always preferred them.

                            Erik
                            >
                            >




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Tyragon Adventures
                            ... Fair enough, mostly been insanely curious - but I admit the Asgard thing was a bit sarcastic of me. :-) My apologies if it felt too much of an attack! :-)
                            Message 13 of 22 , Dec 8, 2011
                              > Actually I think you are laying on a little too much sarcasm.

                              Fair enough, mostly been insanely curious - but I admit the Asgard thing was a bit sarcastic of me. :-) My apologies if it felt too much of an attack! :-) I was just curious about how you didn't collect DC because the stories mainly take place in a fictional city (cities), rather than real cities; when a great portion of Thor takes place on Asgard.

                              > I read the Avengers until after Civil War.

                              The fact you made it through Disassembled, I applaud thee. :)

                              > New Yorkers react in various ways to their Superheroes
                              > from happy to irritated to downright concerned. But
                              > they always seem to have a "what have you done for me
                              > lately attitude" Check with Alex Ross' MARVELS which
                              > has captured what many of the comics had been saying.

                              This is true; but you said for example in DC, they always wave at Superman like he's great. They do the same thing for Captain America. (Captain America is Marvel's "Superman" icon type character). There's been stories, yes, where the common citizens turn on Captain America, but 99% of the time, they're treating Cap like the best thing ever. I think there's always characters that the "general population" adores (in comics).

                              > As for other cities? I've seen them misrepresent my own
                              > home city of San Francisco as well so I sympathize with
                              > the Canadians and anybody else.

                              Heh, be thankful you don't read current X-Men books, as they're in San Fran.

                              > Personally I am upset at how everything has gone downhill
                              > over the years.

                              Well, on that we agree, very much.

                              > New writers that seem to want to make their mark and
                              > then crush the continuity and/or the character.

                              Again, we agree. I think all of this really started being a BIG problem when they brought in Morrison, Austen, etc into Marvel to basically say, "You guys are big names! Do whatever you want!" And they stomped all over everything.

                              There are some new writers, who are excellent. I constantly hail DnA as a team.

                              > We may never agree as you said you don't like real
                              > references and I always preferred them.

                              Hey! It's not that I disagree! I was just curious about it! Man, we all got our different tastes! Me and David raz one another constantly over Beta Ray Bill. I absolutely love the character. David razes me for it and swears that Thor Girl is more awesome. (Granted she has... certain things that look nicer...) :-) So please, I totally understand everyone has their different tastes. Again, totally sorry if you felt attacked! Was not my intention. :-)
                            • drobbins
                              Erik mentioned, ... Egads. I had a lucid moment??? Let me mark my calendar. ... Man, I hear that. Mark Gruenwald would roll over in his grave. It used to be
                              Message 14 of 22 , Dec 8, 2011
                                Erik mentioned,
                                > DRobbins
                                > read it more clearly.

                                Egads.
                                I had a lucid moment???
                                Let me mark my calendar.
                                :)

                                > Personally I am upset at how everything has gone downhill over the
                                > years. New writers that seem to want to make their mark and then crush
                                > the continuity and/or the character.

                                Man, I hear that.
                                Mark Gruenwald would roll over
                                in his grave.
                                It used to be that Marvel
                                took pride in its
                                continuity and characters
                                were consistent.

                                Now, pretty much anything goes.

                                David
                              • drobbins
                                Leafy said, ... Who??? Oh. Yeah. That clone with a horsey head. LOL ... Permit me to put it this way. Philosophically speaking, who would you rather bang:
                                Message 15 of 22 , Dec 8, 2011
                                  Leafy said,
                                  > Hey! It's not that I disagree! I was just curious about it! Man, we all got
                                  > our different tastes! Me and David raz one another constantly over Beta Ray
                                  > Bill.

                                  Who???
                                  Oh.
                                  Yeah.
                                  That clone with a horsey head.
                                  LOL

                                  >>>I absolutely love the character. David razes me for it and swears
                                  > that Thor Girl is more awesome.

                                  Permit me to put it this way.
                                  Philosophically speaking, who would you
                                  rather bang: Thor Girl or BRB?

                                  I rest my awesomeness case.
                                  LOL #2

                                  David
                                • JM_PRESS
                                  ... With Captain America the public Generally feels safer because he s human and if he gets in a fight, chances are he wont tear up the city. Plus notice every
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Dec 10, 2011
                                    > This is true; but you said for example in DC, they always wave at
                                    > Superman like he's great. They do the same thing for Captain America.
                                    > (Captain America is Marvel's "Superman" icon type character). There's
                                    > been stories, yes, where the common citizens turn on Captain America,
                                    > but 99% of the time, they're treating Cap like the best thing ever. I
                                    > think there's always characters that the "general population" adores
                                    > (in comics).
                                    >

                                    With Captain America the public Generally feels safer because he's human
                                    and if he gets in a fight, chances are he wont tear up the city. Plus
                                    notice every time he appears, some old guy will reminiscence how Cap
                                    saved his unit in WW2
                                    >
                                    > > As for other cities? I've seen them misrepresent my own
                                    > > home city of San Francisco as well so I sympathize with
                                    > > the Canadians and anybody else.
                                    >
                                    > Heh, be thankful you don't read current X-Men books, as they're in San
                                    > Fran.
                                    >
                                    > > Personally I am upset at how everything has gone downhill
                                    > > over the years.
                                    >
                                    > Well, on that we agree, very much.
                                    >
                                    > > New writers that seem to want to make their mark and
                                    > > then crush the continuity and/or the character.
                                    >
                                    > Again, we agree. I think all of this really started being a BIG
                                    > problem when they brought in Morrison, Austen, etc into Marvel to
                                    > basically say, "You guys are big names! Do whatever you want!" And
                                    > they stomped all over everything.
                                    >
                                    > There are some new writers, who are excellent. I constantly hail DnA
                                    > as a team.
                                    >
                                    > > We may never agree as you said you don't like real
                                    > > references and I always preferred them.
                                    >
                                    > Hey! It's not that I disagree! I was just curious about it! Man, we
                                    > all got our different tastes! Me and David raz one another constantly
                                    > over Beta Ray Bill. I absolutely love the character. David razes me
                                    > for it and swears that Thor Girl is more awesome. (Granted she has...
                                    > certain things that look nicer...) :-) So please, I totally understand
                                    > everyone has their different tastes. Again, totally sorry if you felt
                                    > attacked! Was not my intention. :-)
                                    >

                                    Without jumping into this argument, I the only thing I'll say about Beta
                                    Ray Bill is that I don't think the Thor Power should be bandied about
                                    like a Iron Man Armor, Green Lantern Ring or Pym Growth Serum. He's a
                                    God and you just don't give away God power. Now Thor Girl (the
                                    designate) got it on her own.

                                    Every time I get a love in the Comic, they change artist who then makes
                                    her look horrible (anybody drawn by John Byrne)
                                    >
                                    >




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Tyragon Adventures
                                    ... You re either incorrect or exaggerating. I assume, exaggerating, since it s definitely not every time Cap shows up some Veteran is like, I remember when
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Dec 11, 2011
                                      > With Captain America the public Generally feels safer
                                      > because he's human and if he gets in a fight, chances
                                      > are he wont tear up the city. Plus notice every time
                                      > he appears, some old guy will reminiscence how Cap
                                      > saved his unit in WW2

                                      You're either incorrect or exaggerating. I assume, exaggerating, since it's definitely not "every time" Cap shows up some Veteran is like, "I remember when you saved me!"


                                      RE: Beta Ray Bill.
                                      > Without jumping into this argument, I the only thing
                                      > I'll say about Beta Ray Bill is that I don't think
                                      > the Thor Power should be bandied about like a Iron
                                      > Man Armor, Green Lantern Ring or Pym Growth Serum.
                                      > He's a God and you just don't give away God power.
                                      > Now Thor Girl (the designate) got it on her own.

                                      First, for Beta Ray Bill - Thor isn't the one handing out Thor's power. It was Odin. And it's not like Odin just handed it out to some lucky winner in the Asgardian Lottery System. Beta Ray Bill fought Thor, in hopes of gaining Thor's power - for the sole reason of saving his people. He was willing to go up against the very power source he detected was powerful enough to save his people. Sure, Odin slightly rigged the fight; but Odin, the All Father, saw Beta Ray Bill as a worthy person to wield such power. So considering Beta Ray Bill was willing to fight Thor, I would highly disagree with the idea that Beta Ray Bill didn't "earn" his power. As for Thor Girl having "earned" her power - per (the easiest source to quote from) - Wikipedia: "In the beginning of time, alien sorcerer X'Hoss foretells the creation of the Designate, who will help evolve sentient beings to the next level of existence. Billions of years later, Tarene is born. She is told about the fate of the evil Destroyer and together with others seeks a way to stop him. In the meantime, Thanos obtains X'Hoss' knowledge and destroys Tarene's home-world. She gains the help of Thor and Orikal in defeating the villain. Tarene later transforms herself into an Asgardian goddess and becomes Thor's loyal ally, taking the name "Thor Girl" and the human identity of Jake Olson's "cousin" Tara."

                                      So - with Thor's help - she goes and defeats someone. Not really, in my eyes, proving herself worthy of having the power of Thor. Perhaps, since getting it, she has "earned" it - but initially being granted her power - nowhere near as brave, noble, etc as Beta Ray Bill. :-)
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