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Re: [ Thor Fans ] FEAR ITSELF #7

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  • drobbins
    Don said, ... Is there any chance I m wrong? You hear a lot more than I do about upcoming stuff. Leafy too. Is there really going to be another Thor clone? Are
    Message 1 of 24 , Oct 20, 2011
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      Don said,
      > I can only say, I agree, and think was the worst ending to a Marvel 'event'
      > since they have been shoving them at the public the last decade.
      >  Interesting start, slow middle and a fiery crash of epic fail.


      Is there any chance I'm wrong?
      You hear a lot more than I do about upcoming stuff.
      Leafy too.

      Is there really going to be another Thor clone?
      Are they planning on bringing Thor back any time soon?

      I noticed they've removed him from the Avengers lineup
      starting with the next issue.
      That's not encouraging.

      David
    • Don Lund
      David, I do not think the break will be long, there is a new Avengers book that is supposed to reflect the line up from the upcoming summer movie. The
      Message 2 of 24 , Nov 1, 2011
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        David,

        I do not think the break will be long, there is a new Avengers' book that is supposed to reflect the line up from the upcoming summer movie.

        The duration matters little when the story that got us here was so bad.

        Maybe another clone, just not certain.


        -Don

        Sent from my iPad

        On Oct 20, 2011, at 10:43 PM, drobbins <drobbins@...> wrote:

        > Don said,
        >> I can only say, I agree, and think was the worst ending to a Marvel 'event'
        >> since they have been shoving them at the public the last decade.
        >> Interesting start, slow middle and a fiery crash of epic fail.
        >
        >
        > Is there any chance I'm wrong?
        > You hear a lot more than I do about upcoming stuff.
        > Leafy too.
        >
        > Is there really going to be another Thor clone?
        > Are they planning on bringing Thor back any time soon?
        >
        > I noticed they've removed him from the Avengers lineup
        > starting with the next issue.
        > That's not encouraging.
        >
        > David
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > *********** THOR FANS 2011 The Year of Thor ***********Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • drobbins
        Don said, ... Let s hope not. The sad thing is, experience has taught us to never underestimate Marvel s, errr, cranial density . Sigh. ... Just what we
        Message 3 of 24 , Nov 2, 2011
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          Don said,
          > I do not think the break will be long,

          Let's hope not.
          The sad thing is,
          experience has taught us
          to never underestimate
          Marvel's, errr, 'cranial density'.
          Sigh.

          >>>>> Maybe another clone, just not certain.

          Just what we needed.

          Hopefully, Beta Ray Bill
          will come down and take him out.

          :)
          David
        • Tyragon Adventures
          ... Well, he may not be responsible for killing THOR... that may have been a Marvel Choice, for Fear Itself to have Impact (like killing Captain America in
          Message 4 of 24 , Nov 8, 2011
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            > FEAR ITSELF #7
            > Idiot Writer: Fraction
            > Art: Immonen
            > And a bunch of other folks.
            > S
            > P
            > O
            > I
            > L
            > E
            > R
            > Thor dies.
            > Again.
            > A year ago Fraction came on board.
            > And what does he do?
            > He kills Balder,
            > He kills Tyr.
            > And now he kills Thor.

            Well, he may not be responsible for killing THOR... that may have been a Marvel Choice, for Fear Itself to have "Impact" (like killing Captain America in Civil War... or "killing" him).

            That said, I can't stand Faction's THOR. At all. Long before Fear Itself. I just don't think he has a grasp on Thor. At all.

            > It wouldn’t be so odious except that rumor has it
            > Marvel is bringing in another substitute. Remember
            > Thunderstrike? How we were without Thor for years
            > while Masterson ran around pretending to be Thor?

            Not a rumor.
          • Tyragon Adventures
            ... No. ... Hooray! ... Yes. ... Probably to take down the clone. ... Leave it to Marvel. Our proper THOR will probably return just before the release of the
            Message 5 of 24 , Nov 8, 2011
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              > > I can only say, I agree, and think was the worst ending to a Marvel 'event'
              > > since they have been shoving them at the public the last decade.
              > >  Interesting start, slow middle and a fiery crash of epic fail.
              > Is there any chance I'm wrong?

              No.

              > You hear a lot more than I do about upcoming stuff.
              > Leafy too.

              Hooray!

              > Is there really going to be another Thor clone?

              Yes.

              > Are they planning on bringing Thor back any time soon?

              Probably to take down the clone.

              > I noticed they've removed him from the Avengers lineup
              > starting with the next issue.
              > That's not encouraging.

              Leave it to Marvel.

              Our proper THOR will probably return just before the release of the THOR 2 movie...
            • Tyragon Adventures
              ... Would that make ya like him? Speaking of, anyone else reading ANNIHILATORS? If not, why not? It s freaking awesome.
              Message 6 of 24 , Nov 8, 2011
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                > >>>>> Maybe another clone, just not certain.
                > Just what we needed.
                > Hopefully, Beta Ray Bill
                > will come down and take him out.

                Would that make ya like him?

                Speaking of, anyone else reading ANNIHILATORS? If not, why not? It's freaking awesome.
              • Matthew Jurkoic
                I saw we all show Marvel what we think of this travesty and stop buying until Thor is returned to his proper majesty. ________________________________ From:
                Message 7 of 24 , Nov 8, 2011
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                  I saw we all show Marvel what we think of this travesty and stop buying until Thor is returned to his proper majesty.


                  ________________________________
                  From: Tyragon Adventures <ravenflight.sabretooth@...>
                  To: thorfans@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 5:16 PM
                  Subject: Re: [ Thor Fans ] FEAR ITSELF #7


                   
                  > > I can only say, I agree, and think was the worst ending to a Marvel 'event'
                  > > since they have been shoving them at the public the last decade.
                  > >  Interesting start, slow middle and a fiery crash of epic fail.
                  > Is there any chance I'm wrong?

                  No.

                  > You hear a lot more than I do about upcoming stuff.
                  > Leafy too.

                  Hooray!

                  > Is there really going to be another Thor clone?

                  Yes.

                  > Are they planning on bringing Thor back any time soon?

                  Probably to take down the clone.

                  > I noticed they've removed him from the Avengers lineup
                  > starting with the next issue.
                  > That's not encouraging.

                  Leave it to Marvel.

                  Our proper THOR will probably return just before the release of the THOR 2 movie...




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • drobbins
                  Leafy said, ... They d already killed Bucky . They had to kill Thor too? Didn t anyone at Marvel have the brains to remember they just brought Thor back from
                  Message 8 of 24 , Nov 8, 2011
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                    Leafy said,
                    > Well, he may not be responsible for killing THOR... that may have been a
                    > Marvel Choice, for Fear Itself to have "Impact" (like killing
                    > Captain America in Civil War... or "killing" him).

                    They'd already killed 'Bucky'.
                    They had to kill Thor too?

                    Didn't anyone at Marvel have the brains to remember
                    they just brought Thor back from the dead just
                    a few years ago?
                    This is majorly dumbass.

                    > That said, I can't stand Faction's THOR. At all.

                    We are in 'complete' agreement.

                    >>>Long before Fear Itself. I
                    > just don't think he has a grasp on Thor. At all.

                    Wow.
                    We are in complete agreement again.

                    (Is the world coming to an end?
                    Are the stars spinning in their axis?)

                    > > It wouldn’t be so odious except that
                    > rumor has it> Marvel is bringing in another substitute.
                    > Remember > Thunderstrike? How we were without Thor for
                    > years> while Masterson ran around pretending to be
                    > Thor?
                    > Not a rumor.

                    Oh, for.....
                    Sigh.

                    Dumb, dumb, dumb.

                    David
                  • drobbins
                    Leafy mentioned, ... And when it that? A year an a half? This is pitiful. Fraction sucks. Marvel is dumbass. Excuse me while I indulge in primal scream
                    Message 9 of 24 , Nov 8, 2011
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                      Leafy mentioned,
                      > Our proper THOR will probably return just before the release of the THOR 2
                      > movie...

                      And when it that?
                      A year an a half?

                      This is pitiful.

                      Fraction sucks.
                      Marvel is dumbass.

                      Excuse me while I indulge
                      in primal scream therapy.

                      Sigh.

                      David
                    • Ditkomania@aol.com
                      In a message dated 11/8/2011 11:47:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, matt_jurkoic@yahoo.com writes: I saw we all show Marvel what we think of this travesty and stop
                      Message 10 of 24 , Nov 8, 2011
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                        In a message dated 11/8/2011 11:47:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                        matt_jurkoic@... writes:

                        I saw we all show Marvel what we think of this travesty and stop buying
                        until Thor is returned to his proper majesty.

                        Not me brother. I'm checking out Ultimate Thor in the Ultimates. I haven't
                        read any Ultimate comics since the last time Thor was dead. Hmmm
                        Bill

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • drobbins
                        Matthew said, ... Funny you should mention that. I am so pissed at Marvel for this stupidity, I ve been thinking about dropping their line entirely and
                        Message 11 of 24 , Nov 8, 2011
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                          Matthew said,
                          > I saw we all show Marvel what we think of this travesty and stop buying
                          > until Thor is returned to his proper majesty.

                          Funny you should mention that.

                          I am 'so' pissed at Marvel
                          for this stupidity, I've been
                          thinking about dropping their line
                          entirely and switching to DC
                          and others.

                          David
                        • Tyragon Adventures
                          ... Well they had to counter a good idea (killing Bucky) with a bad idea (killing Thor)... ... As you said, we re in complete agreement. I am... amazed...
                          Message 12 of 24 , Nov 8, 2011
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                            > They'd already killed 'Bucky'.
                            > They had to kill Thor too?

                            Well they had to counter a good idea (killing Bucky) with a bad idea (killing Thor)...

                            > Didn't anyone at Marvel have the brains to remember
                            > they just brought Thor back from the dead just
                            > a few years ago? This is majorly dumbass.

                            As you said, we're in complete agreement.

                            I am... amazed... boggled... that JMS brought THOR back with such a massive impact - and had fans screaming how great it was - then, handed it to Fraction, who literally snuffed the flame in mere seconds.

                            I just don't get it. And perhaps I am too bitter at how the Mighty Thor has gone down, that I can't even enjoy Journey Into Mystery... I like the notions, ideas, etc behind it - it seems like a great story, but I can't enjoy it for some reason. Perhaps because it's all pieces of Fraction's THOR work (Loki alive - again - this time as a kid, Tyr being dead, the 4 Women things - that I have forgotten what they're called) - all pieces of Fraction's Thor. Kudos to whoever is writing the new JIM, to be able to use Fraction's Thor and try to make something of it. That takes a talented writer. But I think I am just too miffed.

                            > > Not a rumor.
                            > Oh, for.....
                            > Sigh.
                            > Dumb, dumb, dumb.

                            Here you go:
                            http://www.comicscavern.com/storage/post-images/tanarus-1313086053.jpg

                            I believe it all comes down to every writer wants to really leave their mark.

                            We got Red Norvell.
                            We got Beta Ray Bill.
                            We got Thunderstrike. Twice.
                            We got... who knows, who else.

                            Every writer seems to want to make their own version of THOR and write them in the Universe.

                            And make them have an impact.

                            This, to me, shows a lack of skill in writing the character properly. With Beta Ray Bill, at least, Walt was still writing Thor. He didn't need to excuse Thor out of existence. Thor continued to exist within Thor, having his epic Norse like adventures, while Beta Ray Bill was off in space with Sif.

                            I think perhaps, that's one of the reasons I liked Walt's run. He proved he could write Thor. He could make Thor epic. He could even introduce another character, such as Beta Ray Bill, without diminishing (in my humble view) the awesomeness and impact of Thor.

                            All these other writers, find the need to whisk Thor away, because they don't know how to write him, so they create their own version of Thor that they can just do whatever with, because there's no pre-established history.

                            I need to stop ranting now.
                          • Tyragon Adventures
                            ... Well, I am just guessing... You know, I have been collecting the missing issues of the previous THOR run, which includes a lot of Jurgen s run. I have to
                            Message 13 of 24 , Nov 8, 2011
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                              > > Our proper THOR will probably return just before the
                              > > release of the THOR 2 movie...
                              > And when it that? A year an a half?
                              > This is pitiful.
                              > Fraction sucks. Marvel is dumbass.
                              > Excuse me while I indulge
                              > in primal scream therapy.
                              > Sigh.

                              Well, I am just guessing...

                              You know, I have been collecting the missing issues of the previous THOR run, which includes a lot of Jurgen's run. I have to say - I know everyone hates Jurgens and his run on Thor (near the end) - but I have to say, I enjoy it more than I do/did Fraction's run of THOR.

                              I thought it was interesting what Jurgens did. He took Thor and turned him, in just about every aspect - into Odin. (He was more heavy weight, as Odin is traditionally shown; he had given up his eye, etc). While Thor's son, Magni had in every bit become 'Thor' - in appearance, attitude (his affections for Earth and a mortal woman), and becoming Prince of Asgard. So Jurgens at least CONTINUED to write Thor, but in the form of Thor's son Magni. I thought THAT was at least interesting. It made for a great read, compared to what Fraction has given us; which to me, shows no thought, no planning, nothing. Blank. Zilch.
                            • Tyragon Adventures
                              ... My only fear would be that they d treat it as a loss of interest in THOR and can the book entirely. I think it s much better, rather than only voice
                              Message 14 of 24 , Nov 8, 2011
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                                > I saw we all show Marvel what we think of this travesty
                                > and stop buying until Thor is returned to his proper majesty.

                                My only fear would be that they'd treat it as a loss of interest in THOR and can the book entirely. I think it's much better, rather than only voice complaints here, but steadily write the folks at Marvel.com and complain about what's happening in the pages of THOR.

                                And remind them, frequently.
                              • Tyragon Adventures
                                ... Funny you should mention that! So... this is the first time, ever, I have collected more DC titles than Marvel. So as you may or may not know, DC
                                Message 15 of 24 , Nov 8, 2011
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                                  > > I saw we all show Marvel what we think of this travesty
                                  > > and stop buying until Thor is returned to his proper majesty.
                                  > Funny you should mention that.
                                  > I am 'so' pissed at Marvel
                                  > for this stupidity, I've been
                                  > thinking about dropping their line
                                  > entirely and switching to DC
                                  > and others.

                                  Funny you should mention that!

                                  So... this is the first time, ever, I have collected more DC titles than Marvel. So as you may or may not know, DC relaunched all of their titles to #1's... they called it the "New 52" but without the confusion.

                                  Let me say this... I have always hated Superman and Batman (both always seemed so damn unbeatable)... well, I am proudly collecting Superman, both Batman titles, Nightwing, Teen Titans, Legions, and about 20 other DC titles. I am THOROUGHLY enjoying DC right now. They're dishing out nothing but awesome, and each week, I seem to pick up a new DC title to try (and get hooked on, every time thus far!) because I am hungry for more. I _KNOW_ it won't last forever. New artists and writers will eventually come aboard and change things; or they may pull the wool over everyone's eyes and resume proper numbering... but for now, for now I am LOVING DC.

                                  And I never thought I'd ever - EVER - say that.
                                • Lundonj
                                  T, Well, someone had to enjoy that run.  I really am all for whatever THOR stories people enjoy, I know I like some stories other people don t get excited
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Nov 8, 2011
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                                    T,

                                    Well, someone had to enjoy that run.  I really am all for whatever THOR stories people enjoy, I know I like some stories other people don't get excited about.  The problem with the Jurgens' run was a couple things.  One, it literally killed the title and the sales dropped from about 50K readers to just above 30,000 and got the series canned.  In part it was due to the length of the story, which was several years in all.  The second part is, I think he turned Thor far more into Doctor Doom than Odin.  Odin didn't care two bits about humanity and would never make the effort to lord over them.  Thor's key mission his entire life was not only to serve humanity, but respect their freedom.  In a million years the character would not "conquer" them, kill his life long friends in the form of the Avengers and then become a leader so horrific he wasn't worthy to hold Mjolnir.

                                    Now, I loved Magni, because he was "Thor", so I agree with that clear comparison.  Thor wasn't Odin, he was far worse than Odin had been on his worst day, at least until the garbage in Fear Itself.  It is the honor and nobility of the Asgardians that BOTH Fraction and Jurgens completely IGNORE.

                                    When Fraction wrote Thor that way in AGES OF THUNDER it clicked, because those were younger versions of Thor sans Donald Blake.  It doesn't work when we hit a reset button back to a Thor who is basically an %$#hole.  Jurgens' was worse, because he was a jerk who killed his friends and he captured and controlled the people he swore to protect, again, a Doctor Doom wet dream.

                                    -Don


                                    ________________________________
                                    From: Tyragon Adventures <ravenflight.sabretooth@...>
                                    To: thorfans@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 10:02 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [ Thor Fans ] FEAR ITSELF #7

                                    > > Our proper THOR will probably return just before the
                                    > > release of the THOR 2 movie...
                                    > And when it that? A year an a half?
                                    > This is pitiful.
                                    > Fraction sucks. Marvel is dumbass.
                                    > Excuse me while I indulge
                                    > in primal scream therapy.
                                    > Sigh.

                                    Well, I am just guessing...

                                    You know, I have been collecting the missing issues of the previous THOR run, which includes a lot of Jurgen's run. I have to say - I know everyone hates Jurgens and his run on Thor (near the end) - but I have to say, I enjoy it more than I do/did Fraction's run of THOR.

                                    I thought it was interesting what Jurgens did. He took Thor and turned him, in just about every aspect - into Odin. (He was more heavy weight, as Odin is traditionally shown; he had given up his eye, etc). While Thor's son, Magni had in every bit become 'Thor' - in appearance, attitude (his affections for Earth and a mortal woman), and becoming Prince of Asgard. So Jurgens at least CONTINUED to write Thor, but in the form of Thor's son Magni. I thought THAT was at least interesting. It made for a great read, compared to what Fraction has given us; which to me, shows no thought, no planning, nothing. Blank. Zilch.




                                    ------------------------------------

                                    ***********  THOR FANS 2011 The Year of Thor  ***********Yahoo! Groups Links



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • drobbins
                                    Bill said, ... Did you know that they killed off all the Ultimate Asgardians? And it was in the last arc that Ulty Thor came back to life after being----can
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Nov 8, 2011
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                                      Bill said,
                                      > Not me brother. I'm checking out Ultimate Thor in the Ultimates. I haven't
                                      > read any Ultimate comics since the last time Thor was dead. Hmmm

                                      Did you know that they killed off all the Ultimate Asgardians?

                                      And it was in the last arc that Ulty Thor came back to life
                                      after being----can you guess?---'dead'.

                                      Can't anyone tell a story anymore without
                                      a character dying???
                                      How did they manage during the 'decades'
                                      of the Silver Age to tell really great stories---
                                      without someone dying every other issue?

                                      I really like Ulty Thor, too.
                                      And you know what?
                                      It wouldn't surprise me a bit
                                      if Marvel kills him off, too.

                                      David
                                    • Tyragon Adventures
                                      ... Oh, I am not saying he didn t kill the series. Because I am JUST getting these issues, I am able to read them back to back, without waiting. So the issue
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Nov 9, 2011
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                                        > The problem with the Jurgens' run was a couple things.
                                        > One, it literally killed the title and the sales
                                        > dropped from about 50K readers to just above 30,000
                                        > and got the series canned.

                                        Oh, I am not saying he didn't kill the series. Because I am JUST getting these issues, I am able to read them back to back, without waiting. So the issue of running several years, that you mentioned, doesn't impact my reading that others, who collected month to month, had to endure.

                                        > In part it was due to the length of the story, which
                                        > was several years in all.  The second part is, I think
                                        > he turned Thor far more into Doctor Doom than Odin.

                                        Well, yes, because he turned Thor into the bad guy in the series, whom Magni had to go against. Yes, he was like Doctor Doom, controlling everything. No doubt. But in many ways, as I mentioned, he turned Thor into Odin, by appearance (more weight, lost eye), didn't say he had Odin's attitude. :) Magni became "Thor" and Thor became Doctor Doom with Odin Power.

                                        I wouldn't be surprised, unless there is a VERY drastic turn of events, if Fraction doesn't sink Thor as Jurfgens did before. The difference is, I can actually find things I enjoyed in Jurgens run, while the same can not be said about Fraction's run thus far (and by the looks of the future, not to be found there either).
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