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A Rant In C Minor

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  • drobbins
    You have to Marvel (yes, pun intended) at human delusion. It raises the query---among many others---: At what point does obstinsacy equate to stupidity? What
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 1, 2007
      You have to Marvel (yes, pun intended)
      at human delusion.

      It raises the query---among many others---:
      'At what point does obstinsacy
      equate to stupidity?'

      What brings this up?

      Your amiable reviewer recently
      reread Marvel's run of WAR OF THE WORLDS.
      It was a series in AMAZING ADVENTURES
      back in the '70's.

      And it has a pertinent bearing on THOR.

      How?
      Read on.

      Your reviewer is a WOTW nut.
      He loves the Wells original,
      and has every variant, whether movies,
      books, or comics, he has ever
      come across.

      Anyway, Marvel hyped their
      series with their usual aplomb,
      and your reviewer eagerly
      dived in.

      Brothers and sisters, it sucked.

      After trying a few creative
      teams, Marvel settled on
      Don McGregor as scribe
      and Craig Russell as renderer.

      If you ever want to see the
      word 'pretenious' brought to
      comic life, you need look
      no further.

      Condescension, pandering,
      self-indulgence, the writing
      had it all.

      As for the art, think Steranko---
      without Steranko.
      Oh, it was serviceable, we will
      concede that.

      Combined, the result was a comic
      you had to force yourself to wade
      through---and it took forever
      because the writer was so
      in love with his own words,
      and because the action was
      reduced to a borefest.

      The point of all this?

      After a promising start,
      sales started to slip
      and continued to slip.
      Marvel jumped in to
      acknowledge the fact
      on the letters page,
      and to beg that their
      zombies read the book in
      greater numbers.

      For you see---Marvel contended
      that their WOTW was 'brilliant',
      that it 'deserved' an audience,
      and surely if more tried it,
      more would love it.

      Here is where the delusion
      enters in.

      Sales continued to plummet and
      the WOTW was cancelled.

      Fast forward several decades.

      THOR was doing nicely enough
      to sustain publication. Then Jurgens
      got it into his head to give us
      'Thor as tyrant'. Sales started to drop.
      Marvel threw in some great artists,
      but sales continued to fall.

      Marvel then got on the hype bandwagon
      and urged its legions of zombies to
      give THOR a try, that Jurgens was
      'brilliant'---the exact word used---
      and that if only more people would try it,
      they would love it.

      But sales continued to erode away,
      and ultimately the title was cancelled.

      Your reviewer only brings this up
      because he hopes---nay, he prays---
      that the new THOR scribe
      has a better grasp of reality
      than Jurgens and McGregor.
      He hopes---nay, he prays---
      that JMS will not give us stupidity
      hailed as brilliance, and sound
      the death-knell of Thor in the process.

      Let's all support the new title
      as ardently as it deserves, and if it
      truly is brilliant---or even decent---
      mayhap we will see the Real Deal
      restored to his rightful exalted
      status in the Marvel pantheon.

      :)
    • Don
      ... They really did throw some outstanding artists on that run. I very much enjoyed Scott Eaton s take on Thor, as well as Andrea DiVito s amazing work on the
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 1, 2007
        --- In thorfans@yahoogroups.com, "drobbins" <drobbins@...> wrote:
        > THOR was doing nicely enough
        > to sustain publication. Then Jurgens
        > got it into his head to give us
        > 'Thor as tyrant'. Sales started to drop.
        > Marvel threw in some great artists,
        > but sales continued to fall.
        >

        They really did throw some outstanding artists on that run. I very
        much enjoyed Scott Eaton's take on Thor, as well as Andrea DiVito's
        amazing work on the last arc. Sales on the story spoke for
        themselves, the series was in freefall from #30-#80's and only spiked
        at the end with the connection to the dreaded DISASSEMBLED storyline.

        I honestly think we have a writer on board who is suggesting Thor can
        work, without having to reinvent the wheel. I think JMS is just
        going to dust it off, change the setting enough to invite *NEW* faces
        to visit the legend and let the stories do their literal magic.

        I hope so anyway.


        > Let's all support the new title
        > as ardently as it deserves, and if it
        > truly is brilliant---or even decent---
        > mayhap we will see the Real Deal
        > restored to his rightful exalted
        > status in the Marvel pantheon.
        >

        Agreed! A THOR series was the start of this Marvel foundation, and a
        corner of the MU that is very unique. A unique angle of fantasy and
        mythology that should be played up and not ignored, in my humble
        estimation.


        -Don
      • superzmanx2000
        ... He didn t seem to feel that way about our friend Spider-Man. My biggest concern isn t that it won t sell well-- JMS s track record speaks for itself in
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 3, 2007
          > I honestly think we have a writer on board who is suggesting Thor can
          > work, without having to reinvent the wheel. I think JMS is just
          > going to dust it off, change the setting enough to invite *NEW* faces
          > to visit the legend and let the stories do their literal magic.
          >
          > I hope so anyway.

          He didn't seem to feel that way about our friend Spider-Man. My biggest concern isn't that it
          won't sell well-- JMS's track record speaks for itself in that dept. It's that JMS will need to put
          his own stamp on the character, and fundamentally alter Thor in some way or write Thor out
          of character.

          I'm giving it a try, but I am concerned that Thor won't be Thor. Plus, I'm not too thrilled about
          the costume.
        • Don
          ... can ... faces ... biggest concern isn t that it ... dept. It s that JMS will need to put ... some way or write Thor out ... Plus, I m not too thrilled
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 3, 2007
            --- In thorfans@yahoogroups.com, "superzmanx2000" <riverskiedis@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > > I honestly think we have a writer on board who is suggesting Thor
            can
            > > work, without having to reinvent the wheel. I think JMS is just
            > > going to dust it off, change the setting enough to invite *NEW*
            faces
            > > to visit the legend and let the stories do their literal magic.
            > >
            > > I hope so anyway.
            >
            > He didn't seem to feel that way about our friend Spider-Man. My
            biggest concern isn't that it
            > won't sell well-- JMS's track record speaks for itself in that
            dept. It's that JMS will need to put
            > his own stamp on the character, and fundamentally alter Thor in
            some way or write Thor out
            > of character.
            >
            > I'm giving it a try, but I am concerned that Thor won't be Thor.
            Plus, I'm not too thrilled about
            > the costume.
            >


            Every writer in comics since...well, since Stan Lee has 'added their
            own stamp' to characters along the way. And today's writers are
            almost expected to change something or their pitch will not sell to
            the editors. Today's Marvel is all about change, for better or
            worse, and mostly worse in my humble estimation. When I look at
            today's line of nearly 100 books, I only count a handful that are in
            better shape than worse for wear under their latest directions.

            Astonishing X-Men, X-Men First Class, Hulk, DD and Iron Fist all seem
            to be an improvement contrasted to most of the other Marvel comics
            that leave me scratching my head.

            DC is having some similar changes, but they do seem to at least honor
            the 'roots' of each character and what makes them tick. Geoff Johns'
            Hal Jordan is a bit more cavalier, but the heart of the ol' jet
            fighter pilot (the fearless Chuck Yeager mold) is still there.


            -Don
          • superzmanx2000
            I guess my core fear is someone wanting to make Thor more like the myths and then making him more vicious and wanting to dominate mankind and be treated as a
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 3, 2007
              I guess my core fear is someone wanting to make Thor more like the myths and then
              making him more vicious and wanting to dominate mankind and be treated as a God. I'm
              fearing a line of lgoic like, "Well, if you were a God, wouldn't you just do whatever you
              want and think the opinions of mortals to be below you? Plus, he's a Viking, so he doesn't
              have the scruples that other heroes do. In my first issue, I'm going to have Thor take a
              dump on Hawkeye's chest, just to show that this isn't your father's Thor."

              I don't care what they do, but I want Thor to remain the epitome of heroism, fearlessness,
              and valor in the MU. The ultimate warrior hero, the one that Lee and Kirby wrote.

              > Every writer in comics since...well, since Stan Lee has 'added their
              > own stamp' to characters along the way. And today's writers are
              > almost expected to change something or their pitch will not sell to
              > the editors. Today's Marvel is all about change, for better or
              > worse, and mostly worse in my humble estimation. When I look at
              > today's line of nearly 100 books, I only count a handful that are in
              > better shape than worse for wear under their latest directions.
              >
              > Astonishing X-Men, X-Men First Class, Hulk, DD and Iron Fist all seem
              > to be an improvement contrasted to most of the other Marvel comics
              > that leave me scratching my head.
              >
              > DC is having some similar changes, but they do seem to at least honor
              > the 'roots' of each character and what makes them tick. Geoff Johns'
              > Hal Jordan is a bit more cavalier, but the heart of the ol' jet
              > fighter pilot (the fearless Chuck Yeager mold) is still there.
            • Don
              ... myths and then ... treated as a God. I m ... you just do whatever you ... a Viking, so he doesn t ... going to have Thor take a ... Thor. ... heroism,
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 3, 2007
                --- In thorfans@yahoogroups.com, "superzmanx2000" <riverskiedis@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I guess my core fear is someone wanting to make Thor more like the
                myths and then
                > making him more vicious and wanting to dominate mankind and be
                treated as a God. I'm
                > fearing a line of lgoic like, "Well, if you were a God, wouldn't
                you just do whatever you
                > want and think the opinions of mortals to be below you? Plus, he's
                a Viking, so he doesn't
                > have the scruples that other heroes do. In my first issue, I'm
                going to have Thor take a
                > dump on Hawkeye's chest, just to show that this isn't your father's
                Thor."
                >
                > I don't care what they do, but I want Thor to remain the epitome of
                heroism, fearlessness,
                > and valor in the MU. The ultimate warrior hero, the one that Lee
                and Kirby wrote.
                >


                Part of that fear has been addressed by the new premise. I think the
                entire set-up is that Thor is back to wanting to best protect
                Midgard. The days of ruling Midgard appear well in our collective
                rear-view mirror for the time being. The interviews suggest Asgard
                will be working with around the community in Oklahoma.

                At first glance, it sounds okay - JMS gets a substantive signature
                change AND Thor is back to wanting to help humanity and not Lord over
                them.

                I don't think the mythological Thor was quite as mean as some
                perceptions either, although certainly a bit more self-centered.

                Anyway, I'm with you. I want the relentless, honorable warrior
                back. The one who looked out for the little guy and *never* backed
                down from anyone or anything.


                -Don
              • thundergod29
                ... Uh, Dude, you apparently know squat about the myths. In the myths, Thor is the FRIEND of mankind, not out to dominate mankind.... If he stops at your
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 5, 2007
                  ---

                  Uh, Dude, you apparently know squat about the myths.
                  In the myths, Thor is the FRIEND of mankind, not out to dominate mankind....
                  If he stops at your house, he shares his last bit of food with you.
                  In one myth told in the Heimskringla, after most of Scandinavia has been converted by force, Thor pops up on the ship of St. Olaf and verbally castigates the King for robbing men of the freedom and happiness.

                  Thor was the god of the farmers and common man, and for that matter the god of justice, not just a "warrior" god. The warrior class revered Odin.
                  Marvel's Thor went sort of overboard at times with the whole "prince of Asgard/nobility" deal that is not present in the myths.
                  For example, in one myth, Thor and Odin meet on a bridge and Odin mocks Thor for his "raggedy breeks" which "show his bare arse," in places.
                  When mythic Thor does brag, what does he brag about? Helping mankind by sending the rains and fighting off the frost giants.

                  In Norse lore, there are many heroes who are the epitomy of what later was called "Chivalry." The really nasty characters like Egil Skallagrimson stand out for not having any.


                  In thorfans@yahoogroups.com, "superzmanx2000" <riverskiedis@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I guess my core fear is someone wanting to make Thor more like the myths and then
                  > making him more vicious and wanting to dominate mankind and be treated as a God. I'm
                  > fearing a line of lgoic like, "Well, if you were a God, wouldn't you just do whatever you
                  > want and think the opinions of mortals to be below you? Plus, he's a Viking, so he doesn't
                  > have the scruples that other heroes do. In my first issue, I'm going to have Thor take a
                  > dump on Hawkeye's chest, just to show that this isn't your father's Thor."
                  >
                  > I don't care what they do, but I want Thor to remain the epitome of heroism, fearlessness,
                  > and valor in the MU. The ultimate warrior hero, the one that Lee and Kirby wrote.
                  >
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