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Re: [ Thor Fans ] Hacktime :)

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  • Lundonj
    ... One thing Bendis has, is a *huge* online fan base that is very vocal. I honestly think that is why he gets so much hype. I ll say again, I think the guy
    Message 1 of 25 , Aug 1, 2004
      --- Jeff Deal <jjdeal_99@...> wrote:

      > On a couple of the boards that I frequent I've
      > noticed quite a few messages that basically go
      > something like "I never was into the Avengers before
      > but this issue really rocked!" I wonder if Bendis
      > took
      > over their beloved X-men and started killing off
      > their
      > favorite characters if they would feel the same.

      One thing Bendis has, is a *huge* online fan base that
      is very vocal. I honestly think that is why he gets
      so much hype. I'll say again, I think the guy is
      talented, but superhero stuff is not his specialty.
      Or, he is reinventing Frank Miller deconstructionism
      by taking it to new levels of unhappy good guys.

      I really can't see the hardcore Avengers' fans getting
      excited at the end of this story.

      > I don't wanna say I told you so but...I said that
      > the Ultimates would be the deathknell of the
      > Avengers
      > and so it has come to be, the Avengers will be
      > replaced by The New Avengers (which won't be the
      > Avengers at all) and when they do the animated
      > Avengers it will be based on the ultimates. The
      > Avengers are dead long live the New Ultimate
      > Avengers.

      I think I have to say both yes and no to your
      observation. I agree Ultimates was the first step in
      this direction of destroying the base concept of the
      Avengers. However, I don't think they are going to
      ape Ultimates. They just needed similar hype and
      violence to pull in a big crowd of non-Avengers'
      readers to witness the show. I think we will get the
      Anti-Avengers. A group of high profile, solo guys
      that never worked on the team for a reason. Of course
      there will be a couple of acceptions to pull the
      remnants of the old series' audience over.


      > I think that BRB will get an extended battle
      > sequence and we will see several more 2nd bananas
      > get
      > it while he fights to the the death.

      Sounds about right. Sad to say. Maybe a Bill Goes To
      Hel story someday?

      -Don



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    • Lundonj
      ... I guess Marvel didn t think any Jack of Hearts fans got kicked in the teeth hard enough the first death. They had to roll him in as a zombie, kill him
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 1, 2004
        --- drobbins <drobbins@...> wrote:

        > Let's see.
        > In the current AVENGERS,
        > Jack of Hearts, Ant-Man, and the Vision
        > all bit the big one.
        > Who's next?
        > Any players?
        > I'm thinking that hackboy will work his way up
        > to the founding Avengers issue by issue, so next
        > issue it will be She-Hulk and the Falcon.
        > After that, any guesses?
        > As one of the bad guys notes, there are a 'lot'
        > of Avengers, and the killing has just begun.

        I guess Marvel didn't think any Jack of Hearts fans
        got kicked in the teeth hard enough the first death.
        They had to roll him in as a zombie, kill him again
        and take another gem from the Marvel Premiere days and
        blow up Scott Lang too.

        Falcon had a couple Marvel Premiers stories, he could
        be in danger. She-Hulk has an ongoing title (as Thor
        loses his main series), so she should be safe for a
        few more months. My next guesses are Scarlet Witch
        and Hank Pym on the Who-Wacked-Next contest.

        > As for the Real Deal, le's see.
        > Pretty much everyone except Sif,
        > Volstagg and Beta Ray Bill have been offed.
        > My money is on BRB, alas, to go next.
        > Any guesses here?

        Yeah, Kill Bill vol. 3 (sans Tarentino) is on the
        slate next. I guess. :-p My fave bizarre-headed
        alien is in big trouble.

        > Isn't this great fun?
        > We should have done this before when
        > dealing with hackjobs like this.
        >
        > Remember the hack's timeless motto;
        > 'When you can't write, kill everyone.'

        Welcome to the generation of Frank Miller fans running
        the business now. DC is getting just as dark in many
        of their corners too.

        -Don



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      • drobbins
        Jeff said, ... That s the implicaton based on the final page or so where the bad guys are talking about killing them all off. ... It sucks. It sucks bigtime.
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 1, 2004
          Jeff said,
          >>> Well if they start calling in all the reserves, we
          >could see them start falling in bunches.

          That's the implicaton based on the final
          page or so where the 'bad guys' are talking
          about killing them all off.

          >>>Won't that be
          >more fun than a barrel of dead monkeys?

          It sucks.
          It sucks bigtime.
          It sucks because the Q sucks and Bendis
          sucks and fan who says this is great stuff
          sucks.
          Oh, forgive me.
          I'm not being pseudo-intellectual enough.
          Permit me to clarify: it reeks of self-indulgent
          talent-less pretension.
          THEY reek of self-indulgent
          talent-less pretension.
          And anyone, and I do mean ANYONE,
          who buys into it, has an intellect
          as shallow as their butt cracks.

          >>> On a couple of the boards that I frequent I've
          >noticed quite a few messages that basically go
          >something like "I never was into the Avengers before
          >but this issue really rocked!"

          As Don notes, Bendis in effect has
          this sort of in-grown publiciity machine.
          For reasons that have absolutely
          nothing to do with comics.

          >>>I wonder if Bendis took
          >over their beloved X-men and started killing off their
          >favorite characters if they would feel the same.

          LOL

          >>> I don't wanna say I told you so but...I said that
          >the Ultimates would be the deathknell of the Avengers
          >and so it has come to be

          We knew from the get-go, despite the Q's feeble
          comments to the contrary, that he planned
          to completely revamp the core Marvel
          titles in his own misguided image.
          The whole Ultimate line---from Spidey
          to X-Soaps to Avengers---was
          always eventually intended
          as the 'new' Marvel.

          >>>>replaced by The New Avengers (which won't be the
          >Avengers at all) and when they do the animated
          >Avengers it will be based on the ultimates. The
          >Avengers are dead long live the New Ultimate Avengers.

          I've surpised myself by taking
          a perplexing philosophical view.
          Perplexing in that, while I'm mad as hell,
          after five decades I've finally realized
          'this' is the comic biz.
          This has been going since I started reading
          comics.
          Heck, that was when they revamped the Golden Age
          greats and the Silver Age were introduced.

          Comics has always been about change.
          What's so unusual, perhaps, is that
          Marvel's core titles remained fundamentally
          unchanged for so long.

          >>> I think that BRB will get an extended battle
          >sequence and we will see several more 2nd bananas get
          >it while he fights to the the death.


          I walked into the local comic store this week
          and the comic guy rushed over and said
          he was sorry, but had I heard the news?
          "Marvel is killing off Thor!"
          I told him I knew, and no, I wasn't surprised,
          since it had been a long time brewing, and hey,
          besides which, Jurgens had killed Thor off
          four years ago.

          I then asked if Marvel's whole Avengers Disassembled
          riff was resulting in a jump in sales, and he told me not
          at all.

          I then shocked him by informing him that after it's
          over, I'm slashing all Marvel titles except
          for SON OF ASGARD and ULTIMATES.

          I refuse to read any more of Bendis' crap.
          I refuse to see Silver Age classics retold
          so tritely.

          Why spend the money when there are
          so many truly great Silver Age issues
          I don't have yet, and can sometimes
          buy for about the same price if not
          pristine?

          Right now I'm rereading the first 60 issues
          of the first volume of AVENGERS, and man,
          is it ever fun.

          :)
          David
        • Jeff Deal
          ... Actually I didn t mean that either I should have put a / between New and Ultimate, I just meant that it was the end of the REAL Avengers era. They just
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 1, 2004
            --- Lundonj <lundonj@...> wrote:

            >
            > --- Jeff Deal <jjdeal_99@...> wrote:
            > Avengers are dead long live the New Ultimate
            > > Avengers.
            >
            > I think I have to say both yes and no to your
            > observation. I agree Ultimates was the first step
            > in
            > this direction of destroying the base concept of the
            > Avengers. However, I don't think they are going to
            > ape Ultimates.

            Actually I didn't mean that either I should have put
            a / between New and Ultimate, I just meant that it was
            the end of the REAL Avengers era.

            They just needed similar hype and
            > violence to pull in a big crowd of non-Avengers'
            > readers to witness the show. I think we will get
            > the
            > Anti-Avengers. A group of high profile, solo guys
            > that never worked on the team for a reason. Of
            > course
            > there will be a couple of acceptions to pull the
            > remnants of the old series' audience over.

            So who do you think? Spiderman? Daredevil? The Hulk?
            Wolverine? Who else is Hot right now? Electra? The
            White Queen? Beast? Got to have some more mutants in
            it.... How can you have a comic nowadays without at
            least 3 or 4 mutants in it? You know I never was a big
            X-fan but I'm absolutely starting to hate those mutie
            bastards! I guess I'm just becoming a bitter old man.

            So who get's kept? Cap and Iron man would be my guess.

            -Jeff




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          • drobbins
            Don said, ... Did that frost you as much as it frosted me??? Bendis bites. ... Yeah, I m waiting for the axe to fall on poor Hank. That s okay. It ll give me
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 1, 2004
              Don said,
              >>>I guess Marvel didn't think any Jack of Hearts fans
              >got kicked in the teeth hard enough the first death.
              >They had to roll him in as a zombie, kill him again
              >and take another gem from the Marvel Premiere days and
              >blow up Scott Lang too.

              Did that frost you as much as it frosted me???
              Bendis bites.

              >>>>Falcon had a couple Marvel Premiers stories, he could
              >be in danger. She-Hulk has an ongoing title (as Thor
              >loses his main series), so she should be safe for a
              >few more months. My next guesses are Scarlet Witch
              >and Hank Pym on the Who-Wacked-Next contest.

              Yeah, I'm waiting for the axe to fall on poor Hank.
              That's okay.
              It'll give me even more of a reason to finally
              kiss Marvel off.
              They're long overdue.

              >>> >Yeah, Kill Bill vol. 3 (sans Tarentino) is on the
              >slate next. I guess. :-p My fave bizarre-headed
              >alien is in big trouble

              Isn't this amazing?
              Just look back at all the posts the past
              couple of months. Look at how
              many are about 'killing'.
              And Marvel is just getting
              warmed up.
              Marvel bites.

              >>>Welcome to the generation of Frank Miller fans running
              >the business now. DC is getting just as dark in many
              >of their corners too.

              Sigh.
              As you well are aware, I warned of this DECADES
              ago.

              From what I hear, even Miller was appalled by the trend.
              And the stupidity.

              David
            • Lundonj
              ... I understand why Marvel is doing it. They are a business first. Of the base 200-250,000 remaining monthly readers, we can presume the hardcore Avengers
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 1, 2004
                --- drobbins <drobbins@...> wrote:
                > As Don notes, Bendis in effect has
                > this sort of in-grown publiciity machine.
                > For reasons that have absolutely
                > nothing to do with comics.

                I understand why Marvel is doing it. They are a
                business first. Of the base 200-250,000 remaining
                monthly readers, we can presume the hardcore Avengers'
                fan base is near 50,000. This kind of hype and death
                will draw in up to 50,000 more readers on the new
                concept.

                The problem is, when the new car smell wears off in a
                year or less, most of the old Avengers fans will be
                gone as will the new audience that showed up to watch
                the train wreck. At that point, we could get a revamp
                that looks a bit closer to the classic book.

                So, the thing I don't get is, why anger anyone? Why
                not just launch a New Avengers without killing the old
                ones? There are 5 billion X-books, the world could
                sustain two interesting Avengers' style books.

                DC may (and that is still a "may") be realizing their
                mistake of killing Hal Jordan. They didn't do it right
                and now they need to revamp Green Lantern
                sales...again.

                Although, I would suggest that a number of long time
                fans are losing their patience with this stuff, as
                David seems to have gone over the edge. :-)

                > Comics has always been about change.
                > What's so unusual, perhaps, is that
                > Marvel's core titles remained fundamentally
                > unchanged for so long.

                I think you remarked last week, on the upside, it has
                been a helluva run for Thor. We got 500 plus issues,
                about 350 appearances in Avengers and a few hundred
                more across the MU.

                When Disassembled is done, I'll be mostly done as
                well. Although, Kirkman's Marvel Team-Up looks like
                the last salute to the classic MU. It will include
                tons of heroes. And I might get suckered in if they
                start up another Black Panther series (as rumored).

                Thus, I'd be reading SOA, Ultimates (unless Ulty Thor
                turns out to be a fraud), and Marvel Team-Up. And one
                surprise, Astonishing X-Men. I haven't read mutie
                books in a decade. Maybe longer. This TV writer Joss
                Whedon seems to really like the characters and he is
                even bringing one back from the dead (Jean Gray or
                Colossus). His stuff is a bit of throwback. I hope
                he rids the Universe of the modified look of Beast
                too. :-)

                Otherwise, I'm reading and enjoying 3-4 DC books, 3-4
                Image books and two from Dark Horse (my other
                warriors, Conan and Usagi).


                > I then asked if Marvel's whole Avengers Disassembled
                > riff was resulting in a jump in sales, and he told
                > me not
                > at all.

                Initial reports are that Disassembled has pushed sales
                on Thor about seven percent, closer to 10 percent on
                Cap. I'll post the final numbers when I see them.
                Again, I think the "new" book will probably start with
                100K plus.


                > Why spend the money when there are
                > so many truly great Silver Age issues
                > I don't have yet, and can sometimes
                > buy for about the same price if not
                > pristine?

                Did you see the Kirby collected hardcover edition in
                the catalog this month? I have to snag that one.

                > Right now I'm rereading the first 60 issues
                > of the first volume of AVENGERS, and man,
                > is it ever fun.

                Somewhere in the next few months, I'm going to read
                every Thor comic I have, just for fun. Starting with
                JIM #83 (or a close facsimile thereof).

                -Don



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              • Lundonj
                ... Ah. Fair enough. :-) ... I m weird about the X-Men. When I first started reading them, they were in the reprint phase and had low, hard to find print
                Message 7 of 25 , Aug 1, 2004
                  --- Jeff Deal <jjdeal_99@...> wrote:
                  > Actually I didn't mean that either I should have
                  > put
                  > a / between New and Ultimate, I just meant that it
                  > was
                  > the end of the REAL Avengers era.

                  Ah. Fair enough. :-)


                  > So who do you think? Spiderman? Daredevil? The
                  > Hulk?
                  > Wolverine? Who else is Hot right now? Electra? The
                  > White Queen? Beast? Got to have some more mutants in
                  > it.... How can you have a comic nowadays without at
                  > least 3 or 4 mutants in it? You know I never was a
                  > big
                  > X-fan but I'm absolutely starting to hate those
                  > mutie
                  > bastards! I guess I'm just becoming a bitter old
                  > man.

                  I'm weird about the X-Men. When I first started
                  reading them, they were in the reprint phase and had
                  low, hard to find print runs. I jumped on board
                  shortly after their "All New, All Different" launch.
                  The Claremont/Byrne run still stands out as one of the
                  strongest "Bronze Era" runs ever. I left shortly
                  after Byrne did and tried half a dozen times to get
                  back into the series. It was epically bad every time
                  I picked up an X-book (thousands of new
                  heartless/soul-less characters, convoluted plot lines,
                  over-the-top drama, bleh).

                  Until Astonishing X-Men. Good stuff. They even have
                  a letters page!!!

                  > So who get's kept? Cap and Iron man would be my
                  > guess.

                  The only quote from Bendis on the new lineup I recall
                  is, "Stan Lee's best characters." This means they
                  leave Wolvy off the team I hope. My guess? Spidey,
                  DD, Cap, Hulk, Dr. Strange, Iron Man and Wasp (or
                  Scarlet Witch-- whichever of the two survives).

                  -Don (wonders if Bendis knows Cap is a Kirby/Simon guy)



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                • Lundonj
                  ... Well, I saw the Jack zombie preview shot a couple months back when it was in an article to hype the story. So, shock wasn t my reaction, it was a clear
                  Message 8 of 25 , Aug 1, 2004
                    --- drobbins <drobbins@...> wrote:
                    > Did that frost you as much as it frosted me???
                    > Bendis bites.

                    Well, I saw the Jack zombie preview shot a couple
                    months back when it was in an article to hype the
                    story. So, shock wasn't my reaction, it was a clear
                    disrespect of the character. Bendis can toss in
                    one-liners like he realizes every character is
                    someone's favorite, yet, eliminate them so quickly and
                    needlessly.

                    Another hyped up author, Brad Metzler, who is writing
                    IDENTITY CRISIS for DC, his story is as dark, but it
                    has a lot more depth. There is no mystery in this
                    Avengers story, no viable reason to kill. Jack should
                    have blown them all Hel in the opening shot so they
                    can start the new series. It will save time and
                    money, and the drama will be the same.

                    > Yeah, I'm waiting for the axe to fall on poor Hank.
                    > That's okay.
                    > It'll give me even more of a reason to finally
                    > kiss Marvel off.
                    > They're long overdue.

                    Still some fun comics out there. That CAPTAIN AMERICA
                    #29 I've mentioned was awesome. Only a four issue
                    story, but it should be fun. Best Cap I've read in
                    years. The new Cap writer for the relaunch said Cap
                    fans will hate his first 6-8 issues. Oh, good.
                    Thanks for heads up! I guess I'll drop it after this
                    Kirkman story. :-)

                    > >>>Welcome to the generation of Frank Miller fans
                    > running
                    > >the business now. DC is getting just as dark in
                    > many
                    > >of their corners too.
                    >
                    > Sigh.
                    > As you well are aware, I warned of this DECADES
                    > ago.
                    >
                    > From what I hear, even Miller was appalled by the
                    > trend.
                    > And the stupidity.

                    Yes, Miller is unhappy that his influence is presumed
                    to be the reason for all the broken down heroes. He
                    tried to move Dark Knight 2 more in the direction of
                    heroes being heroes, but it just didn't come together
                    as a story. I had heard he wanted to do more
                    mainstream stuff and is working on a Batman story.

                    -Don

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                  • drobbins
                    Don mentioned, ... Try not to go into shock, but I don t think we can blame Miller for the latest debacle at Marvel. His take wasn t about killing everyone
                    Message 9 of 25 , Aug 1, 2004
                      Don mentioned,
                      >>>>Yes, Miller is unhappy that his influence is presumed
                      >to be the reason for all the broken down heroes


                      Try not to go into shock, but I don't think we can blame
                      Miller for the latest debacle at Marvel. His take wasn't
                      about killing everyone and their grandmother. That's
                      simply the result of hack writers who can't be bothered
                      to come up with creative, compelling stories where
                      drama, suspense and fun are the norm.

                      Marvel sure has a short memory.
                      Can't anyone there remember what happened
                      the last time Marvel went on a mass killing spree?
                      Did sales increase long-term or take a major hit?

                      Sigh.

                      Well, I'm past the rant stage now.
                      Time to cope and move on.
                      Time to realize that the age of comics we
                      knew and loved so much for all those years
                      is indeed, definitely and absolutely gone.
                      Whatever comes next, it won't be tales
                      akin to the Silver Age.

                      Barring a miracle.

                      :)
                      David
                    • drobbins
                      Don mentioned, ... Eeek. Am I ranting too much? I ll rein in the temper as best I can. But honestly, I m passed p******. I m past mad. I can t blame the Q and
                      Message 10 of 25 , Aug 1, 2004
                        Don mentioned,
                        >>>Although, I would suggest that a number of long time
                        >fans are losing their patience with this stuff, as
                        >David seems to have gone over the edge. :-)


                        Eeek.
                        Am I ranting too much?
                        I'll rein in the temper as best I can.

                        But honestly, I'm passed p******.
                        I'm past mad.

                        I can't blame the Q and Bendis for being
                        products of the culture that spawned them.

                        Consider, if you will, that we all are,
                        to varying degrees, influenced by the times
                        in which we live. Kirby and Lee certainly were.
                        So were many others in the early Silver Age
                        'bullpen'. They shared certain values,
                        certain beliefs, certain views which they
                        projected into the stories they wrote and
                        drew.

                        It's no different today.
                        But the values, the beliefs, the views, are different.
                        They're nowhere near those of the Silver Age creators.
                        The current generation has a whole new set,
                        and the stories they create reflect that,
                        just as the stories in the Silver Age did.

                        Logically, I can't blame the Q and Bendis.
                        But they're still world-class buttheads.
                        LOL

                        >>> >I think you remarked last week, on the upside, it has
                        >been a helluva run for Thor. We got 500 plus issues,
                        >about 350 appearances in Avengers and a few hundred
                        >more across the MU.

                        That's a 'lot' of comic history to enjoy.
                        And I, for one, am in the process of
                        'reenjoying' the Silver Age.
                        I read the complete HULK a while
                        back ant then SUB-MARINER,
                        now it's AVENGERS.
                        I'd do the Real Deal but I read the complete
                        run just five or six years ago, so might hold
                        off another year or so.

                        >>>>Thus, I'd be reading SOA, Ultimates (unless Ulty Thor
                        >turns out to be a fraud), and Marvel Team-Up. And one
                        >surprise, Astonishing X-Men.


                        You need, like, therapy, dude.
                        LOL

                        >>> Otherwise, I'm reading and enjoying 3-4 DC books, 3-4
                        >Image books and two from Dark Horse (my other
                        >warriors, Conan and Usagi).


                        I was at 10 Marvels, four DC's,
                        two Dark Horse, and several Indies.

                        That's about to change. I've had it.
                        My Marvel quotient is dropping bigtime.

                        David
                      • drobbins
                        Don relayed, ... Best according to whom??? Bendis??? And what exactly qualifies him to make that distinction? What has he ever done beside basically rewrite
                        Message 11 of 25 , Aug 1, 2004
                          Don relayed,
                          >>>>The only quote from Bendis on the new lineup I recall
                          >is, "Stan Lee's best characters."


                          Best according to whom???
                          Bendis???

                          And what exactly qualifies him to make
                          that distinction? What has he ever done
                          beside basically rewrite the Silver Age
                          greats ad nauseum???

                          Oh.
                          That's right.
                          He 'loves the Q's ass'.

                          Now everything is crystal clear.

                          :)
                          David
                        • drobbins
                          Jeff said, ... It s ironic. I m rereading the early AVENGERS. Several times on the letters pages fan wrote on to beg Stan to add Spidey or DD. He always
                          Message 12 of 25 , Aug 1, 2004
                            Jeff said,
                            >>> I think we will get
                            >> the >> Anti-Avengers. A group of high profile, solo guys
                            >> that never worked on the team for a reason.


                            It's ironic.
                            I'm rereading the early AVENGERS. Several times
                            on the letters pages fan wrote on to beg Stan to
                            add Spidey or DD. He always wrote back
                            that, essentially, they just wouldn't fit, that
                            they are loners by nature and wouldn't work
                            well with the team concept.
                            Amazing what a difference 40 years makes.

                            >>>Of
                            >> course
                            >> there will be a couple of acceptions to pull the
                            >> remnants of the old series' audience over.

                            Won't be me.
                            No Real Deal, I am 'so' out of there.

                            >>>So who get's kept? Cap and Iron man would be my guess.

                            It all depends on who Bendis thinks are Stan's 'best characters'.
                            Now we might wonder what qualifies him to make such
                            a distinction, and the answer, obviously, is his brown nose.

                            :)
                            David
                          • Lundonj
                            ... No, I wouldn t say you are ranting too much. We are all here because we enjoy reading Thor stories. If we don t like how things are going, where else can
                            Message 13 of 25 , Aug 2, 2004
                              --- drobbins <drobbins@...> wrote:
                              > Eeek.
                              > Am I ranting too much?
                              > I'll rein in the temper as best I can.

                              No, I wouldn't say you are ranting too much. We are
                              all here because we enjoy reading Thor stories. If we
                              don't like how things are going, where else can fans
                              vent among kindred spirits? You'll certainly find
                              less sympathy at the local Superman message boards!
                              :-p

                              > I can't blame the Q and Bendis for being
                              > products of the culture that spawned them.

                              True.

                              > Consider, if you will, that we all are,
                              > to varying degrees, influenced by the times
                              > in which we live. Kirby and Lee certainly were.
                              > So were many others in the early Silver Age
                              > 'bullpen'. They shared certain values,
                              > certain beliefs, certain views which they
                              > projected into the stories they wrote and
                              > drew.

                              Agreed. And, really, I don't mind most of the modern
                              changes. It has given us the largest variety in
                              comics in the history of the medium. Historic pieces
                              like MAUS and AGE OF BRONZE, to fantasy classics like
                              CONAN, I've seen gothic westerns, zombie books, to
                              comics for women like STRANGERS IN PARADISE.

                              I just liked having a choice. I could read Avengers
                              with a twist in the ULTIMATES, and I could read a
                              semi-close version of the classic team. I'll just
                              have fewer choices in the types of stories I want to
                              read. Nothing wrong with ranting about fewer choices.


                              > >>>>Thus, I'd be reading SOA, Ultimates (unless Ulty
                              > Thor
                              > >turns out to be a fraud), and Marvel Team-Up. And
                              > one
                              > >surprise, Astonishing X-Men.
                              >
                              >
                              > You need, like, therapy, dude.
                              > LOL

                              We're comic book fans. Don't we all need a little
                              therapy? Anger management? :-)

                              -Don



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                            • Lundonj
                              ... An excellent point. Unfortunately, if you attempt to explain this to a lot of modern writers, they would kind of look at you funny. Miller did kill
                              Message 14 of 25 , Aug 2, 2004
                                --- drobbins <drobbins@...> wrote:
                                > Try not to go into shock, but I don't think we can
                                > blame
                                > Miller for the latest debacle at Marvel. His take
                                > wasn't
                                > about killing everyone and their grandmother.
                                > That's
                                > simply the result of hack writers who can't be
                                > bothered
                                > to come up with creative, compelling stories where
                                > drama, suspense and fun are the norm.

                                An excellent point. Unfortunately, if you attempt to
                                explain this to a lot of modern writers, they would
                                kind of look at you funny. Miller did kill grandma
                                and everyone else, but only in SIN CITY. Not in
                                BATMAN. Someone should point that out to the new
                                guys.

                                > Well, I'm past the rant stage now.
                                > Time to cope and move on.
                                > Time to realize that the age of comics we
                                > knew and loved so much for all those years
                                > is indeed, definitely and absolutely gone.
                                > Whatever comes next, it won't be tales
                                > akin to the Silver Age.
                                >
                                > Barring a miracle.

                                Well, we need 750,000 new readers to catch the Silver
                                Age. The books will need to do a much better job than
                                the last decade to recruit some more bodies into the
                                biz.

                                -Don




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                              • Tawmis
                                ... Yeah, well to counter that - there s me. I hate everything that Bendis touches. He s a talentless hack from what I have seen (which is Ultimates and now
                                Message 15 of 25 , Aug 6, 2004
                                  > One thing Bendis has, is a *huge* online fan base that
                                  > is very vocal.

                                  Yeah, well to counter that - there's me. I hate everything that
                                  Bendis touches. He's a talentless hack from what I have seen (which
                                  is Ultimates and now Avengers).

                                  > I really can't see the hardcore Avengers' fans getting
                                  > excited at the end of this story.

                                  No. There's nothing good so far.

                                  > > I think that BRB will get an extended battle
                                  > > sequence and we will see several more 2nd bananas
                                  > > get it while he fights to the the death.
                                  > Sounds about right. Sad to say. Maybe a Bill Goes To
                                  > Hel story someday?

                                  Sigh... I am 4+ weeks behind... BRB has been in the new Thor? Sadly,
                                  I don't think he will survive... I saw they...

                                  S
                                  P
                                  O
                                  I
                                  L
                                  E
                                  R

                                  S
                                  P
                                  A
                                  C
                                  E


                                  Killed the Warriors Three... I am SO $&*#ing pissed off about that.
                                  Then Valkyrie is MIA after falling from the sky...
                                • Tawmis
                                  ... Um... S P O I L E R S P A C E Correct me if I am wrong... but Volstagg is dead, isn t he? I thought in Thor #82... they found his bones, where he had
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Aug 6, 2004
                                    > > As for the Real Deal, le's see.
                                    > > Pretty much everyone except Sif,
                                    > > Volstagg and Beta Ray Bill have been offed.
                                    > > My money is on BRB, alas, to go next.
                                    > > Any guesses here?
                                    > Yeah, Kill Bill vol. 3 (sans Tarentino) is on the
                                    > slate next. I guess. :-p My fave bizarre-headed
                                    > alien is in big trouble.

                                    Um...

                                    S
                                    P
                                    O
                                    I
                                    L
                                    E
                                    R

                                    S
                                    P
                                    A
                                    C
                                    E


                                    Correct me if I am wrong... but Volstagg is dead, isn't he? I thought
                                    in Thor #82... they found his bones, where he had apparently starved
                                    to death?
                                  • Tawmis
                                    ... Isn t Ultimates written by Bendis? ... Isn t that what Ultimates is, in essence? ... Amen.
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Aug 6, 2004
                                      > I then shocked him by informing him that after it's
                                      > over, I'm slashing all Marvel titles except
                                      > for SON OF ASGARD and ULTIMATES.

                                      Isn't Ultimates written by Bendis?

                                      > I refuse to read any more of Bendis' crap.
                                      > I refuse to see Silver Age classics retold
                                      > so tritely.

                                      Isn't that what Ultimates is, in essence?

                                      > Right now I'm rereading the first 60 issues
                                      > of the first volume of AVENGERS, and man,
                                      > is it ever fun.

                                      Amen.
                                    • Tawmis
                                      ... I suspect it will be Jan more than Hank.
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Aug 6, 2004
                                        > Yeah, I'm waiting for the axe to fall on poor Hank.
                                        > That's okay.
                                        > It'll give me even more of a reason to finally
                                        > kiss Marvel off.
                                        > They're long overdue.

                                        I suspect it will be Jan more than Hank.
                                      • Tawmis
                                        ... ASTONISHING X-MEN is incredible. I have hated, yet still collected the X-Books for years upon years... they went down hill around Uncanny X-Men #200... and
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Aug 6, 2004
                                          > And one surprise, Astonishing X-Men. I haven't read
                                          > mutie books in a decade. Maybe longer. This TV writer
                                          > Joss Whedon seems to really like the characters and he
                                          > is even bringing one back from the dead (Jean Gray or
                                          > Colossus). His stuff is a bit of throwback. I hope
                                          > he rids the Universe of the modified look of Beast
                                          > too. :-)

                                          ASTONISHING X-MEN is incredible. I have hated, yet still collected
                                          the X-Books for years upon years... they went down hill around
                                          Uncanny X-Men #200... and never really recovered, till Lee and
                                          Clairemont kicked off the new X-Men title, which went down hill
                                          around issue #50...

                                          So it's been a long, long, long time since I could say I have enjoyed
                                          an X-Men book.

                                          On my forum, I did a review of issues #1 and 2...

                                          You can read it here....

                                          http://www.tawmis.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=115

                                          Heck, feel free to join the forum, and the discussions there. All
                                          kinds of madness and insanity to be found there.

                                          There's discussion of THOR: SON OF ASGARD...
                                          http://www.tawmis.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=120

                                          http://www.tawmis.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=236

                                          And there's plenty of other stuff, outside of comics and such to be
                                          found scattered all over my forum.

                                          Ye can go there by heading to...

                                          http://www.tawmis.com

                                          Be warned, yer insanity may be at stake!

                                          > > Right now I'm rereading the first 60 issues
                                          > > of the first volume of AVENGERS, and man,
                                          > > is it ever fun.
                                          > Somewhere in the next few months, I'm going to read
                                          > every Thor comic I have, just for fun. Starting with
                                          > JIM #83 (or a close facsimile thereof).

                                          I have been re-reading my THOR and AVENGERS for the last month...
                                        • Lundonj
                                          ... Wow, I go on a little vacation to the Badlands and original Thor Fan Baddie Leafy has taken over the forum with 5.4 million messages! :-) Nice. Oh, and I
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Aug 9, 2004
                                            --- Tawmis <tyragon@...> wrote:
                                            > So it's been a long, long, long time since I could
                                            > say I have enjoyed
                                            > an X-Men book.
                                            >


                                            Wow, I go on a little vacation to the Badlands and
                                            original Thor Fan Baddie Leafy has taken over the
                                            forum with 5.4 million messages! :-)

                                            Nice.

                                            Oh, and I was wondering what your take was on
                                            ASTONISHING X-MEN. I was really taken by surprise on
                                            how well it has been. Only three issues in, but
                                            still, all good stuff so far. No need to read 30
                                            other X-books to understand it, and the characters are
                                            so spot on it is scary.

                                            -Don (will have to check out the Leafy insane board!)




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                                          • Tawmis
                                            ... Yeah, sorry about that! :-p This whole Avengers Disassembled thing has me in a tizzy! :-p ... Aye! It s my favorite X-Men title in YEARS AND YEARS AND
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Aug 10, 2004
                                              > > So it's been a long, long, long time since I could
                                              > > say I have enjoyed
                                              > > an X-Men book.
                                              > Wow, I go on a little vacation to the Badlands and
                                              > original Thor Fan Baddie Leafy has taken over the
                                              > forum with 5.4 million messages! :-)
                                              > Nice.

                                              Yeah, sorry about that! :-p This whole Avengers Disassembled thing
                                              has me in a tizzy! :-p

                                              > Oh, and I was wondering what your take was on
                                              > ASTONISHING X-MEN. I was really taken by surprise on
                                              > how well it has been. Only three issues in, but
                                              > still, all good stuff so far. No need to read 30
                                              > other X-books to understand it, and the characters are
                                              > so spot on it is scary.

                                              Aye! It's my favorite X-Men title in YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS!

                                              > -Don (will have to check out the Leafy insane board!)

                                              Heh, be warned... ye may lose yer sanity...

                                              Whatever is left. :-p
                                            • Lundonj
                                              ... Hey, if we can t vent our frustrations and/or celebrate the better stories here at Thor Fans, then where? I know my wife doesn t get THOR any more than
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Aug 10, 2004
                                                --- Tawmis <tyragon@...> wrote:
                                                > > Wow, I go on a little vacation to the Badlands and
                                                > > original Thor Fan Baddie Leafy has taken over the
                                                > > forum with 5.4 million messages! :-)
                                                > > Nice.
                                                >
                                                > Yeah, sorry about that! :-p This whole Avengers
                                                > Disassembled thing
                                                > has me in a tizzy! :-p

                                                Hey, if we can't vent our frustrations and/or
                                                celebrate the better stories here at Thor Fans, then
                                                where? I know my wife doesn't "get" THOR any more
                                                than Bendis does! :-p

                                                I think I finally slugged my way through all of the
                                                back email and the new stuff. About 70 messages or so
                                                just from this list!

                                                That will teach me to leave town a few days....

                                                -Don



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                                              • Hoang Thai
                                                ... Hey, your the one gave us the reasons to keep posting _________________________________________________________________ Feeling spent? Apply here for
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Aug 12, 2004
                                                  > > > Wow, I go on a little vacation to the Badlands and
                                                  > > > original Thor Fan Baddie Leafy has taken over the
                                                  > > > forum with 5.4 million messages! :-)
                                                  > > > Nice.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Yeah, sorry about that! :-p This whole Avengers
                                                  > > Disassembled thing
                                                  > > has me in a tizzy! :-p
                                                  >
                                                  >Hey, if we can't vent our frustrations and/or
                                                  >celebrate the better stories here at Thor Fans, then
                                                  >where? I know my wife doesn't "get" THOR any more
                                                  >than Bendis does! :-p
                                                  >
                                                  >I think I finally slugged my way through all of the
                                                  >back email and the new stuff. About 70 messages or so
                                                  >just from this list!
                                                  >
                                                  >That will teach me to leave town a few days....

                                                  Hey, your the one gave us the reasons to keep posting

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