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Re: (teach) teaching in China

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  • rebecca lim
    Hi all, I have made enquiries about teaching English in China too (possibly early next year). I m waiting for my daughter to finish her yr 12 studies this
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 30, 2001
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      Hi all,

      I have made enquiries about teaching English in China too (possibly early
      next year). I'm waiting for my daughter to finish her yr 12 studies this
      November so she can travel with me.

      I attended a seminar run by an organisation called Global-Access China. Has
      anyone heard of them? They are recruitment agents for schools and teachers.
      Apparently, the schools they represent will pay for a return ticket to China
      for my daughter and I if you complete 12 months, if you only do 6 months,
      you will be reimbursed for a one way ticker. The salary ranges from
      RMB2,500-4,000 depending on quals/teaching experience. According to them,
      there is scope to work a second job as the main job is 16 contact hrs a
      week. I understand the job involves teaching/correcting conversational
      English, not written. Fully furnished 2-bedroom accommodation, computer
      facilities, heating, aircond is included in the package.

      The emails I have read don't reflect the nature of the job that has been
      promoted by Global-Access China. You guys seem to be talking about written
      English, band levels etc...

      I wonder if someone can shed some light please. Richard, you may wish to
      contact this organisation on teach@... as they seem to be
      offering a better deal than what you state.

      Thanks,
      Rebecca Lim

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "richard grayburn" <felixstowechess@...>
      To: <teflchina@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 11:44 AM
      Subject: (teach) teaching in China


      > Hello,
      >
      > I'm new to this. I graduated from University in the U.K. last year and I'm
      looking for a challenge. I think I've found it! I've been offered a teaching
      job in China starting in a few weeks at a rate of pay of 2,300 - 2,600 Yuan
      a month and free accomodation! I have no teaching experience and no
      qualification at teaching english as a foreign language. The University who
      are employing me don't seem to be concerned about this in the least! My
      impression is that they probably won't offer me much in the way of support
      or advice. I think they are just pleased to have someone there for the
      students who's mother tongue is English. It looks as if I'm going to have to
      learn how do to this as I go along prett much by trial and error.
      >
      > I've seen some books which may be of assistance to me:
      >
      > 'Living in China: A guide to teaching and studying in China including
      Taiwan and Hong Kong' By Weiner, Murphy and Li.
      >
      > Campbell & Zhao 'The dilemma of English Language Instruction in the P.R.
      of China'
      >
      > This is a TESOL journal item 2(4): 4-6.
      >
      > This may be helpful, but I'm not sure if it's easy to get hold of it.
      >
      > 'Teaching English as a second/foreign language: A teacher's
      self-development and methodological guide'
      > By Jerry Gebhard.
      >
      > 'The ESL miscellany' by Clark,Mason and Burrows.
      >
      > I take these would be useful. Are they too advanced for me? I'm not sure.
      If not these books, what others?
      >
      > I'm feeling a little daunted already and I haven't even booked my flight
      yet!
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Richard Grayburn.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Yi Xie
      Thank you Karen! Actually, I posted one message in CA-L today. I hope there will be some responses. I am very interested in how English is taught at a
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 30, 2001
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        Thank you Karen!
        Actually, I posted one message in CA-L today. I hope
        there will be some responses.

        I am very interested in how English is taught at a
        distance. I was told that there are some English
        courses taught by this mode, but still there is much
        room from improvement. This is what i would like to
        find out.

        Thanx again!

        Susan

        --- Karen Stanley <kstanley@...> wrote:
        > Jeff Kruse recommended TESL-L as a source of
        > information
        > on distance learning in China. In the subscribe
        > information,
        > he gave information on how to subscribe to three
        > branches of
        > the main list, JB-L, CA-L, and MW-L. Let me give my
        > take
        > on how each of these branches might be useful:
        >
        > JB-L (employment) would be appropriate for looking
        > at issues of
        > professional advancement via distance learning.
        > CA-L would be
        > useful in terms of questions of pedagogical use and
        > technical matters
        > related to distance learning. I'm assuming here
        > that you are referring to
        > more technologically advanced forms of distance
        > learning (rather
        > than correspondence by letters). I imagine MW-L
        > (material writers)
        > might be useful if you are looking at format and
        > composition of
        > materials which you use for distance learning. I am
        > on JB-L and
        > CA-L, but not MW-L.
        >
        > Karen Stanley
        > Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
        > <kstanley@...>
        >
        >
        >
        >


        =====
        Susan(Yi Xie) Student of Master of CALLComputer-Assisted Language LearningThe University of MelbourneE-MAIL: y.xie@... or xieyi12@...: 00613- Mobile: 0402585262ADDRESS: 18 Glenlyon Road, Brunswick, Victoria 3056 AUSTRALIA

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      • Jennifer Wallace
        The package offered is pretty much the standard deal, no better no worse than many others here. My guess is that if they can fill your timetable with Oral
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 30, 2001
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          The package offered is pretty much the standard deal, no better no worse
          than many others here. My guess is that if they can fill your timetable
          with Oral English classes they will do, but many places don't have that many
          Oral English classes, so they fill our timetables with some of everything
          else, sometimes with consultation and negotiation, sometimes not. My
          experience is only in a college/university - which would happily offer this
          standard package to someone wanting a job here next year. I'm happy here
          and may well extend to a third year in the place.

          Jennifer Wallace
          Anhui Gongye Daxue, Ma'anshan, Anhui Province

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        • Patrick Wallace
          Hi Rebecca,The deal you mention from Global-Access China seems pretty standard for state run schools, though the accommodations are at the higher end of the
          Message 4 of 19 , Oct 1, 2001
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            Hi Rebecca,

            The deal you mention from Global-Access China seems pretty standard for
            state run schools, though the accommodations are at the higher end of the
            scale. Some schools will not offer the airfare as a part of the package,
            but if you insist on it you can sometimes get at least one way airfare after
            one year included: This is one point that often, but not always, seems to
            be open for negotiation. Since there are many, many more jobs in China than
            there are teachers, I am skeptical for the need to go with an organization
            if they require you to pay them any money or if all they are offering is job
            placement, as you can find a good job easily enough on your own by contacted
            the schools directly by email. Better yet, if you are truly adventurous,
            come to China and visit the schools you are thinking of working at: You
            would get a direct feel for working and living conditions and would be in a
            strong place to negotiate if something in the contract or housing is not up
            to your standards.

            Good Luck,
            Patrick






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          • john pullen
            I apologize to the group for sending that long message. I thought it was just going to Richard. Chris had suggested we put something together as an FAQ. I
            Message 5 of 19 , Oct 2, 2001
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              I apologize to the group for sending that long message. I thought it was
              just going to Richard.

              Chris had suggested we put something together as an FAQ. I was in the
              process of doing that and saw the request for information so I sent it.

              Now that it is out, does anyone have suggestions for improving it?

              john


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            • rebeccalim@optusnet.com.au
              Hi Jennifer I read with your interest of your experience. I would like to pick your brains here a little (if I may?). I m not sure which question you were
              Message 6 of 19 , Oct 3, 2001
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                Hi Jennifer

                I read with your interest of your experience. I would like to pick your brains here a
                little (if I may?).

                I'm not sure which question you were responding to but what is the standard
                package you talk about. I've been offered return air fares (if I complete a 12
                month contract or one-way if I only teach for 6 months). The salary range is
                RMB2,500 - RMB4,000 depending on quals/experience. The package includes
                fully furnished accommo, heater, air-cond, computer, bicycle (I had to laugh)....
                The org has also offered my almost 18 yo daughter a job teaching lower primary
                and for me, middle school so we can stay together. I would prefer tertiary but will
                consider middle school if that's the only opportunity for my daughter to also earn
                an income. Do you live on campus? How did you find your placement, was it
                through an agency or did you have contacts direct with the school?

                I need to get some information on the universities because my daughter is
                applying to do Arts/Law at the Uni of Qld here in Brisbane but if we go to china,
                she'll defer her place at uni and she might as well do a couple of u/grad subjects
                to get some credit. Can you recommend the better unis? I've done a search on
                the web but info is so fragmented and difficult to obtain..nothing detailed like what
                our unis.

                If we avoid Beijing, what are the better areas/provinces to go to?

                Is it difficult to teach conversational English? I don't have much experience - I
                have taught refugees settlement issues eg public transport, Australia's health
                system, law etc... but not a language. I've been getting a little worried when others
                have talked about bands, written english that sort of thing.

                I'm sorry to field so many questions but there's so much to consider, esp
                because my daughter is coming with me.

                I appreciate your comments/advice.

                Rebecca Lim.



                > Jennifer Wallace <Jennifer0052@...> wrote:
                >
                > The package offered is pretty much the standard deal, no better no
                > worse
                > than many others here. My guess is that if they can fill your
                > timetable
                > with Oral English classes they will do, but many places don't have
                > that many
                > Oral English classes, so they fill our timetables with some of
                > everything
                > else, sometimes with consultation and negotiation, sometimes not. My
                >
                > experience is only in a college/university - which would happily
                > offer this
                > standard package to someone wanting a job here next year. I'm happy
                > here
                > and may well extend to a third year in the place.
                >
                > Jennifer Wallace
                > Anhui Gongye Daxue, Ma'anshan, Anhui Province
                >
                >
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              • Jennifer Wallace
                I used the phrase standard package to mean what you ve been offered is pretty standard for many of the jobs here. Teaching oral English, conversation
                Message 7 of 19 , Oct 4, 2001
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                  I used the phrase 'standard package' to mean what you've been offered is
                  pretty standard for many of the jobs here.

                  Teaching oral English, 'conversation' classes to classes of 30 or 40 of
                  mixed ability, I think is hard work if you've not done it before in a better
                  educational environment, with better resources, with training, with
                  experience. However, we all have our own reasons for taking on what we do
                  take on in life, and if you're prepared for a steep sharp learning curve I'd
                  think you'll get as much out of it as you have to put in.

                  I'm not sure what you're thinking about for your daughter. Sending your
                  daughter to a Chinese university, I think, would be like sending her to a
                  Western university of 50 years ago. Maybe better than nothing, but not an
                  exactly wonderful learning experience and opportunity - and could be awful.
                  You'd probably not believe how bad some of the classes can be and how
                  minimal the resources are and what little idea there is of education beyond
                  rote learning. What would she be thinking of studying - Chinese language
                  and culture?

                  My job here is with a UK NGO, VSO (Voluntary Service Overseas) and our
                  university also has 2 Americans here through another NGO, Volunteers in
                  Asia. The advantage of that is they do all the negotiating and back us up
                  in emergencies. And mine does invaluable things like provide the medical
                  insurance and emergency bail-out arrangements.

                  Feel free to ask me more.

                  Jennifer Wallace

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                • john pullen
                  Rebecca Lim I ve provided my ba shi fen (80 fen or 10 cents) to your questions. john ... Don t laugh, a bicycle is very useful and to have one right away
                  Message 8 of 19 , Oct 9, 2001
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                    Rebecca Lim

                    I've provided my ba shi fen (80 fen or 10 cents) to your questions.

                    john

                    >what is the standard
                    >package you talk about. I've been offered return air fares (if I >complete
                    >a 12 month contract or one-way if I only teach for 6 months). >The salary
                    >range is RMB2,500 - RMB4,000 depending on quals/experience. >The package
                    >includes fully furnished accommo, heater, air-cond, >computer, bicycle (I
                    >had to laugh)....

                    Don't laugh, a bicycle is very useful and to have one right away without
                    having to hassel buying one the first week is very good. If I remember
                    correctly, buying my first bicycle was a week long process of deciding what
                    I wanted, pricing everything and purchasing it. Then trying to get the
                    license for it and registering was fun. Shortly thereafter my first bike
                    was stolen as I thought it was great to buy a mountain bike and of course
                    that is the most stolen bike in China. My second bike was the standard
                    black, one gear jobber that is soon looking very used and is not stollen as
                    quickly. It lasted just four months before it too disappeared, or as the
                    Chinese say, "someone borrowed". So a school purchased and loaned bike
                    could be a very good perc.

                    The rest of your details are the 'standard package'.



                    >The org has also offered my almost 18 yo daughter a job teaching lower
                    > >primary and for me, middle school so we can stay together. I would
                    > >prefer tertiary but will consider middle school if that's the only
                    > >opportunity for my daughter to also earn an income. How did you find
                    > >your placement, was it through an agency or did you have contacts >direct
                    >with the school?

                    The offer to have both with jobs is a good deal. Working with middle school
                    students can be a little more bothersome in that usually their classes will
                    have 50 to 60 students in each class. Unless you are use to teaching and
                    having large classes, this can be daunting at first. The student motivation
                    or attention can also be lacking as not all are going to be able to pass the
                    test for college entrance and so they are really just biding their time
                    rather than just trying to study. A few will be rather disruptive as well.

                    In my case, I contacted schools directly and was lucky to get a position at
                    a school that worked out very well.

                    >I need to get some information on the universities because my daughter >is
                    >applying to do Arts/Law at the Uni of Qld here in Brisbane but if >we go to
                    >china, she'll defer her place at uni and she might as well do >a couple of
                    >u/grad subjects to get some credit. Can you recommend the >better unis?
                    >I've done a search on the web but info is so fragmented >and difficult to
                    >obtain..nothing detailed like what our unis.


                    I can't help a lot here, but you could contact your intended university and
                    ask if she can do a special assignment. She might also see if she can learn
                    Chinese and somehow get credit for a language course. Maybe some history
                    course can be done as a special history project while in China where your
                    daughter works with the instructor on a correspondence basis. She can also
                    use distance learning and take a course on the web that could be transfered
                    into your university. I would suggest you try working out something with the
                    university before leaving rather than taking something in China and then
                    trying to transfer the credit.


                    >If we avoid Beijing, what are the better areas/provinces to go to?

                    This is very subjective and really would require you to determine what type
                    of climate you want, size of city, resources nearby, and other conveniences.
                    There are many wonderful places.

                    >Is it difficult to teach conversational English? I don't have much
                    > >experience - I have taught refugees settlement issues eg public
                    > >transport, Australia's health system, law etc... but not a language.
                    > >I've been getting a little worried when others have talked about >bands,
                    >written english that sort of thing.

                    Teaching is the easy part. Getting others to learn is the challenge. In
                    most cases, where the school wants you to teach conversation, they are
                    really just interested in giving the students more exposure to a live model
                    of the language. Usually, they want the chance to talk and have some
                    feedback, but nothing major as expectation. However, this is changing as
                    the college entrance tests are now requiring students to be able to pass a
                    spoken Enlish examination. You might check out how this is implemented and
                    what is expected. Then teach to the test.





                    > Jennifer Wallace <Jennifer0052@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The package offered is pretty much the standard deal, no better no
                    > worse
                    > than many others here. My guess is that if they can fill your
                    > timetable
                    > with Oral English classes they will do, but many places don't have
                    > that many
                    > Oral English classes, so they fill our timetables with some of
                    > everything
                    > else, sometimes with consultation and negotiation, sometimes not. My
                    >
                    > experience is only in a college/university - which would happily
                    > offer this
                    > standard package to someone wanting a job here next year. I'm happy
                    > here
                    > and may well extend to a third year in the place.
                    >
                    > Jennifer Wallace
                    > Anhui Gongye Daxue, Ma'anshan, Anhui Province
                    >
                    >
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