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grammar

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  • Dave and Barb
    Just wanted to tell everyone about an incident that occured here at our university. Yeaterday as Dave walked out of his class one of the Chinese English
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 1, 2001
      Just wanted to tell everyone about an incident that occured here
      at our university.

      Yeaterday as Dave walked out of his class one of the Chinese
      English teachers asked him to help her clarify a grammar question.
      He went to the office and she showed him a new grammar book.

      "My sister and I rode the ferris wheel everyday that the carnival
      was in town."

      Monica, the Chinese English teacher, said she couldn't understand
      this sentence. She thought that the sentence was a run-on sentence.
      Dave told her that it wasn't, that the sentence had 2 clauses,
      etc. etc. Monica went on to show him several more examples in
      the book (which is of course all in Chinese except for the example
      sentences). Dave was appaled to find that most of the examples
      were out and out wrong.

      Eee gads!!!! English is hard enough to teach without the books
      being out and out wrong (not just lacking context). How do we
      fight this? There are so few of us and so many bad books.

      I also have a question. How does everyone deal with the article
      problem (a, an, and the)? I have students who when I have them
      read a grammatically correct sentence will omit every single
      article as they read. The first time this happened I about fell
      over. I hate to be correcting the kids every time they make a
      mistake (God knows it has taken long enough to get them to have
      enough confidence to speak out).

      Any ideas. I know that Chinese has no articles and that this
      is what causes the difficuties.

      Barbara
    • Merton Bland
      Nelson Bank asks if anyone else teaches syntactic collocation in their grammar units. Nelson, most folks no longer teach grammar units. While all languages
      Message 2 of 10 , May 21, 2008
        Nelson Bank asks if anyone else teaches syntactic collocation in their grammar units. Nelson, most folks no longer teach grammar units. While all languages have their grammar, most of us prefer to use inductive methods (having the students acquire the grammar through use), rather than deductive methods (having the student memorize rules by rote), since the latter is conterproductive if one hopes to communicate in the target language. One has only to note the more than a million Chinese who spent 12 years or more learning English the old way and who are completely unable to communicate in English.

        Mert - Dr.M.L.Bland
      • Graham Paterson
        Hi All, Following on from Merton s comments, there is an excellent DVD teaching disk on the market, the Rosetta Stone that teaches English by the inductive
        Message 3 of 10 , May 21, 2008
          Hi All,
          Following on from Merton's comments, there is an excellent DVD teaching disk on the market, the "Rosetta Stone" that teaches English by the inductive approach. The disk contains 200 lessons in both UK English and US English and has options for audio, visual and typing exercises for every lesson. It also has a special audio graph setup where the learner can use a microphone to pronounce the text and compare their graph with the native speaker to help with getting the "right" pronunciation.
          (Incidently, the disk also contains lessons on Mandarin as well as 20 plus other languages.)
          Regards
          Graham

          Merton Bland <mert_bland@...> wrote:

          Nelson Bank asks if anyone else teaches syntactic collocation in their grammar units. Nelson, most folks no longer teach grammar units. While all languages have their grammar, most of us prefer to use inductive methods (having the students acquire the grammar through use), rather than deductive methods (having the student memorize rules by rote), since the latter is conterproductive if one hopes to communicate in the target language. One has only to note the more than a million Chinese who spent 12 years or more learning English the old way and who are completely unable to communicate in English.

          Mert - Dr.M.L.Bland
        • Nelson Bank
          ... Um. Not quite. Grammar study by itself will achieve not good results. Grammar study in the absence of native-speaker instruction will not yield very
          Message 4 of 10 , May 21, 2008
            >most folks no longer teach grammar units

            Um. Not quite. Grammar study by itself will achieve
            not good results. Grammar study in the absence of
            native-speaker instruction will not yield very good
            results. Language study without a grammar unit will
            yield sub-optimal results.
            The question is, "How much grammar is optimal?" The
            amount of grammar instruction will depend on teacher
            proficiency, student receptiveness, and research on
            the best mix of formal/intuitive teacher direction.
            Nelson Bank
          • Jack Sweeney
            ... One of the strong points of the Cambridge Interchange series IMO is that most of the units or chapters include a small grammar lesson incorporated into the
            Message 5 of 10 , May 21, 2008
              > >most folks no longer teach grammar units
              >
              > Um. Not quite. Grammar study by itself will
              > achieve
              > not good results.

              One of the strong points of the Cambridge Interchange
              series IMO is that most of the units or chapters
              include a small grammar lesson incorporated into the
              theme of the unit.

              If students actually write out the workbook exercises
              they get some practice in using the grammatical
              structures as well.

              Jack Sweeney
            • Dave
              ... mention to students, especially as prepositions in English are so often arbitrary, is that adjectives and ... Yes, mine who now write 300 words with 3
              Message 6 of 10 , May 23, 2008
                >One aspect of collocation that I think is useful to
                mention to students, especially as prepositions in
                English are so often arbitrary, is that adjectives and
                >verbs very often "take" certain prepositions.

                >I suggest that students memorize the prepositions
                >when they memorize the verb or adjective (as vocabulary),
                >Betty Azar's grammar texts have appendices

                Yes, mine who now write 300 words with 3 errors, make those errors in
                verb/prep, adj/prep and another /prep combo.
                Their other common error is definite articles.

                I use a Headway Advanced appendix (since I've got it).

                I think Azar is online ? but I'm in the wrong programm, without my
                bookmarks. There is some hugely dense American grammar I've seen

                >The question is, "How much grammar is optimal?"

                Agreed. There has to be a distinction between old GT and new GO :-)
                (grammar optimal) which will vary from class to class..

                btw is Surete (the French police outfit) pronouned su ret ay, or su ret?
                It pops up in Agatha Christie, Extensive Reading.

                Dave Nevin
              • Dave
                ... close, but no banana.( my previous email) the site I was thinking of, http://www.fortunecity.com/bally/durrus/153/gramtoc.html Mary Ansell, 2000.
                Message 7 of 10 , May 23, 2008
                  >Betty Azar's grammar texts have appendices that cover
                  >these types of [adjective + preposition] and [verb + preposition]
                  >combinations, but I'm sure they are available other
                  >places as well.

                  close, but no banana.( my previous email)

                  the site I was thinking of,
                  http://www.fortunecity.com/bally/durrus/153/gramtoc.html

                  Mary Ansell, 2000.

                  prepositions are in chapter 26.
                  http://www.fortunecity.com/bally/durrus/153/gramdex.html
                  >"The material in this book may be used freely for any non-commercial
                  purpose, however no changes to the content may be made without the
                  express permission of the author. Questions, comments or corrections may
                  be sent to stirling@....

                  The contents of the book can be seen at a glance from the Table of
                  Contents, which contains links to all of the material covered. There is
                  also an Index.

                  Anyone who would like to download the material in order to use it more
                  conveniently is welcome to do so."

                  THe only trouble, there's too much !

                  Dave Nevin
                • Merton Bland
                  It s pronounced sur (with that French u that you have to pucker up for) tay. Mert Dave wrote: btw is Surete (the French police outfit) pronouned su ret ay, or
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 24, 2008
                    It's pronounced sur (with that French u that you have to pucker up for) tay.
                    Mert

                    Dave wrote:

                    btw is Surete (the French police outfit) pronouned su ret ay, or su ret? It pops up in Agatha Christie, Extensive Reading.



















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                  • elizabeth tripp
                    Grammar for Dummies is good and funny. elizabeth tripp
                    Message 9 of 10 , May 24, 2008
                      Grammar for Dummies is good and funny.

                      elizabeth tripp
                    • Nelson Bank
                      ... ret ay, or su ret? sur teh (the u is pronounced with a raised tongue) Nelson Bank
                      Message 10 of 10 , May 27, 2008
                        >is Surete (the French police outfit) pronouned su
                        ret ay, or su ret?

                        sur teh (the u is pronounced with a raised tongue)
                        Nelson Bank
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