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Re: (teach) Re: basic sounds

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  • Nelson Bank
    Although Mandarin is considered to be a group of similar Chinese dialects, it has been used interchangeably with
    Message 1 of 25 , May 22, 2013
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      <"Mandarin" as opposed to "Putonghua">

      Although 'Mandarin' is considered to be a group of similar Chinese dialects, it has been used interchangeably with 'Putonghua' of late.  You could say that Putonghua is a Mandarin-based standardized dialect that is used as the official language of China.  It's safe to tailor English pronunciation classes to Putonghua on a national level.  There may even be an educational obligation to do so.

      Nelson Bank
    • Dave
      ... If we speak about any other language then we name the dialect that is referred to.
      Message 2 of 25 , May 22, 2013
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        >we speak about 'pu tong hua', the language that is universally taught.
        If we speak about any other language then we name the dialect that is referred to.<

        A few years ago I did read that only 51% of Chinese spoke putonghua. That
        may have changed? I assume the others speak dialects or any of the other
        languages of the 56 nationalities.
        It does explain why they have number symbols by fingers, whatever that is
        called.
        Do Guangdong schools still teach in 'Cantonese' ?

        cheers
        Dave N
      • Nelson Bank
        I wonder how that compares to the percentage of Chinese who know Putonghua. The number system, from 1 to 10, that is used to
        Message 3 of 25 , May 23, 2013
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          <51% of Chinese spoke putonghua>

          I wonder how that compares to the percentage of Chinese who know Putonghua.
          The number system, from 1 to 10, that is used to count on hands, has small variations in different geographical locations, but is pretty logical, up to 4 or 5 at least.  Higher numbers are generally supposed to look like the written Arabic digit.  The 10 has two big variants, but both look like an X.
          Guangdong, Hainan, Urumqi, all have Putonghua as the official language, and everyone is supposed to be able to communicate in it.

          Nelson
        • Jim Mahler
          Mandarin is a Sino-Tibetan language spoken as a native language by over 60% of the people in China. Putonghua is a set of
          Message 4 of 25 , May 23, 2013
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            <51% of Chinese spoke putonghua>

            "Mandarin" is a Sino-Tibetan�language spoken as a native language by over 60% of the people in China. "Putonghua" is a set of rules created by�academics�in the 20th century, based on the version of Mandarin spoken by educated people in Beijing, and considered to be the "proper" way to speak Mandarin.

            If you ask someone from a Mandarin-speaking area (say, Shandong) whether they speak putonghua, it's like asking someone from Boston whether they've learned how to pronounce "r". If you ask someone from an area where Mandarin isn't the native language (say, Guangdong) the same question, it's like asking whether they've learned a foreign language.

            Jim Mahler
          • Nelson Bank
            Try to understand the local Mandarin in different regions in China.  Sometimes it s pretty radical.  For Cantonese, which is way
            Message 5 of 25 , May 23, 2013
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              <Mandarin-speaking area>

              Try to understand the local Mandarin in different regions in China.  Sometimes it's pretty radical.  For Cantonese, which is way removed from Putonghua, Putonghua is a second language, which many didn't used to speak.  Now it's the official language.

              Nelson Bank
            • Russ
              ...  For Cantonese, which is way removed from Putonghua, Putonghua is a second language, which many didn t used to speak.  Now it s the official language. My
              Message 6 of 25 , May 23, 2013
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                --- In TEFLChina@yahoogroups.com, Nelson Bank <natlunla@... wrote:

                 For Cantonese, which is way removed from Putonghua, Putonghua is a second language, which many didn't used to speak.  Now it's the official language.

                My comment:
                Just because it's the official language doesn't mean it's actually being used very often other than when it really has to be. When I was teaching in Ningbo Chinese teachers had to take a putonghua exam every year but every day they spoke ningbohua in lessons.
                It's interesting though to know that a lot of Chinese students are learning putonghua as their first foreign language and English as their second and French/German/Japanese as their third at unmiversity. Such understanding is essential for us as 'foreign' teachers (I really hate that expression) to understand some of our students' problems.
                Is there any research on this that anyone knows about?

                Russ Taylor
              • nate jarvis
                Mandarin is a Sino-Tibetan language Anyone know where the debate on this classification stands? Whether Burmese and Tibetan languages are subset to a
                Message 7 of 25 , May 24, 2013
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                  "Mandarin" is a Sino-Tibetan language
                  </Jim>

                  Anyone know where the debate on this classification stands? Whether Burmese
                  and Tibetan languages are subset to a Sino-Tibetan grouping, which
                  allegedly is NOT representative of likely genealogies, or Chinese
                  language(s) subset to some further initial subdivision of Burmese/Tibetan
                  languages, despite the tendency to give priority to Chinese due to the
                  large number of natives, its political/military/cultural power of the
                  millennia, etc.

                  Nate.
                • Dave
                  I read that putonghua was a creation of Mao/CPC,to help unify China. Native Beijingers don t speak it, or not all of it. (thinking of the n/r sound)...aah,
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 27, 2013
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                    I read that putonghua was a creation of Mao/CPC,to help unify China.
                    Native Beijingers don't speak it, or not all of it. (thinking of the n/r
                    sound)...aah, Educated Beijingers!

                    I see the ratio was up to 53%, by 2007.

                    http://pinyin.info/news/2007/percentage-of-chinas-population-that-can-speak-mandarin-remains-at-53-prc-moe/

                    I notice this article uses the nouns putonghua and Mandarin
                    interchangeably...but imagine you need to go Taiwan to hear Mandarin these
                    days.

                    >The 10 has two big variants, but both look like an X.
                    I've also seen 10 as a closed fist.

                    cheers
                    Dave Nevin
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