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Re: [TBHeritage] Family Tables - small Bibliography

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  • Ralph Graulich
    Hi Moe, ... Thanks for the roses, but as you saw, Tim already did the same thing and his list is more complete. But I think this is the intention of a mailing
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 1, 2003
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      Hi Moe,


      > Ralph, I am not only most impressed, but how in the world did you ever have
      > time to do this? Bless you for doing it, & some of these types of things I
      > have always wanted to accomplish when I got older & had more time. Well, I'm
      > older, but still don't have more time.

      Thanks for the roses, but as you saw, Tim already did the same thing and
      his list is more complete. But I think this is the intention of a mailing
      list: Exchanging research work, questions, opinions and ideas.

      As you asked how I have time for this: I don't have much leisure time at
      my hands, but all the time I have I spend researching thoroughbred
      bloodlines and history, so over the time things like bibliographies are
      necessary if you search for missing volumes or information.

      Anyway, it was far from being complete and just a small tile for a large
      puzzle.

      Best regards
      ... Ralph ...
    • Ralph Graulich
      Hi Miodrag, ... Thanks for your information. Sounds like being a real interesting book, though until now I have never heard about it. It seems to be impossible
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 1, 2003
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        Hi Miodrag,

        > Yes. It's not easy to find. But one of my friends has it...
        > Mr Plavljanic has obviously very good sources of information, because he managed to
        > connect all mares from that period to foundation mares...

        Thanks for your information. Sounds like being a real interesting book,
        though until now I have never heard about it. It seems to be impossible
        getting to know all the books on TB related topics. The more you search,
        the more books you find.

        By time I'll come back to you with some questions regarding this book,
        while adding all those books to my bibliography.

        Tim, if you read this: May I include your list to my bibliography,
        mentioning the information came from you?

        Best regards
        ... Ralph ...
      • Ivan Milovanovic
        Of course, Miodrag ... From: Ralph Graulich To: TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [TBHeritage] Family Tables -
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 1, 2003
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          Of course,
          Miodrag

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Ralph Graulich
          To: TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:34 AM
          Subject: Re: [TBHeritage] Family Tables - small Bibliography


          Hi Miodrag,

          > Yes. It's not easy to find. But one of my friends has it...
          > Mr Plavljanic has obviously very good sources of information, because he managed to
          > connect all mares from that period to foundation mares...

          Thanks for your information. Sounds like being a real interesting book,
          though until now I have never heard about it. It seems to be impossible
          getting to know all the books on TB related topics. The more you search,
          the more books you find.

          By time I'll come back to you with some questions regarding this book,
          while adding all those books to my bibliography.

          Tim, if you read this: May I include your list to my bibliography,
          mentioning the information came from you?

          Best regards
          ... Ralph ...


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        • Tim Cox
          on 1/8/03 10:34, Ralph Graulich at maillist@shauny.de wrote: Hi Miodrag, ... managed to ... Thanks for your information. Sounds like being a real interesting
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 6, 2003
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            on 1/8/03 10:34, Ralph Graulich at maillist@... wrote:

            Hi Miodrag,

            > Yes. It's not easy to find. But one of my friends has it...
            > Mr Plavljanic has obviously very good sources of information, because he
            managed to
            > connect all mares from that period to foundation mares...

            Thanks for your information. Sounds like being a real interesting book,
            though until now I have never heard about it. It seems to be impossible
            getting to know all the books on TB related topics. The more you search,
            the more books you find.

            By time I'll come back to you with some questions regarding this book,
            while adding all those books to my bibliography.

            Tim, if you read this: May I include your list to my bibliography,
            mentioning the information came from you?

            Best regards
            ... Ralph ...


            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT

            <a href=" http://www.tbheritage.com "> The holidays are coming! Great gift
            ideas can be found at the Thoroughbred Heritage Store! </a>

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
            <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

            Ralph

            Have just returned from a short holiday.

            Yes, please add the books to your list. I am compiling a much fuller
            bibliography to extend the listing produced by Eileen Loder in 1978
            (Bibliography of the History and Organisation of Horse Racing and
            Thoroughbred Breeding in Great Britain and Ireland 1563 - 1973) based on the
            books in my library.

            Tim


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ralph Graulich
            Hi Tim, I hope you had a pleasent short vacation and came back relaxed. Reading you try to compile a fuller bibliography than the one of Eileen Loder is odd,
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 6, 2003
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              Hi Tim,

              I hope you had a pleasent short vacation and came back relaxed.

              Reading you try to compile a fuller bibliography than the one of Eileen
              Loder is odd, as I have a photocopy of Eileen Loder's book (incomplete but
              usable anyway) and adding all the books related to germany I know of.

              Maybe we should get people from other parts of the world contributing
              titles of their own private libraries, so we can make the list more and
              more complete over the time.

              I plan to sort them alphabetically by the authors' names and include
              references under the books' common names, like the different stud books
              and racing calendars. Do you have any plans to publish your work as a
              printed book? In case you prefer the internet and electronic form, I will
              be glad to provide webspace and keeping the list updated regularly; for
              free of course.

              What do other list members think about this idea? Anyone else wants to
              contribute? Suggestions?

              Best regards
              ... Ralph ...
            • Sandra K. Snider
              ... My own bibliography is more of a wish list than a reflection of the contents of my personal library. It s currently over 50 pages long, and while I
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 6, 2003
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                Ralph Graulich wrote:
                >
                > Hi Tim,
                >
                > I hope you had a pleasent short vacation and came back relaxed. ...
                >
                > Maybe we should get people from other parts of the world contributing
                > titles of their own private libraries, so we can make the list more
                > and more complete over the time.
                >
                > I plan to sort them alphabetically by the authors' names and include
                > references under the books' common names, like the different stud
                > books and racing calendars. Do you have any plans to publish your work
                > as a printed book? In case you prefer the internet and electronic
                > form, I will be glad to provide webspace and keeping the list updated
                > regularly; for free of course.
                >
                > What do other list members think about this idea? Anyone else wants to
                > contribute? Suggestions?

                My own bibliography is more of a "wish list" than a reflection of the
                contents of my personal library. It's currently over 50 pages long, and
                while I admit that it includes some items no one else on earth is likely
                to care about, even if they were to be deleted, it would still be a
                pretty hefty document. I truly don't know *what* to do with it, except
                to keep it on my hard drive so I can refer to it as needed -- and to
                have a place to add new discoveries.

                Perhaps it would be a good starting point for a web bibliography? How
                many pages are other people running? If less than 50, I suppose I could
                volunteer to merge other lists into mine, but I really don't have much
                time to spare right now. Later?

                One thing I'd like to see is a good *annotated* bibliography, complete
                with descriptions (and perhaps even opinions) on the contents of the
                books. Stud books are more or less self-explanatory, but many of the
                works on my list remain mysterious.

                Hmmm, lots to think about here.

                Sandy
              • Ralph Graulich
                Dear Sandy, good points in your last posting, many of those I already have thought about, but often came to no final conclusion. The lists of mine are about
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 6, 2003
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                  Dear Sandy,

                  good points in your last posting, many of those I already have thought
                  about, but often came to no final conclusion.

                  The lists of mine are about the same size as yours are and are mostly
                  consisting of books I read about in other books and plan to buy them, when
                  I will come across them. Often you read bibliographies contained in some
                  books used by the author and find interesting titles. Over the years I
                  often noted them on my "wish list", sometimes adding different editions as
                  I stumbled across references to them, reprints or anything like that.

                  Concerning your idea of annotating this bibliography is a very point I
                  already thought about. This would make any bibliography much more useful,
                  as often you can imagine the content of a book of its title and sometimes
                  buy a book with an interesting title and a much lesser interesting content
                  - or vice versa if you are lucky.

                  I'd love to write reviews on several dozens of german books (and english
                  ones the same), but I don't assume my english to be suitable to publish
                  my own reviews. In case some volunteers like to proof-read and make
                  suggestions to improve them, this would encourage me to start writing.

                  I thought about having the list sorted alphabetically, a page (or later on
                  more) per letter, stating the short bibliographic information about the
                  books and providing a linked in-depth page if someone sends in a review
                  for a specific book. This surely can't be accomplished within a quarter of
                  a year, but I think it will get more and more useful with each new book,
                  new edition or review added to the list.

                  It's no problem for me, if I have to do the initial work of merging on my
                  own, just as long as it won't stay that way for all the time in the
                  future and others will jump on the train sending in their stuff. No one
                  needs to send in HTML code or anything like that, plain email maybe
                  including photos is sufficient. Maybe if someone gets a book she or he was
                  long time searching for, she or he can write about her or his first
                  impressions...

                  I assume we should keep this project in our minds and in case there's some
                  more of positive feedback, I will be there.

                  Best regards and thanks alot for your input
                  ... Ralph ...
                • Tim Cox
                  on 6/8/03 14:16, Ralph Graulich at maillist@shauny.de wrote: Hi Tim, I hope you had a pleasent short vacation and came back relaxed. Reading you try to compile
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 6, 2003
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                    on 6/8/03 14:16, Ralph Graulich at maillist@... wrote:

                    Hi Tim,

                    I hope you had a pleasent short vacation and came back relaxed.

                    Reading you try to compile a fuller bibliography than the one of Eileen
                    Loder is odd, as I have a photocopy of Eileen Loder's book (incomplete but
                    usable anyway) and adding all the books related to germany I know of.

                    Maybe we should get people from other parts of the world contributing
                    titles of their own private libraries, so we can make the list more and
                    more complete over the time.

                    I plan to sort them alphabetically by the authors' names and include
                    references under the books' common names, like the different stud books
                    and racing calendars. Do you have any plans to publish your work as a
                    printed book? In case you prefer the internet and electronic form, I will
                    be glad to provide webspace and keeping the list updated regularly; for
                    free of course.

                    What do other list members think about this idea? Anyone else wants to
                    contribute? Suggestions?

                    Best regards
                    ... Ralph ...


                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT

                    <a href=" http://www.tbheritage.com "> The holidays are coming! Great gift
                    ideas can be found at the Thoroughbred Heritage Store! </a>

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                    <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

                    Ralph

                    My long-term plan is to publish a bibliography but have not done anything
                    about it yet.

                    My collection of books covers 6100+ titles and over 11,000 volumes covering
                    all aspects of thoroughbred racing and breeding worldwide, in fact and
                    fiction. I have most of the stud books but not all.

                    My immediate task is to move all the books into a custom built library
                    extension to the house. This should be completed within six to eight weeks.
                    The library will have 'study areas' for any visitors who wish to use the
                    facilities. None of the books will be lent, but I am quite willing to do
                    some of the research (within limits). Sadly I know that the collection is
                    not yet complete and so some questions will have to go unanswered. The
                    earliest book is the Blundeville 'Four Chiefest Offices' (1580 edition) and
                    the most recent was published last month. I am happy to add books in any
                    language although some will have to remain unread.

                    For historical reasons the list is kept on two databases but my intention is
                    to merge the two. My other aim is to provide an Index of thoroughbred
                    articles to help students get to source material quickly. If such a
                    facility exists then I would be happy to contribute to it.

                    Later this year I will be very happy to collaborate on the building of a
                    worldwide thoroughbred bibliography.

                    Tim








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Anne Peters
                    I don t know if anyone s paid attention to it, but we have a large bibliography on the Thoroughbred Heritage site, with some book reviews and recommended
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 6, 2003
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                      I don't know if anyone's paid attention to it, but we have a large
                      bibliography on the Thoroughbred Heritage site, with some book reviews
                      and recommended reading. These were done early on with the site, and
                      anyone wanting to append it, or add reviews, recommendations, etc.,
                      please contact me or Pat. We'd love the assist.

                      http://www.tbheritage.com/Bibliography.html

                      Anne

                      Ralph Graulich wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear Sandy,
                      >
                      > good points in your last posting, many of those I already have thought
                      > about, but often came to no final conclusion.
                      >
                      > The lists of mine are about the same size as yours are and are mostly
                      > consisting of books I read about in other books and plan to buy them, when
                      > I will come across them. Often you read bibliographies contained in some
                      > books used by the author and find interesting titles. Over the years I
                      > often noted them on my "wish list", sometimes adding different editions as
                      > I stumbled across references to them, reprints or anything like that.
                      >
                      > Concerning your idea of annotating this bibliography is a very point I
                      > already thought about. This would make any bibliography much more useful,
                      > as often you can imagine the content of a book of its title and sometimes
                      > buy a book with an interesting title and a much lesser interesting content
                      > - or vice versa if you are lucky.
                      >
                      > I'd love to write reviews on several dozens of german books (and english
                      > ones the same), but I don't assume my english to be suitable to publish
                      > my own reviews. In case some volunteers like to proof-read and make
                      > suggestions to improve them, this would encourage me to start writing.
                      >
                      > I thought about having the list sorted alphabetically, a page (or later on
                      > more) per letter, stating the short bibliographic information about the
                      > books and providing a linked in-depth page if someone sends in a review
                      > for a specific book. This surely can't be accomplished within a quarter of
                      > a year, but I think it will get more and more useful with each new book,
                      > new edition or review added to the list.
                      >
                      > It's no problem for me, if I have to do the initial work of merging on my
                      > own, just as long as it won't stay that way for all the time in the
                      > future and others will jump on the train sending in their stuff. No one
                      > needs to send in HTML code or anything like that, plain email maybe
                      > including photos is sufficient. Maybe if someone gets a book she or he was
                      > long time searching for, she or he can write about her or his first
                      > impressions...
                      >
                      > I assume we should keep this project in our minds and in case there's some
                      > more of positive feedback, I will be there.
                      >
                      > Best regards and thanks alot for your input
                      > ... Ralph ...
                      >
                      >
                      > <a href=" http://www.tbheritage.com "> The holidays are coming! Great gift ideas can be found at the Thoroughbred Heritage Store! </a>
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • Sandra K. Snider
                      ... This is just too cool for words, Tim. I take it that you are located in UK? May I inquire, without violating your privacy, what part of the country?
                      Message 10 of 23 , Aug 6, 2003
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                        Tim Cox wrote:
                        >
                        > My collection of books covers 6100+ titles and over 11,000 volumes
                        > covering all aspects of thoroughbred racing and breeding worldwide, in
                        > fact and fiction. I have most of the stud books but not all.
                        >
                        > My immediate task is to move all the books into a custom built library
                        > extension to the house. This should be completed within six to eight
                        > weeks. The library will have 'study areas' for any visitors who wish
                        > to use the facilities.

                        This is just too cool for words, Tim. I take it that you are located in
                        UK? May I inquire, without violating your privacy, what part of the
                        country?

                        Sandy
                      • vt
                        ... Hello Tim, Visitors ? Are visitors allowed to take up residence ? Regards, Vicki. who can barely imagine that many horse books under one roof, never mind
                        Message 11 of 23 , Aug 6, 2003
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                          >My collection of books covers 6100+ titles and over 11,000 volumes covering
                          >all aspects of thoroughbred racing and breeding worldwide, in fact and
                          >fiction. I have most of the stud books but not all.
                          >The library will have 'study areas' for any visitors who wish to use the
                          >facilities.


                          Hello Tim,

                          Visitors ? Are visitors allowed to take up residence ?

                          Regards, Vicki.
                          who can barely imagine that many horse books under one roof, never mind
                          reading them all :)
                        • Tim Cox
                          on 7/8/03 2:25, Sandra K. Snider at snidersan@websurf.net wrote: ... This is just too cool for words, Tim. I take it that you are located in UK? May I
                          Message 12 of 23 , Aug 6, 2003
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                            on 7/8/03 2:25, Sandra K. Snider at snidersan@... wrote:

                            Tim Cox wrote:
                            >
                            > My collection of books covers 6100+ titles and over 11,000 volumes
                            > covering all aspects of thoroughbred racing and breeding worldwide, in
                            > fact and fiction. I have most of the stud books but not all.
                            >
                            > My immediate task is to move all the books into a custom built library
                            > extension to the house. This should be completed within six to eight
                            > weeks. The library will have 'study areas' for any visitors who wish
                            > to use the facilities.

                            This is just too cool for words, Tim. I take it that you are located in
                            UK? May I inquire, without violating your privacy, what part of the
                            country?

                            Sandy

                            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT

                            <a href=" http://www.tbheritage.com "> The holidays are coming! Great gift
                            ideas can be found at the Thoroughbred Heritage Store! </a>

                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                            <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

                            Sandy

                            Yes, I am in the UK, almost equidistant between Heathrow and Gatwick
                            airports.

                            Tim


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Tim Cox
                            ... Hello Tim, Visitors ? Are visitors allowed to take up residence ? Regards, Vicki. who can barely imagine that many horse books under one roof, never mind
                            Message 13 of 23 , Aug 6, 2003
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                              on 7/8/03 3:12, vt at vickory@... wrote:


                              >My collection of books covers 6100+ titles and over 11,000 volumes covering
                              >all aspects of thoroughbred racing and breeding worldwide, in fact and
                              >fiction. I have most of the stud books but not all.
                              >The library will have 'study areas' for any visitors who wish to use the
                              >facilities.


                              Hello Tim,

                              Visitors ? Are visitors allowed to take up residence ?

                              Regards, Vicki.
                              who can barely imagine that many horse books under one roof, never mind
                              reading them all :)


                              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT

                              <a href=" http://www.tbheritage.com "> The holidays are coming! Great gift
                              ideas can be found at the Thoroughbred Heritage Store! </a>

                              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                              <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

                              Vicki

                              Coffee will be on the stove. Longer stays to be negotiated.

                              Tim


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Sandra K. Snider
                              This is a belated (sorry about that) and only partial response to one of Ralph s earlier posts. ... Well, Ralph, I think your English is quite good, but, if it
                              Message 14 of 23 , Aug 17, 2003
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                                This is a belated (sorry about that) and only partial response to one of
                                Ralph's earlier posts.

                                Ralph Graulich wrote:
                                >
                                > I'd love to write reviews on several dozens of german books (and
                                > english ones the same), but I don't assume my english to be suitable
                                > to publish my own reviews. In case some volunteers like to proof-read
                                > and make suggestions to improve them, this would encourage me to
                                > start writing.

                                Well, Ralph, I think your English is quite good, but, if it would make
                                you feel better, I would be happy to proofread for you. (If I do say so
                                myself, I'm quite good at it). I just can't promise fast turnaround
                                time, being engaged on some other projects as well. LOL, sometimes, I
                                can't even keep up with my e-mail!

                                But the Heritage web site is always looking for book reviews to post, so
                                let's start somewhere, even if it does take us a while to finish one.
                                Okay?

                                Sandy

                                P.S. Personally, I'm very interested in the works of C. G. Wrangel, in
                                case you're in need of a suggestion for a starting point.
                              • Ralph Graulich
                                Dear Sandy, (and others unnamed) many thanks for your kind offer to assist in proofreading some book reviews. This encourages me to skim through my little
                                Message 15 of 23 , Aug 18, 2003
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                                  Dear Sandy, (and others unnamed)

                                  many thanks for your kind offer to assist in proofreading some book
                                  reviews. This encourages me to skim through my little library and review
                                  some of those books that might be interesting to other members of
                                  TBHeritage.

                                  Concerning the turnaround times it's no problem for me, as I got quite
                                  lots of work and thoroughly writing book reviews takes a good amount of
                                  time: reading, thinking, writing, checking. So take it for sure there
                                  won't be a dozen of reviews each month ;)

                                  As you mentioned the works of C. G. Wrangel, I have got his work "Das Buch
                                  vom Pferde" ("The Book of the Horse") in two volumes, which is now a
                                  hundred years old and said to be quite scarce, but nonetheless I think it
                                  is very interesting to read about the horse, it's breeding and treatment
                                  by real horsemen of the "old school".

                                  Best regards
                                  ... Ralph ...
                                • Sandra K. Snider
                                  ... This book is one of only two Wrangel works which I know to have been reprinted. The other is Das Luxus-Fuhrwerk : ein Handbuch für Equipagenbesitzer .
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Aug 18, 2003
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                                    Ralph Graulich wrote:
                                    >
                                    > As you mentioned the works of C. G. Wrangel, I have got his work "Das
                                    > Buch vom Pferde" ("The Book of the Horse") in two volumes, which is
                                    > now a hundred years old and said to be quite scarce ....

                                    This book is one of only two Wrangel works which I know to have been
                                    reprinted. The other is "Das Luxus-Fuhrwerk : ein Handbuch für
                                    Equipagenbesitzer". Both reprints were by Olms Press of Germany, which
                                    has a web site, if anyone cares to take a look, here:
                                    http://www.olms.de/

                                    Sandy
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