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Re: [Synoptic-L] "hallowing the name"

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  • Jeffrey B. Gibson
    ... If the one who hallows the name is God, then there are grounds for saying that the LP is eschatological in orientation -- the object of the prayer is (as
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 6, 2007
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      David Cavanagh wrote:

      > Jeffrey,
      >
      > I'm afraid I have no answer to your question, but a counter-question
      > immediately popped into my mind: if that is so, what effect does it have
      > on our understanding of the phrase "hallowed be your name" in the Lord's
      > prayer?
      >

      If the one who hallows the name is God, then there are grounds for saying
      that the LP is "eschatological" in orientation -- the object of the prayer is
      (as Jermias wanted to claim) to pray down into the present that which
      properly belongs to the eschaton.

      But if the ones who are to hallow the name (through martyrdom) are those who
      pray the prayer, then the prayer (or at least this petition) is not
      eschatological, and the aim of the petition is, as is that of all of the
      other prayers that the synoptic Jesus is presented as urging on his
      disciples, for divine aid to remain faithful now, to avoid apostasy in the
      face of a present crisis, to be willing to take up the cross that Jesus says
      is the fate of those who follow him..

      Jeffrey
      --
      Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
      1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
      Chicago, Illinois
      e-mail jgibson000@...
    • Jeffrey B. Gibson
      ... Thanks for this. But I fail to see how it is in any way relevant to, let alone answers, the particular question that I asked, namely, if there is any
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 6, 2007
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        John Lupia wrote:

        > Hi Jeffrey:
        >
        > As you know martyrdom in the first century meant "to
        > witness" and the leaders of the Church who bore
        > witness often to the point of death were esteemed and
        > revered. Eusebius of Caesarea wrote about this based
        > on oral tradition : "It is told that Paul was beheaded
        > by him (Nero) and Peter crucified at Rome; and this is
        > now confirmed by the splendid monuments to the names
        > of Peter and Paul still visited in the cemeteries of
        > the city of Rome. For the rest, Gaius, an ecclesiastic
        > who lived at the time when Zepherinus was Bishop of
        > Rome (199-217), in writing against Proclus, leader of
        > the Montanist sect (Kataphrygians), speaks of the
        > places where the sacred remains of the said apostles
        > were deposited: "I can show you the trophies of the
        > Apostles. If you will go to the Vatican or along the
        > Via Ostiensis you will find the trophies of the
        > founders of this Church" (Hist. Eccl. II, 25: P.L. 20,
        > 207-210).
        >

        Thanks for this.

        But I fail to see how it is in any way relevant to, let alone answers, the particular question that I asked,
        namely, if there is any evidence, as I remember there being, that in **first century Judaism** to "hallow the
        name" was thought to be synonymous with, or was known to entail, being willing to face/actually undergoing
        martyrdom.

        JG

        --
        Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
        1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
        Chicago, Illinois
        e-mail jgibson000@...

        God is not a chauvinist
      • John Lupia
        Hi Jeffrey: I misunderstood your question construing it to ask about first century reverence or hallowing the name of the martyr. Hence, I cited Eusebius who
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 6, 2007
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          Hi Jeffrey:

          I misunderstood your question construing it to ask
          about first century reverence or hallowing the name of
          the martyr. Hence, I cited Eusebius who wrote
          “monuments to the names of Peter and Paul.”

          In answer to your query then, try looking at Shmuel
          Shepkaru, "From after Death to Afterlife: Martyrdom
          and Its Recompense," AJS Review, Vol. 24, No. 1 (1999)
          : 1-44.

          Perhaps related to your query is the ancient belief on
          the power of a name. See Watson E. Mills, Gen. Ed.,
          Mercer Dictionary of the Bible. In the main entry
          "God," see sub article :"The Names of God," 336
          (available online at Google Books)

          John

          --- "Jeffrey B. Gibson" <jgibson000@...>
          wrote:

          >
          >
          > John Lupia wrote:
          >
          > > Hi Jeffrey:
          > >
          > > As you know martyrdom in the first century meant
          > "to
          > > witness" and the leaders of the Church who bore
          > > witness often to the point of death were esteemed
          > and
          > > revered. Eusebius of Caesarea wrote about this
          > based
          > > on oral tradition : "It is told that Paul was
          > beheaded
          > > by him (Nero) and Peter crucified at Rome; and
          > this is
          > > now confirmed by the splendid monuments to the
          > names
          > > of Peter and Paul still visited in the cemeteries
          > of
          > > the city of Rome. For the rest, Gaius, an
          > ecclesiastic
          > > who lived at the time when Zepherinus was Bishop
          > of
          > > Rome (199-217), in writing against Proclus, leader
          > of
          > > the Montanist sect (Kataphrygians), speaks of the
          > > places where the sacred remains of the said
          > apostles
          > > were deposited: "I can show you the trophies of
          > the
          > > Apostles. If you will go to the Vatican or along
          > the
          > > Via Ostiensis you will find the trophies of the
          > > founders of this Church" (Hist. Eccl. II, 25: P.L.
          > 20,
          > > 207-210).
          > >
          >
          > Thanks for this.
          >
          > But I fail to see how it is in any way relevant to,
          > let alone answers, the particular question that I
          > asked,
          > namely, if there is any evidence, as I remember
          > there being, that in **first century Judaism** to
          > "hallow the
          > name" was thought to be synonymous with, or was
          > known to entail, being willing to face/actually
          > undergoing
          > martyrdom.
          >
          > JG
          >
          > --
          > Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
          > 1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
          > Chicago, Illinois
          > e-mail jgibson000@...
          >
          > God is not a chauvinist
          >
          >


          John N. Lupia III
          New Jersey, USA; Beirut, Lebanon
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roman-Catholic-News/
          God Bless Everyone


          ____________________________________________________________________________________
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        • John Lupia
          In the Shepkaru article the words sanctification of the Divine name are used expressing the Hebrew qiddush ha-Shem. In footnote 2 on page 1 he cites : E.
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 6, 2007
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            In the Shepkaru article the words "sanctification of
            the Divine name" are used expressing the Hebrew
            qiddush ha-Shem. In footnote 2 on page 1 he cites : E.
            Grunewald, "Qiddush ha-Shem : An Examination of a
            Term," Molad, 24 (1968): 476-484 (Hebrew); S. Safrai,
            "Qiddush ha-Shem In the Teachings of the Tannaim,"
            Zion, 43 (1979) : 28-42

            John

            --- John Lupia <jlupia2@...> wrote:

            > Hi Jeffrey:
            >
            > I misunderstood your question construing it to ask
            > about first century reverence or hallowing the name
            > of
            > the martyr. Hence, I cited Eusebius who wrote
            > “monuments to the names of Peter and Paul.”
            >
            > In answer to your query then, try looking at Shmuel
            > Shepkaru, "From after Death to Afterlife: Martyrdom
            > and Its Recompense," AJS Review, Vol. 24, No. 1
            > (1999)
            > : 1-44.
            >
            > Perhaps related to your query is the ancient belief
            > on
            > the power of a name. See Watson E. Mills, Gen. Ed.,
            > Mercer Dictionary of the Bible. In the main entry
            > "God," see sub article :"The Names of God," 336
            > (available online at Google Books)
            >
            > John
            >
            > --- "Jeffrey B. Gibson" <jgibson000@...>
            > wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > John Lupia wrote:
            > >
            > > > Hi Jeffrey:
            > > >
            > > > As you know martyrdom in the first century meant
            > > "to
            > > > witness" and the leaders of the Church who bore
            > > > witness often to the point of death were
            > esteemed
            > > and
            > > > revered. Eusebius of Caesarea wrote about this
            > > based
            > > > on oral tradition : "It is told that Paul was
            > > beheaded
            > > > by him (Nero) and Peter crucified at Rome; and
            > > this is
            > > > now confirmed by the splendid monuments to the
            > > names
            > > > of Peter and Paul still visited in the
            > cemeteries
            > > of
            > > > the city of Rome. For the rest, Gaius, an
            > > ecclesiastic
            > > > who lived at the time when Zepherinus was Bishop
            > > of
            > > > Rome (199-217), in writing against Proclus,
            > leader
            > > of
            > > > the Montanist sect (Kataphrygians), speaks of
            > the
            > > > places where the sacred remains of the said
            > > apostles
            > > > were deposited: "I can show you the trophies of
            > > the
            > > > Apostles. If you will go to the Vatican or along
            > > the
            > > > Via Ostiensis you will find the trophies of the
            > > > founders of this Church" (Hist. Eccl. II, 25:
            > P.L.
            > > 20,
            > > > 207-210).
            > > >
            > >
            > > Thanks for this.
            > >
            > > But I fail to see how it is in any way relevant
            > to,
            > > let alone answers, the particular question that I
            > > asked,
            > > namely, if there is any evidence, as I remember
            > > there being, that in **first century Judaism** to
            > > "hallow the
            > > name" was thought to be synonymous with, or was
            > > known to entail, being willing to face/actually
            > > undergoing
            > > martyrdom.
            > >
            > > JG
            > >
            > > --
            > > Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
            > > 1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
            > > Chicago, Illinois
            > > e-mail jgibson000@...
            > >
            > > God is not a chauvinist
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > John N. Lupia III
            > New Jersey, USA; Beirut, Lebanon
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roman-Catholic-News/
            > God Bless Everyone
            >
            >
            >
            >
            ____________________________________________________________________________________
            > Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch
            > previews, get listings, and more!
            > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658
            >


            John N. Lupia III
            New Jersey, USA; Beirut, Lebanon
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roman-Catholic-News/
            God Bless Everyone



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          • Jeffrey B. Gibson
            Following up on my own question, I see that the article in TDNT on hAGIAZW (see below) points me to at least one author who supports the idea that martyrdom
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 6, 2007
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              Following up on my own question, I see that the article in TDNT on hAGIAZW
              (see below) points me to at least one author who supports the idea that
              martyrdom was a special way of "hallowing the name", i.e., G.E. Moore
              _Judaism_ Vol. 2 105 f.

              The entry also cites Midrash on Ps. 16:2 (61a).

              Is this Midrash on line anywhere?

              Jeffrey


              The holiness of the name of God, i.e., of God Himself, is
              particularly characterized by the expression “to hallow the name
              (of God).” This is often found in prayers with God as subject:
              “Hallow Thy name” (Tanna de-bē Elijjahu, 21, E), or, the same
              in substance though not in expression: “Hallowed be Thy name,”
              synonymous with “Glorified be Thy name.” The two latter terms
              are found together at the beginning of the Kaddish prayer:
              יִתְקַדַּשׁ וְיִתְגַדַּל שְׁמָךְ
              רַבָּא “Hallowed and glorified be Thy great name.” “God
              sanctifies His name by showing His holiness to the world,”36
               and by forcing men to acknowledge His name. Quite often,
              however, it is said of men, though usually only of Israelites, that
              they hallow the name of God. They do this by “so living that men
              must see and say that the God of Israel is the true God,” and
              especially by obeying the will of God in keeping the commands of
              the Torah and studying to achieve a blameless walk in the eyes of
              the world. Thus the hallowing of the name (קִידּוּשׁ
              הַשֵּׁם) is “the chief principle and motive of ethical
              action in Judaism.”

              --
              Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
              1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
              Chicago, Illinois
              e-mail jgibson000@...



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