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Re: [Synoptic-L] Q poll

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  • Mark Goodacre
    Thanks for the interesting poll, Tim. I always enjoy a good poll :) I can t help wondering whether the options are a little too restrictive and in two ways:
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 15, 2007
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      Thanks for the interesting poll, Tim. I always enjoy a good poll :)
      I can't help wondering whether the options are a little too
      restrictive and in two ways: (1) I was taught all sides of the
      question and encouraged to come to my own answer on the basis of the
      evidence -- that does not appear on the list; I try to do the same
      thing for my own students, though I add the disclaimer that it is
      possible that my presentation of other theories may be inadvertently
      influenced by my own preferred theory; (2) the way that the
      alternatives are described is a little forrthright, e.g. "Q is a
      figment of the imagination (someone plagiarized)" would not be the way
      that I would characterize Q sceptical work in my teaching, and I tend
      towards a certain sympathy with the Q sceptical position.

      Best wishes
      Mark

      --
      Mark Goodacre Goodacre@...
      Associate Professor
      Duke University
      Department of Religion
      Gray Building / Box 90964
      Durham, NC 27708-0964 USA
      Phone: 919-660-3503 Fax: 919-660-3530

      http://NTGateway.com/goodacre
    • Tim Lewis
      Yes I realised afterwards that I hadn t made clear what the question was because I probably need two questions. I will need to update the poll so as to
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 15, 2007
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        Yes I realised afterwards that I hadn't made clear what the question was
        because I probably need two questions. I will need to update the poll so as
        to distinguish between what the Mt-Lk common material is believed to be (as
        one's preferred hypothesis) and what the 'Q hypothesis' is supposed to be
        (i.e. what is the Q hypothesis--regardless whether one decides for or
        against it).

        I think there is a relationship between the identification of (a) what the Q
        hypothesis is and (b) what the material is concluded to be. Your response
        indicates that currently the poll reads as though asking (b) whereas I
        actually wanted to ask (a) i.e. whether there are many other institutions
        (like mine) out there teaching that the Q hypothesis merely represents a
        bunch of oral traditions [and as an extention into (b) some scholars take a
        more extreme perspective by seeing a united set of written materials].

        Perhaps "Q is a figment of the imagination (someone plagiarized)" spoils my
        intention for asking (a) since it would be a (b) type answer...I'll have
        another go at it!
        Thanks Mark for the comments,
        Tim

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Mark Goodacre" <goodacre@...>
        To: "Tim Lewis" <tim_lewis@...>
        Cc: <Synoptic@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:34 PM
        Subject: Re: [Synoptic-L] Q poll


        > Thanks for the interesting poll, Tim. I always enjoy a good poll :)
        > I can't help wondering whether the options are a little too
        > restrictive and in two ways: (1) I was taught all sides of the
        > question and encouraged to come to my own answer on the basis of the
        > evidence -- that does not appear on the list; I try to do the same
        > thing for my own students, though I add the disclaimer that it is
        > possible that my presentation of other theories may be inadvertently
        > influenced by my own preferred theory; (2) the way that the
        > alternatives are described is a little forrthright, e.g. "Q is a
        > figment of the imagination (someone plagiarized)" would not be the way
        > that I would characterize Q sceptical work in my teaching, and I tend
        > towards a certain sympathy with the Q sceptical position.
        >
        > Best wishes
        > Mark
        >
        > --
        > Mark Goodacre Goodacre@...
        > Associate Professor
        > Duke University
        > Department of Religion
        > Gray Building / Box 90964
        > Durham, NC 27708-0964 USA
        > Phone: 919-660-3503 Fax: 919-660-3530
        >
        > http://NTGateway.com/goodacre
        >
        >
        > --
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date:
        > 14/08/2007 5:19 PM
        >
        >
      • Eric Eve
        Mark Goodacre wrote: Thanks for the interesting poll, Tim. I always enjoy a good poll :) I can t help wondering whether the options are a little too
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 16, 2007
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          Mark Goodacre wrote:


          Thanks for the interesting poll, Tim. I always enjoy a good poll :)
          I can't help wondering whether the options are a little too
          restrictive and in two ways: (1) I was taught all sides of the
          question and encouraged to come to my own answer on the basis of the
          evidence -- that does not appear on the list; I try to do the same
          thing for my own students, though I add the disclaimer that it is
          possible that my presentation of other theories may be inadvertently
          influenced by my own preferred theory; (2) the way that the
          alternatives are described is a little forrthright, e.g. "Q is a
          figment of the imagination (someone plagiarized)" would not be the way
          that I would characterize Q sceptical work in my teaching, and I tend
          towards a certain sympathy with the Q sceptical position.


          .


          <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=15623871/grpspId=1705074057/msgI
          d=873/stime=1187184419/nc1=3848642/nc2=4706133/nc3=4776371>
          In addition to those points (both of which I'd endorse), I'd also be a bit
          leery of saying what "my institution" teaches. We're a group of pretty
          independent-minded scholars with a variety of views on the Synoptic Problem,
          and I very much doubt we all teach the same thing. There's certainly no
          official party line on the matter which the institution endorses (not even a
          party line that says undergraduates have to be taught about the Synoptic
          Problem or Q at all - judging by some examination answers I've read in the
          past I'd guess some aren't).

          Maybe the tutorial system at Oxford makes it particularly difficult (or
          particularly meaningless) to give an institutional answer to the question in
          any case. I certainly try to give my own students both sides of the
          question, but they know perfectly well what I think and that may well often
          influence what they think.

          In any case, I took a look at your survey but felt unable to respond because
          none of the categories seemed to fit

          -- Eric
          ----------------------------------
          Eric Eve
          Research Fellow and Tutor in Theology
          Harris Manchester College, Oxford
          http://users.ox.ac.uk/~manc0049/




          __





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tim Lewis
          Hi Eric, Perhaps the survey s usefulness may still be salvaged. After Mark s response I added the following clarification to the poll: This poll only asks
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 16, 2007
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            Hi Eric,
            Perhaps the survey's usefulness may still be salvaged. After Mark's response I added the following clarification to the poll:
            "This poll only asks what your institution claimed the Q hypothesis to be not what the Mt-Lk common material might be (select more than one if needed)..."
            The intention was to try to find out what is being taught/heard about what the Q hypothesis is (not which hypotheses lecturers prefer/espouse). One could tick/check all the responses if close enough...perhaps the poll would have been better served if I had used actual quotes from scholars concerning what is the Q hypothesis and then left a spot for "Other"?
            Cheers,
            Tim


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Eric Eve
            To: Synoptic-L
            Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 5:55 PM
            Subject: RE: [Synoptic-L] Q poll


            Mark Goodacre wrote:

            Thanks for the interesting poll, Tim. I always enjoy a good poll :)
            I can't help wondering whether the options are a little too
            restrictive and in two ways: (1) I was taught all sides of the
            question and encouraged to come to my own answer on the basis of the
            evidence -- that does not appear on the list; I try to do the same
            thing for my own students, though I add the disclaimer that it is
            possible that my presentation of other theories may be inadvertently
            influenced by my own preferred theory; (2) the way that the
            alternatives are described is a little forrthright, e.g. "Q is a
            figment of the imagination (someone plagiarized)" would not be the way
            that I would characterize Q sceptical work in my teaching, and I tend
            towards a certain sympathy with the Q sceptical position.

            .

            <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=15623871/grpspId=1705074057/msgI
            d=873/stime=1187184419/nc1=3848642/nc2=4706133/nc3=4776371>
            In addition to those points (both of which I'd endorse), I'd also be a bit
            leery of saying what "my institution" teaches. We're a group of pretty
            independent-minded scholars with a variety of views on the Synoptic Problem,
            and I very much doubt we all teach the same thing. There's certainly no
            official party line on the matter which the institution endorses (not even a
            party line that says undergraduates have to be taught about the Synoptic
            Problem or Q at all - judging by some examination answers I've read in the
            past I'd guess some aren't).

            Maybe the tutorial system at Oxford makes it particularly difficult (or
            particularly meaningless) to give an institutional answer to the question in
            any case. I certainly try to give my own students both sides of the
            question, but they know perfectly well what I think and that may well often
            influence what they think.

            In any case, I took a look at your survey but felt unable to respond because
            none of the categories seemed to fit

            -- Eric
            ----------------------------------
            Eric Eve
            Research Fellow and Tutor in Theology
            Harris Manchester College, Oxford
            http://users.ox.ac.uk/~manc0049/

            __

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mark Goodacre
            Tim, Thanks for the clarifications. I think the question inevitably plays into what people s preferred source theories are, though, especially Q is a figment
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 16, 2007
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              Tim,

              Thanks for the clarifications. I think the question inevitably plays
              into what people's preferred source theories are, though, especially
              "Q is a figment of the imagination (someone plagiarized)". Even in
              its revised form, it supposes that "institutions teach" a particular
              thing, rather than lay out the range of alternatives. I'm also not
              too keen on "someone plagiarized" for just one of the options. Why is
              "Q was a single written source", for example, not also "someone
              plagiarized"? Is it because two people plagiarized?

              All best
              Mark

              On 16/08/07, Tim Lewis <tim_lewis@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi Eric,
              > Perhaps the survey's usefulness may still be salvaged. After Mark's response I added the following clarification to the poll:
              > "This poll only asks what your institution claimed the Q hypothesis to be not what the Mt-Lk common material might be (select more than one if needed)..."
              > The intention was to try to find out what is being taught/heard about what the Q hypothesis is (not which hypotheses lecturers prefer/espouse). One could tick/check all the responses if close enough...perhaps the poll would have been better served if I had used actual quotes from scholars concerning what is the Q hypothesis and then left a spot for "Other"?
              > Cheers,
              > Tim
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Eric Eve
              > To: Synoptic-L
              > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 5:55 PM
              > Subject: RE: [Synoptic-L] Q poll
              >
              > Mark Goodacre wrote:
              >
              > Thanks for the interesting poll, Tim. I always enjoy a good poll :)
              > I can't help wondering whether the options are a little too
              > restrictive and in two ways: (1) I was taught all sides of the
              > question and encouraged to come to my own answer on the basis of the
              > evidence -- that does not appear on the list; I try to do the same
              > thing for my own students, though I add the disclaimer that it is
              > possible that my presentation of other theories may be inadvertently
              > influenced by my own preferred theory; (2) the way that the
              > alternatives are described is a little forrthright, e.g. "Q is a
              > figment of the imagination (someone plagiarized)" would not be the way
              > that I would characterize Q sceptical work in my teaching, and I tend
              > towards a certain sympathy with the Q sceptical position.
              >
              > .
              >
              > <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=15623871/grpspId=1705074057/msgI
              > d=873/stime=1187184419/nc1=3848642/nc2=4706133/nc3=4776371>
              > In addition to those points (both of which I'd endorse), I'd also be a bit
              > leery of saying what "my institution" teaches. We're a group of pretty
              > independent-minded scholars with a variety of views on the Synoptic Problem,
              > and I very much doubt we all teach the same thing. There's certainly no
              > official party line on the matter which the institution endorses (not even a
              > party line that says undergraduates have to be taught about the Synoptic
              > Problem or Q at all - judging by some examination answers I've read in the
              > past I'd guess some aren't).
              >
              > Maybe the tutorial system at Oxford makes it particularly difficult (or
              > particularly meaningless) to give an institutional answer to the question in
              > any case. I certainly try to give my own students both sides of the
              > question, but they know perfectly well what I think and that may well often
              > influence what they think.
              >
              > In any case, I took a look at your survey but felt unable to respond because
              > none of the categories seemed to fit
              >
              > -- Eric
              > ----------------------------------
              > Eric Eve
              > Research Fellow and Tutor in Theology
              > Harris Manchester College, Oxford
              > http://users.ox.ac.uk/~manc0049/
              >
              > __
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > ----------------------------------------------------------
              >
              > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/955 - Release Date: 15/08/2007 4:55 PM
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >



              --
              Mark Goodacre Goodacre@...
              Associate Professor
              Duke University
              Department of Religion
              Gray Building / Box 90964
              Durham, NC 27708-0964 USA
              Phone: 919-660-3503 Fax: 919-660-3530

              http://NTGateway.com/goodacre
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