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RE: [GPG] Re: [Synoptic-L] The Canny Steward (Lk 16:1-13)

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  • David @ Comcast
    BRUCE: For what it may be worth, my own study of the evidence disinclines me to mix Thomas in with the canonical Gospels. I accept the indications that Thomas
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 2, 2006
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      BRUCE: For what it may be worth, my own study of the evidence disinclines me
      to mix Thomas in with the canonical Gospels. I accept the indications that
      Thomas is later than all of them, and has drawn vaguely but detectably on at
      least the first three of them, but is not in the same tradition, the same
      Trajectory if one will, as any of them. I think Thomas represents Esoteric
      Christianity. I thus don't think it tells us anything about Jesus that we
      need to factor into any discussion of the Historical Jesus. It does tell us
      about receptivity to Jesus in a probably non-Palestinian context, which to
      me is an important subject, but still a separate one.

      DAVID I: I don't personally know enough about the details of Thomas to
      assign a 'trajectory' to it with respect to any of the canonical Gospels.
      However, as I think is generally acknowledged, its mere existence does lend
      weight to any synoptic theory that posits a sayings source. Like Lk's 'many'
      sources, Thomas works against a strict adherence to Occam when trying to
      solve the Synoptic problem. Similarly, IMHO, Q theories should take Thomas
      into account, in that re-constructions of Q that look more like Thomas
      should be preferred to those that look less like Thomas.

      Basically, what I think I'm suggesting is that *all* the evidence has to be
      taken into account. For example, suppose we posit an authorial process for
      the canonical Gospels that doesn't allow for accretion of texts over time,
      and then we realize that there is another text (e.g. perhaps the ending of
      Romans) that can only be accounted for by an accretion process. If we have
      to allow for this other process that created Romans, but deny it's
      applicability to the Synoptics, then we have to come up with a good reason
      why this process doesn't apply. Unless we can do that, then I suggest that
      we should allow that whatever forces (or processes) acted on one canonical
      NT text should be considered to have acted on the others as well.

      Turning this around, any Synoptic solution that considers the Synoptics in
      isolation is simply not taking all the relevant factors into consideration.
      Therefore, I believe we have to at least consider John, Thomas, Marcion, the
      Western text, Paul, the logia, Mark's notes from Peter, etc. when working
      out a Synoptic solution. Of course, we can always discount them after due
      consideration, but we do have to go through that process.

      David Inglis

      Lafayette, CA, USA

      Davidinglis2@...



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ron Price
      While I agree with Bruce that GTh tells us nothing (directly) about the historical Jesus, I also agree with ... There is a potential irony here, for if
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 3, 2006
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        While I agree with Bruce that GTh tells us nothing (directly) about the
        historical Jesus, I also agree with

        David Inglis that:

        > Q theories should take Thomas into account,

        There is a potential irony here, for if comparison with GTh helps us to
        solve the Synoptic Problem, then it might *indirectly* tell us quite a lot
        about the HJ!

        > re-constructions of Q that look more like Thomas
        > should be preferred to those that look less like Thomas.

        Indeed. So it could be quite significant that as in GTh and in my
        reconstruction of the sayings source there are no narrative passages (unlike
        "Q"), and they both consist solely of sayings attributed to Jesus (unlike
        "Q" which also includes sayings attributed to John the Baptist).

        Ron Price

        Derbyshire, UK

        Web site: http://homepage.virgin.net/ron.price/index.htm
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