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Sira/Sirach

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  • E Bruce Brooks
    To: Synoptic On: Sira/Sirach From: Bruce Does someone on this list know Biblical Hebrew? The title of a certain wisdom text in Hebrew includes the name Ben
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 10 8:28 AM
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      To: Synoptic
      On: Sira/Sirach
      From: Bruce

      Does someone on this list know Biblical Hebrew? The title of a certain
      wisdom text in Hebrew includes the name Ben Sira (final aleph), this is
      translated in the Greek Septuagint as Sirach (final chi). What now lost
      final guttural in BC Hebrew explains the BC Greek final chi?

      Is the problem of the (not entirely) lost final gutturals in Galilean
      Aramaic at all connected?

      Bruce

      E Bruce Brooks
      Warring States Project
      University of Massachusetts at Amherst
    • Jack Kilmon
      The book known as חכמת בן סירא Hochmat Ben Sira (Wisdom of Ben Sira), also ספר בן סירא Sefer Ben Sira (Book of Ben Sira) and משלי בן
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 11 3:54 PM
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        The book known as חכמת בן סירא Hochmat Ben Sira (Wisdom of Ben Sira), also
        ספר בן סירא Sefer Ben Sira (Book of Ben Sira) and משלי בן סירא Mishley Ben
        Sira (Proverbs of Ben Sira), I don't think the Greek chi was added by his
        Greek speaking grandson as a result of Galilean phonetics. Galileans would
        just drop the glottal stop all together. I think Yehoshua Ben Sira's
        grandson, translating the Hebrew work in Egypt around the time of the
        Maccabees, tried to approximate the glottal in Greek and the best he could
        do in Greek was a palatal fricative.

        Jack Kilmon
        Houston, TX

        -----Original Message-----
        From: E Bruce Brooks
        Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 10:28 AM
        To: Synoptic
        Subject: [Synoptic-L] Sira/Sirach

        To: Synoptic
        On: Sira/Sirach
        From: Bruce

        Does someone on this list know Biblical Hebrew? The title of a certain
        wisdom text in Hebrew includes the name Ben Sira (final aleph), this is
        translated in the Greek Septuagint as Sirach (final chi). What now lost
        final guttural in BC Hebrew explains the BC Greek final chi?

        Is the problem of the (not entirely) lost final gutturals in Galilean
        Aramaic at all connected?

        Bruce

        E Bruce Brooks
        Warring States Project
        University of Massachusetts at Amherst




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      • E Bruce Brooks
        Jack, , tried to approximate the glottal in Greek and the best he could do in Greek was a palatal fricative. What glottal? Isn t Sira an open syllable in
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 12 2:35 AM
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          Jack,

          ", tried to approximate the glottal in Greek and the best he could do in
          Greek was a palatal fricative."

          What glottal? Isn't Sira an open syllable in Hebrew?

          Bruce
        • Jack Kilmon
          Heya Bruce: The vernacular in 175 BCE was Aramaic. The terminal alefs and ayins were glottal stops. I think Sira s grandson was hearing the pharyngeal alef
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 12 7:47 PM
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            Heya Bruce:
            The vernacular in 175 BCE was Aramaic. The terminal alefs and ayins were
            glottal stops. I think Sira's grandson was hearing the pharyngeal alef and
            attempted to approximate it in Greek with a chi. That could explain the
            transition from Sira to Sirach. Of course, there could be other explanations
            but this one makes sense to me.

            Jack

            -----Original Message-----
            From: E Bruce Brooks
            Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:35 AM
            To: Synoptic@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [Synoptic-L] Sira/Sirach

            Jack,

            ", tried to approximate the glottal in Greek and the best he could do in
            Greek was a palatal fricative."

            What glottal? Isn't Sira an open syllable in Hebrew?

            Bruce



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