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Lk 22:16 - Not in Marcion's gospel. Possibly not in the earliest version of Lk?

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  • David Inglis
    Is there any evidence to suggest that v. 22:16: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. was not in
    Message 1 of 2 , Sep 9, 2012
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      Is there any evidence to suggest that v. 22:16: "For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be
      fulfilled in the kingdom of God." was not in the earliest version of Lk? In Adv Marcion IV Tertullian quotes from v
      22:14 and refers to v. 22:15, but does not mention v. 22:16, while Epiphanius quotes from both vv. 22:14-15, but then
      states that Marcion did not have v. 22:16:



      He falsified, "I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God." (Scholion
      63)



      Because Tertullian does not note the absence of v. 22:16 in Marcion's gospel, and as this verse does not have a parallel
      in either Mt or Mk, it is at least possible that it was not in his copy of Lk (although clearly Epiphanius did later
      have it in his copy). There is a difficult variant in v. 22:16: "On the one hand ouvke,ti could have been added to
      soften the abrupt saying: "I will not eat until..." - "No more will I eat until...". On the other hand ouvke,ti could
      have been omitted to remove the double negation." (Willker), but can this in itself make the whole verse suspect?



      David Inglis, Lafayette, CA, 94549, USA





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Mealand
      Tert. Marc.4.40 cites Lk.22.15 Concupiscentia concupivi pascha edere vobiscum, antequam patiar [Vulgate has different vocab: Desiderio desideravi hoc Pascha
      Message 2 of 2 , Sep 10, 2012
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        Tert. Marc.4.40 cites Lk.22.15
        Concupiscentia concupivi pascha edere
        vobiscum, antequam patiar

        [Vulgate has different vocab:
        Desiderio desideravi hoc Pascha manducare
        vobiscum ante quam patiar]

        but does Tertullian Adv.M.4
        quote Lk.22:14? The ref would be useful if T does cite this.

        Tertullian presumably thinks M does have 22.15 and uses this
        against M's opposition to institutions of the first covenant such
        as Passover: i.e. T argues M is inconsistent.

        With reference to Lk.22.16 -
        Might one argue that Marcion could have had a problem with
        someone eating the passover in the kingdom - too physical?
        I think Epiphanius 42 makes this point at Elenchus 63.
        But then I suppose someone might argue adding Lk.22.16
        modelled on Mk.14.25 could be seen as anti-Marcionite?

        Marcion is not my area so I am just trying to guess at what might
        be going on here.

        David M.

        ---------------
        The Greek of 42.63 (i.e. Elenchus 63) can be seen here:
        http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4LfUAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:epiphanius&source=bl&ots=Lg9XaIjPe8&sig=XyYpTQiUTV_w20mgpGCBCqkJlnc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=nLpNUN7kJ6Sw0QWL8YDwBg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false (scroll to pages
        355-356)
        --------------





        ---------
        David Mealand, University of Edinburgh


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