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Re: [Synoptic-L] The Achilles heel of the Farrer Theory?

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  • Ronald Price
    ... Chuck, What I meant to say is that if we consider each Double Tradition aphorism which has a version in Mark, the conservative Matthew copies/edits this
    Message 1 of 40 , Aug 3, 2012
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      I had written:

      > "(However it is worth noting that there is a difference between Matthew and
      > Luke here. For the conservative Matthew retains the Markan member in around
      > 80% of cases, whereas Luke appears more averse to duplication and retains it
      > in only around 50% of cases.)"

      Chuck Jones replied:

      > This corresponds closely to the percentages of Mk used by Mt and Lk overall.
      > So I don't know that it's an aversion to duplication in Lk rather than that he
      > simply omitted more of his source(s) that Mt.

      Chuck,

      What I meant to say is that if we consider each Double Tradition aphorism
      which has a version in Mark, the conservative Matthew copies/edits this
      version in around 80% of cases, whereas Luke copies/edits it in only around
      50% of cases.

      However I think you probably understood that in spite of my inaccurate
      wording, and you're quite right about Matthew and LukeĀ¹s omission of
      sources. I should have thought of that!

      Having now looked at the relevant aphorisms again, it is clear that most of
      the omissions of the Markan aphorism are because Matthew or Luke omitted not
      just the aphorisms itself, but the relevant section of Markan text which
      contained the aphorism. In other words in most cases the omission had
      nothing to do with the avoidance of duplication.

      Ron Price,

      Derbyshire, UK

      http://homepage.virgin.net/ron.price/syno_home.html



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    • Ronald Price
      ... Jeffrey, I don t know for certain. But there are two arguments that indicate a *probable* link. The first involves the immediate context. 1 Cor 1:21-22
      Message 40 of 40 , Aug 29, 2012
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        Jeffrey Gibson wrote:

        > How do you know for certain that 1 Cor 1:22 is an allusion to Mt 12:39
        > // Mt 16:4 c.f. Mk 8:12? After all, as we see in Josephus, "Jews"
        > /did/ seek "signs". So Paul may be making a statement about his
        > co-religionists that is based upon his experience/knowledge of them
        > rather than upon anything Jesus said, just as his statement about what
        > Greeks seek is based upon his experience of Greek culture and not
        > anything Jesus said.

        Jeffrey,

        I don't know for certain.

        But there are two arguments that indicate a *probable* link.

        The first involves the immediate context. 1 Cor 1:21-22 includes 'SOFIAS
        ..... KHRUGMATOS ..... IOUDAIOI SHMEIA AITOUSIN .....',
        with which we can compare the logia saying C5 (c.f. Q 11:29-32):
        '... H GENEA AUTH ... SHMEION ZHTEI ..... SOFIAN ..... KHRUGMA .....'
        Thus we have Jews (implicit in the original context of "this generation")
        requesting signs, and we have wisdom and preaching, all three together in
        both Paul and the logia.

        The second involves the wider context of 1 Cor chs. 1-4. This contains a
        cluster of apparent allusions to the logia.

        In addition to 1:21-22 there is 1:26-29 in which Paul wrote "consider your
        call" followed by the threefold repetition of "not many" and "God chose"
        (c.f. the logia saying C2, Mt 22:14).

        Then 1 Cor 2:4 refers to PEIQOIS SOFIAS LOGOIS (persuasive words of wisdom),
        which aptly describes the whole collection of wisdom sayings attributed to
        Jesus.

        Then there are several echoes of the logia: laying a foundation (1 Cor
        3:10-13, c.f. saying A22 'Rock/sand'); being filled, becoming rich and
        reigning (1 Cor 4:8, c.f. saying A1, Blessings); when reviled we bless (1
        Cor 4:12, c.f. saying A8 about loving enemies); kingdom of God associated
        with power (EN DUNAMEI, 1 Cor 4:20, c.f. saying C12, Mk 9:1). [For the first
        three of these Paul/synoptic echoes I am indebted to the section "Paul and
        Q" in Allison's "The Jesus Tradition in Q". Dale Allison surveys several
        possible links, but in the end is not convinced.]

        Ron Price,

        Derbyshire, UK

        http://homepage.virgin.net/ron.price/syno_sQet.html



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