Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Synoptic-L] The Achilles heel of the Farrer Theory?

Expand Messages
  • Ronald Price
    ... Mark Goodacre and Bruce, Firstly, I wonder if it would help to avoid the accusation of prejudgment if I were to define a category of doublet called a
    Message 1 of 40 , Aug 3, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Bruce Brooks wrote:

      > ..... would you mind citing one example of a "source" doublet (I waive the
      > fact that the label prejudges the interpretation) that you find especially
      > convincing?

      Mark Goodacre and Bruce,

      Firstly, I wonder if it would help to avoid the accusation of prejudgment if
      I were to define a category of doublet called a MarkPlus doublet.

      A MarkPlus doublet is a pair of aphorisms (or part-aphorisms) in either
      Matthew or Luke. Each member of the doublet is sufficiently close in wording
      to its counterpart that we can reasonably assume a common origin. One member
      of each pair can be seen from the context to have been derived from Mark.

      Using this definition, there are about 30 MarkPlus doublets. Where did the
      other member of each MarkPlus doublet come from? Neither oral tradition nor
      redaction provide a very satisfactory explanation for so much duplication.
      Surely the most likely explanation for the other members is that they came
      from another early written source, for then the duplication probably
      occurred out of a degree of respect for two early sources. (However it is
      worth noting that there is a difference between Matthew and Luke here. For
      the conservative Matthew retains the Markan member in around 80% of cases,
      whereas Luke appears more averse to duplication and retains it in only
      around 50% of cases.)

      Bruce asks for an example. Here are two for good measure, both related to Mk
      8:35.

      Mt 10:39 // 16:25 and Lk 17:33 // 9:24.

      Ron Price,

      Derbyshire, UK

      http://homepage.virgin.net/ron.price/syno_home.html



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ronald Price
      ... Jeffrey, I don t know for certain. But there are two arguments that indicate a *probable* link. The first involves the immediate context. 1 Cor 1:21-22
      Message 40 of 40 , Aug 29, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Jeffrey Gibson wrote:

        > How do you know for certain that 1 Cor 1:22 is an allusion to Mt 12:39
        > // Mt 16:4 c.f. Mk 8:12? After all, as we see in Josephus, "Jews"
        > /did/ seek "signs". So Paul may be making a statement about his
        > co-religionists that is based upon his experience/knowledge of them
        > rather than upon anything Jesus said, just as his statement about what
        > Greeks seek is based upon his experience of Greek culture and not
        > anything Jesus said.

        Jeffrey,

        I don't know for certain.

        But there are two arguments that indicate a *probable* link.

        The first involves the immediate context. 1 Cor 1:21-22 includes 'SOFIAS
        ..... KHRUGMATOS ..... IOUDAIOI SHMEIA AITOUSIN .....',
        with which we can compare the logia saying C5 (c.f. Q 11:29-32):
        '... H GENEA AUTH ... SHMEION ZHTEI ..... SOFIAN ..... KHRUGMA .....'
        Thus we have Jews (implicit in the original context of "this generation")
        requesting signs, and we have wisdom and preaching, all three together in
        both Paul and the logia.

        The second involves the wider context of 1 Cor chs. 1-4. This contains a
        cluster of apparent allusions to the logia.

        In addition to 1:21-22 there is 1:26-29 in which Paul wrote "consider your
        call" followed by the threefold repetition of "not many" and "God chose"
        (c.f. the logia saying C2, Mt 22:14).

        Then 1 Cor 2:4 refers to PEIQOIS SOFIAS LOGOIS (persuasive words of wisdom),
        which aptly describes the whole collection of wisdom sayings attributed to
        Jesus.

        Then there are several echoes of the logia: laying a foundation (1 Cor
        3:10-13, c.f. saying A22 'Rock/sand'); being filled, becoming rich and
        reigning (1 Cor 4:8, c.f. saying A1, Blessings); when reviled we bless (1
        Cor 4:12, c.f. saying A8 about loving enemies); kingdom of God associated
        with power (EN DUNAMEI, 1 Cor 4:20, c.f. saying C12, Mk 9:1). [For the first
        three of these Paul/synoptic echoes I am indebted to the section "Paul and
        Q" in Allison's "The Jesus Tradition in Q". Dale Allison surveys several
        possible links, but in the end is not convinced.]

        Ron Price,

        Derbyshire, UK

        http://homepage.virgin.net/ron.price/syno_sQet.html



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.