Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: The Achilles heel of the Farrer Theory?

Expand Messages
  • Joseph
    Ron, Seems to me there are indeed some more primitive aphorisms in Matt &/or Luke at times, though I recall thinking Fleddermann reaches in some instances. And
    Message 1 of 40 , Aug 1, 2012
      Ron,
      Seems to me there are indeed some more primitive aphorisms in Matt &/or Luke at times, though I recall thinking Fleddermann reaches in some instances. And to date, no one has provided sufficient theory that explains the doublet phenomenon.
      But what struck in in reading your "achilles heal" description is that its description is necessarily obtuse and conjectural by nature. Is this really the strongest, clearest argument we can make against the FT?

      Contrast that with problems we have with 2SH. Like:

      a. Matthew and Luke Independently used Mark.
      b. OopsÂ… we have tons of places where they both were copying Mark and share their disagreements with it. (Minor and Major Agreements).
      c. Explain away by adding diagram boxes.

      Joe

      Dr. Joseph Weaks
      Minister, Raytown Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
      Adjunct, Saint Paul School of Theology


      --- In Synoptic@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Price <ron-price@...> wrote:
      >
      > The aphorisms constitute the Achilles heel of the FT.
      >
      > For the FT deals very well with narratives and lengthy parables.
      >
      > But it fails to provide satisfactory explanations for the aphorisms, ...
      > Diagrammatically the problem would be solved by simply adding to the Farrer
      > diagram a box labelled e.g. "sayings source" or even "logia", with arrows
      > pointing to each of the other boxes. But then, of course, it wouldn't be
      > called the Farrer Theory. ;-)
      >
      > Ron Price,
      >
      > Derbyshire, UK
    • Ronald Price
      ... Jeffrey, I don t know for certain. But there are two arguments that indicate a *probable* link. The first involves the immediate context. 1 Cor 1:21-22
      Message 40 of 40 , Aug 29, 2012
        Jeffrey Gibson wrote:

        > How do you know for certain that 1 Cor 1:22 is an allusion to Mt 12:39
        > // Mt 16:4 c.f. Mk 8:12? After all, as we see in Josephus, "Jews"
        > /did/ seek "signs". So Paul may be making a statement about his
        > co-religionists that is based upon his experience/knowledge of them
        > rather than upon anything Jesus said, just as his statement about what
        > Greeks seek is based upon his experience of Greek culture and not
        > anything Jesus said.

        Jeffrey,

        I don't know for certain.

        But there are two arguments that indicate a *probable* link.

        The first involves the immediate context. 1 Cor 1:21-22 includes 'SOFIAS
        ..... KHRUGMATOS ..... IOUDAIOI SHMEIA AITOUSIN .....',
        with which we can compare the logia saying C5 (c.f. Q 11:29-32):
        '... H GENEA AUTH ... SHMEION ZHTEI ..... SOFIAN ..... KHRUGMA .....'
        Thus we have Jews (implicit in the original context of "this generation")
        requesting signs, and we have wisdom and preaching, all three together in
        both Paul and the logia.

        The second involves the wider context of 1 Cor chs. 1-4. This contains a
        cluster of apparent allusions to the logia.

        In addition to 1:21-22 there is 1:26-29 in which Paul wrote "consider your
        call" followed by the threefold repetition of "not many" and "God chose"
        (c.f. the logia saying C2, Mt 22:14).

        Then 1 Cor 2:4 refers to PEIQOIS SOFIAS LOGOIS (persuasive words of wisdom),
        which aptly describes the whole collection of wisdom sayings attributed to
        Jesus.

        Then there are several echoes of the logia: laying a foundation (1 Cor
        3:10-13, c.f. saying A22 'Rock/sand'); being filled, becoming rich and
        reigning (1 Cor 4:8, c.f. saying A1, Blessings); when reviled we bless (1
        Cor 4:12, c.f. saying A8 about loving enemies); kingdom of God associated
        with power (EN DUNAMEI, 1 Cor 4:20, c.f. saying C12, Mk 9:1). [For the first
        three of these Paul/synoptic echoes I am indebted to the section "Paul and
        Q" in Allison's "The Jesus Tradition in Q". Dale Allison surveys several
        possible links, but in the end is not convinced.]

        Ron Price,

        Derbyshire, UK

        http://homepage.virgin.net/ron.price/syno_sQet.html



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.