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RE: [Synoptic-L] Lk 22:17-20 - Blessing or giving thanks?

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  • David Mealand
    One further factor which might go in the direction which I think David Inglis is indicating would be this. Luke 9.16 has euloghsen in agreement with Mark (and
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 7, 2012
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      One further factor which might go in the direction
      which I think David Inglis is indicating would be this.
      Luke 9.16 has euloghsen in agreement with Mark
      (and Matthew). Luke 24.30 also uses euloghsen.
      The stories in these places are obviously similar to Lk.22.
      Given that in these two places Luke is not at all
      averse to using eulogew one could argue that it is
      then slightly odd that the shorter text of Luke 22
      has euxaristhsas rather than Mark's euloghsas.

      As for the wider issues connected with this passage
      I found a lot of very interesting material in an article
      by Deborah Bleicher Carmichael in JSNT for 1991 which
      makes serious use of David Daube's (1966) comparison of the
      traditions about the meal with Jewish Passover tradition.
      Many would argue that information about Passover practices
      mostly dates from after 70CE, but Daube and Carmichael
      are fairly cautious in this regard, and Naomi Cohen has,
      I think, shown that it is reasonable to claim that Philo
      was aware of a tradition of interpreting the bread or the
      meal - as "bread of affliction". It would therefore seem
      that there may have been precedent for interpreting the bread
      but not the wine. That would make the shorter text in Luke,
      and the repeated references in Acts to breaking of bread the
      more interesting. The longer text in Luke seems anxious to
      harmonize what were presumably divergent earlier traditions,
      its reference to blood is also more vocal on issues about
      which Luke is elsewhere more reticent.

      David M.


      ---------
      David Mealand, University of Edinburgh


      --
      The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
      Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
    • David Inglis
      David M earlier wrote: I would agree that the longer text is dependent on 1 Cor 11 though I think that it is an interpolation, and that the shorter text is
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 7, 2012
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        David M earlier wrote: "I would agree that the longer text is dependent on 1 Cor 11 though I think that it is an
        interpolation, and that the shorter text is original." This is very much my position, except that there is no single
        "shorter text." There are six different extant variants of Lk 22:17-20, of which the Majority Text is the longest. If
        you consider that the parallel passages in Mk and Mt, and also 1 Cor 11:24-25, are other variants of the same text, then
        there are eight variants that are shorter than the Majority Text. The trick is to figure out which can best be
        considered to have given rise to the others. My money is on the Mk/Mt variants giving rise to an early (non-extant) very
        similar variant of Lk, into which 1 Cor 11:24-25 was then interpolated. The problems this caused then gave rise to most
        of the other variants. I'm still polishing my arguments for this scenario, but if anyone would like to see an early
        version please let me know.

        David Inglis, Lafayette, CA, 94549, USA



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      • David Inglis
        This McDaniel: Miscellaneous Biblical Studies, Chapter Ten, Recovering Jesus Words By Which He Iinitiated The Eucharist - Thomas F. McDaniel, Ph.D., 2009
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 9, 2012
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          This "McDaniel: Miscellaneous Biblical Studies, Chapter Ten, Recovering Jesus' Words By Which He Iinitiated The
          Eucharist - Thomas F. McDaniel, Ph.D., 2009

          http://tmcdaniel.palmerseminary.edu/MBS_10_Eucharist.pdf appears to bear somewhat on this topic. However, I'm not in any
          way qualified to comment on it.



          David Inglis, Lafayette, CA, 94549, USA



          From: Synoptic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Synoptic@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Schacht
          Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 11:20 AM
          To: Synoptic@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [Synoptic-L] Lk 22:17-20 - Blessing or giving thanks?

          At 10:32 AM 7/3/2012, David Mealand wrote:
          >Isn't it the case that in many cases where
          >there is an underlying Hebrew or other Semitic stratum
          >there might not be very much difference between
          >"giving thanks" and "blessing" i.e. praising or
          >thanking God?

          Or, similarly, that this might be a translation issue from an underlying source text in a different language? For
          example, is there a difference between blessing and giving thanks in Aramaic?

          Bob Schacht
          Northern Arizona University





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