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RE: [Synoptic-L] JUDAS THE SICARIOS

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  • Dennis Goffin
    Since you quote John, Greg, that must mean that you accept the accuracy of 11: 47-50. Is that so ?Dennis ... Dennis Goffin Chorleywood UK To:
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 8, 2012
      Since you quote John, Greg, that must mean that you accept the accuracy of 11: 47-50. Is that so ?Dennis

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      Dennis Goffin

      Chorleywood UK

      To: Synoptic@yahoogroups.com
      From: g.c@...
      Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 01:08:30 +1100
      Subject: RE: [Synoptic-L] JUDAS THE SICARIOS




























      Dennis,



      There is no such person in the Gospels as "Judah the Sicarius"; it is rather

      Judas Iscariot. The attempts to derive "Sicarius" from "Iscariot" join a long

      list of derivations of dubious philology. These include the notion that

      "Iscariot" meant "the man of lies", the man who "handed over", the many who dyed

      things red, a fruit grower, a man with red hair or a ruddy complexion, the man

      from Kerioth, the man from Askar/Jericho/Kartah or the man from "the city" (i.e.

      Jerusalem).



      The derivation of "saccarii" from Iscariot is not only one in a long list of

      dubious derivations, it runs into the problem that the sicarii do not seem to

      appear until the 40s and 50s of the 1st century - too late for Jesus.

      Furthermore, the identification of Judas as "Iscariot" seems to derive from the

      fact that his father was Simon Iscariot (John 6:71; 13:2, 26).



      Greg



      From: Synoptic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Synoptic@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

      Dennis Goffin

      Sent: Thursday, 9 February 2012 12:03 AM

      To: gpg@yahoogroups.com; crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com; synoptic@yahoogroups.com

      Subject: [Synoptic-L] JUDAS THE SICARIOS



      It is interesting that amongst the followers of Jesus there was not only Simon

      the Zealot but there was also Judah the Sicarius.

      The Pharisaic movement was a broad church which included not only those who were

      prepared to try to bring in the kingdom of God by force of arms but also those,

      the Sicarii, who were prepared to assassinate those Jews who they regarded as

      collaborators.

      Jesus himself was clearly a Pharisee, since his views regarding the afterlife

      matched theirs entirely. Where he differed however was that he belonged rather

      to the quietistic side of the movement which was happy to accept Roman rule as

      long as the Jews retained religious freedom. This attitude however would have

      been unpopular with the more hotheaded nationalistic members of the movement who

      could not even stomach a half Jew as a king, let alone the Romans.

      It is easy to see therefore that if it became a choice for the general

      population between Jesus bar Abbas, a guerilla leader and stalwart patriot who

      had risked his life with his companions fighting the Romans and Jesus of

      Nazareth, the Jews were always going to choose the fighter against the pacifist.

      It was no good Jesus preaching that his kingdom was not of this world, a popular

      wonder worker such as he was easily aroused the messianic hopes of the

      multitude, much to the discomfiture of the Jewish establishment. It is

      unsurprising therefore that the Jewish authorities took the opportunity to

      remove him from circulation by passing him over to the Romans for condemnation

      on a charge of sedition. It would seem also that Judah the Sicarius became

      disillusioned with the pacifist approach of Jesus, which is why he was prepared

      to assist the Jewish authorities.

      Dennis

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      Dennis Goffin



      Chorleywood UK



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    • Jgibson
      ... Since you note that Jesus thought that his Kingdom was not of this world , does that mean that Jn 18:36 is accurate ? Jeffrey -- ... Jeffrey B. Gibson
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 8, 2012
        On 2/8/2012 9:37 AM, Dennis Goffin wrote:
        > Since you quote John, Greg, that must mean that you accept the accuracy of 11: 47-50. Is that so ?Dennis

        Since you note that Jesus thought that his Kingdom "was not of this
        world", does that mean that Jn 18:36 is "accurate"?

        Jeffrey

        --
        ---
        Jeffrey B. Gibson D.Phil. Oxon.
        1500 W. Pratt Blvd
        Chicago, Il.
        jgibson000@...
      • Dennis Goffin
        Jeffrey: Since you note that Jesus thought that his Kingdom was not of this world , does that mean that Jn 18:36 is accurate ?Dennis: The writer of John s
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 8, 2012
          Jeffrey: Since you note that Jesus thought that his Kingdom "was not of this world", does that mean that Jn 18:36 is "accurate"?Dennis: The writer of John's Gospel, like the Synoptics, had no way of knowing what exchange took place between Jesus and Pilate. He therefore adopted the accepted convention of his day, and put in Jesus' mouth what he considered his response to be, from what he knew of the beliefs of Jesus from tradition. In so far as these beliefs would seem to correspond with those prevalent in that sector of Judaism at that time, I consider them "accurate".. Dennis
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          Dennis Goffin

          Chorleywood UKTo: Synoptic@yahoogroups.com
          From: jgibson000@...
          Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 09:54:20 -0600
          Subject: Re: [Synoptic-L] JUDAS THE SICARIOS




























          On 2/8/2012 9:37 AM, Dennis Goffin wrote:

          > Since you quote John, Greg, that must mean that you accept the accuracy of 11: 47-50. Is that so ?Dennis



          Since you note that Jesus thought that his Kingdom "was not of this

          world", does that mean that Jn 18:36 is "accurate"?



          Jeffrey



          --

          ---

          Jeffrey B. Gibson D.Phil. Oxon.

          1500 W. Pratt Blvd

          Chicago, Il.

          jgibson000@...


















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