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Lk 9:26 in Whiston's NT

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  • David Inglis
    The text of William Whiston s Primitive New Testament is stated to be: According to the Greek Part of the MS. of Beza, now probably above 1600 Years old, in
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 9, 2011
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      The text of William Whiston's 'Primitive New Testament' is stated to be:

      "According to the Greek Part of the MS. of Beza, now probably above 1600 Years old, in the publick Library of the
      University of Cambridge: Collated by Patrick Young; A. B. Usher; and at least twice by Dr. Mills; besides a still later
      Collation. The Imperfections of which Copy are here supplied from the vulgar Latin."

      In this NT Lk 9:26 reads: "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall
      come in his own glory, and in his Fathers, and of the holy angels." However, as far as I'm aware, in D Lk 9:26a reads as
      follows: "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and mine,." In other words, just the word for "words" is missing, rather
      than the whole of the phrase: "and my words." Does anyone have any information on where Whiston found evidence to
      support his removal of the whole phrase?

      David Inglis, Lafayette, CA, 94549, USA



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Mealand
      David Inglis asks about Whiston s omission of the phrase and my words in Codex Bezae at Luke 9.26 I can t say what the text of D looked like in Whiston s
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 10, 2011
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        David Inglis asks about Whiston's omission
        of the phrase "and my words" in Codex Bezae at Luke 9.26

        I can't say what the text of D looked like in Whiston's
        time but the current photo display online runs
        OS GAR AN ............ EME KAI TOUS EMOUS
        TOUTON O UIOS TOU ANQRWPOU
        (The bit where I put dots looks something like
        APESXYNQ- but is fairly murky, other mss have EPAISXUNQH here)
        so I would translate "whoever is ashamed of me and of my (people?)
        of that person will the son of man be ashamed"

        Whiston's version is not that of the Latin of Bezae either as that
        has the equivalent wording:
        me et meos = me and mine
        (The Vulgate has the more widely accepted version: me ...et meos sermones
        - me and my words).

        As for why W did what he did I can only suggest some questions.
        Did Whiston actually try to read the Codex? Was he up to the job?
        Did he rely on something or someone else, not the Codex itself?
        Does he make other similar errors? Was the Codex in a worse state
        then than it is now?

        David M.



        ---------
        David Mealand, University of Edinburgh


        --
        The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
        Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
      • David Inglis
        David, this is what I know at the moment: WRT the gospels, Whiston reports that his NT is: According to the Greek Part of the MS. of Beza, now probably above
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 10, 2011
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          David, this is what I know at the moment:



          WRT the gospels, Whiston reports that his NT is:

          According to the Greek Part of the MS. of Beza, now probably above 1600 Years old, in the publick Library of the University of Cambridge: Collated by Patrick Young; A. B. Usher; and at least twice by Dr. Mills; besides a still later Collation. The Imperfections of which Copy are here supplied from the vulgar Latin.



          This site http://www.bible-researcher.com/versbib8.html has:

          1745. William Whiston, The Primitive New Testament. Stamford and London, 1745. In this revision of the KJV Whiston adopts the readings of the three earliest ("primitive") manuscripts which were then known to scholars. The Gospels and Acts are revised according to the Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis, the Pauline epistles according to Codex Claromontanus, and the rest according to Codex Alexandrinus. Whiston's source of information for the readings of these manuscripts was the apparatus of Mill 1707.



          Based on this I suspect the reading may have come from Mill. Does anyone know of an online source of Mill’s edition with all the variant readings he noted?

          David Inglis, Lafayette, CA, 94549, USA



          From: Synoptic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Synoptic@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Mealand
          Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:21 PM
          To: Synoptic@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Synoptic-L] Lk 9:26 in Whiston's NT






          David Inglis asks about Whiston's omission
          of the phrase "and my words" in Codex Bezae at Luke 9.26

          I can't say what the text of D looked like in Whiston's
          time but the current photo display online runs
          OS GAR AN ............ EME KAI TOUS EMOUS
          TOUTON O UIOS TOU ANQRWPOU
          (The bit where I put dots looks something like
          APESXYNQ- but is fairly murky, other mss have EPAISXUNQH here)
          so I would translate "whoever is ashamed of me and of my (people?)
          of that person will the son of man be ashamed"

          Whiston's version is not that of the Latin of Bezae either as that
          has the equivalent wording:
          me et meos = me and mine
          (The Vulgate has the more widely accepted version: me ...et meos sermones
          - me and my words).

          As for why W did what he did I can only suggest some questions.
          Did Whiston actually try to read the Codex? Was he up to the job?
          Did he rely on something or someone else, not the Codex itself?
          Does he make other similar errors? Was the Codex in a worse state
          then than it is now?

          David M.

          ---------
          David Mealand, University of Edinburgh

          --
          The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
          Scotland, with registration number SC005336.



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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David Mealand
          That sounds more likely as I think W was ejected from his chair in mathematics at the University of Cambridge in 1710 (for Arianism). This is presumably the
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 11, 2011
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            That sounds more likely as I think W was ejected from
            his chair in mathematics at the University of Cambridge
            in 1710 (for Arianism).

            This is presumably the book in question - it would
            need a trip to the 6th floor of the George Square
            library and special arrangements to get the book
            exhumed from wherever it is buried. So I can't
            see it happening soon I'm afraid. Maybe someone
            has a copy on ready access (!)

            -----------unamended extract from catalogue--------
            Kainē Diathēkē =? Novum Testamentum : cum lectionibus variantibus
            mss exemplarium, versionum, editonum, SS patrum & scriptorum
            ecclesiasticorum, & in easdem notis : accedunt loca Scripturae
            parallela, aliaque exēgētika, & appendix ad variantes l 1707
            Main Library - Special Collections
            -----------------------------------------------------

            David M.




            ---------
            David Mealand, University of Edinburgh


            --
            The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
            Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
          • Stephen Carlson
            ... http://www.csntm.org/printedbook/viewbook/JohnMillNovumTestamentum1707 -- Stephen C. Carlson Graduate Program in Religion Duke University [Non-text
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 11, 2011
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              On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:37 PM, David Inglis <davidinglis2@...>wrote:
              >
              > Based on this I suspect the reading may have come from Mill. Does anyone
              > know of an online source of Mill�s edition with all the variant readings he
              > noted?
              >

              http://www.csntm.org/printedbook/viewbook/JohnMillNovumTestamentum1707

              --
              Stephen C. Carlson
              Graduate Program in Religion
              Duke University


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • David Inglis
              Stephen, thank you. It s unfortunate that the naming of the files and the way they are presented gives you no clue as to the contents of each individual file
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 11, 2011
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                Stephen, thank you. It's unfortunate that the naming of the files and the way they are presented gives you no clue as to
                the contents of each individual file before opening it (for anyone who knows what I mean, there's no meta-data
                associated with the files), but this is way better than nothing. Now I just have to search for the correct file...

                David Inglis, Lafayette, CA, 94549, USA

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Synoptic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Synoptic@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Carlson
                Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 5:48 AM
                To: Synoptic@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Synoptic-L] Lk 9:26 in Whiston's NT

                On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:37 PM, David Inglis <davidinglis2@...>wrote:
                >
                > Based on this I suspect the reading may have come from Mill. Does
                > anyone know of an online source of Mill's edition with all the variant
                > readings he noted?
                >

                http://www.csntm.org/printedbook/viewbook/JohnMillNovumTestamentum1707

                --
                Stephen C. Carlson
                Graduate Program in Religion
                Duke University
              • David Mealand
                Amend the online page number to 0090b.jpg and you get Lk 9.26 the letter g appears before logous (words) and the apparatus says curtly Deest Cant.
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 11, 2011
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                  Amend the online page number to 0090b.jpg
                  and you get Lk 9.26 the letter g
                  appears before logous (words) and the apparatus
                  says curtly Deest Cant. presumably reporting
                  that Bezae doesn't have the word for words.
                  But there are other symbols kicking around there
                  that I don't have the time to track down
                  just now.

                  David M.






                  ---------
                  David Mealand, University of Edinburgh


                  --
                  The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
                  Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
                • David Inglis
                  Thanks David. I got there eventually as well. I assume that Cant is just short for Cantabrigiensis, which would make Bezae the obvious reference. So,
                  Message 8 of 8 , Nov 12, 2011
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                    Thanks David. I got there eventually as well. I assume that Cant is just short for Cantabrigiensis, which would make Bezae the obvious reference. So, unfortunately, this apparatus doesn’t help me track down Whiston’s variant. Nevertheless, thank you for your help.

                    David Inglis, Lafayette, CA, 94549, USA



                    From: Synoptic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Synoptic@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Mealand
                    Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 10:14 AM
                    To: Synoptic@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [Synoptic-L] Lk 9:26 in Whiston's NT

                    Amend the online page number to 0090b.jpg and you get Lk 9.26 the letter g appears before logous (words) and the apparatus says curtly Deest Cant. presumably reporting that Bezae doesn't have the word for words. But there are other symbols kicking around there that I don't have the time to track down just now.

                    David M.

                    ---------
                    David Mealand, University of Edinburgh



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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