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Re: [Synoptic-L] Reconstructions of the original Ending of Mark

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  • ddcanne@windstream.net
    If Mark is seen as literature, separated from the other gospels and fixed at just after the first Jewish Roman War, the ending (16:8) seems the best way it
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 19, 2011
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      If Mark is seen as literature, separated from the other gospels and fixed at just after the first Jewish Roman War, the ending (16:8) seems the best way it could have been ended. It points to new hope, new possibilities. There is really no compelling reason it should have ended with appearance narratives. "God is salvation." I see the other gospel endings as "requirements" for the new religion, "apologetics." (One finds reason for this need implied in Matthew 27:64-66.)

      Dennis Dean Carpenter
      Dahlonega, Ga.


      ---- Jeff Peterson <peterson@...> wrote:
      > In his second book on the Gospels (and his third to treat the
      > question), Austin Farrer suggested that the Matthaean conclusion expands on
      > "a single, lost sentence," along the lines of "But Jesus sent forth his
      > disciples to preach the Gospel among all nations" (*St Matthew and St Mark*,
      > 1954, p. 157). I think he should have stayed with his position in his
      > earlier *Glass of Vision* and *Study in St Mark*, viz., 16:8 is the
      > conclusion as Mark wrote it.
      >
      > Jeff Peterson
      > Austin Graduate School of Theology
      > Austin, TX
      >
    • Graham E Budd
      A few more: Probyn (1925): Acts 1:6-11 is a Lucan redaction of the end of Mark. Goodspeed: like Schweizer Rendel Harris: ends for they were afraid of the
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 19, 2011
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        A few more:

        Probyn (1925): Acts 1:6-11 is a Lucan redaction of the end of Mark.
        Goodspeed: like Schweizer
        Rendel Harris: ends "for they were afraid of the Jews". (!)
        Moule, ?St Mark XVI.8 Once More,? NTS 2 (1955) 58?59 has "kai euthus
        legousin tois mathhtais peri pantwn toutwn"
        Bacon: Some account of the rallying of the disciples in Galilee by Jesus.
        Streeter: Like John 21
        Kevin (1926, JBL): Complex argument that Mark ran on into John 21-like
        appearances followed by something like the beginning of Acts, that was
        later summarised by the Longer Ending.

        GB


        Quoting Graham E Budd <graham.budd@...>:

        > So, I have dug up:
        >
        > Schweizer, Mt 28:9-10 plus Mk 16-20 (Good News According to Mark: Eng.
        > tr. 1970)
        > Bartsch: Mt 28:2-5, 9-10 (Mark familiar with 1 Cor 15:3-7) (TZ 1971)
        > Farmer: most of 16:9-20 was the original.
        > Osborne: Mt 28:9-10 (Resurrection Narratives), along with Trompf
        > Haefner: Acts 1:13-14 links Mark 16:8 to Acts 3-4
        > Burkett: has reconstructed proto-Mark A and proto-Mark B endings;
        > Schmithals: Like Linnemann's, but his source also contained
        > appearances to Peter (transposed to the Tranfiguration) and to the
        > Twelve, which he moved to 3:13-19.
        >
        > Apparently Bartsch, Ursprungliche SchluB der Leidensgeschichte has more in!
        > (in L'évangile selon Marc, pp 411-433).
        >
        > Graham
        >
        > Quoting Wieland Willker <wie@...>:
        >
        >> Ok, for the nit-pickers I rephrase my question here:
        >>
        >> It is very improbable that there ever was anything original
        >> after 16:8 of the Gospel of Mark (published).
        >>
        >> Nevertheless, for the history of research it is interesting
        >> that attempts have been made to find some longer, "original"
        >> ending.
        >>
        >> So far I know of two:
        >>
        >> 1. Harnack/Rohrbach, 1893/94: suggested that the original
        >> ending was utilized in the ending of the Gospel of Peter and
        >> that it then continued along the lines of Jo 21.
        >>
        >> 2. Eta Linnemann 1969 suggested that Mt 28:16-17 + Mk
        >> 16:15-20 was basically the original ending of Mk.
        >>
        >>
        >> Do you know any other attempts like this?
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Best wishes
        >> Wieland
        >> <><
        >> --------------------------
        >> Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
        >> http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie
        >> Textcritical commentary:
        >> http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Wieland Willker
        Wow, Graham, that s great stuff! Thank you! Didn t know about the Harris quote. Interesting suggestion! I will look all these up for the commentary. Of
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 19, 2011
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          Wow, Graham, that's great stuff!
          Thank you!
          Didn't know about the Harris quote. Interesting suggestion!

          I will look all these up for the commentary.
          Of learning there is no end ...


          Btw, the book "Side-lights on New Testament research" from
          Rendel Harris might be a good addition to archive.org. So if
          someone has it within reach ...

          Thanks all!

          Best wishes
          Wieland
          <><
          --------------------------
          Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
          http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie
          Textcritical commentary:
          http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/
        • Mark Goodacre
          ... Agreed -- some interesting stuff there! ... It s available in toto on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=LuTvz7V3YkUC Is this one of those that
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 19, 2011
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            On 19 February 2011 10:56, Wieland Willker <wie@...> wrote:
            >
            > Wow, Graham, that's great stuff!
            > Thank you!
            > Didn't know about the Harris quote. Interesting suggestion!

            Agreed -- some interesting stuff there!

            > Btw, the book "Side-lights on New Testament research" from
            > Rendel Harris might be a good addition to archive.org. So if
            > someone has it within reach ...

            It's available in toto on Google Books:

            http://books.google.com/books?id=LuTvz7V3YkUC

            Is this one of those that is locked down to users outside the US? If
            so, I could send you a PDF.

            Cheers
            Markl
            >
            > Thanks all!
            >
            > Best wishes
            > Wieland
            > <><
            > --------------------------
            > Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
            > http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie
            > Textcritical commentary:
            > http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/
            >
            >


            --
            Mark Goodacre
            Duke University
            Department of Religion
            Gray Building / Box 90964
            Durham, NC 27708-0964    USA
            Phone: 919-660-3503        Fax: 919-660-3530

            http://www.markgoodacre.org
          • Wieland Willker
            ... Schmithals is cool. He thinks that there was no ending, but that Mk added Mk 14:28 and 16:7 to remind the readers of something like 1Co 15:5. The two
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 23, 2011
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              Graham E Budd wrote:
              > Schmithals: Like Linnemann's, but his source also contained
              > appearances to Peter (transposed to the Tranfiguration) and to
              > the Twelve, which he moved to 3:13-19.


              Schmithals is cool. He thinks that there was no ending, but that Mk added Mk
              14:28 and 16:7 to remind the readers of something like 1Co 15:5. The two
              verses are superfluous if the appearances to Peter and the Twelve are
              actually told at the end of the Gospel. Compare:
              Mark 14:28 But after I am raised up, I will go before you to Galilee."
              Mark 16:7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going ahead of you
              to Galilee; there you will see him, just as he told you."

              Schmithals continues with the idea that Mk nevertheless knew the stories
              about Jesus appearance to Peter and the Twelve from his source, but inserted
              them in a pre-Easter context.
              Peter: Mk 9:2-8 (the transfiguration), the Twelve: Mk 3:13-19 (the
              appointment of the disciples).
              He further knew Mk 16:15-20 from his source! Thus, according to Schmithals
              the complete ending in Mark's *source* was:
              16:1-6, 8 + 9:2-8a + 3:13-19 + 16:15-20 (not literally, but the basic
              content).


              Best wishes
              Wieland
              <><
              --------------------------
              Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
              http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie
              Textcritical commentary:
              http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/
            • Chuck Jones
              Wieland, If Schmithals is correct, then his analysis begs the question, Why would Mk do all this surgery to his source? Here s an obvious answer:  Mk knew
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 23, 2011
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                Wieland,

                If Schmithals is correct, then his analysis begs the question, Why would Mk do all this surgery to his source?

                Here's an obvious answer:  Mk knew that the third-day Jerusalem appearance legends were just that, and that the appearances of Jesus in fact occurred in Galilee, some time after Jesus' death.  He walks a redactical tightrope by including the (legendary, I believe) empty tomb story without an appearance of Jesus taking place!
                Rev. Chuck Jones
                Atlanta, Georgia
                ___________________

                Schmithals is cool. He thinks that there was no ending, but that Mk added Mk

                14:28 and 16:7 to remind the readers of something like 1Co 15:5. The two

                verses are superfluous if the appearances to Peter and the Twelve are

                actually told at the end of the Gospel. Compare:

                Mark 14:28 But after I am raised up, I will go before you to Galilee."

                Mark 16:7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going ahead of you

                to Galilee; there you will see him, just as he told you."



                Schmithals continues with the idea that Mk nevertheless knew the stories

                about Jesus appearance to Peter and the Twelve from his source, but inserted

                them in a pre-Easter context.

                Peter: Mk 9:2-8 (the transfiguration), the Twelve: Mk 3:13-19 (the

                appointment of the disciples).

                He further knew Mk 16:15-20 from his source! Thus, according to Schmithals

                the complete ending in Mark's *source* was:

                16:1-6, 8 + 9:2-8a + 3:13-19 + 16:15-20 (not literally, but the basic

                content).



                Best wishes

                Wieland

                <><

                --------------------------

                Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany

                http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie

                Textcritical commentary:

                http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/






























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