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Chuks comments on the Eucharist.

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  • Richard Richmond
    Chuck below are your comments: I will make my one brief response. First off I would suggest that you might want to read the community rule or the manual of
    Message 1 of 1 , Jul 8, 2005
      Chuck below are your comments:

      I will make my one brief response. First off I would
      suggest that you might want to read the "community
      rule" or "the manual of discipline" as it is called in
      some editions from the Qumran community of the Dead
      Sea. There you will see a meal that is all but
      identical to the Eucharist. It was instituted by the
      community of Qumran long before Jesus or John came on
      the scene. The meal was intended to re-enact portions
      of temple worship including the daily sacrifice. You
      can see a modern enactment of the Essene ritual at any
      Roman Catholic mass complete with the ceremonial
      washing of the hands by the priest, consecration of
      the bread and wine and the two part division of the
      sacrifice. The first is called the mass of the
      Catechumens and the second is called the mass of the
      Faithful. In the Essene movement one was not allowed
      to partake of the sacred meal until he had proved
      himself for at least a year as one who upheld the
      community rule and the law of Moses. In addition to
      these facts you can observe the Priests of the RCC
      taking communion (bread) in a little pouch to shutins
      just as missionaries carried the Eucharist with them
      in the first century. The Agape feast is another name
      for this meal as it was practiced daily by the people
      of the Way an offshoot of the Essenes movement that
      differed mostly in their attitude toward enemies.

      I am surprised that you think the Eucharist was such a
      late development when it was being practiced ritually
      during the ministry of Paul and documented long before
      out four Gospels came into existence.

      As always, Thank you for your comments.


      3.) On the trip to the other side the disciples become
      aware that they have forgotten to take loaves. Note
      that it is in the plural form of noun ARTOUS. The
      point is not that they forgot to bring food; they
      forgot to bring the loaves necessary to celebrate the


      This is an excellent example of an anachronistic
      reading. The Eucharist evolved over multiple decades
      after Jesus died, and there is no evidence in Mark of
      an awareness of a tradition of re-enacting the Last
      Supper. Are you suggesting Mark would have his
      readers believe the disciples celebrated the Lord's
      Supper before there was a Last Supper?


      4.) In Mark’s narrative the fact that the disciples
      would even discuss not having loaves is an indication
      to Jesus that they do not understand the point of the
      feeding parables.


      The feedings were not parables. They were miracle
      stories and were not recorded in the synoptics to
      teach symbollic or allegorical lessons (Jn interprets
      the feeding of the 5,000 allegorically in his gospel,
      making it even more striking that the synoptics do NOT
      do this).


      8.) There are two points that Mark wants his readers
      to get from this symbolic equation. First, among the
      twelve disciples only five were called by Jesus.
      Secondly the way to recognize the leaven of the
      Pharisees and of Herod is by doing the Math i.e. by
      counting as in comparing the ratio of loaves to the
      number of baskets of leftovers.


      If this was what Mark wanted his readers to
      understand, he failed miserably, didn't he?

      Chuck Jones

      Rick Richmond rickr2889@...

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