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Re: [Synoptic-L] Crediting An E-List

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  • Stephen C. Carlson
    ... Agreed that the blizzard of precise URL s is obviously unwieldy. I have toyed with the idea that archived mailing lists ought to be cited like
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 5, 2009
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      On Mar 5, 2009 2:21 AM, E Bruce Brooks <brooks@...> wrote:
      >1. The blizzard of precise URL's is obviously unwieldy, and since in print
      >(JBL) there is no option of clicking on them to bring up the comment in
      >question, they are somewhat frustrating. This is why our recommendation is
      >simply for the author, date, and name (not also the self-characterization)
      >of the E-list in question. Since the Synoptic-L archive is in fact open to
      >the public, a search by the URL could be useful; one would have to type it
      >in, but in this way, as with a printed book, the correctness of the citation
      >could be verified, and the context investigated if desired. Much better
      >would be a situation where a Google search merely on the name "synoptic-l"
      >yielded the home page in question.

      Agreed that the "blizzard of precise URL's is obviously unwieldy." I have
      toyed with the idea that archived mailing lists ought to be cited like
      newspapers; for example: Stephen C. Carlson, "Re: [Synoptic-L] "Self-
      Contradiction in the IQP": A Response," Synoptic-L, Sep. 19, 1999, no. 3104.
      As long as it is findable by Google, it should be OK. In fact, being
      findable by Google seems to be stable for longer than precise URLs.

      >My test of that possibility got me this
      >message:
      >Forbidden
      >You don't have permission to access /~goodacre/synoptic-l/ on this server.
      >
      >Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an
      >ErrorDocument to handle the request.
      >
      >
      >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >Apache/2.2.3 Server at www.duke.edu Port 80
      >
      >Maybe Mark G could speak to his tech people about this. It is highly
      >impolite at best, and mendacious at worst, since everybody and his
      >brother-in-law, members or no, can in fact get into the Synoptic-L archive.

      Duke has been having some computing problems lately. Mark G is aware--and
      frustrated--by these problems.

      >2. Michael's recommendation to cite "matured" opinions applies of course to
      >printed as well as volatile media, and the only way to apply that principle
      >is to cite the latest available utterance of the person in question. The
      >question of volatile media as such, as distinct from print media, does not
      >arise.

      Yes, I would agree. I took it as a warning that an author may change his
      mind (which also happens for print publications) and one must be watch out
      for that possibility. In this case, Mark's modification of his position
      was made on list shortly after the cited message.

      >3.In their previous n34, Derrenbacker and Kloppenborg Verbin say, of the
      >Goodacre comment there cited (again with an unwieldy URL), "Cited by
      >permission of the author." I do not think that the permission of any author
      >of a public document is required to cite that document. If Synoptic-L had a
      >closed archive (as would be consistent with an "opportunity for proposing
      >and discussing ideas," then the document is in fact private, shared only
      >within a limited circle (the circle itself requiring a definite admission
      >process), and as with a predraft circulated on paper, permission to cite
      >would indeed be required. Does the open archive policy of Synoptic-L need to
      >be reconsidered in the light of these considerations? At present, anything
      >anybody says to anybody else immediately becomes part of the public record.

      If it's on the web and publicly accessible, then I think it is citable. I
      don't see "permission" being necessary. I do see, however, that for the
      best scholarship some inquiry ought to be made to determine whether this is
      the author's mature opinion and he has not changed his mind -- but I would
      advise this for printed references as well.

      >(For contrast, my Sinological list WSW, which is designed explicitly as a
      >prediscussion medium - the acronym expands to Warring States Workshop -
      >consistently has a closed archive, available only to those who are currently
      >in the discussion).

      Yes, that is an alternative.

      >Any more examples of a Synoptic-L citation in the real world?

      Not that I'm aware. Those posts were from the golden age of the list, when the
      medium was still fresh and one of the regular contributors was still alive. It
      is only just recently (past year or so) that the list has started having its
      renaissance.

      Stephen

      --
      Stephen C. Carlson
      Ph.D. student, Religion, Duke University
      Author of The Gospel Hoax: Morton Smith's Invention of Secret Mark (Baylor, 2005)
    • Mark Goodacre
      ... Thanks for noting these. Yes, the Duke servers suffered some kind of meltdown this week and my pages were offline for days. I decided to move my pages to
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 8, 2009
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        2009/3/5 Stephen C. Carlson <scarlson@...>:

        > On Mar 5, 2009 2:21 AM, E Bruce Brooks <brooks@...> wrote:

        >>My test of that possibility got me this
        >>message:
        >>Forbidden
        >>You don't have permission to access /~goodacre/synoptic-l/ on this server.
        >>
        >>Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an
        >>ErrorDocument to handle the request.
        >>
        >>
        >>----------------------------------------------------------
        >>
        >>Apache/2.2.3 Server at www.duke.edu Port 80
        >>
        >>Maybe Mark G could speak to his tech people about this. It is highly
        >>impolite at best, and mendacious at worst, since everybody and his
        >>brother-in-law, members or no, can in fact get into the Synoptic-L archive.
        >
        > Duke has been having some computing problems lately. Mark G is aware--and
        > frustrated--by these problems.

        Thanks for noting these. Yes, the Duke servers suffered some kind of
        meltdown this week and my pages were offline for days. I decided to
        move my pages to a new URL at markgoodace.org and I have moved the
        Synoptic-L page there too, at http://www.markgoodacre.org/synoptic-l.

        Best wishes
        Mark

        --
        Mark Goodacre Goodacre@...
        Associate Professor
        Duke University
        Department of Religion
        Gray Building / Box 90964
        Durham, NC 27708-0964 USA
        Phone: 919-660-3503 Fax: 919-660-3530

        http://www.markgoodacre.org
      • Horace Jeffery Hodges
        Mark, this is missing the second  r :   markgoodace.org   Here s the full, corrected address:   http://markgoodacre.org/ Jeffery Hodges   ... From: Mark
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 8, 2009
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          Mark, this is missing the second "r":
           
          markgoodace.org
           
          Here's the full, corrected address:
           
          http://markgoodacre.org/

          Jeffery Hodges
           

          --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Mark Goodacre <Goodacre@...> wrote:


          From: Mark Goodacre <Goodacre@...>
          Subject: Re: [Synoptic-L] Crediting An E-List
          To: Synoptic@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 3:52 PM


          2009/3/5 Stephen C. Carlson <scarlson@...>:

          > On Mar 5, 2009 2:21 AM, E Bruce Brooks <brooks@...> wrote:

          >>My test of that possibility got me this
          >>message:
          >>Forbidden
          >>You don't have permission to access /~goodacre/synoptic-l/ on this server.
          >>
          >>Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an
          >>ErrorDocument to handle the request.
          >>
          >>
          >>----------------------------------------------------------
          >>
          >>Apache/2.2.3 Server at www.duke.edu Port 80
          >>
          >>Maybe Mark G could speak to his tech people about this. It is highly
          >>impolite at best, and mendacious at worst, since everybody and his
          >>brother-in-law, members or no, can in fact get into the Synoptic-L archive.
          >
          > Duke has been having some computing problems lately. Mark G is aware--and
          > frustrated--by these problems.

          Thanks for noting these.  Yes, the Duke servers suffered some kind of
          meltdown this week and my pages were offline for days.  I decided to
          move my pages to a new URL at markgoodace.org and I have moved the
          Synoptic-L page there too, at http://www.markgoodacre.org/synoptic-l.

          Best wishes
          Mark

          --
          Mark Goodacre            Goodacre@...
          Associate Professor
          Duke University
          Department of Religion
          Gray Building / Box 90964
          Durham, NC 27708-0964    USA
          Phone: 919-660-3503        Fax: 919-660-3530

          http://www.markgoodacre.org


          ------------------------------------

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