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Re: [Synoptic-L] On The Earliest Markan Narrative

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  • Dennis Dean Carpenter
    Bruce stated: I think a more mixed view is a better description of the whole. As von Soden long ago pointed out, large tracts of Mark are extremely sunny.
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 17, 2009
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      Bruce stated: "I think a more mixed view is a better description of the whole. As
      von Soden long ago pointed out, large tracts of Mark are extremely sunny.
      They have Jesus preaching openly to large and enthusiastic crowds, Jesus
      healing many, Jesus commanding the forces of nature, everything going well.
      Nowhere in this material does Jesus curse his disciples, or intentionally
      hide his message from his hearers. Then, as von Soden also pointed out, you
      also have the other and gloomier part, the secretive Jesus, the abusive
      Jesus, the impatient Jesus. The problem of Mark, as von Soden thus expressed
      it, is to explain what these two types of material are doing in there
      together. The tension demands some sort of resolution in the reader's or
      hearer's mind. Wrede made a good beginning. More recently, I have suggested
      how I see this demand being met, in each successive layer, and most
      successfully (as above noted) in Layer 3 and subsequent."

      Dennis replies: That is an interesting way to look at it. Wouldn't another way of stating that be, "Why would a human being have different emotions at different times?" Whether 'tis the author of Mark or the character of Jesus, I find not "problem of Mark" that requires an interpolation explanation, especially if the hero of the story is caught between (supernatural) destiny and fate. Looking for a perfectly consistent Jesus within the gospels is one of the major flaws I have seen in modern scholarship that I have read. Humans aren't consistent in their emotions and neither are characters, even heroes of stories nor their authors.

      Anyway, it sounds like a faxcinating way to look at that gospel. Can't wait to read the findings.

      Dennis Dean Carpenter
      Dahlonega, Ga.

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    • E Bruce Brooks
      Tony, Thanks much; that does help. But let me see if I am reading you right. You have Supervisory responsibilities for all 10 churches in your circuit. You
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 17, 2009
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        Tony,

        Thanks much; that does help. But let me see if I am reading you right. You
        have Supervisory responsibilities for all 10 churches in your circuit. You
        also have Pastoral responsibilities for 5 of the churches. So all the
        regular preaching in those 5 churches is done by you. Do I correctly infer
        that in the other 5 churches, there are "local ministers" who do some of the
        preaching, but that you occasionally preach there also? And do you exert any
        supervision over the preaching that the local ministers do?

        Sorry to be slow, but the information is appreciated.

        Bruce

        E Bruce Brooks
        Warring States Project
        University of Massachusetts at Amherst
      • Tony Buglass
        I don t have to preach in all 5 churches every week - that would get a bit silly! We have local preachers - lay preachers - who take services. They are very
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 17, 2009
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          I don't have to preach in all 5 churches every week - that would get a bit silly! We have local preachers - lay preachers - who take services. They are very important members of the circuit team, we couldn't function without them. They are trained and accredited by the church, and answerable to the circuit through the Local Preachers' Meeting. As superintendent, I organise the preaching rota for all the churches on a quarterly plan - churches and preachers give me their requests and availability for the period in question, and I put them together. I don't tell the preachers what to preach, they are free to select their own subject, follow the lectionary or not.

          Hope that helps,
          Cheers,
          Rev Tony Buglass
          Superintendent Minister
          Upper Calder Methodist Circuit

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        • Dennis Dean Carpenter
          To say that Josephus was dependent on Mark would require some explanation. Josephus writes at length about the religious sects of Palestine. Unless one wants
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 18, 2009
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            To say that Josephus was dependent on Mark would require some explanation. Josephus writes at length about the religious sects of Palestine. Unless one wants to speculate that the Essenes were the prototypical Christianity, we find nothing but a highly, if not completely, interpolated statement about a Jesus and a mention of the brother of Jesus. That's it.

            But, you are correct about another prototype for Josephus. Jesus son of Ananias probably had roots, according to Ted Weeden Sr, in Jeremiah, which was a huge influence on Josephus. (He considered himself a "modern day Jeremiah," it seems. The evidence is found in Wars of the Jews and in Life.) One also finds a deep connection between the gospeleers and Jeremiah. (Mark's inspiration for the narrative of the cleansing of the temple came from Jeremiah, for instance.)

            Dennis Dean Carpenter
            Dahlonega, Ga.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Tony Buglass
            To: Synoptic@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 10:30 AM
            Subject: Re: [Synoptic-L] On The Earliest Markan Narrative


            Dennis: "This wouls suggest that portions of the Passion story were influenced by Josephus, placing a date of closer to 80 for this tale. "

            Alternatively, it might suggest that Josephus is dependent on Mark. Or that both are dependent upon another prototype. Surely any such hypothesis has to be finessed in the light of other evidence.

            Cheers,
            Rev Tony Buglass
            Superintendent Minister
            Upper Calder Methodist Circuit.

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