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Re: [Synoptic-L] Alternating Primitivity (#7-8)

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  • Dennis Dean Carpenter
    ...To answer your questions more directly, I would be amazed if a typical Gentile audience in Luke s time would have been familiar with Isaiah 34, and
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 24 3:59 PM
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      "...To answer your questions more directly, I would be amazed if a typical
      Gentile audience in Luke's time would have been familiar with Isaiah 34, and
      moderately surprised if they were familiar with Isaiah 61 (it was surely
      Luke's quotation in Lk 4:18-19 which led to these OT verses becoming
      well-known outside Judaism)
      Ron Price"


      I wasn't aware that the only Lukan allusion to the Hebrew scriptures was Isaiah 61. There is really no evidence that a Lukan audience wouldn't have been familiar with Mark and its approximately 160 allusions to the scriptures, or Matthew and its allusions. If, as many now see, Luke/Acts were second century compositions, it puts these two writings preluding the Apologist Church Fathers who certainly drew from the Hebrew scriptures. In fact, is there not a continuous line from Mark through the second century where these were used in Christian writings? Another thought might be that we see in the opening by Luke a writing that, like the opening Josephus had in "The Antiquities of the Jews," implies that the writing was written for a literate audience:

      Josephus: "Those who undertake to write histories do not, I perceive, take that gtrouble on one and the same account but for many reasons, and those such as are very different from one another...
      Luke: "Since many have undertaken to set down an orderly account of the events that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed onto us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses...."

      I would think that a literate reader of Luke (would there be any other?), would also be familiar with the passages, especially in the prophets, that applied to the Jewish Jesus. Is there a reason not to come to this conclusion? (I am aware of the studies reporting on the literacy rates, but that is not at issue if the writing was for the literate, as for instance "Antiquities" was.

      Dennis Dean Carpenter
      Dahlonega, Ga.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ron Price
      ... Nor was I. Where did you get that from? By these OT verses I was clearly referring to Is 61:1-2, quoted by Luke, to which you had drawn my attention. ...
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 25 11:21 AM
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        I had written:

        > "... I would be amazed if a typical
        > Gentile audience in Luke's time would have been familiar with Isaiah 34, and
        > moderately surprised if they were familiar with Isaiah 61 (it was surely
        > Luke's quotation in Lk 4:18-19 which led to these OT verses becoming
        > well-known outside Judaism)

        Dennis Carpenter replied:

        > I wasn't aware that the only Lukan allusion to the Hebrew scriptures was
        > Isaiah 61.

        Nor was I. Where did you get that from? By "these OT verses" I was clearly
        referring to Is 61:1-2, quoted by Luke, to which you had drawn my attention.

        > There is really no evidence that a Lukan audience wouldn't have
        > been familiar with Mark and its approximately 160 allusions to the scriptures,
        > or Matthew and its allusions.

        Perhaps we're getting nearer to the crux. As it happens I agree that Mark
        and Matthew would have been widely known in Christian circles by the time
        Luke was 'published'. Each major church would probably have acquired at
        least one copy of each of the earlier gospels. Thus the typical Gentile
        Lukan audience would have been to some extent familiar with the scriptural
        references in Mark and Matthew. But not necessarily with the significance of
        any subtle allusions they may have made. Anyway, they didn't mention ravens.

        > I would think that a literate reader of Luke (would there be any other?),

        Strictly, no. But I referred to Luke's "audience". Surely extracts from Luke
        would have been read in church, and the audience in those days would have
        been mainly illiterate.

        > I am aware of the studies reporting on the literacy rates, but that is not at
        > issue if the writing was for the literate, as for instance "Antiquities" was.

        You appear to be assuming that most literate people in the Greek world would
        have been familiar with the Jewish scriptures. This seems to me somewhat
        doubtful.

        Ron Price

        Derbyshire, UK

        Web site: http://homepage.virgin.net/ron.price/index.htm
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