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Simultaneous move AND combat resolution in one Stage?

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  • aka_tom_w
    OK Sorry to interupt the TOTAL quiet in the forum BUT here is ANOTHER whacky idea. I have just received the Attack! and Attack Expansion games for Christmas
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 2, 2004
      OK

      Sorry to interupt the TOTAL quiet in the forum BUT

      here is ANOTHER whacky idea.

      I have just received the Attack! and Attack Expansion
      games for Christmas
      (they are most simple and have some interesting rules)

      One rule that gets me thinking is how they handle
      movement and combat.

      in Attack you MUST move to initiate combat and a battle
      so in that game the "action" is called MOVE and what
      they call Strategic Move is what is known in Supremacy
      as Move Reinforcements (in Attack Strategic move is
      a totall different "action" and you can ONLY strat move
      to a zone you occupy END OF STORY)

      So my crazy idea for Mega Supremacy would be make
      the Move stage (where you can move to unoccupied
      light blue seas LBS's) a stage where all you participate
      do so Simultaneously. Like Simultaneous builds, in
      the Simultaneous move stage all players secretly write
      down all moves and then everyone moves together and
      where ever there are two players in the same zone
      (land or sea) the units in that zone (units in the ZONE
      only) must fight to the death until only one player owns
      the zone. This is a "Meeting Engagement " form of
      combat there would be no move reinforcements phase
      as the units just "bumped" into each other.

      This was intended to be combined with a rule that
      says No Airbourne Attacks and no Amphib Assaults
      on the FIRST attack phase of the Mega Supremacy game.


      The idea was to "get around" the issue of who moves
      first OR who attacks first GETS all the vital strategic
      unoccupied LBS's

      I am also considering idea;s for Simultaneous attacks
      but right now that all seems too complicated and not
      really doable because the Conventional battle drill is too
      "structured" to allow for everyone to engage in battles
      all at the same time I think?? dunno?

      I would like to think there might be a way to allow
      Simultaneous attacks in the attack stage but from
      here I can't see it.

      so for my whacky new idea for Simultaneous
      move and "instant" combat resolution, I think it
      would add some terror and thrills to the move
      stage because everyone would write down
      what units they are sending where and then
      see who else shows up! :) then you would
      have to spend a set of resource to do
      battle until only one player's units remain
      or one player surrenders or withdraws.
      In this case a "Move" could NOT be an
      Amphib Assault or Air Drop because those
      are "attacks" designed to Attack an occupied
      zone. This Move is just brief Meeting Engagement
      where two player's units "bump" into each othe
      and must duke it out to keep the zone.

      your comments?

      suggestions?

      loopholes?

      gamey exploits?

      -tom w
    • aka_tom_w
      Doh! Obvious loophole! what if more than two players end up in the same zone? Three players could not really have a fight to the death? (unless one player gets
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 2, 2004
        Doh!

        Obvious loophole!

        what if more than two players end up in the
        same zone?
        Three players could not really have a fight to the
        death? (unless one player gets a "bye" in the
        first round ;) )
        perhaps the player who traveled the least,
        spent the least oil to get there, should get
        the first round "bye" and then battle the
        winner of round one in combat round two.

        OR even easier only the first two players
        to get there are in the battle, the player that
        came from the farthest, i.e. spend the MOST
        oil to get there DOESN'T move and must
        stay home or must move into and stop at the
        nearest empty zone because the zone he
        wanted already has two combatants in it........

        OK ok

        now this idea is TOTALLY getting out of hand

        I was just thinking (whacky thinking) out loud.....

        sorry

        -tom w

        --- In Supremacy@yahoogroups.com, "aka_tom_w" <tcw@m...> wrote:
        > OK
        >
        > Sorry to interupt the TOTAL quiet in the forum BUT
        >
        > here is ANOTHER whacky idea.
        >
        > I have just received the Attack! and Attack Expansion
        > games for Christmas
        > (they are most simple and have some interesting rules)
        >
        > One rule that gets me thinking is how they handle
        > movement and combat.
        >
        > in Attack you MUST move to initiate combat and a battle
        > so in that game the "action" is called MOVE and what
        > they call Strategic Move is what is known in Supremacy
        > as Move Reinforcements (in Attack Strategic move is
        > a totall different "action" and you can ONLY strat move
        > to a zone you occupy END OF STORY)
        >
        > So my crazy idea for Mega Supremacy would be make
        > the Move stage (where you can move to unoccupied
        > light blue seas LBS's) a stage where all you participate
        > do so Simultaneously. Like Simultaneous builds, in
        > the Simultaneous move stage all players secretly write
        > down all moves and then everyone moves together and
        > where ever there are two players in the same zone
        > (land or sea) the units in that zone (units in the ZONE
        > only) must fight to the death until only one player owns
        > the zone. This is a "Meeting Engagement " form of
        > combat there would be no move reinforcements phase
        > as the units just "bumped" into each other.
        >
        > This was intended to be combined with a rule that
        > says No Airbourne Attacks and no Amphib Assaults
        > on the FIRST attack phase of the Mega Supremacy game.
        >
        >
        > The idea was to "get around" the issue of who moves
        > first OR who attacks first GETS all the vital strategic
        > unoccupied LBS's
        >
        > I am also considering idea;s for Simultaneous attacks
        > but right now that all seems too complicated and not
        > really doable because the Conventional battle drill is too
        > "structured" to allow for everyone to engage in battles
        > all at the same time I think?? dunno?
        >
        > I would like to think there might be a way to allow
        > Simultaneous attacks in the attack stage but from
        > here I can't see it.
        >
        > so for my whacky new idea for Simultaneous
        > move and "instant" combat resolution, I think it
        > would add some terror and thrills to the move
        > stage because everyone would write down
        > what units they are sending where and then
        > see who else shows up! :) then you would
        > have to spend a set of resource to do
        > battle until only one player's units remain
        > or one player surrenders or withdraws.
        > In this case a "Move" could NOT be an
        > Amphib Assault or Air Drop because those
        > are "attacks" designed to Attack an occupied
        > zone. This Move is just brief Meeting Engagement
        > where two player's units "bump" into each othe
        > and must duke it out to keep the zone.
        >
        > your comments?
        >
        > suggestions?
        >
        > loopholes?
        >
        > gamey exploits?
        >
        > -tom w
      • water_k
        In the online supremacy I have played for some months, the Move and Attack stage are combined into one only. In this stage you can either attack or move. If
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 2, 2004
          In the online supremacy I have played for some months, the Move and Attack
          stage are combined into one only. In this stage you can either attack or
          move. If you attack a neutral territory, you can't reinforce. And the
          reinforcements are only one per attack, if you attack another superpower.

          In the traditional game, one of this ideas could be used to reduce the effect
          of a player attacking a neutral territory only to get all the available LBS's. It
          could be that attacking a neutral territory doesn't allow reinforcements, or at
          least that there's only 1 reinforcement per attack.

          In the online game, if you have armies *and* navies tech 2 you can attack
          twice before you make your reinforcement. If you have armies *and* navies
          tech 3 you can attack 3 times and so goes on. It's a nice idea too, if you are
          using conventional techs in your game.

          []s

          Robson.
        • aka_tom_w
          See your point But we have made the Move Reinforcements rules state that you can ONLY move into a zone you occupy so the cheesy attack and move reinforcements
          Message 4 of 4 , Jan 2, 2004
            See your point

            But we have made the Move Reinforcements
            rules state that you can ONLY move into a
            zone you occupy so the cheesy attack and move
            reinforcements first in all the LSB's is NOT a problem.
            (this was circumvented in our most recent game by
            an amphib assault on the first move of the first attack
            stage into a vacant LSB JUST to gain
            the LSB in the attack stage BEFORE move)

            So then in our games the player who Moves FIRST
            gets to move into ONE LSB then the next player
            get to move into one zone.

            When players are allowed to reinforce into unoccupied
            zones the Defender (the victim of the first attack) actually
            gets the FIRST opportunity to move reinforcements and
            he can move AS MANY units as he can afford to as many vacant
            LSB's as he has oil to move to. This to my mind (as I have said
            before) is clearly a gapping loophole in the rules because if
            you move in the move stage you can only grab ONE LSB as
            each player moves to ONE zone only on each phase on their
            turn in the Move Stage so the vacant LSB's get shared around.

            BUT if players are allowed to reinforce in to vacant LSB's there
            is NO limit during move reinforcements as to how many of them
            the attacker or defender can grab in the FIRST attack stage.

            clearly this is an issue I was trying to address with the
            simultanneous (blind) move and "meeting engagement" combat
            resolution proposal.

            thanks

            interesting comments!

            -tom w

            --- In Supremacy@yahoogroups.com, "water_k" <water.k@z...> wrote:
            > In the online supremacy I have played for some months, the Move and Attack
            > stage are combined into one only. In this stage you can either attack or
            > move. If you attack a neutral territory, you can't reinforce. And the
            > reinforcements are only one per attack, if you attack another superpower.
            >
            > In the traditional game, one of this ideas could be used to reduce the effect
            > of a player attacking a neutral territory only to get all the available LBS's. It
            > could be that attacking a neutral territory doesn't allow reinforcements, or at
            > least that there's only 1 reinforcement per attack.

            No, the simple and sensible answer to that is you can ONLY move
            reinforcements to a zone you occupy (END OF STORY loophole closed!)
            As in Actually "reinforce" an existing unit in combat.

            >
            > In the online game, if you have armies *and* navies tech 2 you can attack
            > twice before you make your reinforcement. If you have armies *and* navies
            > tech 3 you can attack 3 times and so goes on. It's a nice idea too, if you are
            > using conventional techs in your game.
            >
            > []s
            >
            > Robson.
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