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Sun Tzu and the philosophy behind Wudang Weng Shun Kuen

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  • Rien Bul
    Sun Tzu and the philosophy behind Wudang Weng Shun Kuen by Grandmaster Rien Bul ‘Kindness of the type of the earl Xianggong of song’ from: ‘the Han Fei
    Message 1 of 2 , Feb 21, 2005

      Sun Tzu and the philosophy behind Wudang Weng Shun Kuen

      by  Grandmaster Rien Bul

      ‘Kindness of the type of the earl Xianggong of song’ from: ‘the Han Fei Zi’

      It happened in ‘spring - and autumn period’, more than twentyfive-hundred years ago. By attacking the state of Zheng, earl Xianggong of the state of Song came to meet the army of the state Chu, because its troops had come to aid Zheng. This happened at the river HongShui. The army of song had already established themselves in battle formation at the riverbank, while Chu's troops were still wading through the river. “The army of Chu has much more troops than ours,” said Zi Yu, one of earl Xianggong's officers. “We will undoubtedly gain victory if we attack them while they are still wading through the river.” Hearing this the earl shook his head and replied “Why so much haste? I have been taught it is immoral to attack someone while he's exepriencing difficulties.”, the officer insisted.
      “I beg your highness to reconsider my proposal. If we allow the Chu troops to get in formation before attacking them we will miss a unique opportunity. Please, reconsider quickly, in the interest of our people, instead of in the interest of morality.” The earl found officer Zi Yu's words very offending and without respect towards him and he disciplined him with the words: “Get out of my sight! Shut up or I will court-martial you!” The officer had to no other choice than to leave quietly. During the conversation the troops of Chu had established a firm position on the riverbank. Just then gave to the earl Xianggong of song the command to attack. It became a bloody fight in which Song's suffered massive defeat. The earl of Song himself got hit in the right leg by a razor-sharp arrow that incurred a very serious wound. The wound got infected and three days later earl Xianggong died.

      Of course officer Zi Yu was right, and the earl should have put into practice the following principle as stated in General Sun Tzu's treatise on strategy, ‘The Art of War’; “When an opposing army is crossing a river, don't meet it before it is halfway through. It is to your advantage to let them cross the river halfway and strike then.”

      As Miyamoto Musashi states in his ‘Book of Five Rings’, every principle that is useful in a fight between two armies is also just as useful in a fight between two men, and vice versa. In Wudang Weng Shun Kuen we encounter Sun Tzu's recommendation in the form of the widely-acclaimed ‘man sao’. The man sao does not attack the attacker before he can attack. No, the attack himself is attacked in the middle of the process and made short work of. In other words: When the attack in full pace is she is attacked and is destroyed! This is the same process that is recommended Sun Tzu above.It is a near certainty that at least one of Wudang Weng Shun Kuen's originators was aqquianted with the teachings of Master Sun. This becomes very clear when one reads his widely acclaimed ‘Art of War’.1)*

      Correct application of the man sao and associated foot work makes the situation more complex for the antagonist, as a result of which the time seems to go too fast for him to still be able to oversee the situation. At the same time it has the effect that it makes the fight more comprehensive for the Wudang Weng Shun Kuen practitioner, who seems to gain more time to use to his advantage. This is what we call ‘controlling time’.

      Niccolo Machiavelli would have pointed out that it was misguided ‘morality’ that defeated the Song army. According to him, and to Clausewitz and Nietzsche after that, the ‘the end justifies the means’.2)* Perhaps this sounds fascist (and it is), but it is, at the same time, also just realistic thinking. Daoism teaches that one should see everything as it is, and not have conceptions of reality that are more often wrong than right. One should live according to what really is, experience ‘truth’ directly.

      Notes:
      1)* Fong Shil Ching (Fung Siu Ching), a military ‘Marshall’, was probably wel-aqquainted with ‘the Art of War’. In our family tree he is mentioned as the first person to inherit Weng Shun Kuen while not living aboard a red opera junk. According to some sources Fong was responsible for adding aspects of Tai Ji Quan to Weng Shun Kuen. I.m.h.o. this is highly unlikely. At that point in time, what had yet to become Tai Ji Quan was still a highly secretive family style. It is more probable that Tai Ji Quan and Weng Shun Kuen have several traits in common because both are of Daoist descend and originate from the same source, Wudang.

      2)* It's no coincidence that the German word ‘Realismus’ (realism) was invented by none other than Friedrich Nietzsche. He considered his jewish friend Paul Re an extremely intelligent and pragmatic man and named the word after him as praise of the man's ability to see things as they were.


       
    • BUGS
      Nice to hear from u guys. Keep it up Tnx BUGS _____ From: Rien Bul [mailto:wengshunkuen@quicknet.nl] Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 19:34 To:
      Message 2 of 2 , Feb 25, 2005

        Nice to hear from u guys…

        Keep it up

         

        Tnx

        BUGS

         


        From: Rien Bul [mailto:wengshunkuen@...]
        Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 19:34
        To: Sun_Tzu@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Sun_Tzu] Sun Tzu and the philosophy behind Wudang Weng Shun Kuen

         

        Sun Tzu and the philosophy behind Wudang Weng Shun Kuen

        by  Grandmaster Rien Bul

        ‘Kindness of the type of the earl Xianggong of song’ from: ‘the Han Fei Zi’

        It happened in ‘spring - and autumn period’, more than twentyfive-hundred years ago. By attacking the state of Zheng, earl Xianggong of the state of Song came to meet the army of the state Chu , because its troops had come to aid Zheng. This happened at the river HongShui. The army of song had already established themselves in battle formation at the riverbank, while Chu 's troops were still wading through the river. “The army of Chu has much more troops than ours,” said Zi Yu, one of earl Xianggong's officers. “We will undoubtedly gain victory if we attack them while they are still wading through the river.” Hearing this the earl shook his head and replied “Why so much haste? I have been taught it is immoral to attack someone while he's exepriencing difficulties.”, the officer insisted.
        “I beg your highness to reconsider my proposal. If we allow the Chu troops to get in formation before attacking them we will miss a unique opportunity. Please, reconsider quickly, in the interest of our people, instead of in the interest of morality.” The earl found officer Zi Yu's words very offending and without respect towards him and he disciplined him with the words: “Get out of my sight! Shut up or I will court-martial you!” The officer had to no other choice than to leave quietly. During the conversation the troops of Chu had established a firm position on the riverbank. Just then gave to the earl Xianggong of song the command to attack. It became a bloody fight in which Song's suffered massive defeat. The earl of Song himself got hit in the right leg by a razor-sharp arrow that incurred a very serious wound. The wound got infected and three days later earl Xianggong died.

        Of course officer Zi Yu was right, and the earl should have put into practice the following principle as stated in General Sun Tzu's treatise on strategy, ‘The Art of War’; “When an opposing army is crossing a river, don't meet it before it is halfway through. It is to your advantage to let them cross the river halfway and strike then.”

        As Miyamoto Musashi states in his ‘Book of Five Rings’, every principle that is useful in a fight between two armies is also just as useful in a fight between two men, and vice versa. In Wudang Weng Shun Kuen we encounter Sun Tzu's recommendation in the form of the widely-acclaimed ‘man sao’. The man sao does not attack the attacker before he can attack. No, the attack himself is attacked in the middle of the process and made short work of. In other words: When the attack in full pace is she is attacked and is destroyed! This is the same process that is recommended Sun Tzu above.It is a near certainty that at least one of Wudang Weng Shun Kuen's originators was aqquianted with the teachings of Master Sun. This becomes very clear when one reads his widely acclaimed ‘Art of War’.1)*

        Correct application of the man sao and associated foot work makes the situation more complex for the antagonist, as a result of which the time seems to go too fast for him to still be able to oversee the situation. At the same time it has the effect that it makes the fight more comprehensive for the Wudang Weng Shun Kuen practitioner, who seems to gain more time to use to his advantage. This is what we call ‘controlling time’.

        Niccolo Machiavelli would have pointed out that it was misguided ‘morality’ that defeated the Song army. According to him, and to Clausewitz and Nietzsche after that, the ‘the end justifies the means’.2)* Perhaps this sounds fascist (and it is), but it is, at the same time, also just realistic thinking. Daoism teaches that one should see everything as it is, and not have conceptions of reality that are more often wrong than right. One should live according to what really is, experience ‘truth’ directly.

        Notes:
        1)* Fong Shil Ching (Fung Siu Ching), a military ‘ Marshall ’, was probably wel-aqquainted with ‘the Art of War’. In our family tree he is mentioned as the first person to inherit Weng Shun Kuen while not living aboard a red opera junk. According to some sources Fong was responsible for adding aspects of Tai Ji Quan to Weng Shun Kuen. I.m.h.o. this is highly unlikely. At that point in time, what had yet to become Tai Ji Quan was still a highly secretive family style. It is more probable that Tai Ji Quan and Weng Shun Kuen have several traits in common because both are of Daoist descend and originate from the same source, Wudang.

        2)* It's no coincidence that the German word ‘Realismus’ (realism) was invented by none other than Friedrich Nietzsche. He considered his jewish friend Paul Re an extremely intelligent and pragmatic man and named the word after him as praise of the man's ability to see things as they were.


         



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