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Re: [SubEthaEdit] Re: Requiring files to end with a newline

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  • Alexander Henket
    Your requirement is not something that is intrinsic to any language or standard, but just something you want done. As such I would not expect any editor at all
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 10, 2008
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      Your requirement is not something that is intrinsic to any language or standard, but just something you want done. As such I would not expect any editor at all to support that. To me this is like requiring to have two open lines between "Dear sirs," and the rest of the letter. It is not something you would expect an editor to enforce, it is a procedural thing for the user.

      Maybe you could make it a folder action with AppleScript and the sed command? I would not know if folder actions could work upon save, but if so it might be an option. It would even work beyond SubEthaEdit in that case.

      Regards,

      Alexander

      Op 10 jan 2008, om 09:05 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:

      OK, I'll bite: how do you enforce it? The mechanics of adding a line feed are not a 
      challenge. Invoking it automatically on every save - and preferably in a mode dependent 
      fashion - is the hard part.

      I'll take it that SubEthaEdit cannot do this. I quite disagree with your expectation, though: 
      I'd definitely expect this to be handled by an editor that works in a Unix environment, 
      seeing as several command line tools treat the line feed as line terminators, not line 
      separators. 

      --- In SubEthaEdit@ yahoogroups. com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@... > wrote:
      >
      > 
      > That sounds like a content requirement that I would not expect 
      > SubEthaEdit itself to handle. However with the aforementioned sed 
      > option or any other third party solution, you could still enforce it.
      > 
      > Alexander Henket
      > 
      > Op 9 jan 2008, om 10:09 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:
      > 
      > > I believe you have misread me. In the Format menu, you can set the 
      > > line endings to be
      > > carriage returns, line feeds, or both. However, the file itself 
      > > should end with a line feed,
      > > which is not enforced by setting "Use Unix/Mac OS X Line Endings 
      > > (LF)". I'm looking for a
      > > way to require that.
      > >
      > > --- In SubEthaEdit@ yahoogroups. com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@> 
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Under the Format menu you will find what you are looking for on per
      > > > document basis. In the Preferences you can set it for all new 
      > > documents.
      > > >
      > > > Regards
      > > >
      > > > Alexander Henket
      > > >
      > > > Op 7 jan 2008, om 18:51 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende 
      > > geschreven:
      > > >
      > > > > Standard convention for Unix files is that they should end with a
      > > > > newline. Is there any
      > > > > combination of settings that will get SubEthaEdit to do this?
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >


    • michael_j_barber
      Ah, but it is intrinsic to languages and standards! Most relevant here is that POSIX defines a text file as being terminated with a newline. Various programs
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 10, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Ah, but it is intrinsic to languages and standards! Most relevant here is that POSIX defines
        a text file as being terminated with a newline. Various programs do make the assumption
        that they're working on text files that meet the definition, although most do cleanly handle
        files where the final newline is missing. Quite a few editors can enforce the condition; off
        the top of my head, vi, emacs, Eclipse, Alpha, Smultron.

        It's not just a personal preference. Quite the contrary - I'd prefer if all the tools I used
        were indifferent to whether there was a newline at end of file.

        Your suggested workaround is interesting, but doesn't sound very practical - attaching
        folder actions everywhere it might be needed sounds like it would only work on a rather
        small scale. I can think of a couple of other external approaches as well, none wholly
        satisfactory (e.g., a stay-open AppleScript that periodically checks each open SEE
        document, wrapping version control check-in to add a missing final newline,...).

        At any rate, I've filed a feature request through the Coding Monkeys' bug tracker.

        --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Your requirement is not something that is intrinsic to any language or
        > standard, but just something you want done. As such I would not expect
        > any editor at all to support that. To me this is like requiring to
        > have two open lines between "Dear sirs," and the rest of the letter.
        > It is not something you would expect an editor to enforce, it is a
        > procedural thing for the user.
        >
        > Maybe you could make it a folder action with AppleScript and the sed
        > command? I would not know if folder actions could work upon save, but
        > if so it might be an option. It would even work beyond SubEthaEdit in
        > that case.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Alexander
        >
        > Op 10 jan 2008, om 09:05 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:
        >
        > > OK, I'll bite: how do you enforce it? The mechanics of adding a line
        > > feed are not a
        > > challenge. Invoking it automatically on every save - and preferably
        > > in a mode dependent
        > > fashion - is the hard part.
        > >
        > > I'll take it that SubEthaEdit cannot do this. I quite disagree with
        > > your expectation, though:
        > > I'd definitely expect this to be handled by an editor that works in
        > > a Unix environment,
        > > seeing as several command line tools treat the line feed as line
        > > terminators, not line
        > > separators.
        > >
        > > --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > That sounds like a content requirement that I would not expect
        > > > SubEthaEdit itself to handle. However with the aforementioned sed
        > > > option or any other third party solution, you could still enforce
        > > it.
        > > >
        > > > Alexander Henket
        > > >
        > > > Op 9 jan 2008, om 10:09 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende
        > > geschreven:
        > > >
        > > > > I believe you have misread me. In the Format menu, you can set the
        > > > > line endings to be
        > > > > carriage returns, line feeds, or both. However, the file itself
        > > > > should end with a line feed,
        > > > > which is not enforced by setting "Use Unix/Mac OS X Line Endings
        > > > > (LF)". I'm looking for a
        > > > > way to require that.
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@>
        > > > > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Under the Format menu you will find what you are looking for
        > > on per
        > > > > > document basis. In the Preferences you can set it for all new
        > > > > documents.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Regards
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Alexander Henket
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Op 7 jan 2008, om 18:51 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende
        > > > > geschreven:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > Standard convention for Unix files is that they should end
        > > with a
        > > > > > > newline. Is there any
        > > > > > > combination of settings that will get SubEthaEdit to do this?
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Alexander Henket
        I did not know about the Posix requirement. It sounds like silly requirement, but if it is a standard, than so be it. A lot of great minds thought about Posix,
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 10, 2008
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          I did not know about the Posix requirement. It sounds like silly requirement, but if it is a standard, than so be it. A lot of great minds thought about Posix, so who am I to judge that.

          I hope for your sake the feature request will be taken into account.

          Regards,

          Alexander Henket


          Op 10 jan 2008, om 17:37 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:

          Ah, but it is intrinsic to languages and standards! Most relevant here is that POSIX defines 
          a text file as being terminated with a newline. Various programs do make the assumption 
          that they're working on text files that meet the definition, although most do cleanly handle 
          files where the final newline is missing. Quite a few editors can enforce the condition; off 
          the top of my head, vi, emacs, Eclipse, Alpha, Smultron. 

          It's not just a personal preference. Quite the contrary - I'd prefer if all the tools I used 
          were indifferent to whether there was a newline at end of file.

          Your suggested workaround is interesting, but doesn't sound very practical - attaching
          folder actions everywhere it might be needed sounds like it would only work on a rather 
          small scale. I can think of a couple of other external approaches as well, none wholly 
          satisfactory (e.g., a stay-open AppleScript that periodically checks each open SEE 
          document, wrapping version control check-in to add a missing final newline,...) . 

          At any rate, I've filed a feature request through the Coding Monkeys' bug tracker. 

          --- In SubEthaEdit@ yahoogroups. com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@... > wrote:
          >
          > 
          > Your requirement is not something that is intrinsic to any language or 
          > standard, but just something you want done. As such I would not expect 
          > any editor at all to support that. To me this is like requiring to 
          > have two open lines between "Dear sirs," and the rest of the letter. 
          > It is not something you would expect an editor to enforce, it is a 
          > procedural thing for the user.
          > 
          > Maybe you could make it a folder action with AppleScript and the sed 
          > command? I would not know if folder actions could work upon save, but 
          > if so it might be an option. It would even work beyond SubEthaEdit in 
          > that case.
          > 
          > Regards,
          > 
          > Alexander
          > 
          > Op 10 jan 2008, om 09:05 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:
          > 
          > > OK, I'll bite: how do you enforce it? The mechanics of adding a line 
          > > feed are not a
          > > challenge. Invoking it automatically on every save - and preferably 
          > > in a mode dependent
          > > fashion - is the hard part.
          > >
          > > I'll take it that SubEthaEdit cannot do this. I quite disagree with 
          > > your expectation, though:
          > > I'd definitely expect this to be handled by an editor that works in 
          > > a Unix environment,
          > > seeing as several command line tools treat the line feed as line 
          > > terminators, not line
          > > separators.
          > >
          > > --- In SubEthaEdit@ yahoogroups. com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@> 
          > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > That sounds like a content requirement that I would not expect
          > > > SubEthaEdit itself to handle. However with the aforementioned sed
          > > > option or any other third party solution, you could still enforce 
          > > it.
          > > >
          > > > Alexander Henket
          > > >
          > > > Op 9 jan 2008, om 10:09 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende 
          > > geschreven:
          > > >
          > > > > I believe you have misread me. In the Format menu, you can set the
          > > > > line endings to be
          > > > > carriage returns, line feeds, or both. However, the file itself
          > > > > should end with a line feed,
          > > > > which is not enforced by setting "Use Unix/Mac OS X Line Endings
          > > > > (LF)". I'm looking for a
          > > > > way to require that.
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In SubEthaEdit@ yahoogroups. com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@>
          > > > > wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Under the Format menu you will find what you are looking for 
          > > on per
          > > > > > document basis. In the Preferences you can set it for all new
          > > > > documents.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Regards
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Alexander Henket
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Op 7 jan 2008, om 18:51 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende
          > > > > geschreven:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > > Standard convention for Unix files is that they should end 
          > > with a
          > > > > > > newline. Is there any
          > > > > > > combination of settings that will get SubEthaEdit to do this?
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >


        • michael_j_barber
          POSIX does contain a fair share of silliness - there s a lot of history driving it, too. It s not strictly a requirement, though, but rather a definition.
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 10, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            POSIX does contain a fair share of silliness - there's a lot of history driving it, too. It's not
            strictly a requirement, though, but rather a definition. Nothing prevents programs from
            handling both text-files-per-definition and text-files-but-for-the-final-newline, and
            most do handle both. It can be a real puzzle when you run into one that doesn't, though!

            --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > I did not know about the Posix requirement. It sounds like silly
            > requirement, but if it is a standard, than so be it. A lot of great
            > minds thought about Posix, so who am I to judge that.
            >
            > I hope for your sake the feature request will be taken into account.
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Alexander Henket
            >
            >
            > Op 10 jan 2008, om 17:37 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:
            >
            > > Ah, but it is intrinsic to languages and standards! Most relevant
            > > here is that POSIX defines
            > > a text file as being terminated with a newline. Various programs do
            > > make the assumption
            > > that they're working on text files that meet the definition,
            > > although most do cleanly handle
            > > files where the final newline is missing. Quite a few editors can
            > > enforce the condition; off
            > > the top of my head, vi, emacs, Eclipse, Alpha, Smultron.
            > >
            > > It's not just a personal preference. Quite the contrary - I'd prefer
            > > if all the tools I used
            > > were indifferent to whether there was a newline at end of file.
            > >
            > > Your suggested workaround is interesting, but doesn't sound very
            > > practical - attaching
            > > folder actions everywhere it might be needed sounds like it would
            > > only work on a rather
            > > small scale. I can think of a couple of other external approaches as
            > > well, none wholly
            > > satisfactory (e.g., a stay-open AppleScript that periodically checks
            > > each open SEE
            > > document, wrapping version control check-in to add a missing final
            > > newline,...).
            > >
            > > At any rate, I've filed a feature request through the Coding
            > > Monkeys' bug tracker.
            > >
            > > --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Your requirement is not something that is intrinsic to any
            > > language or
            > > > standard, but just something you want done. As such I would not
            > > expect
            > > > any editor at all to support that. To me this is like requiring to
            > > > have two open lines between "Dear sirs," and the rest of the letter.
            > > > It is not something you would expect an editor to enforce, it is a
            > > > procedural thing for the user.
            > > >
            > > > Maybe you could make it a folder action with AppleScript and the sed
            > > > command? I would not know if folder actions could work upon save,
            > > but
            > > > if so it might be an option. It would even work beyond SubEthaEdit
            > > in
            > > > that case.
            > > >
            > > > Regards,
            > > >
            > > > Alexander
            > > >
            > > > Op 10 jan 2008, om 09:05 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende
            > > geschreven:
            > > >
            > > > > OK, I'll bite: how do you enforce it? The mechanics of adding a
            > > line
            > > > > feed are not a
            > > > > challenge. Invoking it automatically on every save - and
            > > preferably
            > > > > in a mode dependent
            > > > > fashion - is the hard part.
            > > > >
            > > > > I'll take it that SubEthaEdit cannot do this. I quite disagree
            > > with
            > > > > your expectation, though:
            > > > > I'd definitely expect this to be handled by an editor that works
            > > in
            > > > > a Unix environment,
            > > > > seeing as several command line tools treat the line feed as line
            > > > > terminators, not line
            > > > > separators.
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@>
            > > > > wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > That sounds like a content requirement that I would not expect
            > > > > > SubEthaEdit itself to handle. However with the aforementioned
            > > sed
            > > > > > option or any other third party solution, you could still
            > > enforce
            > > > > it.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Alexander Henket
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Op 9 jan 2008, om 10:09 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende
            > > > > geschreven:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > > I believe you have misread me. In the Format menu, you can
            > > set the
            > > > > > > line endings to be
            > > > > > > carriage returns, line feeds, or both. However, the file
            > > itself
            > > > > > > should end with a line feed,
            > > > > > > which is not enforced by setting "Use Unix/Mac OS X Line
            > > Endings
            > > > > > > (LF)". I'm looking for a
            > > > > > > way to require that.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket
            > > <ahenket@>
            > > > > > > wrote:
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Under the Format menu you will find what you are looking for
            > > > > on per
            > > > > > > > document basis. In the Preferences you can set it for all
            > > new
            > > > > > > documents.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Regards
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Alexander Henket
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Op 7 jan 2008, om 18:51 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende
            > > > > > > geschreven:
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > Standard convention for Unix files is that they should end
            > > > > with a
            > > > > > > > > newline. Is there any
            > > > > > > > > combination of settings that will get SubEthaEdit to do
            > > this?
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
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