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[SubEthaEdit] Re: Requiring files to end with a newline

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  • Cole Tierney
    ... If you can filter through sed somehow, then the following should guarantee that the file ends with a line feed: sed -e $s/ (.* )/ 1/ -- Cole
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 9, 2008
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      At 9:09 AM +0000 1/9/08, michael_j_barber wrote:
      >I believe you have misread me. In the Format menu, you can set the
      >line endings to be carriage returns, line feeds, or both. However,
      >the file itself should end with a line feed, which is not enforced
      >by setting "Use Unix/Mac OS X Line Endings (LF)". I'm looking for a
      >way to require that.

      If you can filter through sed somehow, then the following should
      guarantee that the file ends with a line feed:
      sed -e '$s/\(.*\)/\1/'

      --
      Cole
    • Alexander Henket
      That sounds like a content requirement that I would not expect SubEthaEdit itself to handle. However with the aforementioned sed option or any other third
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 9, 2008
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        That sounds like a content requirement that I would not expect SubEthaEdit itself to handle. However with the aforementioned sed option or any other third party solution, you could still enforce it.

        Alexander Henket

        Op 9 jan 2008, om 10:09 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:

        I believe you have misread me. In the Format menu, you can set the line endings to be 
        carriage returns, line feeds, or both. However, the file itself should end with a line feed, 
        which is not enforced by setting "Use Unix/Mac OS X Line Endings (LF)". I'm looking for a 
        way to require that.

        --- In SubEthaEdit@ yahoogroups. com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@... > wrote:
        >
        > 
        > Under the Format menu you will find what you are looking for on per 
        > document basis. In the Preferences you can set it for all new documents.
        > 
        > Regards
        > 
        > Alexander Henket
        > 
        > Op 7 jan 2008, om 18:51 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:
        > 
        > > Standard convention for Unix files is that they should end with a 
        > > newline. Is there any
        > > combination of settings that will get SubEthaEdit to do this?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >


      • michael_j_barber
        ... Sure, there are other ways, as well; that s not the hard part. It s the filter through ... somehow, as you note, that is the problem.
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 9, 2008
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          --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Cole Tierney <colet@...> wrote:
          >
          > At 9:09 AM +0000 1/9/08, michael_j_barber wrote:
          > >I believe you have misread me. In the Format menu, you can set the
          > >line endings to be carriage returns, line feeds, or both. However,
          > >the file itself should end with a line feed, which is not enforced
          > >by setting "Use Unix/Mac OS X Line Endings (LF)". I'm looking for a
          > >way to require that.
          >
          > If you can filter through sed somehow, then the following should
          > guarantee that the file ends with a line feed:
          > sed -e '$s/\(.*\)/\1/'
          >

          Sure, there are other ways, as well; that's not the hard part. It's the "filter through ...
          somehow," as you note, that is the problem.
        • michael_j_barber
          OK, I ll bite: how do you enforce it? The mechanics of adding a line feed are not a challenge. Invoking it automatically on every save - and preferably in a
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 10, 2008
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            OK, I'll bite: how do you enforce it? The mechanics of adding a line feed are not a
            challenge. Invoking it automatically on every save - and preferably in a mode dependent
            fashion - is the hard part.

            I'll take it that SubEthaEdit cannot do this. I quite disagree with your expectation, though:
            I'd definitely expect this to be handled by an editor that works in a Unix environment,
            seeing as several command line tools treat the line feed as line terminators, not line
            separators.

            --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > That sounds like a content requirement that I would not expect
            > SubEthaEdit itself to handle. However with the aforementioned sed
            > option or any other third party solution, you could still enforce it.
            >
            > Alexander Henket
            >
            > Op 9 jan 2008, om 10:09 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:
            >
            > > I believe you have misread me. In the Format menu, you can set the
            > > line endings to be
            > > carriage returns, line feeds, or both. However, the file itself
            > > should end with a line feed,
            > > which is not enforced by setting "Use Unix/Mac OS X Line Endings
            > > (LF)". I'm looking for a
            > > way to require that.
            > >
            > > --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Under the Format menu you will find what you are looking for on per
            > > > document basis. In the Preferences you can set it for all new
            > > documents.
            > > >
            > > > Regards
            > > >
            > > > Alexander Henket
            > > >
            > > > Op 7 jan 2008, om 18:51 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende
            > > geschreven:
            > > >
            > > > > Standard convention for Unix files is that they should end with a
            > > > > newline. Is there any
            > > > > combination of settings that will get SubEthaEdit to do this?
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Alexander Henket
            Your requirement is not something that is intrinsic to any language or standard, but just something you want done. As such I would not expect any editor at all
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 10, 2008
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              Your requirement is not something that is intrinsic to any language or standard, but just something you want done. As such I would not expect any editor at all to support that. To me this is like requiring to have two open lines between "Dear sirs," and the rest of the letter. It is not something you would expect an editor to enforce, it is a procedural thing for the user.

              Maybe you could make it a folder action with AppleScript and the sed command? I would not know if folder actions could work upon save, but if so it might be an option. It would even work beyond SubEthaEdit in that case.

              Regards,

              Alexander

              Op 10 jan 2008, om 09:05 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:

              OK, I'll bite: how do you enforce it? The mechanics of adding a line feed are not a 
              challenge. Invoking it automatically on every save - and preferably in a mode dependent 
              fashion - is the hard part.

              I'll take it that SubEthaEdit cannot do this. I quite disagree with your expectation, though: 
              I'd definitely expect this to be handled by an editor that works in a Unix environment, 
              seeing as several command line tools treat the line feed as line terminators, not line 
              separators. 

              --- In SubEthaEdit@ yahoogroups. com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@... > wrote:
              >
              > 
              > That sounds like a content requirement that I would not expect 
              > SubEthaEdit itself to handle. However with the aforementioned sed 
              > option or any other third party solution, you could still enforce it.
              > 
              > Alexander Henket
              > 
              > Op 9 jan 2008, om 10:09 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:
              > 
              > > I believe you have misread me. In the Format menu, you can set the 
              > > line endings to be
              > > carriage returns, line feeds, or both. However, the file itself 
              > > should end with a line feed,
              > > which is not enforced by setting "Use Unix/Mac OS X Line Endings 
              > > (LF)". I'm looking for a
              > > way to require that.
              > >
              > > --- In SubEthaEdit@ yahoogroups. com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@> 
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Under the Format menu you will find what you are looking for on per
              > > > document basis. In the Preferences you can set it for all new 
              > > documents.
              > > >
              > > > Regards
              > > >
              > > > Alexander Henket
              > > >
              > > > Op 7 jan 2008, om 18:51 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende 
              > > geschreven:
              > > >
              > > > > Standard convention for Unix files is that they should end with a
              > > > > newline. Is there any
              > > > > combination of settings that will get SubEthaEdit to do this?
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >


            • michael_j_barber
              Ah, but it is intrinsic to languages and standards! Most relevant here is that POSIX defines a text file as being terminated with a newline. Various programs
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 10, 2008
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                Ah, but it is intrinsic to languages and standards! Most relevant here is that POSIX defines
                a text file as being terminated with a newline. Various programs do make the assumption
                that they're working on text files that meet the definition, although most do cleanly handle
                files where the final newline is missing. Quite a few editors can enforce the condition; off
                the top of my head, vi, emacs, Eclipse, Alpha, Smultron.

                It's not just a personal preference. Quite the contrary - I'd prefer if all the tools I used
                were indifferent to whether there was a newline at end of file.

                Your suggested workaround is interesting, but doesn't sound very practical - attaching
                folder actions everywhere it might be needed sounds like it would only work on a rather
                small scale. I can think of a couple of other external approaches as well, none wholly
                satisfactory (e.g., a stay-open AppleScript that periodically checks each open SEE
                document, wrapping version control check-in to add a missing final newline,...).

                At any rate, I've filed a feature request through the Coding Monkeys' bug tracker.

                --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Your requirement is not something that is intrinsic to any language or
                > standard, but just something you want done. As such I would not expect
                > any editor at all to support that. To me this is like requiring to
                > have two open lines between "Dear sirs," and the rest of the letter.
                > It is not something you would expect an editor to enforce, it is a
                > procedural thing for the user.
                >
                > Maybe you could make it a folder action with AppleScript and the sed
                > command? I would not know if folder actions could work upon save, but
                > if so it might be an option. It would even work beyond SubEthaEdit in
                > that case.
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > Alexander
                >
                > Op 10 jan 2008, om 09:05 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:
                >
                > > OK, I'll bite: how do you enforce it? The mechanics of adding a line
                > > feed are not a
                > > challenge. Invoking it automatically on every save - and preferably
                > > in a mode dependent
                > > fashion - is the hard part.
                > >
                > > I'll take it that SubEthaEdit cannot do this. I quite disagree with
                > > your expectation, though:
                > > I'd definitely expect this to be handled by an editor that works in
                > > a Unix environment,
                > > seeing as several command line tools treat the line feed as line
                > > terminators, not line
                > > separators.
                > >
                > > --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > That sounds like a content requirement that I would not expect
                > > > SubEthaEdit itself to handle. However with the aforementioned sed
                > > > option or any other third party solution, you could still enforce
                > > it.
                > > >
                > > > Alexander Henket
                > > >
                > > > Op 9 jan 2008, om 10:09 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende
                > > geschreven:
                > > >
                > > > > I believe you have misread me. In the Format menu, you can set the
                > > > > line endings to be
                > > > > carriage returns, line feeds, or both. However, the file itself
                > > > > should end with a line feed,
                > > > > which is not enforced by setting "Use Unix/Mac OS X Line Endings
                > > > > (LF)". I'm looking for a
                > > > > way to require that.
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@>
                > > > > wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Under the Format menu you will find what you are looking for
                > > on per
                > > > > > document basis. In the Preferences you can set it for all new
                > > > > documents.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Regards
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Alexander Henket
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Op 7 jan 2008, om 18:51 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende
                > > > > geschreven:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > > Standard convention for Unix files is that they should end
                > > with a
                > > > > > > newline. Is there any
                > > > > > > combination of settings that will get SubEthaEdit to do this?
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Alexander Henket
                I did not know about the Posix requirement. It sounds like silly requirement, but if it is a standard, than so be it. A lot of great minds thought about Posix,
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 10, 2008
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                  I did not know about the Posix requirement. It sounds like silly requirement, but if it is a standard, than so be it. A lot of great minds thought about Posix, so who am I to judge that.

                  I hope for your sake the feature request will be taken into account.

                  Regards,

                  Alexander Henket


                  Op 10 jan 2008, om 17:37 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:

                  Ah, but it is intrinsic to languages and standards! Most relevant here is that POSIX defines 
                  a text file as being terminated with a newline. Various programs do make the assumption 
                  that they're working on text files that meet the definition, although most do cleanly handle 
                  files where the final newline is missing. Quite a few editors can enforce the condition; off 
                  the top of my head, vi, emacs, Eclipse, Alpha, Smultron. 

                  It's not just a personal preference. Quite the contrary - I'd prefer if all the tools I used 
                  were indifferent to whether there was a newline at end of file.

                  Your suggested workaround is interesting, but doesn't sound very practical - attaching
                  folder actions everywhere it might be needed sounds like it would only work on a rather 
                  small scale. I can think of a couple of other external approaches as well, none wholly 
                  satisfactory (e.g., a stay-open AppleScript that periodically checks each open SEE 
                  document, wrapping version control check-in to add a missing final newline,...) . 

                  At any rate, I've filed a feature request through the Coding Monkeys' bug tracker. 

                  --- In SubEthaEdit@ yahoogroups. com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@... > wrote:
                  >
                  > 
                  > Your requirement is not something that is intrinsic to any language or 
                  > standard, but just something you want done. As such I would not expect 
                  > any editor at all to support that. To me this is like requiring to 
                  > have two open lines between "Dear sirs," and the rest of the letter. 
                  > It is not something you would expect an editor to enforce, it is a 
                  > procedural thing for the user.
                  > 
                  > Maybe you could make it a folder action with AppleScript and the sed 
                  > command? I would not know if folder actions could work upon save, but 
                  > if so it might be an option. It would even work beyond SubEthaEdit in 
                  > that case.
                  > 
                  > Regards,
                  > 
                  > Alexander
                  > 
                  > Op 10 jan 2008, om 09:05 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:
                  > 
                  > > OK, I'll bite: how do you enforce it? The mechanics of adding a line 
                  > > feed are not a
                  > > challenge. Invoking it automatically on every save - and preferably 
                  > > in a mode dependent
                  > > fashion - is the hard part.
                  > >
                  > > I'll take it that SubEthaEdit cannot do this. I quite disagree with 
                  > > your expectation, though:
                  > > I'd definitely expect this to be handled by an editor that works in 
                  > > a Unix environment,
                  > > seeing as several command line tools treat the line feed as line 
                  > > terminators, not line
                  > > separators.
                  > >
                  > > --- In SubEthaEdit@ yahoogroups. com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@> 
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > That sounds like a content requirement that I would not expect
                  > > > SubEthaEdit itself to handle. However with the aforementioned sed
                  > > > option or any other third party solution, you could still enforce 
                  > > it.
                  > > >
                  > > > Alexander Henket
                  > > >
                  > > > Op 9 jan 2008, om 10:09 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende 
                  > > geschreven:
                  > > >
                  > > > > I believe you have misread me. In the Format menu, you can set the
                  > > > > line endings to be
                  > > > > carriage returns, line feeds, or both. However, the file itself
                  > > > > should end with a line feed,
                  > > > > which is not enforced by setting "Use Unix/Mac OS X Line Endings
                  > > > > (LF)". I'm looking for a
                  > > > > way to require that.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In SubEthaEdit@ yahoogroups. com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@>
                  > > > > wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Under the Format menu you will find what you are looking for 
                  > > on per
                  > > > > > document basis. In the Preferences you can set it for all new
                  > > > > documents.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Regards
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Alexander Henket
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Op 7 jan 2008, om 18:51 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende
                  > > > > geschreven:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Standard convention for Unix files is that they should end 
                  > > with a
                  > > > > > > newline. Is there any
                  > > > > > > combination of settings that will get SubEthaEdit to do this?
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >


                • michael_j_barber
                  POSIX does contain a fair share of silliness - there s a lot of history driving it, too. It s not strictly a requirement, though, but rather a definition.
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 10, 2008
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                    POSIX does contain a fair share of silliness - there's a lot of history driving it, too. It's not
                    strictly a requirement, though, but rather a definition. Nothing prevents programs from
                    handling both text-files-per-definition and text-files-but-for-the-final-newline, and
                    most do handle both. It can be a real puzzle when you run into one that doesn't, though!

                    --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > I did not know about the Posix requirement. It sounds like silly
                    > requirement, but if it is a standard, than so be it. A lot of great
                    > minds thought about Posix, so who am I to judge that.
                    >
                    > I hope for your sake the feature request will be taken into account.
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    >
                    > Alexander Henket
                    >
                    >
                    > Op 10 jan 2008, om 17:37 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende geschreven:
                    >
                    > > Ah, but it is intrinsic to languages and standards! Most relevant
                    > > here is that POSIX defines
                    > > a text file as being terminated with a newline. Various programs do
                    > > make the assumption
                    > > that they're working on text files that meet the definition,
                    > > although most do cleanly handle
                    > > files where the final newline is missing. Quite a few editors can
                    > > enforce the condition; off
                    > > the top of my head, vi, emacs, Eclipse, Alpha, Smultron.
                    > >
                    > > It's not just a personal preference. Quite the contrary - I'd prefer
                    > > if all the tools I used
                    > > were indifferent to whether there was a newline at end of file.
                    > >
                    > > Your suggested workaround is interesting, but doesn't sound very
                    > > practical - attaching
                    > > folder actions everywhere it might be needed sounds like it would
                    > > only work on a rather
                    > > small scale. I can think of a couple of other external approaches as
                    > > well, none wholly
                    > > satisfactory (e.g., a stay-open AppleScript that periodically checks
                    > > each open SEE
                    > > document, wrapping version control check-in to add a missing final
                    > > newline,...).
                    > >
                    > > At any rate, I've filed a feature request through the Coding
                    > > Monkeys' bug tracker.
                    > >
                    > > --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Your requirement is not something that is intrinsic to any
                    > > language or
                    > > > standard, but just something you want done. As such I would not
                    > > expect
                    > > > any editor at all to support that. To me this is like requiring to
                    > > > have two open lines between "Dear sirs," and the rest of the letter.
                    > > > It is not something you would expect an editor to enforce, it is a
                    > > > procedural thing for the user.
                    > > >
                    > > > Maybe you could make it a folder action with AppleScript and the sed
                    > > > command? I would not know if folder actions could work upon save,
                    > > but
                    > > > if so it might be an option. It would even work beyond SubEthaEdit
                    > > in
                    > > > that case.
                    > > >
                    > > > Regards,
                    > > >
                    > > > Alexander
                    > > >
                    > > > Op 10 jan 2008, om 09:05 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende
                    > > geschreven:
                    > > >
                    > > > > OK, I'll bite: how do you enforce it? The mechanics of adding a
                    > > line
                    > > > > feed are not a
                    > > > > challenge. Invoking it automatically on every save - and
                    > > preferably
                    > > > > in a mode dependent
                    > > > > fashion - is the hard part.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I'll take it that SubEthaEdit cannot do this. I quite disagree
                    > > with
                    > > > > your expectation, though:
                    > > > > I'd definitely expect this to be handled by an editor that works
                    > > in
                    > > > > a Unix environment,
                    > > > > seeing as several command line tools treat the line feed as line
                    > > > > terminators, not line
                    > > > > separators.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket <ahenket@>
                    > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > That sounds like a content requirement that I would not expect
                    > > > > > SubEthaEdit itself to handle. However with the aforementioned
                    > > sed
                    > > > > > option or any other third party solution, you could still
                    > > enforce
                    > > > > it.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Alexander Henket
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Op 9 jan 2008, om 10:09 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende
                    > > > > geschreven:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > > I believe you have misread me. In the Format menu, you can
                    > > set the
                    > > > > > > line endings to be
                    > > > > > > carriage returns, line feeds, or both. However, the file
                    > > itself
                    > > > > > > should end with a line feed,
                    > > > > > > which is not enforced by setting "Use Unix/Mac OS X Line
                    > > Endings
                    > > > > > > (LF)". I'm looking for a
                    > > > > > > way to require that.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > --- In SubEthaEdit@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Henket
                    > > <ahenket@>
                    > > > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Under the Format menu you will find what you are looking for
                    > > > > on per
                    > > > > > > > document basis. In the Preferences you can set it for all
                    > > new
                    > > > > > > documents.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Regards
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Alexander Henket
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Op 7 jan 2008, om 18:51 heeft michael_j_barber het volgende
                    > > > > > > geschreven:
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > Standard convention for Unix files is that they should end
                    > > > > with a
                    > > > > > > > > newline. Is there any
                    > > > > > > > > combination of settings that will get SubEthaEdit to do
                    > > this?
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
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