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Re: [Stonehaven Genealogy] Norse Vikings

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  • jnelson
    Hi, I live in the US and I seem to have the same condition, it s heredity, as my father and grandmother both had it-we re all Scots. Jamie
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 13, 2002
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      Hi,

      I live in the US and I seem to have the same condition,
      it's heredity, as my father and grandmother both had
      it-we're all Scots.

      Jamie
    • Fionapaton@aol.com
      Hi folks, I thought Stuart s email about the Viking connection was fascinating even though there are no Christie s in my line or my husband s - as far as we
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 14, 2002
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        Hi folks,

        I thought Stuart's email about the Viking connection was
        fascinating even though there are no Christie's in my
        line or my husband's - as far as we know. My husband has
        a probelm with his hands called Dupuytrens Contracture
        where the fingers bend towards the palm. Apparently this
        denotes Viking ancestry and I wondered if any other list
        people had similar experiences or indeed if Stuart felt
        this ailment was prevalent in his Christie's.

        Fiona
      • Stuart Christie
        Hi: Regarding Fiona¹s email, I¹m not aware of cases of Dupuytrens Contracture in my Christie line, but then again I never asked. I¹ll certainly check it
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 14, 2002
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          Hi:

          Regarding Fiona¹s email, I¹m not aware of cases of
          Dupuytrens Contracture in my Christie line, but then
          again I never asked. I¹ll certainly check it out, but
          as far as I know I don¹t have it.

          Best wishes ­ Stuart Christie

          www.christiebooks.com
        • Bervie
          There were Vikings in northern France, so perhaps it still came from the Vikings. ... Hi Jamie and fellow listers, Yes, Dupuytrens Contracture is something
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 15, 2002
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            There were Vikings in northern France, so perhaps it still
            came from the Vikings.



            ---Original Message---


            Hi Jamie and fellow listers,

            Yes, Dupuytrens Contracture is something that pops up in
            Scots thanks to the dear old Vikings. It is also fairly
            well known in Normandy so it is possible that the Normans
            or even Huegenot ancestors also brought it in to Scotland
            on other lines. My husband thought he had something very
            unusual until he saw a picture of his paternal great
            grandfather which appears to show a finger turning towards
            the palm. He mentioned this to an aunt by marriage on his
            maternal side and she said, "Oh your Uncle Bob had that!" so
            it appears it has come down to him from both sides although
            neither of his parents showed symptoms.

            Nothing could be done about it in the old days so it may
            have caused people to have to give up their occupations.
            Sad to say the National Health Service in the UK still does
            not seem to have quite caught up with modern treatments but
            there are specialists in Paris and Italy who can perform
            micro surgery with amazing results.

            I know this thread is a bit off topic but I find these little
            "side spurs" a fascinating angle on our ancestry which perhaps
            help us understand what other things they had to cope with in
            their lives.

            Bye for now.
            Fiona
          • Fionapaton@aol.com
            Hi Jamie and fellow listers, Yes, Dupuytrens Contracture is something that pops up in Scots thanks to the dear old Vikings. It is also fairly well known in
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 15, 2002
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              Hi Jamie and fellow listers,

              Yes, Dupuytrens Contracture is something that pops up in
              Scots thanks to the dear old Vikings. It is also fairly
              well known in Normandy so it is possible that the Normans
              or even Huegenot ancestors also brought it in to Scotland
              on other lines. My husband thought he had something very
              unusual until he saw a picture of his paternal great
              grandfather which appears to show a finger turning towards
              the palm. He mentioned this to an aunt by marriage on his
              maternal side and she said, "Oh your Uncle Bob had that!" so
              it appears it has come down to him from both sides although
              neither of his parents showed symptoms.

              Nothing could be done about it in the old days so it may
              have caused people to have to give up their occupations.
              Sad to say the National Health Service in the UK still does
              not seem to have quite caught up with modern treatments but
              there are specialists in Paris and Italy who can perform
              micro surgery with amazing results.

              I know this thread is a bit off topic but I find these little
              "side spurs" a fascinating angle on our ancestry which perhaps
              help us understand what other things they had to cope with in
              their lives.

              Bye for now.
              Fiona
            • SeaMensa
              Fiona, noticed your notes on the Vikings, and the Huguenots. I have studied both, and do some work with the Duzine Huguenot group of New Paltz NY in the US on
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 21, 2002
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                Fiona, noticed your notes on the Vikings, and the
                Huguenots. I have studied both, and do some work
                with the Duzine Huguenot group of New Paltz NY in
                the US on occassion.

                On the Scandanavian habits of old, yes, I agree
                that the Vikings were definately involved in much
                of the insurgencies into the gene pool across most
                of the pre and post Gaulish movements, however, I
                find it interesting that their language today, has
                still remained somewhat insular, compared to other
                likened histories.

                I am of Italian, Swedish, Scot descent, and will
                be going to Scotland in the spring with my sister,
                Ginger.

                Best of all,

                James Dunlap BS BA ASCAP FCC CG
                Postal Box 147
                Stone Ridge NY 12477
              • althohippie
                --Hi I m not sure if this is the same syndrome but my brother, sister and I all have what we always just called bent pinkies, mine are only curved , my sister
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 26, 2002
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                  --Hi I'm not sure if this is the same syndrome
                  but my brother, sister and I all have what we
                  always just called bent pinkies, mine are only
                  curved , my sister only has one bent, but at
                  an angle, my brothers are at an angle as are my
                  mothers. I think my mothers family all had the
                  same. They were from Gourdon and called Ritchie.
                  My mothers fathers name was Carnegie, but I don't
                  know if he had bent pinkies. This may not be the
                  same syndrome as it causes no problems doing
                  anything.

                  Agnes Thomson
                • Fionapaton@aol.com
                  Hi folks, Very interested in info on bent pinkies as I believe this is a symtom of Dupuytrens Contracture. My husband and some members of his family suffer
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 27, 2002
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                    Hi folks,

                    Very interested in info on bent pinkies as I believe
                    this is a symtom of Dupuytrens Contracture. My
                    husband and some members of his family suffer from
                    severely deformed ring fingers (bent towards the palm
                    at increasing angles) and in his family it was called
                    "trigger finger". Apparently it descends from Viking
                    ancestry. In the UK, treatment is very complex
                    requiring general anaesthetic and skin grafts but in
                    Paris it is a local anaesthetic, 20 minutes treatment
                    and no skin grafts. The condition is fairly common in
                    Normandy and specialists take it seriously enough to
                    have experts. (Yes, we did go to Paris and the op was
                    100% successful for relatively little outlay. My
                    husband was constantly knocking things over with his
                    "funny" finger and the breakages were horrendous!!)

                    Fiona
                  • David Stephen
                    Hi all I am a person who has bent pinkies on both hands. I was always led to believe that it came from my mothers side but after reading the messages posted
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 28, 2002
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                      Hi all

                      I am a person who has bent pinkies on both hands.
                      I was always led to believe that it came from my
                      mothers side but after reading the messages
                      posted here I find that it may have come from my
                      father's side.

                      My ancestors are:

                      - Stephen's (Catterline)
                      - Scott's (Fetteresso)
                      - Gove's (Benholm)
                      - Murray's (Fetteresso)

                      So it may have come down the line from the Gove's.
                      I am the only person in my family with bent
                      pinkies. My mother's family (Young's and Whyte's
                      are from Angus with none of the other name's
                      mentioned in her lines.

                      Does anybody have a definitive answer to where
                      this may have originated from.

                      From a warm (30 celsius) Brisbane
                      David Stephen
                    • Fionapaton@aol.com
                      Hi folks, Just an extra note from one who has done a bit of delving on the subject of bent fingers (I don t claim to be an expert - but have spoken to a few!)
                      Message 10 of 21 , Dec 1, 2002
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                        Hi folks,

                        Just an extra note from one who has done a bit of
                        delving on the subject of bent fingers (I don't
                        claim to be an expert - but have spoken to a few!)
                        The medical condition which causes these problems
                        is found in both the Vikings and in the Normans.
                        Given that both of these invaders had a huge
                        influence on Scotland and on the UK in general we
                        can only begin to guess at our "carrier" ancestors.

                        I personally have a fair old mixed bag of ancestral
                        roots and no sign of bent fingers, but my husband,
                        who has strong and varied Scottish roots, presumes
                        that he probably inherits his problems from the
                        Vikings.

                        In short term genealogy he has no particularly
                        traceable roots with Viking names. However he does
                        have the name Coventry in his ancestry from
                        Kinross-shire and they descend from Normans. The
                        French surgeons who excel in treatment deal with
                        those who are predominantly of Norman descent.

                        The mystery thickens!
                        Fiona
                      • don.esslemont@paradise.net.nz
                        Well, yes ... The Normans (=North or Norse men) were essentially Vikings who had settled in Northern France for a few generations :-) Regards, Don ... ... The
                        Message 11 of 21 , Dec 1, 2002
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                          Well, yes ...

                          The Normans (=North or Norse men) were essentially
                          Vikings who had settled in Northern France for a few
                          generations :-)

                          Regards,
                          Don



                          ---Original Message---

                          ... The medical condition which causes these problems
                          is found in both the Vikings and in the Normans.
                        • Fionapaton@aol.com
                          Hi folks, Those interested in Duyputrens Contacture may be interested in the web pages noted below which contain pictures of the varying degrees of the
                          Message 12 of 21 , Dec 4, 2002
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                            Hi folks,

                            Those interested in Duyputrens Contacture may be
                            interested in the web pages noted below which contain
                            pictures of the varying degrees of the problem.

                            http://perso.wanadoo.fr/f.badois-dupuytren/html/gbsommaire.html

                            I thought it was very interesting.

                            Best wishes,
                            Fiona
                          • Phyl Simpson
                            Hi All, I have been interested in all the messages about bent pinkies. My late Mother-in-law and also a brother-in-law had bent pinkies. They were not related
                            Message 13 of 21 , Dec 6, 2002
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                              Hi All,

                              I have been interested in all the messages about bent pinkies.
                              My late Mother-in-law and also a brother-in-law had bent
                              pinkies. They were not related to any of the names mentioned.
                              M-i-l was descended from BALSOM from Devon and also SYMONS from
                              Cornwall. I have no knowledge of this condition in these
                              families, but that is not to say it was not there, as I don't
                              have much info on the ancestors health conditions. The B-i-l
                              is descended from SIMPSON and GIBB from Strichen and Peterhead.
                            • bellajaneca <thumpr@telus.net>
                              All the messages on bent pinkies has been interesting. I have both pinkies bent, but out of 5 children I am the only one who has them. My mother (BEATON) has
                              Message 14 of 21 , Dec 6, 2002
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                                All the messages on bent pinkies has been interesting.
                                I have both pinkies bent, but out of 5 children I am
                                the only one who has them. My mother (BEATON) has them
                                her family comes from the isle of skye. My paternal
                                grandfather (LANCASTER) had them but he is from
                                England. As far as I know my Maternal grandmother
                                (MIDDLETON), didn't have them. This is the first time
                                I have heard of so many people with them, never came
                                across anyone outside of family before.

                                Merry Christmas to all

                                Jo-Anne
                                Kamloops, BC, Canada
                              • Phyl Simpson
                                Hi Joanne, My Mother-in-law and brother-in-law both had the little finger bent towards the palm. My husband s grandfather was John SIMPSON b 1847 Strichen m.
                                Message 15 of 21 , Dec 7, 2002
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                                  Hi Joanne,

                                  My Mother-in-law and brother-in-law both had the little
                                  finger bent towards the palm.

                                  My husband's grandfather was John SIMPSON b 1847 Strichen
                                  m. Helen GIBB b Mar 1848 Peterhead (m 1878 Strichen)

                                  John was s/o William SIMPSON / Margaret PRATT m 1844
                                  Strichen Wm s/o John SIMPSON/Jean HARDIE m 1828 New Deer
                                  John s/o Arthur SIMPSON/Margaret FARQUHAR m 1763 Arthur
                                  s/o John SIMPSON/ Isobel MORRICE m 1733 Fraserburgh

                                  John (b 1847) had siblings Jane, James Pratt, Alexander
                                  (d infant), Margaret, Elisa Ann (d.infant) and William.
                                  (William emigrated to Australia)

                                  I have no info on the siblings families , except that
                                  James Pratt d Oct 1888, lost overboard from St.Colona
                                  of Dundee in St. John, New Brunswick, North America.

                                  I would love to catch up with a SIMPSON relative.

                                  MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL LISTERS.
                                  AND OUR MODERATOR JIM

                                  Phyl



                                  ---Original Message---

                                  Howdy Phyl ....

                                  My maternal Great-Grandfather(Alexander MacNaughton)'s mother
                                  ......that would be my GGGrandmother was Margaret Simpson who
                                  married Andrew MacNaughton.........I am still researching the
                                  bent pinkie thing to see if she had one or the MacNaughton's
                                  had them.........I also want to clarify what OUR bent pinkies
                                  look like ........... they are just a little bent towards the
                                  other fingers of the hand........NOT bent in towards the palm
                                  of the hand ........ I don't know if that describes it or not
                                  ....... BUT it is NOT a "condition" that gets worse as we age
                                  .........the little pinkies are bent slightly from birth.

                                  I wonder Phyl....could we be related through the Simpson's???

                                  Have a GREAT Christmas and Happy New Year !!

                                  Joanne Nina MacNaughton-Stevenson-Zolnierek (formerly Buller)
                                • Charlotte Duthie
                                  My name is Charlotte Emslie. I have bent pinkies on both hands. My father and his father, too had the same. The Emslies lived in Nigg, Kincardine until about
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Feb 13, 2005
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                                    My name is Charlotte Emslie. I have bent pinkies on both hands.
                                    My father and his father, too had the same. The Emslies lived
                                    in Nigg, Kincardine until about 1900. Are there any other
                                    Emslies (and/or Elmslies) who have inherited the bent pinkies?
                                  • Frank Webster
                                    Charlotte, In my family we have bent index fingers. This trait comes from my father s mother s family (Parkin of Denaby Grange in Yorkshire). Every descendant
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Feb 14, 2005
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                                      Charlotte,

                                      In my family we have bent index fingers. This trait comes
                                      from my father's mother's family (Parkin of Denaby Grange
                                      in Yorkshire). Every descendant of, going back as far as
                                      I know, William Leonard Parkin (1849-1888) has inherited
                                      this trait - although I believe that it goes back much
                                      further.

                                      Do you know what causes these traits? I'd be interested to
                                      know.

                                      Frank Webster,
                                      University of Aberdeen


                                      ---Original Message---

                                      My name is Charlotte Emslie. I have bent pinkies on both hands.
                                      My father and his father, too had the same. The Emslies lived
                                      in Nigg, Kincardine until about 1900. Are there any other
                                      Emslies (and/or Elmslies) who have inherited the bent pinkies?
                                    • C Lethaby
                                      Hi Charlotte, My name is Christine Lethaby. We have the bent pinkie running through our family as well and I believe it comes from my mothers grandfather
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Feb 15, 2005
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                                        Hi Charlotte,

                                        My name is Christine Lethaby. We have the bent pinkie running
                                        through our family as well and I believe it comes from my
                                        mothers grandfather Francis CRAIG who came from Wick in
                                        Caithness. He was born in 1840 and came to New Zealand in
                                        1862.

                                        Thanks for bringing the subject up.
                                        Christine Lethaby


                                        ---Original Message---

                                        Charlotte said

                                        My name is Charlotte Emslie. I have bent pinkies on both hands.
                                        My father and his father, too had the same. The Emslies lived
                                        in Nigg, Kincardine until about 1900. Are there any other
                                        Emslies (and/or Elmslies) who have inherited the bent pinkies?'
                                      • Gillian
                                        How very interesting. I can t lay claim to any Emslie blood (at least, I haven t found any YET) although my forebears do come from the fishing & farming
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Feb 17, 2005
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                                          How very interesting. I can't lay claim to any Emslie blood
                                          (at least, I haven't found any YET) although my forebears do
                                          come from the fishing & farming communities of Kincardineshire.
                                          But I do have the double bent-pinky syndrome and we've never
                                          known whose genes are responsible for it!

                                          Sorry I can't help with your quest, but it is nice to meet
                                          someone else with a matching trait - you're the first I've
                                          ever come across!

                                          Gillian


                                          ---Original Message---

                                          My name is Charlotte Emslie. I have bent pinkies on both hands.
                                          My father and his father, too had the same. The Emslies lived
                                          in Nigg, Kincardine until about 1900. Are there any other
                                          Emslies (and/or Elmslies) who have inherited the bent pinkies?
                                        • Jo
                                          Wahoooo..Finally someone else in the world with inherited bent pinkies on both hands too...I got my pinkies from my Mom Nina MacNaughton Hess-Stevenson, and
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Mar 8, 2005
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                                            Wahoooo..Finally someone else in the world with inherited bent
                                            pinkies on both hands too...I got my pinkies from my Mom Nina
                                            MacNaughton Hess-Stevenson, and from her Mom, Nina MacNaughton
                                            -Hess, Stonehaven..her Mom, Anne Fettes-MacNaughton, Fetteresso
                                            ...So I wonder where my Great-Great Grandmom got her bent
                                            pinkies from??

                                            My sister, Janet, her daughter Victoria, and my Daughter Leslie
                                            Nina all have the same bent pinkies!

                                            We love our bent pinkies .. although it does cause some grief
                                            while we type!!

                                            We should start an exclusive BPCW...Bent Pinkie Club of The
                                            World!

                                            Have a Great Day!
                                            Joanne Nina MacNaughton-Stevenson-Zolnierek
                                            Pennsylvania


                                            ---Original Message---

                                            My name is Charlotte Emslie. I have bent pinkies on both hands.
                                            My father and his father, too had the same. The Emslies lived
                                            in Nigg, Kincardine until about 1900. Are there any other
                                            Emslies (and/or Elmslies) who have inherited the bent pinkies?
                                          • Rose Munro
                                            Hi Joanne, I was reading your post. It s funny that you mention the bent pinkies. All my life my dad told us that this was a sign that we were truly Munro s.
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Mar 10, 2005
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                                              Hi Joanne,

                                              I was reading your post. It's funny that you mention the bent
                                              pinkies. All my life my dad told us that this was a sign that
                                              we were truly "Munro's." The bent pinkies are characteristic
                                              of the Munro family. Our pinkies are bent on the top. From
                                              the first knuckle to the tip it takes a inward curve. Does
                                              that sound familiar? I think in reality most peoples pinkies
                                              are bent.

                                              Ròs Nic an Roithaich


                                              ---Original Message---

                                              Wahoooo..Finally someone else in the world with inherited bent
                                              pinkies on both hands too...I got my pinkies from my Mom Nina
                                              MacNaughton Hess-Stevenson, and from her Mom, Nina MacNaughton
                                              -Hess, Stonehaven..her Mom, Anne Fettes-MacNaughton, Fetteresso
                                              ...So I wonder where my Great-Great Grandmom got her bent
                                              pinkies from??

                                              My sister, Janet, her daughter Victoria, and my Daughter Leslie
                                              Nina all have the same bent pinkies!

                                              We love our bent pinkies .. although it does cause some grief
                                              while we type!!

                                              We should start an exclusive BPCW...Bent Pinkie Club of The
                                              World!

                                              Have a Great Day!
                                              Joanne Nina MacNaughton-Stevenson-Zolnierek
                                              Pennsylvania
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