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Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: Kepp it simple??

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  • Mike Volckmann
    Chuck, A new wrinkle to the whole logging of a demonstration flight in the GA world. We now are prohibited from logging the demonstration flight in the
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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      Chuck,
       
      A new wrinkle to the whole logging of a demonstration flight in the GA world.  We now are prohibited from logging the demonstration flight in the prospective students log book unless we have seen proof of his citizenship prior to the flight.  This is a rule that the TSA implemented October of 2004 in response to 911.  The whole paperwork issue gets even more complicated for the flight instructor if the potential student is not a US citizen.
       
      Mike
      CFI, CFII, MEI

      Chuck Scrivner <goflyslow2@...> wrote:
      --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Peter Walker
      <peterwalker58@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello
      >    That loophole may work but when something goes wrong. What are
      the liability issues??

      ***************************************
      None...as far as the legality of what was actually being done, 
      It IS instruction.  And there is no need for the Instructor to log
      an "orientation" flight in a student log book.  It is not done in G.A.

      The prerequiste for Ultralight exempted instructors, was for the
      student to be an Org, member.  That cost was  $5 dollars and the
      application sent in to the ORG. within a set time after the flight
      took place.

      There is NO requirement for GA instructors to sign up their students
      or to keep records of all "demo" flights.
      Chuck
      *************************************************

      > Chuck Scrivner <goflyslow2@a...> wrote:
      >   --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Scrivner" <>
      > > THE REQUEST FOR 2 PERSON FLIGHT IN AN ULTRALIGHT WAS NOT
      SOMETHING
      > > NEW.
      > >
      > > The FAA had ALREADY granted that privilage to the USHGA, and it
      is
      > > CURRENTLY in effect....and is NOT due to be discontinued.
      > >
      > > As well, for THAT organization (USHGA), the training exemptions
      for
      > 2
      > > place instruction (commercial paid)are to continue....under an
      > > exemption.......
      > > Funny thing.... FAA told the OTHER Orgs. in WRITING they could no
      > > longer do that becaues they "could not continue to rule by
      > exemption"
      > ******************************
      >
      > A follow up
      >
      > I usually like to provide references,
      > So here this one is.
      >
      > http://www.ushga.org/hndbook.asp#PILOTPROFICIENCYPROGRAM
      >
      > FAA EXEMPTION #4721
      > This exemption to Federal Aviation Regulation 103.1(a) and 103.1
      (b),
      > permits pilots to operate an unpowered ultralight vehicle with
      > another occupant for the purpose of sport, recreation and/or
      > training. This exemption is subject to the following conditions and
      > limitations: (snipping)
      >
      >
      > 5) Both occupants on all two-place flights, other than for training
      > purposes, must possess a current pilot rating  issued by the USHGA
      > and at least one occupant must possess a current Advanced hang
      glider
      > rating issued by the USHGA.
      > **********************************
      > Chuck Writes -
      > An issued Student pilot rating is a "rating" as in the above.
      >   So, this is the "loop hole" that allows the above Pilot take his
      > friends, with no previous experience.
      >
      >
      >    THIS is how the "loophole" worked for Powered Ultralights. 
      Except
      > that the Pilot needed to have the advanced training and instructor
      > certificate to be able to take up his "students".   
      >
      >   But remember, this was not much of a loop hole or skirting the
      > law.  EVERY two place ride (Demo) can be called an instructional
      > ride.  
      >
      > Everybodys first ride is just that....an instructional, demo and
      > orientation ride.
      >
      > Sport Pilot instructors are ALSO limited to INSTRUCTION.....for
      > commercially paid purposes.
      >
      > So, is giving a "ride" considered instruction?   NOPE.
      >
      > But calling it a demo flight is the loop hole used in a Sport Plane
      > for commercial sight seeing rides and passenger photography, and
      > selling inflight pictures and all the other stuff that normally
      > requires a Commercial Pilot Certificate...............which is not
      > available under Sport Pilot. 
      >
      > Chuck
      >
      >
      >
      >
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