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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Use of GPS in private pilot cer

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  • circicirci
    Hi Norm, You said A non certified GPS works just as well as a certified one. I wasn t questioning the USEFULNESS of a non TSO d GPS .... just if it would
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 7 3:38 PM
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      Hi Norm,

      You said "A non certified GPS works just as well as a certified one."

      I wasn't questioning the USEFULNESS of a non TSO'd GPS .... just if it would raise questions with CFIs or Flight Examiners.

      As for your preferring to navigate by charts and dead reckoning:
      Each to his own. I do always keep a reasonably current paper chart in the plane, but personally, chart and dead reckoning is my last resort. Not to so say I don't use pilotage and constantly reference what's on the GPS to what's actually outside the plane.
      But far as I'm concerned there's a good reason it's called "dead" reckoning. ;-) I'm sure in the pre-VOR days many a pilot was killed by navigation errors. For dramatic example, think of Amelia.
      There were a lot of military planes lost over the USA during WWII,
      many by navigation failures.

      Sure, if I'm within 100 miles of home base I'll probably be fine with dead reckoning and pilotage, unless maybe visibility closed down, but I'd no more go outside that without a working GPS than without sufficient fuel.

      As for your liking the older GPS better than the modern ones, again, each to his own.
      I love the fact that my GPS warns me of all terrain higher than I am with red color on the moving map sectional, pops up warnings for terrain, as well as airspace and TFRs.
      For a few hundred bucks more I can get an ADS-B device that plugs into it that will show me the exact location of much of the other airtraffic around. And it indirectly tells me how much headwind, crosswind, or tailwind I have.

      As far as I personally am concerned anytime out of familiar terrain and any serious cross country a GPS is a basic flight instrument.
      Could I fly without it? Sure. You do. I could also fly without an altimeter and without an airspeed indicator (I did fly hang gliders decades ago with NO instruments) and without a radio.

      You called paper charts "cheap insurance." I'd say a GPS is that and more. Given how cheap they've gotten and how much functionality they keep adding, it seems like a lot of functionality and safety for a low price.

      So I'd probably flip your take over and say "never rely solely on dead reckoning." <g>

      My two cents.

      Alex
      --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Norman Davis <nedavis49015@...> wrote:
      >
      > A non certified GPS works just as well as a certified one. As long as you keep the data current, there is no problem. Additionally, this is or VFR training. The best item to use  against GPS and any other electronic/mechanical failure is the old tried and true aeronautical chart. I'm never without one. Besides I find it reassuring to look outside and then refer to the chart as an additional reference. 
      >
      > Charts are inexpensive insurance. In fact my GPS broke 10 years ago and I never replaced it. So I navigate exclusively by charts and dead reckoning. I seldom travel more than 100 miles in any direction. I've memorized most of the area, so I just keep the latest chart(s) with me. Never rely solely on the GPS. I'm not impressed with the new multi color GPS displays. Very confusing. My old Garmin 95 had a little airplane cursor that would move if I was of course. All the info I needed which included air, ground speed and altitude was sufficient. 
      >
      > Norm Davis
      >
    • Bill
      ... Don t know how true it is, but over the years I have read that the original term was ded reckoning , which is a shortening of deduced reckoning . But
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 8 3:28 AM
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        --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "circicirci" <acensor@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Norm,
        >
        > You said "A non certified GPS works just as well as a certified > But far as I'm concerned there's a good reason it's called "dead" reckoning. ;-) I'm sure in the pre-VOR days many a pilot was killed by navigation errors. For dramatic example, think of Amelia.
        > There were a lot of military planes lost over the USA during WWII,
        > many by navigation failures.

        Don't know how true it is, but over the years I have read that the original term was "ded reckoning", which is a shortening of "deduced reckoning".

        But given the too-often outcome of this type of navigation, "dead" may unfortunately be all-too appropriate...
      • Norman Davis
        My main point is not to completely rely on any electronic/mechanical device including GPS to do all your navigating for you under VFR conditions. When it
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 8 6:55 AM
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          My main point is not to completely rely on any electronic/mechanical device including GPS to do all your navigating for you under VFR conditions. When it malfunctions, then what? It's better tor be well versed in other navigation methods as well. I'm glad to see VOR fading away. I always found it very confusing and more complicated than it needed to be. I like GPS too, but I get frustrated with too many features and they are quite pricy.

          I've been aviating only since 1989, so I'm not that far out of touch!   Back in my "early pioneering" days we had a mysterious alternate system named LORAN. It was being shut down as I was coming on board, so I never really had an opportunity to use it. It looked like an interesting system. I heard recently that the system was being reintroduced, but in more sophisticated form.

          You can use what ever you like. Just don't look at it all the time. There is some beautiful country to view, so don't waste the opportunity.

          Norm Davis  


        • Richard Williams
          The loran system of navigation was shut down in Feburary 8, 2010 as part of the pledge (by obama) to eliminate unnecessary federal programs. R. Williams ...
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 8 10:26 AM
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            The loran system of navigation was shut down in Feburary 8, 2010 as part of the
            pledge (by obama) to eliminate unnecessary federal programs.

            R. Williams


            ---------- Original Message -----------
            From: Norman Davis <nedavis49015@...>
            To: "Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:55:44 -0700 (PDT)
            Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Use of GPS in private pilot cer

            > My main point is not to completely rely on any electronic/mechanical
            > device including GPS to do all your navigating for you under VFR
            > conditions. When it malfunctions, then what? It's better tor be well
            > versed in other navigation methods as well. I'm glad to see VOR fading
            > away. I always found it very confusing and more complicated than it
            > needed to be. I like GPS too, but I get frustrated with too many
            > features and they are quite pricy.
            >
            > I've been aviating only since 1989, so I'm not that far out of touch!
            >   Back in my "early pioneering" days we had a mysterious alternate
            > system named LORAN. It was being shut down as I was coming on board,
            > so I never really had an opportunity to use it. It looked like an
            > interesting system. I heard recently that the system was being
            > reintroduced, but in more sophisticated form.
            >
            > You can use what ever you like. Just don't look at it all the time.
            > There is some beautiful country to view, so don't waste the opportunity.
            >
            > Norm Davis  
            ------- End of Original Message -------
          • xrans
            Yes and now he has cut military with both a bugdet cut and the automatic 16.5% sequestering cuts pity our grand kids dr ... Yes and now he has cut military
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 8 12:28 PM
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              Yes and now he has cut military with both a bugdet cut and the automatic 16.5% sequestering cuts
              pity our grand kids
              dr
               


              The loran system of navigation was shut down in Feburary 8, 2010 as part of the
              pledge (by obama) to eliminate unnecessary federal programs.

              R. Williams

              ---------- Original Message -----------
              From: Norman Davis <nedavis49015@... >
              To: " Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" < Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:55:44 -0700 (PDT)
              Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Use of GPS in private pilot cer

              > My main point is not to completely rely on any electronic/mechanical
              > device including GPS to do all your navigating for you under VFR
              > conditions. When it malfunctions, then what? It's better tor be well
              > versed in other navigation methods as well. I'm glad to see VOR fading
              > away. I always found it very confusing and more complicated than it
              > needed to be. I like GPS too, but I get frustrated with too many
              > features and they are quite pricy.
              >
              > I've been aviating only since 1989, so I'm not that far out of touch!
              > Â Back in my "early pioneering" days we had a mysterious alternate
              > system named LORAN. It was being shut down as I was coming on board,
              > so I never really had an opportunity to use it. It looked like an
              > interesting system. I heard recently that the system was being
              > reintroduced, but in more sophisticated form.
              >
              > You can use what ever you like. Just don't look at it all the time.
              > There is some beautiful country to view, so don't waste the opportunity.
              >
              > Norm Davis Â
              ------- End of Original Message -------


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