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Re: great OSH clip

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  • Ralph
    It s going to be interesting to see some of those LSA s takeoff and land with two people on that short runway. It s fine for an ultralight, but kind of
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 1 5:48 AM
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      It's going to be interesting to see some of those LSA's takeoff and
      land with two people on that short runway. It's fine for an
      ultralight, but kind of marginal for a 1300 lb plane.

      Ralph

      --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica"
      <apollonorthamerica@...> wrote:
      >
      > Oh yeah ...I walked also. Its freaking far.
      > And also the UL area was DEAD. How do they expect to guide people
      back
      > to the UL area when the show has established that for the last 3
      years
      > that area has been dying a slow death and they have not done
      anything
      > to change that. I guess you are saying that when LSA's are all moved
      > there, it will be revived but I am not so sure all LSA's are being
      > moved there. I don't think there is a rule that says that if you are
      > displaying a LSA, you must be in this area. Looking at it last
      year, I
      > wouldn't blame any vendor to "not" want to be in that area and pay
      for it.
      > Abid
      >
      > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Helen Woods <Helen_Woods@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > I hadn't heard about the LSA mall decision but I actually think it
      > would
      > > be a good move to move the LSAs over to the ultralight area.
      Why?
      > LSAs
      > > were and will continue to be a HUGE and GROWING part of OSH. The
      mall
      > > could not and cannot accomdate all of the vendors thenselves in
      its
      > > prime location at the front door to the event. Instead, each of
      the
      > > major vendors was asked to place a sample plane in the mall. For
      many
      > > of these smaller companies, this presented a major staffing issue
      since
      > > they had to man both their main display, and their aircraft in
      the
      > > mall. They didn't have the man power they needed to spend
      adequate
      > time
      > > with customers or let people climb in while manning two separate
      > > locations. Additionally, some of the LSAs ended up down in the
      > > ultralight area and others in the home built area anyway making
      it
      > > difficult to see all of the types which had come. Placing all of
      the
      > > LSAs in the ultralight area where there is plenty of room for
      everyone
      > > to spread out and put all of the LSAs together just makes sense.
      > >
      > > Finally, placing the LSAs down in the ultralight area means we
      might
      > > potentially be able to take demo flights in the LSAs, something
      that is
      > > not feasible in the other areas. The main runways at OSH are the
      > > busiest in the world just with people coming and going. There's
      no way
      > > to accommodate demo flights off the main runways. Even if there
      were,
      > > it would be just about impossible for vendors to get their planes
      from
      > > their tightly cramped mall booths out to the runways. The
      ultralight
      > > runway by contrast is open in the mornings and evenings for
      people to
      > > "beat up the pattern" with plenty of access from the booths to it
      and
      > > would potentially afford a chance to demo aircraft.
      > >
      > > As for your complaint about trollies, have you ever considered
      > walking?
      > > It's not that far, and the exercise might do you good and even
      give you
      > > a few extra pounds of spare useful load in that snazzy new LSA
      you plan
      > > on coming home with. If you insist upon riding, two trollies,
      the
      > > yellow and blue, will take you the bulk of the way. You only
      need a
      > > third trollie if you insist upon being dropped off immediately in
      front
      > > of the runway. They also have scooters available to rent.
      > >
      > > Helen
      > >
      > > apollonorthamerica wrote:
      > > > Oshkosh is a slightly bigger show. However, in all their wisdom
      > > > Oshkosh has decided to have "NO" LSA mall this year. They would
      like
      > > > light aircraft to go to their previous ultralight area, I
      guess. That
      > > > area is DEAD. Its completely out of the way of the rest of the
      show.
      > > > You need to change trolies 4 times before you get there. I hope
      > > > someone at Oshkosh wakes up and smells the coffee.
      > > > If you are looking at LSA ... Sun N Fun is THE place to be.
      > > > Abid
      > > >
      > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Mark Hancock <selah44@>
      wrote:
      > > >
      > > >> Helen and or others,
      > > >> I attended Sun N Fun last year and really enjoyed it and was
      > planning
      > > >> to go there again.
      > > >> In your opinion, is Oshkosh that much better for me to change
      > plans?
      > > >> Thanks
      > > >>
      > > >> On Jan 30, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Helen Woods wrote:
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >>> For those of you who may not have attended your first Oshkosh
      > yet, EAA
      > > >>> now has a nice video clip that touches well upon the
      excitement
      > of it:
      > > >>>
      > > >>> http://www.eaa.org/video/airventure.html?videoId=
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Helen Woods
      How long is the runway? With half tanks and a 10kt headwind I m close to pattern altitude at our 3000 runway in our Tecnam Echo Super. Helen
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 1 9:17 AM
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        How long is the runway? With half tanks and a 10kt headwind I'm close
        to pattern altitude at our 3000' runway in our Tecnam Echo Super.

        Helen

        Ralph wrote:
        > It's going to be interesting to see some of those LSA's takeoff and
        > land with two people on that short runway. It's fine for an
        > ultralight, but kind of marginal for a 1300 lb plane.
        >
        > Ralph
        >
        > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica"
        > <apollonorthamerica@...> wrote:
        >
        >> Oh yeah ...I walked also. Its freaking far.
        >> And also the UL area was DEAD. How do they expect to guide people
        >>
        > back
        >
        >> to the UL area when the show has established that for the last 3
        >>
        > years
        >
        >> that area has been dying a slow death and they have not done
        >>
        > anything
        >
        >> to change that. I guess you are saying that when LSA's are all moved
        >> there, it will be revived but I am not so sure all LSA's are being
        >> moved there. I don't think there is a rule that says that if you are
        >> displaying a LSA, you must be in this area. Looking at it last
        >>
        > year, I
        >
        >> wouldn't blame any vendor to "not" want to be in that area and pay
        >>
        > for it.
        >
        >> Abid
        >>
        >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Helen Woods <Helen_Woods@>
        >> wrote:
        >>
        >>> I hadn't heard about the LSA mall decision but I actually think it
        >>>
        >> would
        >>
        >>> be a good move to move the LSAs over to the ultralight area.
        >>>
        > Why?
        >
        >> LSAs
        >>
        >>> were and will continue to be a HUGE and GROWING part of OSH. The
        >>>
        > mall
        >
        >>> could not and cannot accomdate all of the vendors thenselves in
        >>>
        > its
        >
        >>> prime location at the front door to the event. Instead, each of
        >>>
        > the
        >
        >>> major vendors was asked to place a sample plane in the mall. For
        >>>
        > many
        >
        >>> of these smaller companies, this presented a major staffing issue
        >>>
        > since
        >
        >>> they had to man both their main display, and their aircraft in
        >>>
        > the
        >
        >>> mall. They didn't have the man power they needed to spend
        >>>
        > adequate
        >
        >> time
        >>
        >>> with customers or let people climb in while manning two separate
        >>> locations. Additionally, some of the LSAs ended up down in the
        >>> ultralight area and others in the home built area anyway making
        >>>
        > it
        >
        >>> difficult to see all of the types which had come. Placing all of
        >>>
        > the
        >
        >>> LSAs in the ultralight area where there is plenty of room for
        >>>
        > everyone
        >
        >>> to spread out and put all of the LSAs together just makes sense.
        >>>
        >>> Finally, placing the LSAs down in the ultralight area means we
        >>>
        > might
        >
        >>> potentially be able to take demo flights in the LSAs, something
        >>>
        > that is
        >
        >>> not feasible in the other areas. The main runways at OSH are the
        >>> busiest in the world just with people coming and going. There's
        >>>
        > no way
        >
        >>> to accommodate demo flights off the main runways. Even if there
        >>>
        > were,
        >
        >>> it would be just about impossible for vendors to get their planes
        >>>
        > from
        >
        >>> their tightly cramped mall booths out to the runways. The
        >>>
        > ultralight
        >
        >>> runway by contrast is open in the mornings and evenings for
        >>>
        > people to
        >
        >>> "beat up the pattern" with plenty of access from the booths to it
        >>>
        > and
        >
        >>> would potentially afford a chance to demo aircraft.
        >>>
        >>> As for your complaint about trollies, have you ever considered
        >>>
        >> walking?
        >>
        >>> It's not that far, and the exercise might do you good and even
        >>>
        > give you
        >
        >>> a few extra pounds of spare useful load in that snazzy new LSA
        >>>
        > you plan
        >
        >>> on coming home with. If you insist upon riding, two trollies,
        >>>
        > the
        >
        >>> yellow and blue, will take you the bulk of the way. You only
        >>>
        > need a
        >
        >>> third trollie if you insist upon being dropped off immediately in
        >>>
        > front
        >
        >>> of the runway. They also have scooters available to rent.
        >>>
        >>> Helen
        >>>
        >>> apollonorthamerica wrote:
        >>>
        >>>> Oshkosh is a slightly bigger show. However, in all their wisdom
        >>>> Oshkosh has decided to have "NO" LSA mall this year. They would
        >>>>
        > like
        >
        >>>> light aircraft to go to their previous ultralight area, I
        >>>>
        > guess. That
        >
        >>>> area is DEAD. Its completely out of the way of the rest of the
        >>>>
        > show.
        >
        >>>> You need to change trolies 4 times before you get there. I hope
        >>>> someone at Oshkosh wakes up and smells the coffee.
        >>>> If you are looking at LSA ... Sun N Fun is THE place to be.
        >>>> Abid
        >>>>
        >>>> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Mark Hancock <selah44@>
        >>>>
        > wrote:
        >
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>> Helen and or others,
        >>>>> I attended Sun N Fun last year and really enjoyed it and was
        >>>>>
        >> planning
        >>
        >>>>> to go there again.
        >>>>> In your opinion, is Oshkosh that much better for me to change
        >>>>>
        >> plans?
        >>
        >>>>> Thanks
        >>>>>
        >>>>> On Jan 30, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Helen Woods wrote:
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>> For those of you who may not have attended your first Oshkosh
        >>>>>>
        >> yet, EAA
        >>
        >>>>>> now has a nice video clip that touches well upon the
        >>>>>>
        > excitement
        >
        >> of it:
        >>
        >>>>>> http://www.eaa.org/video/airventure.html?videoId=
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Eric Shannon
        ... That runway is 1200 long by 100 wide, long enough for any LSA! Eric In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Helen Woods ... close ... and
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 2 8:05 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          ---
          That runway is 1200' long by 100' wide, long enough for any LSA!


          Eric




          In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Helen Woods <Helen_Woods@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > How long is the runway? With half tanks and a 10kt headwind I'm
          close
          > to pattern altitude at our 3000' runway in our Tecnam Echo Super.
          >
          > Helen
          >
          > Ralph wrote:
          > > It's going to be interesting to see some of those LSA's takeoff
          and
          > > land with two people on that short runway. It's fine for an
          > > ultralight, but kind of marginal for a 1300 lb plane.
          > >
          > > Ralph
          > >
          > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica"
          > > <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
          > >
          > >> Oh yeah ...I walked also. Its freaking far.
          > >> And also the UL area was DEAD. How do they expect to guide
          people
          > >>
          > > back
          > >
          > >> to the UL area when the show has established that for the last 3
          > >>
          > > years
          > >
          > >> that area has been dying a slow death and they have not done
          > >>
          > > anything
          > >
          > >> to change that. I guess you are saying that when LSA's are all
          moved
          > >> there, it will be revived but I am not so sure all LSA's are
          being
          > >> moved there. I don't think there is a rule that says that if you
          are
          > >> displaying a LSA, you must be in this area. Looking at it last
          > >>
          > > year, I
          > >
          > >> wouldn't blame any vendor to "not" want to be in that area and
          pay
          > >>
          > > for it.
          > >
          > >> Abid
          > >>
          > >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Helen Woods <Helen_Woods@>
          > >> wrote:
          > >>
          > >>> I hadn't heard about the LSA mall decision but I actually think
          it
          > >>>
          > >> would
          > >>
          > >>> be a good move to move the LSAs over to the ultralight area.
          > >>>
          > > Why?
          > >
          > >> LSAs
          > >>
          > >>> were and will continue to be a HUGE and GROWING part of OSH.
          The
          > >>>
          > > mall
          > >
          > >>> could not and cannot accomdate all of the vendors thenselves in
          > >>>
          > > its
          > >
          > >>> prime location at the front door to the event. Instead, each
          of
          > >>>
          > > the
          > >
          > >>> major vendors was asked to place a sample plane in the mall.
          For
          > >>>
          > > many
          > >
          > >>> of these smaller companies, this presented a major staffing
          issue
          > >>>
          > > since
          > >
          > >>> they had to man both their main display, and their aircraft in
          > >>>
          > > the
          > >
          > >>> mall. They didn't have the man power they needed to spend
          > >>>
          > > adequate
          > >
          > >> time
          > >>
          > >>> with customers or let people climb in while manning two
          separate
          > >>> locations. Additionally, some of the LSAs ended up down in the
          > >>> ultralight area and others in the home built area anyway making
          > >>>
          > > it
          > >
          > >>> difficult to see all of the types which had come. Placing all
          of
          > >>>
          > > the
          > >
          > >>> LSAs in the ultralight area where there is plenty of room for
          > >>>
          > > everyone
          > >
          > >>> to spread out and put all of the LSAs together just makes sense.
          > >>>
          > >>> Finally, placing the LSAs down in the ultralight area means we
          > >>>
          > > might
          > >
          > >>> potentially be able to take demo flights in the LSAs, something
          > >>>
          > > that is
          > >
          > >>> not feasible in the other areas. The main runways at OSH are
          the
          > >>> busiest in the world just with people coming and going.
          There's
          > >>>
          > > no way
          > >
          > >>> to accommodate demo flights off the main runways. Even if
          there
          > >>>
          > > were,
          > >
          > >>> it would be just about impossible for vendors to get their
          planes
          > >>>
          > > from
          > >
          > >>> their tightly cramped mall booths out to the runways. The
          > >>>
          > > ultralight
          > >
          > >>> runway by contrast is open in the mornings and evenings for
          > >>>
          > > people to
          > >
          > >>> "beat up the pattern" with plenty of access from the booths to
          it
          > >>>
          > > and
          > >
          > >>> would potentially afford a chance to demo aircraft.
          > >>>
          > >>> As for your complaint about trollies, have you ever considered
          > >>>
          > >> walking?
          > >>
          > >>> It's not that far, and the exercise might do you good and even
          > >>>
          > > give you
          > >
          > >>> a few extra pounds of spare useful load in that snazzy new LSA
          > >>>
          > > you plan
          > >
          > >>> on coming home with. If you insist upon riding, two trollies,
          > >>>
          > > the
          > >
          > >>> yellow and blue, will take you the bulk of the way. You only
          > >>>
          > > need a
          > >
          > >>> third trollie if you insist upon being dropped off immediately
          in
          > >>>
          > > front
          > >
          > >>> of the runway. They also have scooters available to rent.
          > >>>
          > >>> Helen
          > >>>
          > >>> apollonorthamerica wrote:
          > >>>
          > >>>> Oshkosh is a slightly bigger show. However, in all their wisdom
          > >>>> Oshkosh has decided to have "NO" LSA mall this year. They
          would
          > >>>>
          > > like
          > >
          > >>>> light aircraft to go to their previous ultralight area, I
          > >>>>
          > > guess. That
          > >
          > >>>> area is DEAD. Its completely out of the way of the rest of the
          > >>>>
          > > show.
          > >
          > >>>> You need to change trolies 4 times before you get there. I hope
          > >>>> someone at Oshkosh wakes up and smells the coffee.
          > >>>> If you are looking at LSA ... Sun N Fun is THE place to be.
          > >>>> Abid
          > >>>>
          > >>>> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Mark Hancock <selah44@>
          > >>>>
          > > wrote:
          > >
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>> Helen and or others,
          > >>>>> I attended Sun N Fun last year and really enjoyed it and was
          > >>>>>
          > >> planning
          > >>
          > >>>>> to go there again.
          > >>>>> In your opinion, is Oshkosh that much better for me to change
          > >>>>>
          > >> plans?
          > >>
          > >>>>> Thanks
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>> On Jan 30, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Helen Woods wrote:
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>> For those of you who may not have attended your first Oshkosh
          > >>>>>>
          > >> yet, EAA
          > >>
          > >>>>>> now has a nice video clip that touches well upon the
          > >>>>>>
          > > excitement
          > >
          > >> of it:
          > >>
          > >>>>>> http://www.eaa.org/video/airventure.html?videoId=
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • apollonorthamerica
          I thought there were blind spot trees right at one end. You have to come at 80 feet and drop in to the 1200 foot runway and if I remember, there is a leg at
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 2 9:37 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            I thought there were blind spot trees right at one end. You have to
            come at 80 feet and drop in to the 1200 foot runway and if I remember,
            there is a leg at which you can't see the runway (base, may be) and
            then its there on final again.
            Abid

            --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Shannon" <jsfcaf@...> wrote:
            >
            > ---
            > That runway is 1200' long by 100' wide, long enough for any LSA!
            >
            >
            > Eric
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Helen Woods <Helen_Woods@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > How long is the runway? With half tanks and a 10kt headwind I'm
            > close
            > > to pattern altitude at our 3000' runway in our Tecnam Echo Super.
            > >
            > > Helen
            > >
            > > Ralph wrote:
            > > > It's going to be interesting to see some of those LSA's takeoff
            > and
            > > > land with two people on that short runway. It's fine for an
            > > > ultralight, but kind of marginal for a 1300 lb plane.
            > > >
            > > > Ralph
            > > >
            > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica"
            > > > <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >> Oh yeah ...I walked also. Its freaking far.
            > > >> And also the UL area was DEAD. How do they expect to guide
            > people
            > > >>
            > > > back
            > > >
            > > >> to the UL area when the show has established that for the last 3
            > > >>
            > > > years
            > > >
            > > >> that area has been dying a slow death and they have not done
            > > >>
            > > > anything
            > > >
            > > >> to change that. I guess you are saying that when LSA's are all
            > moved
            > > >> there, it will be revived but I am not so sure all LSA's are
            > being
            > > >> moved there. I don't think there is a rule that says that if you
            > are
            > > >> displaying a LSA, you must be in this area. Looking at it last
            > > >>
            > > > year, I
            > > >
            > > >> wouldn't blame any vendor to "not" want to be in that area and
            > pay
            > > >>
            > > > for it.
            > > >
            > > >> Abid
            > > >>
            > > >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Helen Woods <Helen_Woods@>
            > > >> wrote:
            > > >>
            > > >>> I hadn't heard about the LSA mall decision but I actually think
            > it
            > > >>>
            > > >> would
            > > >>
            > > >>> be a good move to move the LSAs over to the ultralight area.
            > > >>>
            > > > Why?
            > > >
            > > >> LSAs
            > > >>
            > > >>> were and will continue to be a HUGE and GROWING part of OSH.
            > The
            > > >>>
            > > > mall
            > > >
            > > >>> could not and cannot accomdate all of the vendors thenselves in
            > > >>>
            > > > its
            > > >
            > > >>> prime location at the front door to the event. Instead, each
            > of
            > > >>>
            > > > the
            > > >
            > > >>> major vendors was asked to place a sample plane in the mall.
            > For
            > > >>>
            > > > many
            > > >
            > > >>> of these smaller companies, this presented a major staffing
            > issue
            > > >>>
            > > > since
            > > >
            > > >>> they had to man both their main display, and their aircraft in
            > > >>>
            > > > the
            > > >
            > > >>> mall. They didn't have the man power they needed to spend
            > > >>>
            > > > adequate
            > > >
            > > >> time
            > > >>
            > > >>> with customers or let people climb in while manning two
            > separate
            > > >>> locations. Additionally, some of the LSAs ended up down in the
            > > >>> ultralight area and others in the home built area anyway making
            > > >>>
            > > > it
            > > >
            > > >>> difficult to see all of the types which had come. Placing all
            > of
            > > >>>
            > > > the
            > > >
            > > >>> LSAs in the ultralight area where there is plenty of room for
            > > >>>
            > > > everyone
            > > >
            > > >>> to spread out and put all of the LSAs together just makes sense.
            > > >>>
            > > >>> Finally, placing the LSAs down in the ultralight area means we
            > > >>>
            > > > might
            > > >
            > > >>> potentially be able to take demo flights in the LSAs, something
            > > >>>
            > > > that is
            > > >
            > > >>> not feasible in the other areas. The main runways at OSH are
            > the
            > > >>> busiest in the world just with people coming and going.
            > There's
            > > >>>
            > > > no way
            > > >
            > > >>> to accommodate demo flights off the main runways. Even if
            > there
            > > >>>
            > > > were,
            > > >
            > > >>> it would be just about impossible for vendors to get their
            > planes
            > > >>>
            > > > from
            > > >
            > > >>> their tightly cramped mall booths out to the runways. The
            > > >>>
            > > > ultralight
            > > >
            > > >>> runway by contrast is open in the mornings and evenings for
            > > >>>
            > > > people to
            > > >
            > > >>> "beat up the pattern" with plenty of access from the booths to
            > it
            > > >>>
            > > > and
            > > >
            > > >>> would potentially afford a chance to demo aircraft.
            > > >>>
            > > >>> As for your complaint about trollies, have you ever considered
            > > >>>
            > > >> walking?
            > > >>
            > > >>> It's not that far, and the exercise might do you good and even
            > > >>>
            > > > give you
            > > >
            > > >>> a few extra pounds of spare useful load in that snazzy new LSA
            > > >>>
            > > > you plan
            > > >
            > > >>> on coming home with. If you insist upon riding, two trollies,
            > > >>>
            > > > the
            > > >
            > > >>> yellow and blue, will take you the bulk of the way. You only
            > > >>>
            > > > need a
            > > >
            > > >>> third trollie if you insist upon being dropped off immediately
            > in
            > > >>>
            > > > front
            > > >
            > > >>> of the runway. They also have scooters available to rent.
            > > >>>
            > > >>> Helen
            > > >>>
            > > >>> apollonorthamerica wrote:
            > > >>>
            > > >>>> Oshkosh is a slightly bigger show. However, in all their wisdom
            > > >>>> Oshkosh has decided to have "NO" LSA mall this year. They
            > would
            > > >>>>
            > > > like
            > > >
            > > >>>> light aircraft to go to their previous ultralight area, I
            > > >>>>
            > > > guess. That
            > > >
            > > >>>> area is DEAD. Its completely out of the way of the rest of the
            > > >>>>
            > > > show.
            > > >
            > > >>>> You need to change trolies 4 times before you get there. I hope
            > > >>>> someone at Oshkosh wakes up and smells the coffee.
            > > >>>> If you are looking at LSA ... Sun N Fun is THE place to be.
            > > >>>> Abid
            > > >>>>
            > > >>>> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Mark Hancock <selah44@>
            > > >>>>
            > > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > >>>>
            > > >>>>
            > > >>>>> Helen and or others,
            > > >>>>> I attended Sun N Fun last year and really enjoyed it and was
            > > >>>>>
            > > >> planning
            > > >>
            > > >>>>> to go there again.
            > > >>>>> In your opinion, is Oshkosh that much better for me to change
            > > >>>>>
            > > >> plans?
            > > >>
            > > >>>>> Thanks
            > > >>>>>
            > > >>>>> On Jan 30, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Helen Woods wrote:
            > > >>>>>
            > > >>>>>
            > > >>>>>
            > > >>>>>> For those of you who may not have attended your first Oshkosh
            > > >>>>>>
            > > >> yet, EAA
            > > >>
            > > >>>>>> now has a nice video clip that touches well upon the
            > > >>>>>>
            > > > excitement
            > > >
            > > >> of it:
            > > >>
            > > >>>>>> http://www.eaa.org/video/airventure.html?videoId=
            > > >>>>>>
            > > >>>>>>
            > > >>>>>>
            > > >>>>>>
            > > >>>>>>
            > > >>>>
            > > >>>>
            > > >>>>
            > > >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >>>>
            > > >>>>
            > > >>>>
            > > >>>>
            > > >>>>
            > > >>>>
            > > >>>>
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Wayne Bezner Kerr
            ... I have hundreds, if not thousands of operations on that runway in aircraft ranging from part 103 trikes to the CT. I can assure you that 40 average Sport
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 2 11:18 AM
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              Hello Group:

              > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Shannon" <jsfcaf@...>
              > wrote:
              >>
              >> ---
              >> That runway is 1200' long by 100' wide, long enough for any LSA!
              >>
              >>
              >> Eric


              I have hundreds, if not thousands of operations on that runway in
              aircraft ranging from part 103 trikes to the CT. I can assure you
              that 40 average Sport Pilot Flight Instructors, flying 40 typical
              LSAs from that strip for the busy schedule of Oshkosh for a week
              would result in a number of bent airplanes.

              Pilots who really know their aircraft, are not afraid to go around (I
              have probably 20 go-arounds on that strip too) and who exercise
              caution will enjoy it. However, the pattern for the grass at OSH is
              not like any traffic pattern I've seen anywhere else at north
              america. There is a slope to the short runway, zero over-run, a last
              minute turn from base to final at one end, and obstructions at the
              other.

              But it is a fun place to fly!

              Cheers,

              Wayne BK
            • Dan Grunloh
              ... Yes there is a blind spot from the south if you are too low. The runway is challenging from either direction but they definitely don t want you at 80 feet
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 5 8:58 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica"
                <apollonorthamerica@...> wrote:
                >
                > I thought there were blind spot trees right at one end. You have to
                > come at 80 feet and drop in to the 1200 foot runway and if I remember,
                > there is a leg at which you can't see the runway (base, may be) and
                > then its there on final again.
                > Abid

                Yes there is a blind spot from the south if you are too low.
                The runway is challenging from either direction but they definitely
                don't want you at 80 feet because the flaggers can't see you
                coming in. They want 200 (at least) when you cross over the
                Lone Oak Tree coming from the south. Total runway length is closer
                1600 feet but with a displaced threshold on both ends, you only have
                about 1200 usable for either landing or takeoff. Going slightly
                uphill to the north and fully loaded with a crosswind, an LSA should
                be able to lift off in about 800 feet to be safe on that runway.
                There may be some LSA planes that could not. In light winds they
                always run south operations which is downhill. A Champ landed there
                last year but was not permitted a takeoff attempt. He was relocated
                for operations from the main runway.

                --Dan



                >
                > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Shannon" <jsfcaf@> wrote:
                > >
                > > ---
                > > That runway is 1200' long by 100' wide, long enough for any LSA!
                > >
                > >
                > > Eric
                > >
              • Ralph
                The Champ that landed at Osh last summer was a friend of mine, John Glynn. The Champ he was flying was an LSA and labeled as such. He was not allowed to
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 5 9:07 AM
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                  The Champ that landed at Osh last summer was a friend of mine, John
                  Glynn. The Champ he was flying was an LSA and labeled as such. He was
                  not allowed to takeoff from the ultralight runway. They told him that
                  other vintage aircraft might see him and attempt to land.

                  Ralph

                  --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Grunloh" <dgrunloh@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica"
                  > <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I thought there were blind spot trees right at one end. You have
                  to
                  > > come at 80 feet and drop in to the 1200 foot runway and if I
                  remember,
                  > > there is a leg at which you can't see the runway (base, may be)
                  and
                  > > then its there on final again.
                  > > Abid
                  >
                  > Yes there is a blind spot from the south if you are too low.
                  > The runway is challenging from either direction but they definitely
                  > don't want you at 80 feet because the flaggers can't see you
                  > coming in. They want 200 (at least) when you cross over the
                  > Lone Oak Tree coming from the south. Total runway length is closer
                  > 1600 feet but with a displaced threshold on both ends, you only have
                  > about 1200 usable for either landing or takeoff. Going slightly
                  > uphill to the north and fully loaded with a crosswind, an LSA should
                  > be able to lift off in about 800 feet to be safe on that runway.
                  > There may be some LSA planes that could not. In light winds they
                  > always run south operations which is downhill. A Champ landed there
                  > last year but was not permitted a takeoff attempt. He was relocated
                  > for operations from the main runway.
                  >
                  > --Dan
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > >
                  > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Shannon" <jsfcaf@>
                  wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > ---
                  > > > That runway is 1200' long by 100' wide, long enough for any LSA!
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Eric
                  > > >
                  >
                • Dan Grunloh
                  ... Thanks Ralph, Is that the same John Glynn who is a triker from Wisconsin and who lives near the Corning Glass factory? Incidentally the UL/LightPlane
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 5 10:56 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph" <rstar447@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The Champ that landed at Osh last summer was a friend of mine, John
                    > Glynn. The Champ he was flying was an LSA and labeled as such. He was
                    > not allowed to takeoff from the ultralight runway. They told him that
                    > other vintage aircraft might see him and attempt to land.
                    >
                    > Ralph

                    Thanks Ralph,

                    Is that the same John Glynn who is a triker from Wisconsin
                    and who lives near the Corning Glass factory?

                    Incidentally the UL/LightPlane runway is not restricted
                    to any particular type of aircraft such as LSA. It could
                    be any type of registration though most in the past have
                    been amateur built. Any aircraft which can safely operate
                    there without hazard to the other aircraft "may" be permitted.
                    Don't expect to see the Helio Courior or anything too heavy
                    which could put ruts in the sod. A SeaRey was once asked to
                    leave when the pilot said he could not safely slow down to the
                    pattern speed limit of 75 MPH. Like a shark among the minnows
                    he was. I was one of the minnows.

                    --Dan



                    >
                    > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Grunloh" <dgrunloh@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica"
                    > > <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I thought there were blind spot trees right at one end. You have
                    > to
                    > > > come at 80 feet and drop in to the 1200 foot runway and if I
                    > remember,
                    > > > there is a leg at which you can't see the runway (base, may be)
                    > and
                    > > > then its there on final again.
                    > > > Abid
                    > >
                    > > Yes there is a blind spot from the south if you are too low.
                    > > The runway is challenging from either direction but they definitely
                    > > don't want you at 80 feet because the flaggers can't see you
                    > > coming in. They want 200 (at least) when you cross over the
                    > > Lone Oak Tree coming from the south. Total runway length is closer
                    > > 1600 feet but with a displaced threshold on both ends, you only have
                    > > about 1200 usable for either landing or takeoff. Going slightly
                    > > uphill to the north and fully loaded with a crosswind, an LSA should
                    > > be able to lift off in about 800 feet to be safe on that runway.
                    > > There may be some LSA planes that could not. In light winds they
                    > > always run south operations which is downhill. A Champ landed there
                    > > last year but was not permitted a takeoff attempt. He was relocated
                    > > for operations from the main runway.
                    > >
                    > > --Dan
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Shannon" <jsfcaf@>
                    > wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ---
                    > > > > That runway is 1200' long by 100' wide, long enough for any LSA!
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Eric
                    > > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Ralph
                    This John Glynn lives in the Twin Cities and is an avid ultralight and LSA pilot. He flies almost every day and can handle that Champ like none other. Ralph
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 5 11:50 AM
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                      This John Glynn lives in the Twin Cities and is an avid ultralight
                      and LSA pilot. He flies almost every day and can handle that Champ
                      like none other.

                      Ralph

                      --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Grunloh" <dgrunloh@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph" <rstar447@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > The Champ that landed at Osh last summer was a friend of mine,
                      John
                      > > Glynn. The Champ he was flying was an LSA and labeled as such. He
                      was
                      > > not allowed to takeoff from the ultralight runway. They told him
                      that
                      > > other vintage aircraft might see him and attempt to land.
                      > >
                      > > Ralph
                      >
                      > Thanks Ralph,
                      >
                      > Is that the same John Glynn who is a triker from Wisconsin
                      > and who lives near the Corning Glass factory?
                      >
                      > Incidentally the UL/LightPlane runway is not restricted
                      > to any particular type of aircraft such as LSA. It could
                      > be any type of registration though most in the past have
                      > been amateur built. Any aircraft which can safely operate
                      > there without hazard to the other aircraft "may" be permitted.
                      > Don't expect to see the Helio Courior or anything too heavy
                      > which could put ruts in the sod. A SeaRey was once asked to
                      > leave when the pilot said he could not safely slow down to the
                      > pattern speed limit of 75 MPH. Like a shark among the minnows
                      > he was. I was one of the minnows.
                      >
                      > --Dan
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Grunloh" <dgrunloh@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica"
                      > > > <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I thought there were blind spot trees right at one end. You
                      have
                      > > to
                      > > > > come at 80 feet and drop in to the 1200 foot runway and if I
                      > > remember,
                      > > > > there is a leg at which you can't see the runway (base, may
                      be)
                      > > and
                      > > > > then its there on final again.
                      > > > > Abid
                      > > >
                      > > > Yes there is a blind spot from the south if you are too low.
                      > > > The runway is challenging from either direction but they
                      definitely
                      > > > don't want you at 80 feet because the flaggers can't see you
                      > > > coming in. They want 200 (at least) when you cross over the
                      > > > Lone Oak Tree coming from the south. Total runway length is
                      closer
                      > > > 1600 feet but with a displaced threshold on both ends, you only
                      have
                      > > > about 1200 usable for either landing or takeoff. Going slightly
                      > > > uphill to the north and fully loaded with a crosswind, an LSA
                      should
                      > > > be able to lift off in about 800 feet to be safe on that runway.
                      > > > There may be some LSA planes that could not. In light winds
                      they
                      > > > always run south operations which is downhill. A Champ landed
                      there
                      > > > last year but was not permitted a takeoff attempt. He was
                      relocated
                      > > > for operations from the main runway.
                      > > >
                      > > > --Dan
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Shannon"
                      <jsfcaf@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > ---
                      > > > > > That runway is 1200' long by 100' wide, long enough for any
                      LSA!
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Eric
                      > > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
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