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unknown plane IDs

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  • Helen Woods
    A while back someone on this list was accusing the FAA of keeping LSAs with unknown IACO identifiers out of controlled airspace where a discrete squawk is
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 1, 2007
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      A while back someone on this list was accusing the FAA of keeping LSAs
      with unknown IACO identifiers out of controlled airspace where a
      discrete squawk is required. I think most of us realized this was
      nonsense but I for one wasn't sure how ATC would handle this, so I
      asked. The following is the response from Susan Hendenberg, one of the
      air traffic controllers at Potomac Tracon which serves the
      Baltimore/Washington/Richmond region:

      "We make it up! Seriously. We use EXP a lot for 'experimental' or
      airplanes that there are no identifiers for. Also, at each radar
      position, we have a data system with aircraft types and identifiers that
      we can look up. In the case of your sport aircraft, we use EXP. We only
      use the type aircraft for traffic advisories (tell the other guy what
      he/she's looking for) or wake turbulence separation. Sometimes we put
      HELO for helicopter, etc. There are no rules :-)

      Susan"
    • Gary Orpe
      That would be me, Helen. And that is good to know information you give us. Another of my concerns was filing a flight plan which is a little different, but
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 1, 2007
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        That would be me, Helen. And that is good to know information you give us.
        Another of my concerns was filing a flight plan which is a little different,
        but guess you could use exp with that as well and HXA.

        My biggest concern is that it will stay that way and not change later on.

        Gary O.
        N181RL
        -} =original text
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>

        -}-----Original Message-----
        -}From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
        -}[mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
        -}Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 4:17 AM
        -}To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
        -}Subject: [Sport_Aircraft] unknown plane IDs
        -}
        -}
        -}A while back someone on this list was accusing the FAA of
        -}keeping LSAs
        -}with unknown IACO identifiers out of controlled airspace where a
        -}discrete squawk is required. I think most of us realized this was
        -}nonsense but I for one wasn't sure how ATC would handle this, so I
        -}asked. The following is the response from Susan Hendenberg,
        -}one of the
        -}air traffic controllers at Potomac Tracon which serves the
        -}Baltimore/Washington/Richmond region:
        -}
        -}"We make it up! Seriously. We use EXP a lot for 'experimental' or
        -}airplanes that there are no identifiers for. Also, at each radar
        -}position, we have a data system with aircraft types and
        -}identifiers that
        -}we can look up. In the case of your sport aircraft, we use
        -}EXP. We only
        -}use the type aircraft for traffic advisories (tell the other guy what
        -}he/she's looking for) or wake turbulence separation. Sometimes we put
        -}HELO for helicopter, etc. There are no rules :-)
        -}
        -}Susan"
        -}
        -}
        -}
        -}
        -}Yahoo! Groups Links
        -}
        -}
        -}
        -}
      • Jim Bair
        ... A large factor in how you are treated is how you talk on the radio. That is a way bigger factor than whether they think you are an LSA or not. I think a
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 1, 2007
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          >A while back someone on this list was accusing the FAA of keeping LSAs
          > with unknown IACO identifiers out of controlled airspace where a
          > discrete squawk is required. I think most of us realized this was
          > nonsense but I for one wasn't sure how ATC would handle this, so I
          > asked. The following is the response from Susan Hendenberg, one of the
          > air traffic controllers at Potomac Tracon which serves the
          > Baltimore/Washington/Richmond region:
          >
          > "We make it up! Seriously. We use EXP a lot for 'experimental' or
          > airplanes that there are no identifiers for. Also, at each radar
          > position, we have a data system with aircraft types and identifiers that
          > we can look up. In the case of your sport aircraft, we use EXP. We only
          > use the type aircraft for traffic advisories (tell the other guy what
          > he/she's looking for) or wake turbulence separation. Sometimes we put
          > HELO for helicopter, etc. There are no rules :-)
          >
          > Susan"

          A large factor in how you are treated is how you talk on the radio. That is
          a way bigger factor than whether they think you are an LSA or not. I think
          a lot of people think they're getting picked on because they are flying an
          LSA, when in reality their radio procedures are so bad as to be unworkable
          in some environments. I made the mistake of taking a student to a local
          Class D field on a Saturday morning forgetting that they are very busy on
          Sat and Sun mornings because it is a popular place for pilots to get
          breakfast. The tower controller basically kicked us off the field because
          the student just couldn't do the radio work and I didn't have a push to talk
          in the back seat.

          The FAA cannot keep LSA's out of controlled airspace. I fought that battle
          with a Class D field and won. However, I didn't have the moral high ground
          in this fight so quietly left without arguing. Next time I go back there, I
          will be in the front seat and I will purposely go at a busy time to
          demonstrate that LSA's can fit in with faster GA airplanes because I don't
          want the precedent set that they think they can arbitrarily keep LSA's out
          of controlled airspace or kick us out at a whim.

          Jim
        • Herb Kushner
          Leave it to Jim Bair :-) He picked a dicey subject and came up up with what is probably the exact answer!! Radio technique and not type is what keeps
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 1, 2007
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            Leave it to Jim Bair :-)

            He picked a "dicey" subject and came up up with what is probably the
            exact answer!! Radio technique and not type is what keeps people
            out of airspace.

            I fly in some of the worlds busiest airspace (New York Metro)and I
            frequent the Class B (New York and Phila), Class C (Allentown,
            Hartford and Long Island)and Class D (Trenton, Morristown, Caldwell,
            Stewart,etc.) Whether I'm in the RV, the Citabria, the Breezy, the
            Champ or whatever. I almost never have a problem, BUT, I am very
            familiar with proper radio procedure, and once I ask permission to
            enter... I act like an instrument pilot with regards to holding
            altitudes and headings and with respect to radio procedure. The
            fact that the Champ has no transponder doesn't even seem to be a
            problem as long as I report on the initial request "negative
            transponder" and ask for the clearance anyway.

            I've had the same problem he had with no push to talk in the back
            seat... but now I stay away during the busy times if I'm flying with
            someone who may not sound "professional enough" for them. After
            we've had a bunch of trips and are getting more familiar with
            the "lingo" we start going when it's busier and busier.

            How you come across is much more important than what you are
            requesting and if they think you will be a "pain in the neck" they
            will surely send you packing (they did that a lot to me back in the
            early seventies)
            Herb K (47N and KSMQ)



            --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Bair" <JimBair@...>
            wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > >A while back someone on this list was accusing the FAA of keeping
            LSAs
            > > with unknown IACO identifiers out of controlled airspace where a
            > > discrete squawk is required. I think most of us realized this
            was
            > > nonsense but I for one wasn't sure how ATC would handle this, so
            I
            > > asked. The following is the response from Susan Hendenberg, one
            of the
            > > air traffic controllers at Potomac Tracon which serves the
            > > Baltimore/Washington/Richmond region:
            > >
            > > "We make it up! Seriously. We use EXP a lot for 'experimental' or
            > > airplanes that there are no identifiers for. Also, at each radar
            > > position, we have a data system with aircraft types and
            identifiers that
            > > we can look up. In the case of your sport aircraft, we use EXP.
            We only
            > > use the type aircraft for traffic advisories (tell the other guy
            what
            > > he/she's looking for) or wake turbulence separation. Sometimes
            we put
            > > HELO for helicopter, etc. There are no rules :-)
            > >
            > > Susan"
            >
            > A large factor in how you are treated is how you talk on the
            radio. That is
            > a way bigger factor than whether they think you are an LSA or
            not. I think
            > a lot of people think they're getting picked on because they are
            flying an
            > LSA, when in reality their radio procedures are so bad as to be
            unworkable
            > in some environments. I made the mistake of taking a student to a
            local
            > Class D field on a Saturday morning forgetting that they are very
            busy on
            > Sat and Sun mornings because it is a popular place for pilots to
            get
            > breakfast. The tower controller basically kicked us off the field
            because
            > the student just couldn't do the radio work and I didn't have a
            push to talk
            > in the back seat.
            >
            > The FAA cannot keep LSA's out of controlled airspace. I fought
            that battle
            > with a Class D field and won. However, I didn't have the moral
            high ground
            > in this fight so quietly left without arguing. Next time I go
            back there, I
            > will be in the front seat and I will purposely go at a busy time
            to
            > demonstrate that LSA's can fit in with faster GA airplanes because
            I don't
            > want the precedent set that they think they can arbitrarily keep
            LSA's out
            > of controlled airspace or kick us out at a whim.
            >
            > Jim
            >
          • mikehuckle
            ... of the ... identifiers that ... only ... That is ... I think ... flying an ... unworkable ... local ... busy on ... because ... to talk ... battle ...
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 1, 2007
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              "Jim Bair" <JimBair@...> wrote:

              > >A while back someone on this list was accusing the FAA of keeping LSAs
              > > with unknown IACO identifiers out of controlled airspace where a
              > > discrete squawk is required. I think most of us realized this was
              > > nonsense but I for one wasn't sure how ATC would handle this, so I
              > > asked. The following is the response from Susan Hendenberg, one
              of the
              > > air traffic controllers at Potomac Tracon which serves the
              > > Baltimore/Washington/Richmond region:
              > >
              > > "We make it up! Seriously. We use EXP a lot for 'experimental' or
              > > airplanes that there are no identifiers for. Also, at each radar
              > > position, we have a data system with aircraft types and
              identifiers that
              > > we can look up. In the case of your sport aircraft, we use EXP. We
              only
              > > use the type aircraft for traffic advisories (tell the other guy what
              > > he/she's looking for) or wake turbulence separation. Sometimes we put
              > > HELO for helicopter, etc. There are no rules :-)
              > >
              > > Susan"

              > A large factor in how you are treated is how you talk on the radio.
              That is
              > a way bigger factor than whether they think you are an LSA or not.
              I think
              > a lot of people think they're getting picked on because they are
              flying an
              > LSA, when in reality their radio procedures are so bad as to be
              unworkable
              > in some environments. I made the mistake of taking a student to a
              local
              > Class D field on a Saturday morning forgetting that they are very
              busy on
              > Sat and Sun mornings because it is a popular place for pilots to get
              > breakfast. The tower controller basically kicked us off the field
              because
              > the student just couldn't do the radio work and I didn't have a push
              to talk
              > in the back seat.
              >
              > The FAA cannot keep LSA's out of controlled airspace. I fought that
              battle
              > with a Class D field and won. However, I didn't have the moral high
              ground
              > in this fight so quietly left without arguing. Next time I go back
              there, I
              > will be in the front seat and I will purposely go at a busy time to
              > demonstrate that LSA's can fit in with faster GA airplanes because I
              don't
              > want the precedent set that they think they can arbitrarily keep
              LSA's out
              > of controlled airspace or kick us out at a whim.
              > Jim


              ;-) I've always assumed it helps tremendously
              to "sound like an airline pilot" on the radio.

              I can't imagine I'll ever fool anyone, though.

              Cheers!
              Mike
              (experimental-trike-pilot)
            • Jim Bair
              ;-) I ve always assumed it helps tremendously to sound like an airline pilot on the radio. I can t imagine I ll ever fool anyone, though. Cheers! Mike
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 1, 2007
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                ;-) I've always assumed it helps tremendously
                to "sound like an airline pilot" on the radio.

                I can't imagine I'll ever fool anyone, though.

                Cheers!
                Mike
                (experimental-trike-pilot)

                *You* didn't get kicked out of Janesville, so apparently you were good
                enough. :)

                Jim
              • Helen Woods
                I fully agree with that one! The only person I have ever heard thrown out of controlled airspace was a commercial pilot in a Cessna flying traffic reporting.
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 1, 2007
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                  I fully agree with that one! The only person I have ever heard thrown
                  out of controlled airspace was a commercial pilot in a Cessna flying
                  traffic reporting. After missing numerous calls, ATC tossed him out
                  stating that they couldn't allow him in the Bravo if he couldn't listen
                  up for traffic calls.

                  Helen

                  Jim Bair wrote:
                  >
                  >> A while back someone on this list was accusing the FAA of keeping LSAs
                  >> with unknown IACO identifiers out of controlled airspace where a
                  >> discrete squawk is required. I think most of us realized this was
                  >> nonsense but I for one wasn't sure how ATC would handle this, so I
                  >> asked. The following is the response from Susan Hendenberg, one of the
                  >> air traffic controllers at Potomac Tracon which serves the
                  >> Baltimore/Washington/Richmond region:
                  >>
                  >> "We make it up! Seriously. We use EXP a lot for 'experimental' or
                  >> airplanes that there are no identifiers for. Also, at each radar
                  >> position, we have a data system with aircraft types and identifiers that
                  >> we can look up. In the case of your sport aircraft, we use EXP. We only
                  >> use the type aircraft for traffic advisories (tell the other guy what
                  >> he/she's looking for) or wake turbulence separation. Sometimes we put
                  >> HELO for helicopter, etc. There are no rules :-)
                  >>
                  >> Susan"
                  >>
                  >
                  > A large factor in how you are treated is how you talk on the radio. That is
                  > a way bigger factor than whether they think you are an LSA or not. I think
                  > a lot of people think they're getting picked on because they are flying an
                  > LSA, when in reality their radio procedures are so bad as to be unworkable
                  > in some environments. I made the mistake of taking a student to a local
                  > Class D field on a Saturday morning forgetting that they are very busy on
                  > Sat and Sun mornings because it is a popular place for pilots to get
                  > breakfast. The tower controller basically kicked us off the field because
                  > the student just couldn't do the radio work and I didn't have a push to talk
                  > in the back seat.
                  >
                  > The FAA cannot keep LSA's out of controlled airspace. I fought that battle
                  > with a Class D field and won. However, I didn't have the moral high ground
                  > in this fight so quietly left without arguing. Next time I go back there, I
                  > will be in the front seat and I will purposely go at a busy time to
                  > demonstrate that LSA's can fit in with faster GA airplanes because I don't
                  > want the precedent set that they think they can arbitrarily keep LSA's out
                  > of controlled airspace or kick us out at a whim.
                  >
                  > Jim
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Helen Woods
                  I don t think you have to worry about ATC changing their minds. We in the DC area have quite a bit of personal contact with our local controllers (thanks in
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 1, 2007
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                    I don't think you have to worry about ATC "changing their minds." We in
                    the DC area have quite a bit of personal contact with our local
                    controllers (thanks in part to the dreaded ADIZ) and I think you'll find
                    an agreement in the local pilot community that ATC is really a pilot
                    advocate and support group out their trying to make our flights more
                    efficient and safer.

                    I'll look into the flight plans if you like. Is the LSA in question an
                    Experimental or SLSA?

                    Helen

                    Gary Orpe wrote:
                    > That would be me, Helen. And that is good to know information you give us.
                    > Another of my concerns was filing a flight plan which is a little different,
                    > but guess you could use exp with that as well and HXA.
                    >
                    > My biggest concern is that it will stay that way and not change later on.
                    >
                    > Gary O.
                    > N181RL
                    > -} =original text
                    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
                    >
                    > -}-----Original Message-----
                    > -}From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
                    > -}[mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
                    > -}Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 4:17 AM
                    > -}To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
                    > -}Subject: [Sport_Aircraft] unknown plane IDs
                    > -}
                    > -}
                    > -}A while back someone on this list was accusing the FAA of
                    > -}keeping LSAs
                    > -}with unknown IACO identifiers out of controlled airspace where a
                    > -}discrete squawk is required. I think most of us realized this was
                    > -}nonsense but I for one wasn't sure how ATC would handle this, so I
                    > -}asked. The following is the response from Susan Hendenberg,
                    > -}one of the
                    > -}air traffic controllers at Potomac Tracon which serves the
                    > -}Baltimore/Washington/Richmond region:
                    > -}
                    > -}"We make it up! Seriously. We use EXP a lot for 'experimental' or
                    > -}airplanes that there are no identifiers for. Also, at each radar
                    > -}position, we have a data system with aircraft types and
                    > -}identifiers that
                    > -}we can look up. In the case of your sport aircraft, we use
                    > -}EXP. We only
                    > -}use the type aircraft for traffic advisories (tell the other guy what
                    > -}he/she's looking for) or wake turbulence separation. Sometimes we put
                    > -}HELO for helicopter, etc. There are no rules :-)
                    > -}
                    > -}Susan"
                    > -}
                    > -}
                    > -}
                    > -}
                    > -}Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > -}
                    > -}
                    > -}
                    > -}
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Gary Orpe
                    The instrument panel shown there is actually mine. www.eurofox-usa.com Gary O. N181RL -} =original text ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -}-----Original
                    Message 9 of 11 , Dec 1, 2007
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                      The instrument panel shown there is actually mine.

                      www.eurofox-usa.com

                      Gary O.
                      N181RL
                      -} =original text
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>

                      -}-----Original Message-----
                      -}From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
                      -}[mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
                      -}Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 3:22 PM
                      -}To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
                      -}Subject: Re: [Sport_Aircraft] unknown plane IDs
                      -}
                      -}
                      -}I don't think you have to worry about ATC "changing their
                      -}minds." We in
                      -}the DC area have quite a bit of personal contact with our local
                      -}controllers (thanks in part to the dreaded ADIZ) and I think
                      -}you'll find
                      -}an agreement in the local pilot community that ATC is really a pilot
                      -}advocate and support group out their trying to make our flights more
                      -}efficient and safer.
                      -}
                      -}I'll look into the flight plans if you like. Is the LSA in
                      -}question an
                      -}Experimental or SLSA?
                      -}
                      -}Helen
                      -}
                      -}Gary Orpe wrote:
                      -}> That would be me, Helen. And that is good to know
                      -}information you give us.
                      -}> Another of my concerns was filing a flight plan which is a
                      -}little different,
                      -}> but guess you could use exp with that as well and HXA.
                      -}>
                      -}> My biggest concern is that it will stay that way and not
                      -}change later on.
                      -}>
                      -}> Gary O.
                      -}> N181RL
                      -}> -} =original text
                      -}> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
                      -}>
                      -}> -}-----Original Message-----
                      -}> -}From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
                      -}> -}[mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
                      -}> -}Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 4:17 AM
                      -}> -}To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
                      -}> -}Subject: [Sport_Aircraft] unknown plane IDs
                      -}> -}
                      -}> -}
                      -}> -}A while back someone on this list was accusing the FAA of
                      -}> -}keeping LSAs
                      -}> -}with unknown IACO identifiers out of controlled airspace where a
                      -}> -}discrete squawk is required. I think most of us realized
                      -}this was
                      -}> -}nonsense but I for one wasn't sure how ATC would handle
                      -}this, so I
                      -}> -}asked. The following is the response from Susan Hendenberg,
                      -}> -}one of the
                      -}> -}air traffic controllers at Potomac Tracon which serves the
                      -}> -}Baltimore/Washington/Richmond region:
                      -}> -}
                      -}> -}"We make it up! Seriously. We use EXP a lot for 'experimental' or
                      -}> -}airplanes that there are no identifiers for. Also, at each radar
                      -}> -}position, we have a data system with aircraft types and
                      -}> -}identifiers that
                      -}> -}we can look up. In the case of your sport aircraft, we use
                      -}> -}EXP. We only
                      -}> -}use the type aircraft for traffic advisories (tell the
                      -}other guy what
                      -}> -}he/she's looking for) or wake turbulence separation.
                      -}Sometimes we put
                      -}> -}HELO for helicopter, etc. There are no rules :-)
                      -}> -}
                      -}> -}Susan"
                      -}> -}
                      -}> -}
                      -}> -}
                      -}> -}
                      -}> -}Yahoo! Groups Links
                      -}> -}
                      -}> -}
                      -}> -}
                      -}> -}
                      -}>
                      -}>
                      -}>
                      -}>
                      -}>
                      -}> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      -}>
                      -}>
                      -}>
                      -}>
                      -}>
                      -}>
                      -}
                      -}
                      -}
                      -}
                      -}Yahoo! Groups Links
                      -}
                      -}
                      -}
                      -}
                    • Ed Burkhead
                      ... When coming in flying a no-transponder plane, I found it was also VERY helpful to find one of the little flags on the sectional for VFR landmarks. I d read
                      Message 10 of 11 , Dec 2, 2007
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                        Herb wrote:
                        > The fact that the Champ has no transponder doesn't even seem
                        > to be a problem as long as I report on the initial request "negative
                        > transponder" and ask for the clearance anyway.

                        When coming in flying a no-transponder plane, I found it was also VERY
                        helpful to find one of the little flags on the sectional for VFR landmarks.
                        I'd read that those flagged landmarks are marked on the radar screens.

                        I plan it so my first call to ATC includes "no transponder" and my position
                        (always very close and usually directly above) relative to the marked
                        landmark.

                        This resulted in immediate identification with hardly ever an identification
                        turn needed.

                        It also seemed to lead to good service from ATC.

                        Ed
                      • Helen Woods
                        EFOX
                        Message 11 of 11 , Dec 4, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          EFOX

                          Gary Orpe wrote:
                          > The instrument panel shown there is actually mine.
                          >
                          > www.eurofox-usa.com
                          >
                          > Gary O.
                          > N181RL
                          > -} =original text
                          > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
                          >
                          > -}-----Original Message-----
                          > -}From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
                          > -}[mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
                          > -}Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 3:22 PM
                          > -}To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
                          > -}Subject: Re: [Sport_Aircraft] unknown plane IDs
                          > -}
                          > -}
                          > -}I don't think you have to worry about ATC "changing their
                          > -}minds." We in
                          > -}the DC area have quite a bit of personal contact with our local
                          > -}controllers (thanks in part to the dreaded ADIZ) and I think
                          > -}you'll find
                          > -}an agreement in the local pilot community that ATC is really a pilot
                          > -}advocate and support group out their trying to make our flights more
                          > -}efficient and safer.
                          > -}
                          > -}I'll look into the flight plans if you like. Is the LSA in
                          > -}question an
                          > -}Experimental or SLSA?
                          > -}
                          > -}Helen
                          > -}
                          > -}Gary Orpe wrote:
                          > -}> That would be me, Helen. And that is good to know
                          > -}information you give us.
                          > -}> Another of my concerns was filing a flight plan which is a
                          > -}little different,
                          > -}> but guess you could use exp with that as well and HXA.
                          > -}>
                          > -}> My biggest concern is that it will stay that way and not
                          > -}change later on.
                          > -}>
                          > -}> Gary O.
                          > -}> N181RL
                          > -}> -} =original text
                          > -}> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
                          > -}>
                          > -}> -}-----Original Message-----
                          > -}> -}From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
                          > -}> -}[mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
                          > -}> -}Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 4:17 AM
                          > -}> -}To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
                          > -}> -}Subject: [Sport_Aircraft] unknown plane IDs
                          > -}> -}
                          > -}> -}
                          > -}> -}A while back someone on this list was accusing the FAA of
                          > -}> -}keeping LSAs
                          > -}> -}with unknown IACO identifiers out of controlled airspace where a
                          > -}> -}discrete squawk is required. I think most of us realized
                          > -}this was
                          > -}> -}nonsense but I for one wasn't sure how ATC would handle
                          > -}this, so I
                          > -}> -}asked. The following is the response from Susan Hendenberg,
                          > -}> -}one of the
                          > -}> -}air traffic controllers at Potomac Tracon which serves the
                          > -}> -}Baltimore/Washington/Richmond region:
                          > -}> -}
                          > -}> -}"We make it up! Seriously. We use EXP a lot for 'experimental' or
                          > -}> -}airplanes that there are no identifiers for. Also, at each radar
                          > -}> -}position, we have a data system with aircraft types and
                          > -}> -}identifiers that
                          > -}> -}we can look up. In the case of your sport aircraft, we use
                          > -}> -}EXP. We only
                          > -}> -}use the type aircraft for traffic advisories (tell the
                          > -}other guy what
                          > -}> -}he/she's looking for) or wake turbulence separation.
                          > -}Sometimes we put
                          > -}> -}HELO for helicopter, etc. There are no rules :-)
                          > -}> -}
                          > -}> -}Susan"
                          > -}> -}
                          > -}> -}
                          > -}> -}
                          > -}> -}
                          > -}> -}Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > -}> -}
                          > -}> -}
                          > -}> -}
                          > -}> -}
                          > -}>
                          > -}>
                          > -}>
                          > -}>
                          > -}>
                          > -}> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > -}>
                          > -}>
                          > -}>
                          > -}>
                          > -}>
                          > -}>
                          > -}
                          > -}
                          > -}
                          > -}
                          > -}Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > -}
                          > -}
                          > -}
                          > -}
                          >
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                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
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