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RE: [Sport_Aircraft] SLSA to ELSA

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  • Gary Orpe
    I know that the EuroFox is imported to this country unregistered. The importer, once the craft is here and set up, sets up the DAR registration and gets that
    Message 1 of 24 , Jul 31, 2007
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      I know that the EuroFox is imported to this country unregistered. The
      importer, once the craft is here and set up, sets up the DAR registration
      and gets that done. It would not be possible for the manufacturer to
      register from outside the country at the country of origin. If the plane can
      be caught before this happens you should be able to arrange this. When
      shopping on the west coast for the Allegro 2000, before I got my EF, I know
      that the dealer charged $3,000 for the registration and $1,800 for
      transportation from NC and some other price for the shipping to this
      country, on top of the base price. The importer, B Bar D Aviation in North
      Carolina (www.fantasyair.com) (www.fantasyairusa.com) distributes the craft,
      registered, to the dealers. This seems a common practice so be careful about
      advertised base prices and non recoverable dealer installations and
      checkouts. Not all dealers do this but most from what I have seen do. This
      way the craft can be made and sent to any country and that country would
      then register it when received. All however are certified to comply in the
      country of origin before shipment to the importer/distributors.

      So, given this information from my shopping around, I would believe one
      would be able to intervene somewhere in the dealer routine and get it
      registered the way you want it. However maybe not.

      Someone here is the importer for the craft. At this point is where it would
      be registered. I would imagine you would have to forego any warrantees. The
      usual process is:
      Ship from manufacturer-
      Received by importer-
      Preparations by importer-
      Ship to dealer add options-
      Sell to buyer with/without sales tax-
      If buyer has not paid sales tax then he pays for that later-

      In my case the importer, dealer and end seller is the same person/place and
      the above costs are included in the base price so I don't even know what
      they were. I mention this because I have been witness to it in practice. The
      web price RTF is not always what you pay for it.

      At any rate you can see that registration is all done by the staff here in
      this country as part of the sale and should be adjustable to the buyer's
      wishes.

      Gary O.
      N181RL
      -} =original text
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>

      -}-----Original Message-----
      -}From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
      -}[mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Williams
      -}Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 3:20 PM
      -}To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
      -}Subject: Re: [Sport_Aircraft] SLSA to ELSA
      -}
      -}
      -}
      -}My understanding is the factory is the one that registered
      -}the plane as S-LSA.
      -}So it shouldn't be too hard to have them register it as a
      -}E-LSA instead.
      -}Then you don't need to perform the downgrade.
      -}Also, a downgraded S-LSA has stricter inspection/maintenance
      -}requirements than a
      -}plane that started out as a E-LSA.
      -}
      -}R. Williams
      -}
      -}
      -}---------- Original Message -----------
      -}From: "Robert Laird" <rlaird@...>
      -}To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
      -}Sent: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:38:23 -0500
      -}Subject: Re: [Sport_Aircraft] SLSA to ELSA
      -}
      -}> I'm doing this from memory, but I'm pretty sure the regs allow you a
      -}> one-time-only "downgrade" of your SLSA to an ELSA. After
      -}you do that, you
      -}> can't undo it or ever register the plane any other way.
      -}>
      -}> -- Robert
      -}>
      -}> On 7/31/07, Rex <Rex@...> wrote:
      -}> >
      -}> >
      -}> > Can a SLSA be purchased from the manufacture but
      -}registered as an ELSA?
      -}> >
      -}> >
      -}------- End of Original Message -------
    • R.P.
      ... From: Rex To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 9:24 PM Subject: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: SLSA to ELSA ...
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 1, 2007
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Rex" <Rex@...>
        To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 9:24 PM
        Subject: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: SLSA to ELSA


        >I really don't see the plane being worth that much more if any after
        > owning it for many years. The plane I have now I've owned for 22
        > years. I don't buy a plane thinking oh I better worry about what it
        > will be worth 20 years from now.
        >
        > The SLSA must be maintained and inspected by a certificated repairman
        > with a LSA maintenance rating, an A&P, or an FAA authorized repair
        > station. Pilots can perform preventive maintenance only on SLSA.
        >
        > From what I see there is no restriction on who does the maintenance,
        > repair, or modification to an ELSA, so I can do all these things
        > regardless of whether I'm the builder or not. I successfully complete
        > the 16 hour training course for LSA Repairman Inspection and have my
        > plane added to my inspection certificate and I take care of my plane
        > for the next twenty years like I have done with my current other
        > plane.
        >

        I figured it was the annual condition inspection options that were making
        you lean towards "E"LSA. The 2 day repairman's class a helluva big benefit
        from the SP/LSA rules.
        Another BIG benefit is the 3 week course for "commercial use" SLSA's.
        Compared to the A&P requirement of 2 years and thousands of dollars, the 3
        week course is a godsend.

        What airplane are you looking at?
      • Bob Comperini
        ... Now careful, there! The FAA s regulations allow a repairman/maintenance to do the annual/100 hour inspections (thankfully), but its still completely up to
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 1, 2007
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          >Another BIG benefit is the 3 week course for "commercial use" SLSA's.
          >Compared to the A&P requirement of 2 years and thousands of dollars, the 3
          >week course is a godsend.

          Now careful, there! The FAA's regulations allow a repairman/maintenance to do the annual/100 hour inspections (thankfully), but its still completely up to the manufacturer, as to what (if any) repair/maintenance they will "allow" a repairman/maintenance to even do.


          --
          Bob Comperini
          e-mail: bob@...
          WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
        • R.P.
          ... From: Bob Comperini To: Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re:
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 1, 2007
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Bob Comperini" <bob@...>
            To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 11:52 AM
            Subject: Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: SLSA to ELSA


            >
            >>Another BIG benefit is the 3 week course for "commercial use" SLSA's.
            >>Compared to the A&P requirement of 2 years and thousands of dollars, the 3
            >>week course is a godsend.
            >
            > Now careful, there! The FAA's regulations allow a repairman/maintenance to
            > do the annual/100 hour >inspections (thankfully), but its still completely
            > up to the manufacturer, as to what (if any) >repair/maintenance they will
            > "allow" a repairman/maintenance to even do.

            Yeah... that's true. Have you personally run into any problems in this area?

            I'm still saying that the three week course is a great deal for someone who
            wants to get into the commercial end of aircraft maintenance without going
            to school for years to earn the right to take the written test that *might*
            allow you go to an eaxaminer and pay him to give the the practical test so
            he evaluate whether or not you know what you're doing. I got my license the
            old-fashioned way, you new guys have got it WAY easier ;)

            Rick
          • Gary Orpe
            Bob is correct. All work must be done in accordance with procedures from the manufacturer and by whom they think should do it. My manuals, approved by
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 1, 2007
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              Bob is correct. All work must be done in accordance with procedures from the
              manufacturer and by whom they think should do it. My manuals, approved by
              consensus standards, spell out 3 levels. One is the owner. Two is by
              Authorized personnel (A&P). Third is by the factory personnel only. The work
              is further defined as light or heavy. These items are ALL covered in the POH
              and Maintenance manuals that come with each craft. My maintenance manual is
              over one inch thick.

              There are 3 areas that all work must be recorded. One engine logbook. Two
              prop logbook. Three airframe logbook. A&P's will look for these specific
              logs. And any other logbooks supplied by the manufacturer. You may have
              TSO'ed avionics components besides the ELT and the Transponder. The last 2
              are also required inspection items.

              I just had mine done a week ago. Welcome to light GA, right?

              Gary O.
              N181RL
              -} =original text
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>

              -}-----Original Message-----
              -}From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
              -}[mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Comperini
              -}Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 11:53 AM
              -}To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
              -}Subject: Re: [Sport_Aircraft] Re: SLSA to ELSA
              -}
              -}
              -}
              -}>Another BIG benefit is the 3 week course for "commercial
              -}use" SLSA's.
              -}>Compared to the A&P requirement of 2 years and thousands of
              -}dollars, the 3
              -}>week course is a godsend.
              -}
              -}Now careful, there! The FAA's regulations allow a
              -}repairman/maintenance to do the annual/100 hour inspections
              -}(thankfully), but its still completely up to the
              -}manufacturer, as to what (if any) repair/maintenance they
              -}will "allow" a repairman/maintenance to even do.
              -}
              -}
              -}--
              -}Bob Comperini
              -}e-mail: bob@...
              -}WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
              -}
              -}
              -}
              -}
              -}Yahoo! Groups Links
              -}
              -}
              -}
              -}
            • Bob Comperini
              ... Yes and no.. We dont have an SLSA at our field, where I am prohibited from doing maintenance, but yes, there are manufacturer s who require additional
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 1, 2007
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                On 01:07 PM 8/1/2007, R.P. wrote:

                >Yeah... that's true. Have you personally run into any problems in this area?

                Yes and no.. We dont have an SLSA at our field, where I am prohibited from doing maintenance, but yes, there are manufacturer's who require "additional training" before maintenance items can be performed.





                --
                Bob Comperini
                e-mail: bob@...
                WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
              • Patrick Wilson
                I m looking at purchasing a flying Slipstream Genesis II registered as ELSA and wondered if anyone had any experience with it. The cabin is roomy and I need
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 7, 2007
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                  I'm looking at purchasing a flying Slipstream Genesis II registered as ELSA and wondered if anyone had any experience with it.  The cabin is roomy and I need the GW and EW it provides.  Any experiences good or bad I'd like to hear.
                   
                  Patrick


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                • Bob Comperini
                  ... Is this the plane? http://www.slipstream.bz/genesis_specifications.htm What s the difference between the Genesis, and their Revelation? Is this is the same
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 7, 2007
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                    On 03:31 AM 8/7/2007, Patrick Wilson wrote:
                    >I'm looking at purchasing a flying Slipstream Genesis II registered as ELSA and wondered if anyone had any experience with it. The cabin is roomy and I need the GW and EW it provides. Any experiences good or bad I'd like to hear.

                    Is this the plane? http://www.slipstream.bz/genesis_specifications.htm

                    What's the difference between the Genesis, and their Revelation?

                    Is this is the same plane, it appears to be very similar to the Revelation, although more enclosed. I'm training a guy right now, in a Revelation. Yeah, pretty nice... plenty of room. I found the rudder pedals a little stiff, but one gets used to that. Good docile flying qualities. The one I'm flying has the Rotax 582 in it.

                    Their website shows the Genesis having a 1400 gross weight. Makes me wonder how they registered it as an ELSA

                    --
                    Bob Comperini
                    e-mail: bob@...
                    WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
                  • Rex
                    There used to be an airplane made in Italy called the Toucan and it looks just like that Genesis. Is this the same plane just renamed for an international
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 7, 2007
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                      There used to be an airplane made in Italy called the Toucan and it
                      looks just like that Genesis. Is this the same plane just renamed for
                      an international market???









                      Bob Comperini <bob@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On 03:31 AM 8/7/2007, Patrick Wilson wrote:
                      > >I'm looking at purchasing a flying Slipstream Genesis II
                      registered as ELSA and wondered if anyone had any experience with
                      it. The cabin is roomy and I need the GW and EW it provides. Any
                      experiences good or bad I'd like to hear.
                      >
                      > Is this the plane?
                      http://www.slipstream.bz/genesis_specifications.htm
                      >
                      > What's the difference between the Genesis, and their Revelation?
                      >
                      > Is this is the same plane, it appears to be very similar to the
                      Revelation, although more enclosed. I'm training a guy right now, in
                      a Revelation. Yeah, pretty nice... plenty of room. I found the rudder
                      pedals a little stiff, but one gets used to that. Good docile flying
                      qualities. The one I'm flying has the Rotax 582 in it.
                      >
                      > Their website shows the Genesis having a 1400 gross weight. Makes
                      me wonder how they registered it as an ELSA
                      >
                      > --
                      > Bob Comperini
                      > e-mail: bob@...
                      > WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
                      >
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