## Challenge for statisticans

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• The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own list, based on rules
Message 1 of 16 , Apr 3, 2009
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The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own list, based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their" competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show the real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world wide to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39, 40-44, 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the list they have today.
• Which raises the eternal question as to how old a person is when he/she skates. If you use real age, one might end up in two different categories during one
Message 2 of 16 , Apr 3, 2009
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Which raises the eternal question as to how 'old' a person is when he/she skates.

If you use real age, one might end up in two different categories during one meet.

I agree that the list used by the IMSSG is complete bollocks, even races between

30+ skaters during a ISU world championship do not count in tyheir eyes.

Dirk Broer e-mail: Dirk_P_Broer@...

> To: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
> From: mortenhenriksen@...
> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 13:13:25 +0000
> Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
>
> The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own list, based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their" competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show the real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world wide to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39, 40-44, 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the list they have today.

_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• I will make these true lists some time during the coming days using the age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC) By the way I would prefer to use 30+,
Message 3 of 16 , Apr 3, 2009
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I will make these "true" lists some time during the coming days using the
age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC)
By the way I would prefer to use 30+, 35+, 40+, 45+ and so on

Preben
----- Original Message -----
From: "mor10_henriksen" <mortenhenriksen@...>
To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:13 PM
Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans

> The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of
> monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own list,
> based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their"
> competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show the
> real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years
> old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world wide
> to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year
> group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39, 40-44,
> 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the list
> they have today.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
• Preben, Thank you! Marian Furst ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Message 4 of 16 , Apr 3, 2009
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Preben,

Thank you!

Marian Furst

At 09:41 AM 4/3/2009, you wrote:

>I will make these "true" lists some time during the coming days using the
>age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC)
>By the way I would prefer to use 30+, 35+, 40+, 45+ and so on
>
>Preben
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "mor10_henriksen"
><<mailto:mortenhenriksen%40bluezone.no>mortenhenriksen@...>
>To: <<mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com>Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:13 PM
>Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
>
> > The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of
> > monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own list,
> > based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their"
> > competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show the
> > real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years
> > old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world wide
> > to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year
> > group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39, 40-44,
> > 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the list
> > they have today.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for a start. No guarantee whatsoever!! the age being defined as age reached during the
Message 5 of 16 , Apr 4, 2009
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Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for a
start. No guarantee whatsoever!!

the age being defined as age reached during the competition year 1st July
till 30th June

30-34
Jeremy Wotherspoon (CAN) 26-10-76 34,03 Salt Lake City 9-11-2007
Jeremy Wotherspoon (CAN) 26-10-76 1 07,03 Salt Lake City 11-11-2007
Erben Wennemars (NED) 01-11-75 1 42,32 Salt Lake City 9-11-2007
Eskil Ervik (NOR) 11-01-75 3 37,28 Calgary 5-11-2005
Carl Verheijen (NED) 26-05-75 6 08,98 Salt Lake City 19-11-2005
Carl Verheijen (NED) 26-05-75 12 55,30 Heerenveen 11-2-2007

Catriona Lemay-Doan (CAN) 23-12-70 37,22 Calgary 9-12-2001
Chiara Simionato (ITA) 04-07-75 1 13,47 Salt Lake City 11-11-2007
Anni Friesinger (GER) 11-01-77 1 53,09 Calgary 17-11-2007
Renate Groenewold (NED) 08-10-76 3 55,98 Calgary 16-11-2007
Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 6 46,91 Salt Lake City 23-2-2002
Clara Hughes (CAN) 27-09-72 14 19,73 Calgary 11-3-2005

35-39
Gerard van Velde (NED) 30-11-71 35,12 Calgary 3-3-2007
Derek Parra (USA) 15-03-70 1 09,04 Salt Lake City 20-11-2005
Derek Parra (USA) 15-03-70 1 44,78 Salt Lake City 18-11-2005
KC Boutiette (USA) 11-04-70 3 46,30 Salt Lake City 5-11-2005
Rintje Ritsma (NED) 13-04-70 6 20,26 Salt Lake City 19-11-2005
Kurt Wubben (NED) 24-04-72 13 14,31 Moskou 26-11-2006

Anzjelika Kotjuga (BLR) 25-05-70 37,75 Salt Lake City 22-1-2005
Anzjelika Kotjuga (BLR) 25-05-70 1 14,44 Salt Lake City 23-1-2005
Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 1 54,31 Calgary 17-11-2007
Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 3 58,76 Calgary 4-3-2007
Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 6 49,92 Moskou 22-11-2008
Marianne Gerrits (NED) 19-10-68 16 45,73 Collalbo 3-1-2008

40-44
Brian Boudreau (USA) 11-08-65 37,40 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
Brian Boudreau (USA) 11-08-65 1 13,51 Salt Lake City 28-10-2007
Benoit Lamarche (CAN) 07-07-66 1 53,85 Calgary 23-2-2007
Jan Duif (NED) 15-06-63 4 03,19 Calgary 22-2-2007
Martin Hänggi (SUI) 17-03-68 6 44,10 Calgary 17-11-2007
Jos Niesten (NED) 05-12-45 14 28,78 Heerenveen 17-12-1987

Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 41,55 Heerenveen 23-1-2009
Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 1 21,38 Calgary 25-2-2007
Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 2 06,76 Calgary 24-2-2007
Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 4 32,25 Calgary 22-3-1998
Janine Slootstra (NED) 30-11-66 8 00,62 Calgary 14-3-2007
Grit Mertens (GER) 02-02-68 17 21,72 Berlijn 9-3-2008

45-49
Pat Kelly (USA) 23-06-62 37,71 Calgary 23-2-2007
Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,66 Calgary 14-3-2004
Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 1 56,43 Milwaukee 25-10-2008
Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 4 05,75 Erfurt 1-3-2008
Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 6 59,54 Milwaukee 26-10-2008
Harry Schut (NED) 23-12-62 14 34,95 Heerenveen 17-3-2009

Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 42,39 Salt Lake City 20-12-2001
Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 1 23,32 Salt Lake City 22-12-2001
Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 2 09,20 Salt Lake City 21-3-2002
Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 4 32,61 Salt Lake City 22-3-2002
Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 7 48,60 Salt Lake City 23-12-2001
Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 16 54,58 Heerenveen 18-3-2005

50-54
Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 38,24 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,74 Calgary 24-3-2006
Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 57,62 Calgary 22-3-2006
Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 12,40 Calgary 11-3-2004
Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 7 16,57 Kolomna 9-3-2008
Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 15 05,31 Kolomna 8-4-2008

Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 44,82 Calgary 23-2-2007
Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 1 28,19 Calgary 25-2-2007
Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 2 14,96 Calgary 24-2-2007
Galina Petrova-Blinkova (RUS) 02-10-56 4 38,47 Calgary 25-2-2007
Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 8 34,59 Haarlem 30-12-2007
Manja Bunschoten (NED) 23-06-55 19 05,10 Amsterdam 24-2-2008

55-59
Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 40,25 Salt Lake City 28-2-2009
Brynjulf Måkestad (NOR) 17-12-51 1 22,15 Calgary 15-3-2008
Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 2 01,70 Calgary 23-2-2007
Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 17,94 Calgary 22-2-2007
Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005
Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 15 29,96 Heerenveen 21-3-2007

Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 46,95 Heerenveen 16-2-2006
Anjo Mensinga (NED) 19-01-51 1 33,19 Calgary 25-2-2007
Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 2 24,45 Heerenveen 26-1-2004
Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 4 56,48 Calgary 25-2-2007
Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 8 24,50 Heerenveen 23-3-2004
Marian Furst (USA) 12-01-50 18 53,18 Salt Lake City 17-3-2007

60-64
Alf Gjølga (NOR) 01-04-46 42,35 Hamar 9-2-2008
Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 1 23,49 Heerenveen 24-1-2006
Kees Verdouw (NED) 22-07-44 2 04,95 Calgary 23-2-2007
Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 4 21,10 Calgary 24-2-2007
Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 7 32,47 Calgary 25-2-2007
Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 15 45,25 Heerenveen 24-3-2003

Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 47,39 Heerenveen 13-3-2008
Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 1 33,01 Calgary 23-2-2007
Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 2 20,69 Calgary 23-2-2007
Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 4 48,14 Calgary 23-2-2007
Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 8 21,55 Heerenveen 21-3-2007
Ragnhild Collin-Hansen (NOR) 22-02-48 31 07,8 Bjugn 8-3-2008

65-69
Svein Bruket (NOR) 06-10-42 43,82 Calgary 15-3-2008
Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 1 26,28 Erfurt 2-3-2008
Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 2 09,64 Heerenveen 21-3-2008
Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 4 38,59 Erfurt 2-3-2008
Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 7 47,59 Heerenveen 19-3-2008
Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 16,51 Heerenveen 10-3-2008

Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 53,29 Inzell 15-2-2009
Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 1 46,51 Inzell 15-2-2009
Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 2 42,11 Calgary 23-2-2007
Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 5 27,38 Calgary 25-2-2007

70-74
Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 45,18 Calgary 21-3-2009
Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 1 30,48 Calgary 21-3-2009
Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 2 17,68 Calgary 20-3-2009
Arne Kjell Foldvik (NOR) 17-12-34 4 54,57 Calgary 25-2-2007
Ludwig Meijering (NED) 08-02-36 8 32,03 Heerenveen 10-3-2008
Jan Vereecken (NED) 15-02-34 17 29,93 Heerenveen 23-3-2004

Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 53,40 Kolomna 31-1-2007
Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 1 46,07 Kolomna 1-4-2007
Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 2 48,97 Kolomna 31-3-2007
Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 5 52,89 Kolomna 15-3-2009

75-79
Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 47,37 Calgary 23-2-2007
Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 1 35,18 Calgary 24-2-2007
Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 2 26,93 Calgary 23-2-2007
Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 5 06,99 Berlijn 18-2-2007
Lars B O Eskeland (NOR) 23-01-32 9 34,33 Hamar 9-2-2008
Lars B O Eskeland (NOR) 23-01-32 19 37,85 Hamar 10-2-2008

Natalja Dontsjenko (RUS) 25-08-32 68,58 Kolomna 7-4-2008
Natalja Dontsjenko (RUS) 25-08-32 2 28,14 Kolomna 8-4-2008
Agatha van der Starre (CAN) 1930 3 50,26 Calgary 24-2-2007

80-84
Arne Svanberg (NOR) 01-06-24 56,20 Hamar 22-2-2004
Arne Svanberg (NOR) 01-06-24 1 52,06 Hamar 22-2-2004
Henk Schueler (NED) 28-05-22 3 04,24 Eindhoven 10-3-2002
Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 6 36,67 Hamar 27-1-2002
Roy Whitney (CAN) 30-12-27 12 08,60 Calgary 19-3-2009

85-89
Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 65,08 Calgary 23-2-2007
Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 2 25,8 Helsinki 4-3-2006
Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 3 35,57 Calgary 24-2-2007
Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 7 38,04 Calgary 26-2-2007

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marian Furst" <mfurst4@...>
To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans

> Preben,
>
> Thank you!
>
> Marian Furst
>
>
> At 09:41 AM 4/3/2009, you wrote:
>
>>I will make these "true" lists some time during the coming days using the
>>age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC)
>>By the way I would prefer to use 30+, 35+, 40+, 45+ and so on
>>
>>Preben
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "mor10_henriksen"
>><<mailto:mortenhenriksen%40bluezone.no>mortenhenriksen@...>
>>To:
>><<mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com>Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
>>Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:13 PM
>>Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
>>
>> > The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of
>> > monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own
>> > list,
>> > based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their"
>> > competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show
>> > the
>> > real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years
>> > old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world
>> > wide
>> > to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year
>> > group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39,
>> > 40-44,
>> > 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the list
>> > they have today.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
• ... From: Marcel Warnaar To: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans Preben will
Message 6 of 16 , Apr 4, 2009
• 0 Attachment
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcel Warnaar
To: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans

Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for a
start. No guarantee whatsoever!!

the age being defined as age reached during the competition year 1st July
till 30th June

50-54
Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 38,24 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,74 Calgary 24-3-2006
Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 57,62 Calgary 22-3-2006
Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 12,40 Calgary 11-3-2004
Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 7 16,57 Kolomna 9-3-2008
Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 15 05,31 Kolomna 8-4-2008

---------------

Ragnvald Næss skated 15.01,47 Hamar V 11.1.09

Regards,
Kjell P.
• Yes, but then he was in the 55 age group
Message 7 of 16 , Apr 4, 2009
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Yes, but then he was in the 55 age group

Op 04-04-2009 10:25, schreef Kjell Pettersen <kjpette@...>:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marcel Warnaar
> To: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
>
>
> Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for a
> start. No guarantee whatsoever!!
>
> the age being defined as age reached during the competition year 1st July
> till 30th June
>
> 50-54
> Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 38,24 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
> Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,74 Calgary 24-3-2006
> Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 57,62 Calgary 22-3-2006
> Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 12,40 Calgary 11-3-2004
> Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 7 16,57 Kolomna 9-3-2008
> Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 15 05,31 Kolomna 8-4-2008
>
> ---------------
>
> Ragnvald Næss skated 15.01,47 Hamar V 11.1.09
>
> Regards,
> Kjell P.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
• and thus considerably faster than Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 15 29,96 Heerenveen 21-3-2007 ... From: Irene Postma Sent:
Message 8 of 16 , Apr 4, 2009
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and thus considerably faster than
Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 15 29,96 Heerenveen 21-3-2007

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Irene Postma" <speedskating@...>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:55 AM
To: "Skate" <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans

> Yes, but then he was in the 55 age group
>
>
> Op 04-04-2009 10:25, schreef Kjell Pettersen <kjpette@...>:
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Marcel Warnaar
>> To: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
>>
>>
>> Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for
>> a
>> start. No guarantee whatsoever!!
>>
>> the age being defined as age reached during the competition year 1st July
>> till 30th June
>>
>> 50-54
>> Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 38,24 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
>> Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,74 Calgary 24-3-2006
>> Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 57,62 Calgary 22-3-2006
>> Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 12,40 Calgary 11-3-2004
>> Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 7 16,57 Kolomna 9-3-2008
>> Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 15 05,31 Kolomna 8-4-2008
>>
>> ---------------
>>
>> Ragnvald Næss skated 15.01,47 Hamar V 11.1.09
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kjell P.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
• No, Kjell is right. Naess is 54 in this season, as he turned 54 on July, 5 which is in this season. Any other corrections and additions welcome, of course...
Message 9 of 16 , Apr 4, 2009
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No, Kjell is right. Naess is 54 in this season, as he turned 54 on July, 5
which is in this season. Any other corrections and additions welcome, of
course...

Marcel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Irene Postma" <speedskating@...>
To: "Skate" <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans

Yes, but then he was in the 55 age group

Op 04-04-2009 10:25, schreef Kjell Pettersen <kjpette@...>:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marcel Warnaar
> To: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
>
>
> Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for a
> start. No guarantee whatsoever!!
>
> the age being defined as age reached during the competition year 1st July
> till 30th June
>
> 50-54
> Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 38,24 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
> Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,74 Calgary 24-3-2006
> Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 57,62 Calgary 22-3-2006
> Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 12,40 Calgary 11-3-2004
> Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 7 16,57 Kolomna 9-3-2008
> Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 15 05,31 Kolomna 8-4-2008
>
> ---------------
>
> Ragnvald Næss skated 15.01,47 Hamar V 11.1.09
>
> Regards,
> Kjell P.
>
>
• Three other corrections: 40-44 Grit Mertens (GER) 28-06-68 17 21,25 Heerenveen 17-3-2009 50-54 Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 17 33,99 Heerenveen 17-3-2009 65-69
Message 10 of 16 , Apr 4, 2009
• 0 Attachment
Three other corrections:
40-44
Grit Mertens (GER) 28-06-68 17 21,25 Heerenveen 17-3-2009

50-54
Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 17 33,99 Heerenveen 17-3-2009

65-69
Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 08,46 Heerenveen 17-3-2009

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...>
To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans

> Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for a
> start. No guarantee whatsoever!!
>
> the age being defined as age reached during the competition year 1st July
> till 30th June
>
> 30-34
> Jeremy Wotherspoon (CAN) 26-10-76 34,03 Salt Lake City 9-11-2007
> Jeremy Wotherspoon (CAN) 26-10-76 1 07,03 Salt Lake City 11-11-2007
> Erben Wennemars (NED) 01-11-75 1 42,32 Salt Lake City 9-11-2007
> Eskil Ervik (NOR) 11-01-75 3 37,28 Calgary 5-11-2005
> Carl Verheijen (NED) 26-05-75 6 08,98 Salt Lake City 19-11-2005
> Carl Verheijen (NED) 26-05-75 12 55,30 Heerenveen 11-2-2007
>
> Catriona Lemay-Doan (CAN) 23-12-70 37,22 Calgary 9-12-2001
> Chiara Simionato (ITA) 04-07-75 1 13,47 Salt Lake City 11-11-2007
> Anni Friesinger (GER) 11-01-77 1 53,09 Calgary 17-11-2007
> Renate Groenewold (NED) 08-10-76 3 55,98 Calgary 16-11-2007
> Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 6 46,91 Salt Lake City 23-2-2002
> Clara Hughes (CAN) 27-09-72 14 19,73 Calgary 11-3-2005
>
> 35-39
> Gerard van Velde (NED) 30-11-71 35,12 Calgary 3-3-2007
> Derek Parra (USA) 15-03-70 1 09,04 Salt Lake City 20-11-2005
> Derek Parra (USA) 15-03-70 1 44,78 Salt Lake City 18-11-2005
> KC Boutiette (USA) 11-04-70 3 46,30 Salt Lake City 5-11-2005
> Rintje Ritsma (NED) 13-04-70 6 20,26 Salt Lake City 19-11-2005
> Kurt Wubben (NED) 24-04-72 13 14,31 Moskou 26-11-2006
>
> Anzjelika Kotjuga (BLR) 25-05-70 37,75 Salt Lake City 22-1-2005
> Anzjelika Kotjuga (BLR) 25-05-70 1 14,44 Salt Lake City 23-1-2005
> Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 1 54,31 Calgary 17-11-2007
> Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 3 58,76 Calgary 4-3-2007
> Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 6 49,92 Moskou 22-11-2008
> Marianne Gerrits (NED) 19-10-68 16 45,73 Collalbo 3-1-2008
>
> 40-44
> Brian Boudreau (USA) 11-08-65 37,40 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
> Brian Boudreau (USA) 11-08-65 1 13,51 Salt Lake City 28-10-2007
> Benoit Lamarche (CAN) 07-07-66 1 53,85 Calgary 23-2-2007
> Jan Duif (NED) 15-06-63 4 03,19 Calgary 22-2-2007
> Martin Hänggi (SUI) 17-03-68 6 44,10 Calgary 17-11-2007
> Jos Niesten (NED) 05-12-45 14 28,78 Heerenveen 17-12-1987
>
> Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 41,55 Heerenveen 23-1-2009
> Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 1 21,38 Calgary 25-2-2007
> Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 2 06,76 Calgary 24-2-2007
> Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 4 32,25 Calgary 22-3-1998
> Janine Slootstra (NED) 30-11-66 8 00,62 Calgary 14-3-2007
> Grit Mertens (GER) 02-02-68 17 21,72 Berlijn 9-3-2008
>
> 45-49
> Pat Kelly (USA) 23-06-62 37,71 Calgary 23-2-2007
> Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,66 Calgary 14-3-2004
> Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 1 56,43 Milwaukee 25-10-2008
> Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 4 05,75 Erfurt 1-3-2008
> Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 6 59,54 Milwaukee 26-10-2008
> Harry Schut (NED) 23-12-62 14 34,95 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
>
> Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 42,39 Salt Lake City 20-12-2001
> Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 1 23,32 Salt Lake City 22-12-2001
> Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 2 09,20 Salt Lake City 21-3-2002
> Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 4 32,61 Salt Lake City 22-3-2002
> Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 7 48,60 Salt Lake City 23-12-2001
> Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 16 54,58 Heerenveen 18-3-2005
>
> 50-54
> Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 38,24 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
> Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,74 Calgary 24-3-2006
> Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 57,62 Calgary 22-3-2006
> Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 12,40 Calgary 11-3-2004
> Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 7 16,57 Kolomna 9-3-2008
> Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 15 05,31 Kolomna 8-4-2008
>
> Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 44,82 Calgary 23-2-2007
> Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 1 28,19 Calgary 25-2-2007
> Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 2 14,96 Calgary 24-2-2007
> Galina Petrova-Blinkova (RUS) 02-10-56 4 38,47 Calgary 25-2-2007
> Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 8 34,59 Haarlem 30-12-2007
> Manja Bunschoten (NED) 23-06-55 19 05,10 Amsterdam 24-2-2008
>
> 55-59
> Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 40,25 Salt Lake City 28-2-2009
> Brynjulf Måkestad (NOR) 17-12-51 1 22,15 Calgary 15-3-2008
> Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 2 01,70 Calgary 23-2-2007
> Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 17,94 Calgary 22-2-2007
> Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005
> Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 15 29,96 Heerenveen 21-3-2007
>
> Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 46,95 Heerenveen 16-2-2006
> Anjo Mensinga (NED) 19-01-51 1 33,19 Calgary 25-2-2007
> Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 2 24,45 Heerenveen 26-1-2004
> Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 4 56,48 Calgary 25-2-2007
> Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 8 24,50 Heerenveen 23-3-2004
> Marian Furst (USA) 12-01-50 18 53,18 Salt Lake City 17-3-2007
>
> 60-64
> Alf Gjølga (NOR) 01-04-46 42,35 Hamar 9-2-2008
> Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 1 23,49 Heerenveen 24-1-2006
> Kees Verdouw (NED) 22-07-44 2 04,95 Calgary 23-2-2007
> Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 4 21,10 Calgary 24-2-2007
> Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 7 32,47 Calgary 25-2-2007
> Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 15 45,25 Heerenveen 24-3-2003
>
> Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 47,39 Heerenveen 13-3-2008
> Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 1 33,01 Calgary 23-2-2007
> Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 2 20,69 Calgary 23-2-2007
> Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 4 48,14 Calgary 23-2-2007
> Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 8 21,55 Heerenveen 21-3-2007
> Ragnhild Collin-Hansen (NOR) 22-02-48 31 07,8 Bjugn 8-3-2008
>
> 65-69
> Svein Bruket (NOR) 06-10-42 43,82 Calgary 15-3-2008
> Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 1 26,28 Erfurt 2-3-2008
> Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 2 09,64 Heerenveen 21-3-2008
> Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 4 38,59 Erfurt 2-3-2008
> Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 7 47,59 Heerenveen 19-3-2008
> Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 16,51 Heerenveen 10-3-2008
>
> Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 53,29 Inzell 15-2-2009
> Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 1 46,51 Inzell 15-2-2009
> Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 2 42,11 Calgary 23-2-2007
> Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 5 27,38 Calgary 25-2-2007
>
> 70-74
> Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 45,18 Calgary 21-3-2009
> Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 1 30,48 Calgary 21-3-2009
> Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 2 17,68 Calgary 20-3-2009
> Arne Kjell Foldvik (NOR) 17-12-34 4 54,57 Calgary 25-2-2007
> Ludwig Meijering (NED) 08-02-36 8 32,03 Heerenveen 10-3-2008
> Jan Vereecken (NED) 15-02-34 17 29,93 Heerenveen 23-3-2004
>
> Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 53,40 Kolomna 31-1-2007
> Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 1 46,07 Kolomna 1-4-2007
> Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 2 48,97 Kolomna 31-3-2007
> Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 5 52,89 Kolomna 15-3-2009
>
> 75-79
> Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 47,37 Calgary 23-2-2007
> Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 1 35,18 Calgary 24-2-2007
> Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 2 26,93 Calgary 23-2-2007
> Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 5 06,99 Berlijn 18-2-2007
> Lars B O Eskeland (NOR) 23-01-32 9 34,33 Hamar 9-2-2008
> Lars B O Eskeland (NOR) 23-01-32 19 37,85 Hamar 10-2-2008
>
> Natalja Dontsjenko (RUS) 25-08-32 68,58 Kolomna 7-4-2008
> Natalja Dontsjenko (RUS) 25-08-32 2 28,14 Kolomna 8-4-2008
> Agatha van der Starre (CAN) 1930 3 50,26 Calgary 24-2-2007
>
> 80-84
> Arne Svanberg (NOR) 01-06-24 56,20 Hamar 22-2-2004
> Arne Svanberg (NOR) 01-06-24 1 52,06 Hamar 22-2-2004
> Henk Schueler (NED) 28-05-22 3 04,24 Eindhoven 10-3-2002
> Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 6 36,67 Hamar 27-1-2002
> Roy Whitney (CAN) 30-12-27 12 08,60 Calgary 19-3-2009
>
> 85-89
> Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 65,08 Calgary 23-2-2007
> Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 2 25,8 Helsinki 4-3-2006
> Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 3 35,57 Calgary 24-2-2007
> Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 7 38,04 Calgary 26-2-2007
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marian Furst" <mfurst4@...>
> To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 5:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
>
>
>> Preben,
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Marian Furst
>>
>>
>> At 09:41 AM 4/3/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>>I will make these "true" lists some time during the coming days using the
>>>age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC)
>>>By the way I would prefer to use 30+, 35+, 40+, 45+ and so on
>>>
>>>Preben
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "mor10_henriksen"
>>><<mailto:mortenhenriksen%40bluezone.no>mortenhenriksen@...>
>>>To:
>>><<mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com>Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
>>>Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:13 PM
>>>Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
>>>
>>> > The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of
>>> > monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own
>>> > list,
>>> > based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their"
>>> > competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show
>>> > the
>>> > real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years
>>> > old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world
>>> > wide
>>> > to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year
>>> > group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39,
>>> > 40-44,
>>> > 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the
>>> > list
>>> > they have today.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
• 55-59 Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005 should be: Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 7 19,94 Calgary 23-2-2007 Harry Kuipers is born on
Message 11 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
• 0 Attachment
55-59
Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005
should be:
Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 7 19,94 Calgary 23-2-2007

Harry Kuipers is born on 28-4-78, so only 26 then.
There als an other skater with the name Harry Kuipers(born 01-07-48), but he never skated longtrack according to the SARA database.

--- In Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com, "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...> wrote:
>
> Three other corrections:
> 40-44
> Grit Mertens (GER) 28-06-68 17 21,25 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
>
> 50-54
> Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 17 33,99 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
>
> 65-69
> Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 08,46 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...>
> To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
>
>
> > Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for a
> > start. No guarantee whatsoever!!
> >
> > the age being defined as age reached during the competition year 1st July
> > till 30th June
> >
> > 30-34
> > Jeremy Wotherspoon (CAN) 26-10-76 34,03 Salt Lake City 9-11-2007
> > Jeremy Wotherspoon (CAN) 26-10-76 1 07,03 Salt Lake City 11-11-2007
> > Erben Wennemars (NED) 01-11-75 1 42,32 Salt Lake City 9-11-2007
> > Eskil Ervik (NOR) 11-01-75 3 37,28 Calgary 5-11-2005
> > Carl Verheijen (NED) 26-05-75 6 08,98 Salt Lake City 19-11-2005
> > Carl Verheijen (NED) 26-05-75 12 55,30 Heerenveen 11-2-2007
> >
> > Catriona Lemay-Doan (CAN) 23-12-70 37,22 Calgary 9-12-2001
> > Chiara Simionato (ITA) 04-07-75 1 13,47 Salt Lake City 11-11-2007
> > Anni Friesinger (GER) 11-01-77 1 53,09 Calgary 17-11-2007
> > Renate Groenewold (NED) 08-10-76 3 55,98 Calgary 16-11-2007
> > Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 6 46,91 Salt Lake City 23-2-2002
> > Clara Hughes (CAN) 27-09-72 14 19,73 Calgary 11-3-2005
> >
> > 35-39
> > Gerard van Velde (NED) 30-11-71 35,12 Calgary 3-3-2007
> > Derek Parra (USA) 15-03-70 1 09,04 Salt Lake City 20-11-2005
> > Derek Parra (USA) 15-03-70 1 44,78 Salt Lake City 18-11-2005
> > KC Boutiette (USA) 11-04-70 3 46,30 Salt Lake City 5-11-2005
> > Rintje Ritsma (NED) 13-04-70 6 20,26 Salt Lake City 19-11-2005
> > Kurt Wubben (NED) 24-04-72 13 14,31 Moskou 26-11-2006
> >
> > Anzjelika Kotjuga (BLR) 25-05-70 37,75 Salt Lake City 22-1-2005
> > Anzjelika Kotjuga (BLR) 25-05-70 1 14,44 Salt Lake City 23-1-2005
> > Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 1 54,31 Calgary 17-11-2007
> > Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 3 58,76 Calgary 4-3-2007
> > Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 6 49,92 Moskou 22-11-2008
> > Marianne Gerrits (NED) 19-10-68 16 45,73 Collalbo 3-1-2008
> >
> > 40-44
> > Brian Boudreau (USA) 11-08-65 37,40 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
> > Brian Boudreau (USA) 11-08-65 1 13,51 Salt Lake City 28-10-2007
> > Benoit Lamarche (CAN) 07-07-66 1 53,85 Calgary 23-2-2007
> > Jan Duif (NED) 15-06-63 4 03,19 Calgary 22-2-2007
> > Martin Hänggi (SUI) 17-03-68 6 44,10 Calgary 17-11-2007
> > Jos Niesten (NED) 05-12-45 14 28,78 Heerenveen 17-12-1987
> >
> > Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 41,55 Heerenveen 23-1-2009
> > Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 1 21,38 Calgary 25-2-2007
> > Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 2 06,76 Calgary 24-2-2007
> > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 4 32,25 Calgary 22-3-1998
> > Janine Slootstra (NED) 30-11-66 8 00,62 Calgary 14-3-2007
> > Grit Mertens (GER) 02-02-68 17 21,72 Berlijn 9-3-2008
> >
> > 45-49
> > Pat Kelly (USA) 23-06-62 37,71 Calgary 23-2-2007
> > Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,66 Calgary 14-3-2004
> > Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 1 56,43 Milwaukee 25-10-2008
> > Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 4 05,75 Erfurt 1-3-2008
> > Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 6 59,54 Milwaukee 26-10-2008
> > Harry Schut (NED) 23-12-62 14 34,95 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
> >
> > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 42,39 Salt Lake City 20-12-2001
> > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 1 23,32 Salt Lake City 22-12-2001
> > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 2 09,20 Salt Lake City 21-3-2002
> > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 4 32,61 Salt Lake City 22-3-2002
> > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 7 48,60 Salt Lake City 23-12-2001
> > Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 16 54,58 Heerenveen 18-3-2005
> >
> > 50-54
> > Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 38,24 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
> > Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,74 Calgary 24-3-2006
> > Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 57,62 Calgary 22-3-2006
> > Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 12,40 Calgary 11-3-2004
> > Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 7 16,57 Kolomna 9-3-2008
> > Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 15 05,31 Kolomna 8-4-2008
> >
> > Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 44,82 Calgary 23-2-2007
> > Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 1 28,19 Calgary 25-2-2007
> > Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 2 14,96 Calgary 24-2-2007
> > Galina Petrova-Blinkova (RUS) 02-10-56 4 38,47 Calgary 25-2-2007
> > Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 8 34,59 Haarlem 30-12-2007
> > Manja Bunschoten (NED) 23-06-55 19 05,10 Amsterdam 24-2-2008
> >
> > 55-59
> > Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 40,25 Salt Lake City 28-2-2009
> > Brynjulf Måkestad (NOR) 17-12-51 1 22,15 Calgary 15-3-2008
> > Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 2 01,70 Calgary 23-2-2007
> > Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 17,94 Calgary 22-2-2007
> > Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005
> > Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 15 29,96 Heerenveen 21-3-2007
> >
> > Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 46,95 Heerenveen 16-2-2006
> > Anjo Mensinga (NED) 19-01-51 1 33,19 Calgary 25-2-2007
> > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 2 24,45 Heerenveen 26-1-2004
> > Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 4 56,48 Calgary 25-2-2007
> > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 8 24,50 Heerenveen 23-3-2004
> > Marian Furst (USA) 12-01-50 18 53,18 Salt Lake City 17-3-2007
> >
> > 60-64
> > Alf Gjølga (NOR) 01-04-46 42,35 Hamar 9-2-2008
> > Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 1 23,49 Heerenveen 24-1-2006
> > Kees Verdouw (NED) 22-07-44 2 04,95 Calgary 23-2-2007
> > Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 4 21,10 Calgary 24-2-2007
> > Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 7 32,47 Calgary 25-2-2007
> > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 15 45,25 Heerenveen 24-3-2003
> >
> > Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 47,39 Heerenveen 13-3-2008
> > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 1 33,01 Calgary 23-2-2007
> > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 2 20,69 Calgary 23-2-2007
> > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 4 48,14 Calgary 23-2-2007
> > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 8 21,55 Heerenveen 21-3-2007
> > Ragnhild Collin-Hansen (NOR) 22-02-48 31 07,8 Bjugn 8-3-2008
> >
> > 65-69
> > Svein Bruket (NOR) 06-10-42 43,82 Calgary 15-3-2008
> > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 1 26,28 Erfurt 2-3-2008
> > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 2 09,64 Heerenveen 21-3-2008
> > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 4 38,59 Erfurt 2-3-2008
> > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 7 47,59 Heerenveen 19-3-2008
> > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 16,51 Heerenveen 10-3-2008
> >
> > Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 53,29 Inzell 15-2-2009
> > Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 1 46,51 Inzell 15-2-2009
> > Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 2 42,11 Calgary 23-2-2007
> > Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 5 27,38 Calgary 25-2-2007
> >
> > 70-74
> > Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 45,18 Calgary 21-3-2009
> > Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 1 30,48 Calgary 21-3-2009
> > Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 2 17,68 Calgary 20-3-2009
> > Arne Kjell Foldvik (NOR) 17-12-34 4 54,57 Calgary 25-2-2007
> > Ludwig Meijering (NED) 08-02-36 8 32,03 Heerenveen 10-3-2008
> > Jan Vereecken (NED) 15-02-34 17 29,93 Heerenveen 23-3-2004
> >
> > Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 53,40 Kolomna 31-1-2007
> > Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 1 46,07 Kolomna 1-4-2007
> > Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 2 48,97 Kolomna 31-3-2007
> > Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 5 52,89 Kolomna 15-3-2009
> >
> > 75-79
> > Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 47,37 Calgary 23-2-2007
> > Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 1 35,18 Calgary 24-2-2007
> > Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 2 26,93 Calgary 23-2-2007
> > Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 5 06,99 Berlijn 18-2-2007
> > Lars B O Eskeland (NOR) 23-01-32 9 34,33 Hamar 9-2-2008
> > Lars B O Eskeland (NOR) 23-01-32 19 37,85 Hamar 10-2-2008
> >
> > Natalja Dontsjenko (RUS) 25-08-32 68,58 Kolomna 7-4-2008
> > Natalja Dontsjenko (RUS) 25-08-32 2 28,14 Kolomna 8-4-2008
> > Agatha van der Starre (CAN) 1930 3 50,26 Calgary 24-2-2007
> >
> > 80-84
> > Arne Svanberg (NOR) 01-06-24 56,20 Hamar 22-2-2004
> > Arne Svanberg (NOR) 01-06-24 1 52,06 Hamar 22-2-2004
> > Henk Schueler (NED) 28-05-22 3 04,24 Eindhoven 10-3-2002
> > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 6 36,67 Hamar 27-1-2002
> > Roy Whitney (CAN) 30-12-27 12 08,60 Calgary 19-3-2009
> >
> > 85-89
> > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 65,08 Calgary 23-2-2007
> > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 2 25,8 Helsinki 4-3-2006
> > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 3 35,57 Calgary 24-2-2007
> > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 7 38,04 Calgary 26-2-2007
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Marian Furst" <mfurst4@...>
> > To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 5:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
> >
> >
> >> Preben,
> >>
> >> Thank you!
> >>
> >> Marian Furst
> >>
> >>
> >> At 09:41 AM 4/3/2009, you wrote:
> >>
> >>>I will make these "true" lists some time during the coming days using the
> >>>age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC)
> >>>By the way I would prefer to use 30+, 35+, 40+, 45+ and so on
> >>>
> >>>Preben
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "mor10_henriksen"
> >>><<mailto:mortenhenriksen%40bluezone.no>mortenhenriksen@...>
> >>>To:
> >>><<mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com>Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
> >>>Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:13 PM
> >>>Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
> >>>
> >>> > The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of
> >>> > monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own
> >>> > list,
> >>> > based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their"
> >>> > competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show
> >>> > the
> >>> > real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years
> >>> > old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world
> >>> > wide
> >>> > to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year
> >>> > group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39,
> >>> > 40-44,
> >>> > 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the
> >>> > list
> >>> > they have today.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > ------------------------------------
> >>> >
> >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
• It is actually quite easy to skate a race and not be included in SARA you have to make sure you either do not have a KNSB Langebaan license or, failing that
Message 12 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
• 0 Attachment
It is actually quite easy to skate a race and not be included in SARA
you have to make sure you either do not have a KNSB "Langebaan" license
or, failing that criteria, you have to skate a race abroad that you did not

look on page 248 of Schaatsseizoen 2005-2006, and see Harry Kuipers (born
01-07-48) with a 7.17,09
(though www.desg.de claims it is skated by Harry Kuipers (born 28-04-78)

Dirk Broer

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jurgen Meijer" <jurgenm2002@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:52 AM
To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans

> 55-59
> Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005
> should be:
> Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 7 19,94 Calgary 23-2-2007
>
> Harry Kuipers is born on 28-4-78, so only 26 then.
> There als an other skater with the name Harry Kuipers(born 01-07-48), but
> he never skated longtrack according to the SARA database.
>
> --- In Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com, "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> Three other corrections:
>> 40-44
>> Grit Mertens (GER) 28-06-68 17 21,25 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
>>
>> 50-54
>> Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 17 33,99 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
>>
>> 65-69
>> Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 08,46 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
>>
• There are two Harry Kuipers. Harry Kuipers bron in 1948 and Harry Kuipers born in 1978 I think Harry Kuipers (1948)skated his last season in 2003-2004. Maybe a
Message 13 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
• 0 Attachment
There are two Harry Kuipers.

Harry Kuipers bron in 1948 and Harry Kuipers born in 1978

I think Harry Kuipers (1948)skated his last season in 2003-2004.

Maybe a typo from Schaatsseizoen 2005-2006????

Gr.,

Ivo

Ivo van Bommel

5913 SL Venlo

tel.: 077 - 3540493

mob.: 06 - 16883622

Van: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com]
Namens Dirk Broer
Verzonden: zondag 5 april 2009 12:48
Aan: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans

It is actually quite easy to skate a race and not be included in SARA
you have to make sure you either do not have a KNSB "Langebaan" license
or, failing that criteria, you have to skate a race abroad that you did not

look on page 248 of Schaatsseizoen 2005-2006, and see Harry Kuipers (born
01-07-48) with a 7.17,09
(though www.desg.de claims it is skated by Harry Kuipers (born 28-04-78)

Dirk Broer

--------------------------------------------------
"mailto:jurgenm2002%40yahoo.com"jurgenm2002@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:52 AM
"mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com"Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans

> 55-59
> Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005
> should be:
> Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 7 19,94 Calgary 23-2-2007
>
> Harry Kuipers is born on 28-4-78, so only 26 then.
> There als an other skater with the name Harry Kuipers(born 01-07-48), but
> he never skated longtrack according to the SARA database.
>
"mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com"Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com,
"Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> Three other corrections:
>> 40-44
>> Grit Mertens (GER) 28-06-68 17 21,25 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
>>
>> 50-54
>> Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 17 33,99 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
>>
>> 65-69
>> Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 08,46 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
>>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 270.11.38/2037 - Release Date: 2-4-2009
6:09

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 270.11.38/2037 - Release Date: 2-4-2009
6:09

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• It indeed seems a typo in Schaatsseizoen, the younger Kuipers is also given in the WSSSA statistics for the 2005/06 season as the one of the 7.17,09 in erfurt
Message 14 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
• 0 Attachment
It indeed seems a typo in Schaatsseizoen, the younger Kuipers is
also given in the WSSSA statistics for the 2005/06 season as the one
of the 7.17,09 in erfurt

Harry Kuipers
1. Born 01-07-1948,
member of De Preamkeskouwers, Balk (HV42409)
active (according to SARA) between 1995/96 and 2003/04
Name also written as Harrie Kuipers

2. Born 28-04-1978,
member of Deventer IJsclub, aka DYC (DV03470) 1993/94-1999/00
member of S.V. De Stayer, Groningen, 2000/01-2005/06
active (according to SARA) between 1993/94 and 2005/06

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Ivo van Bommel" <bomstel@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 1:36 PM
To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans

> There are two Harry Kuipers.
>
> Harry Kuipers bron in 1948 and Harry Kuipers born in 1978
>
>
>
> I think Harry Kuipers (1948)skated his last season in 2003-2004.
>
> Maybe a typo from Schaatsseizoen 2005-2006????
>
>
>
> Gr.,
>
> Ivo
>
>
>
> Ivo van Bommel
>
>
> 5913 SL Venlo
>
>
>
> tel.: 077 - 3540493
>
> mob.: 06 - 16883622
>
>
>
> Van: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com]
> Namens Dirk Broer
> Verzonden: zondag 5 april 2009 12:48
> Aan: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
>
>
>
> It is actually quite easy to skate a race and not be included in SARA
> you have to make sure you either do not have a KNSB "Langebaan" license
> or, failing that criteria, you have to skate a race abroad that you did
> not
>
> look on page 248 of Schaatsseizoen 2005-2006, and see Harry Kuipers (born
> 01-07-48) with a 7.17,09
> (though www.desg.de claims it is skated by Harry Kuipers (born 28-04-78)
>
> Dirk Broer
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> "mailto:jurgenm2002%40yahoo.com"jurgenm2002@...>
> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:52 AM
> "mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com"Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
>
>> 55-59
>> Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005
>> should be:
>> Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 7 19,94 Calgary 23-2-2007
>>
>> Harry Kuipers is born on 28-4-78, so only 26 then.
>> There als an other skater with the name Harry Kuipers(born 01-07-48), but
>> he never skated longtrack according to the SARA database.
>>
> "mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com"Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com,
> "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Three other corrections:
>>> 40-44
>>> Grit Mertens (GER) 28-06-68 17 21,25 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
>>>
>>> 50-54
>>> Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 17 33,99 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
>>>
>>> 65-69
>>> Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 08,46 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 270.11.38/2037 - Release Date: 2-4-2009
> 6:09
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 270.11.38/2037 - Release Date: 2-4-2009
> 6:09
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
• Preben, Your lists are most satisfying, and excactly what I asked for. Thank you very much! By the way, some update may be needed after the Russian veteran
Message 15 of 16 , Apr 13, 2009
• 0 Attachment
Preben,
Your lists are most satisfying, and excactly what I asked for. Thank you very much!
By the way, some update may be needed after the Russian veteran championship on single distances 2.-3. april in Kolomna....
And, what about making a list with samalog results for veterans also? A kind of "Adselskalender" for the oldies ;-) Big, small and sprint? Then one could start to maintain real "world records" for veterans both single distances and samalog.

Best regards
Morten Henriksen

--- In Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com, "Preben G. Petersen" <pgp@...> wrote:
>
> I will make these "true" lists some time during the coming days using the
> age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC)
> By the way I would prefer to use 30+, 35+, 40+, 45+ and so on
>
> Preben
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mor10_henriksen" <mortenhenriksen@...>
> To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:13 PM
> Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
>
>
> > The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of
> > monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own list,
> > based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their"
> > competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show the
> > real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years
> > old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world wide
> > to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year
> > group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39, 40-44,
> > 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the list
> > they have today.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
• Thanks Morten, Expect a revised version (including samalogs) after the weekend with the corrections I have received so far and the new results from Kolomna.
Message 16 of 16 , Apr 14, 2009
• 0 Attachment
Thanks Morten,

Expect a revised version (including samalogs) after the weekend with the
corrections I have received so far and the new results from Kolomna. And I
will do some more search to calculate birthyears for the veteran skaters for
whom I am missing birthdates to include them as well.

Preben

----- Original Message -----
From: "mor10_henriksen" <mortenhenriksen@...>
To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:20 AM
Subject: [Skate] Re: Challenge for statisticans

> Preben,
> Your lists are most satisfying, and excactly what I asked for. Thank you
> very much!
> By the way, some update may be needed after the Russian veteran
> championship on single distances 2.-3. april in Kolomna....
> And, what about making a list with samalog results for veterans also? A
> kind of "Adselskalender" for the oldies ;-) Big, small and sprint? Then
> one could start to maintain real "world records" for veterans both single
> distances and samalog.
>
> Best regards
> Morten Henriksen
>
> --- In Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com, "Preben G. Petersen" <pgp@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> I will make these "true" lists some time during the coming days using the
>> age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC)
>> By the way I would prefer to use 30+, 35+, 40+, 45+ and so on
>>
>> Preben
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "mor10_henriksen" <mortenhenriksen@...>
>> To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:13 PM
>> Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
>>
>>
>> > The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of
>> > monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own
>> > list,
>> > based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their"
>> > competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show
>> > the
>> > real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years
>> > old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world
>> > wide
>> > to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year
>> > group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39,
>> > 40-44,
>> > 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the list
>> > they have today.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>