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Challenge for statisticans

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  • mor10_henriksen
    The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own list, based on rules
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 3 6:13 AM
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      The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own list, based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their" competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show the real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world wide to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39, 40-44, 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the list they have today.
    • Dirk Broer
      Which raises the eternal question as to how old a person is when he/she skates. If you use real age, one might end up in two different categories during one
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 3 8:01 AM
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        Which raises the eternal question as to how 'old' a person is when he/she skates.

        If you use real age, one might end up in two different categories during one meet.

        I agree that the list used by the IMSSG is complete bollocks, even races between

        30+ skaters during a ISU world championship do not count in tyheir eyes.


        Dirk Broer e-mail: Dirk_P_Broer@...



        > To: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
        > From: mortenhenriksen@...
        > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 13:13:25 +0000
        > Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
        >
        > The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own list, based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their" competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show the real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world wide to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39, 40-44, 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the list they have today.

        _________________________________________________________________
        Krijg updates van je vrienden en blijf op de hoogte
        http://home.live.com

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Preben G. Petersen
        I will make these true lists some time during the coming days using the age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC) By the way I would prefer to use 30+,
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 3 8:41 AM
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          I will make these "true" lists some time during the coming days using the
          age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC)
          By the way I would prefer to use 30+, 35+, 40+, 45+ and so on

          Preben
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "mor10_henriksen" <mortenhenriksen@...>
          To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:13 PM
          Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans


          > The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of
          > monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own list,
          > based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their"
          > competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show the
          > real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years
          > old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world wide
          > to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year
          > group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39, 40-44,
          > 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the list
          > they have today.
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Marian Furst
          Preben, Thank you! Marian Furst ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 3 8:50 AM
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            Preben,

            Thank you!

            Marian Furst


            At 09:41 AM 4/3/2009, you wrote:

            >I will make these "true" lists some time during the coming days using the
            >age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC)
            >By the way I would prefer to use 30+, 35+, 40+, 45+ and so on
            >
            >Preben
            >----- Original Message -----
            >From: "mor10_henriksen"
            ><<mailto:mortenhenriksen%40bluezone.no>mortenhenriksen@...>
            >To: <<mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com>Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
            >Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:13 PM
            >Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
            >
            > > The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of
            > > monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own list,
            > > based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their"
            > > competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show the
            > > real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years
            > > old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world wide
            > > to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year
            > > group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39, 40-44,
            > > 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the list
            > > they have today.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Marcel Warnaar
            Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for a start. No guarantee whatsoever!! the age being defined as age reached during the
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 4 12:34 AM
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              Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for a
              start. No guarantee whatsoever!!

              the age being defined as age reached during the competition year 1st July
              till 30th June

              30-34
              Jeremy Wotherspoon (CAN) 26-10-76 34,03 Salt Lake City 9-11-2007
              Jeremy Wotherspoon (CAN) 26-10-76 1 07,03 Salt Lake City 11-11-2007
              Erben Wennemars (NED) 01-11-75 1 42,32 Salt Lake City 9-11-2007
              Eskil Ervik (NOR) 11-01-75 3 37,28 Calgary 5-11-2005
              Carl Verheijen (NED) 26-05-75 6 08,98 Salt Lake City 19-11-2005
              Carl Verheijen (NED) 26-05-75 12 55,30 Heerenveen 11-2-2007

              Catriona Lemay-Doan (CAN) 23-12-70 37,22 Calgary 9-12-2001
              Chiara Simionato (ITA) 04-07-75 1 13,47 Salt Lake City 11-11-2007
              Anni Friesinger (GER) 11-01-77 1 53,09 Calgary 17-11-2007
              Renate Groenewold (NED) 08-10-76 3 55,98 Calgary 16-11-2007
              Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 6 46,91 Salt Lake City 23-2-2002
              Clara Hughes (CAN) 27-09-72 14 19,73 Calgary 11-3-2005

              35-39
              Gerard van Velde (NED) 30-11-71 35,12 Calgary 3-3-2007
              Derek Parra (USA) 15-03-70 1 09,04 Salt Lake City 20-11-2005
              Derek Parra (USA) 15-03-70 1 44,78 Salt Lake City 18-11-2005
              KC Boutiette (USA) 11-04-70 3 46,30 Salt Lake City 5-11-2005
              Rintje Ritsma (NED) 13-04-70 6 20,26 Salt Lake City 19-11-2005
              Kurt Wubben (NED) 24-04-72 13 14,31 Moskou 26-11-2006

              Anzjelika Kotjuga (BLR) 25-05-70 37,75 Salt Lake City 22-1-2005
              Anzjelika Kotjuga (BLR) 25-05-70 1 14,44 Salt Lake City 23-1-2005
              Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 1 54,31 Calgary 17-11-2007
              Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 3 58,76 Calgary 4-3-2007
              Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 6 49,92 Moskou 22-11-2008
              Marianne Gerrits (NED) 19-10-68 16 45,73 Collalbo 3-1-2008

              40-44
              Brian Boudreau (USA) 11-08-65 37,40 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
              Brian Boudreau (USA) 11-08-65 1 13,51 Salt Lake City 28-10-2007
              Benoit Lamarche (CAN) 07-07-66 1 53,85 Calgary 23-2-2007
              Jan Duif (NED) 15-06-63 4 03,19 Calgary 22-2-2007
              Martin Hänggi (SUI) 17-03-68 6 44,10 Calgary 17-11-2007
              Jos Niesten (NED) 05-12-45 14 28,78 Heerenveen 17-12-1987

              Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 41,55 Heerenveen 23-1-2009
              Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 1 21,38 Calgary 25-2-2007
              Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 2 06,76 Calgary 24-2-2007
              Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 4 32,25 Calgary 22-3-1998
              Janine Slootstra (NED) 30-11-66 8 00,62 Calgary 14-3-2007
              Grit Mertens (GER) 02-02-68 17 21,72 Berlijn 9-3-2008

              45-49
              Pat Kelly (USA) 23-06-62 37,71 Calgary 23-2-2007
              Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,66 Calgary 14-3-2004
              Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 1 56,43 Milwaukee 25-10-2008
              Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 4 05,75 Erfurt 1-3-2008
              Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 6 59,54 Milwaukee 26-10-2008
              Harry Schut (NED) 23-12-62 14 34,95 Heerenveen 17-3-2009

              Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 42,39 Salt Lake City 20-12-2001
              Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 1 23,32 Salt Lake City 22-12-2001
              Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 2 09,20 Salt Lake City 21-3-2002
              Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 4 32,61 Salt Lake City 22-3-2002
              Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 7 48,60 Salt Lake City 23-12-2001
              Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 16 54,58 Heerenveen 18-3-2005

              50-54
              Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 38,24 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
              Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,74 Calgary 24-3-2006
              Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 57,62 Calgary 22-3-2006
              Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 12,40 Calgary 11-3-2004
              Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 7 16,57 Kolomna 9-3-2008
              Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 15 05,31 Kolomna 8-4-2008

              Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 44,82 Calgary 23-2-2007
              Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 1 28,19 Calgary 25-2-2007
              Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 2 14,96 Calgary 24-2-2007
              Galina Petrova-Blinkova (RUS) 02-10-56 4 38,47 Calgary 25-2-2007
              Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 8 34,59 Haarlem 30-12-2007
              Manja Bunschoten (NED) 23-06-55 19 05,10 Amsterdam 24-2-2008

              55-59
              Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 40,25 Salt Lake City 28-2-2009
              Brynjulf Måkestad (NOR) 17-12-51 1 22,15 Calgary 15-3-2008
              Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 2 01,70 Calgary 23-2-2007
              Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 17,94 Calgary 22-2-2007
              Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005
              Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 15 29,96 Heerenveen 21-3-2007

              Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 46,95 Heerenveen 16-2-2006
              Anjo Mensinga (NED) 19-01-51 1 33,19 Calgary 25-2-2007
              Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 2 24,45 Heerenveen 26-1-2004
              Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 4 56,48 Calgary 25-2-2007
              Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 8 24,50 Heerenveen 23-3-2004
              Marian Furst (USA) 12-01-50 18 53,18 Salt Lake City 17-3-2007

              60-64
              Alf Gjølga (NOR) 01-04-46 42,35 Hamar 9-2-2008
              Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 1 23,49 Heerenveen 24-1-2006
              Kees Verdouw (NED) 22-07-44 2 04,95 Calgary 23-2-2007
              Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 4 21,10 Calgary 24-2-2007
              Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 7 32,47 Calgary 25-2-2007
              Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 15 45,25 Heerenveen 24-3-2003

              Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 47,39 Heerenveen 13-3-2008
              Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 1 33,01 Calgary 23-2-2007
              Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 2 20,69 Calgary 23-2-2007
              Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 4 48,14 Calgary 23-2-2007
              Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 8 21,55 Heerenveen 21-3-2007
              Ragnhild Collin-Hansen (NOR) 22-02-48 31 07,8 Bjugn 8-3-2008

              65-69
              Svein Bruket (NOR) 06-10-42 43,82 Calgary 15-3-2008
              Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 1 26,28 Erfurt 2-3-2008
              Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 2 09,64 Heerenveen 21-3-2008
              Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 4 38,59 Erfurt 2-3-2008
              Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 7 47,59 Heerenveen 19-3-2008
              Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 16,51 Heerenveen 10-3-2008

              Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 53,29 Inzell 15-2-2009
              Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 1 46,51 Inzell 15-2-2009
              Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 2 42,11 Calgary 23-2-2007
              Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 5 27,38 Calgary 25-2-2007

              70-74
              Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 45,18 Calgary 21-3-2009
              Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 1 30,48 Calgary 21-3-2009
              Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 2 17,68 Calgary 20-3-2009
              Arne Kjell Foldvik (NOR) 17-12-34 4 54,57 Calgary 25-2-2007
              Ludwig Meijering (NED) 08-02-36 8 32,03 Heerenveen 10-3-2008
              Jan Vereecken (NED) 15-02-34 17 29,93 Heerenveen 23-3-2004

              Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 53,40 Kolomna 31-1-2007
              Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 1 46,07 Kolomna 1-4-2007
              Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 2 48,97 Kolomna 31-3-2007
              Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 5 52,89 Kolomna 15-3-2009

              75-79
              Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 47,37 Calgary 23-2-2007
              Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 1 35,18 Calgary 24-2-2007
              Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 2 26,93 Calgary 23-2-2007
              Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 5 06,99 Berlijn 18-2-2007
              Lars B O Eskeland (NOR) 23-01-32 9 34,33 Hamar 9-2-2008
              Lars B O Eskeland (NOR) 23-01-32 19 37,85 Hamar 10-2-2008

              Natalja Dontsjenko (RUS) 25-08-32 68,58 Kolomna 7-4-2008
              Natalja Dontsjenko (RUS) 25-08-32 2 28,14 Kolomna 8-4-2008
              Agatha van der Starre (CAN) 1930 3 50,26 Calgary 24-2-2007

              80-84
              Arne Svanberg (NOR) 01-06-24 56,20 Hamar 22-2-2004
              Arne Svanberg (NOR) 01-06-24 1 52,06 Hamar 22-2-2004
              Henk Schueler (NED) 28-05-22 3 04,24 Eindhoven 10-3-2002
              Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 6 36,67 Hamar 27-1-2002
              Roy Whitney (CAN) 30-12-27 12 08,60 Calgary 19-3-2009

              85-89
              Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 65,08 Calgary 23-2-2007
              Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 2 25,8 Helsinki 4-3-2006
              Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 3 35,57 Calgary 24-2-2007
              Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 7 38,04 Calgary 26-2-2007


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Marian Furst" <mfurst4@...>
              To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 5:50 PM
              Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans


              > Preben,
              >
              > Thank you!
              >
              > Marian Furst
              >
              >
              > At 09:41 AM 4/3/2009, you wrote:
              >
              >>I will make these "true" lists some time during the coming days using the
              >>age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC)
              >>By the way I would prefer to use 30+, 35+, 40+, 45+ and so on
              >>
              >>Preben
              >>----- Original Message -----
              >>From: "mor10_henriksen"
              >><<mailto:mortenhenriksen%40bluezone.no>mortenhenriksen@...>
              >>To:
              >><<mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com>Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
              >>Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:13 PM
              >>Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
              >>
              >> > The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of
              >> > monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own
              >> > list,
              >> > based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their"
              >> > competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show
              >> > the
              >> > real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years
              >> > old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world
              >> > wide
              >> > to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year
              >> > group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39,
              >> > 40-44,
              >> > 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the list
              >> > they have today.
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > ------------------------------------
              >> >
              >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • Kjell Pettersen
              ... From: Marcel Warnaar To: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans Preben will
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 4 1:25 AM
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                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Marcel Warnaar
                To: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:34 AM
                Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans


                Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for a
                start. No guarantee whatsoever!!

                the age being defined as age reached during the competition year 1st July
                till 30th June

                50-54
                Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 38,24 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
                Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,74 Calgary 24-3-2006
                Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 57,62 Calgary 22-3-2006
                Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 12,40 Calgary 11-3-2004
                Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 7 16,57 Kolomna 9-3-2008
                Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 15 05,31 Kolomna 8-4-2008

                ---------------

                Ragnvald Næss skated 15.01,47 Hamar V 11.1.09

                Regards,
                Kjell P.
              • Irene Postma
                Yes, but then he was in the 55 age group
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 4 2:55 AM
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                  Yes, but then he was in the 55 age group


                  Op 04-04-2009 10:25, schreef Kjell Pettersen <kjpette@...>:

                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Marcel Warnaar
                  > To: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:34 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
                  >
                  >
                  > Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for a
                  > start. No guarantee whatsoever!!
                  >
                  > the age being defined as age reached during the competition year 1st July
                  > till 30th June
                  >
                  > 50-54
                  > Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 38,24 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
                  > Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,74 Calgary 24-3-2006
                  > Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 57,62 Calgary 22-3-2006
                  > Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 12,40 Calgary 11-3-2004
                  > Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 7 16,57 Kolomna 9-3-2008
                  > Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 15 05,31 Kolomna 8-4-2008
                  >
                  > ---------------
                  >
                  > Ragnvald Næss skated 15.01,47 Hamar V 11.1.09
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > Kjell P.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Dirk Broer
                  and thus considerably faster than Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 15 29,96 Heerenveen 21-3-2007 ... From: Irene Postma Sent:
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 4 3:48 AM
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                    and thus considerably faster than
                    Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 15 29,96 Heerenveen 21-3-2007


                    --------------------------------------------------
                    From: "Irene Postma" <speedskating@...>
                    Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:55 AM
                    To: "Skate" <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans

                    > Yes, but then he was in the 55 age group
                    >
                    >
                    > Op 04-04-2009 10:25, schreef Kjell Pettersen <kjpette@...>:
                    >
                    >> ----- Original Message -----
                    >> From: Marcel Warnaar
                    >> To: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:34 AM
                    >> Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for
                    >> a
                    >> start. No guarantee whatsoever!!
                    >>
                    >> the age being defined as age reached during the competition year 1st July
                    >> till 30th June
                    >>
                    >> 50-54
                    >> Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 38,24 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
                    >> Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,74 Calgary 24-3-2006
                    >> Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 57,62 Calgary 22-3-2006
                    >> Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 12,40 Calgary 11-3-2004
                    >> Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 7 16,57 Kolomna 9-3-2008
                    >> Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 15 05,31 Kolomna 8-4-2008
                    >>
                    >> ---------------
                    >>
                    >> Ragnvald Næss skated 15.01,47 Hamar V 11.1.09
                    >>
                    >> Regards,
                    >> Kjell P.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ------------------------------------
                    >>
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Marcel Warnaar
                    No, Kjell is right. Naess is 54 in this season, as he turned 54 on July, 5 which is in this season. Any other corrections and additions welcome, of course...
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 4 5:42 AM
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                      No, Kjell is right. Naess is 54 in this season, as he turned 54 on July, 5
                      which is in this season. Any other corrections and additions welcome, of
                      course...

                      Marcel
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Irene Postma" <speedskating@...>
                      To: "Skate" <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:55 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans


                      Yes, but then he was in the 55 age group


                      Op 04-04-2009 10:25, schreef Kjell Pettersen <kjpette@...>:

                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Marcel Warnaar
                      > To: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:34 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
                      >
                      >
                      > Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for a
                      > start. No guarantee whatsoever!!
                      >
                      > the age being defined as age reached during the competition year 1st July
                      > till 30th June
                      >
                      > 50-54
                      > Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 38,24 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
                      > Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,74 Calgary 24-3-2006
                      > Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 57,62 Calgary 22-3-2006
                      > Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 12,40 Calgary 11-3-2004
                      > Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 7 16,57 Kolomna 9-3-2008
                      > Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 15 05,31 Kolomna 8-4-2008
                      >
                      > ---------------
                      >
                      > Ragnvald Næss skated 15.01,47 Hamar V 11.1.09
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      > Kjell P.
                      >
                      >
                    • Marcel Warnaar
                      Three other corrections: 40-44 Grit Mertens (GER) 28-06-68 17 21,25 Heerenveen 17-3-2009 50-54 Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 17 33,99 Heerenveen 17-3-2009 65-69
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 4 10:26 AM
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                        Three other corrections:
                        40-44
                        Grit Mertens (GER) 28-06-68 17 21,25 Heerenveen 17-3-2009

                        50-54
                        Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 17 33,99 Heerenveen 17-3-2009

                        65-69
                        Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 08,46 Heerenveen 17-3-2009

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...>
                        To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:34 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans


                        > Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for a
                        > start. No guarantee whatsoever!!
                        >
                        > the age being defined as age reached during the competition year 1st July
                        > till 30th June
                        >
                        > 30-34
                        > Jeremy Wotherspoon (CAN) 26-10-76 34,03 Salt Lake City 9-11-2007
                        > Jeremy Wotherspoon (CAN) 26-10-76 1 07,03 Salt Lake City 11-11-2007
                        > Erben Wennemars (NED) 01-11-75 1 42,32 Salt Lake City 9-11-2007
                        > Eskil Ervik (NOR) 11-01-75 3 37,28 Calgary 5-11-2005
                        > Carl Verheijen (NED) 26-05-75 6 08,98 Salt Lake City 19-11-2005
                        > Carl Verheijen (NED) 26-05-75 12 55,30 Heerenveen 11-2-2007
                        >
                        > Catriona Lemay-Doan (CAN) 23-12-70 37,22 Calgary 9-12-2001
                        > Chiara Simionato (ITA) 04-07-75 1 13,47 Salt Lake City 11-11-2007
                        > Anni Friesinger (GER) 11-01-77 1 53,09 Calgary 17-11-2007
                        > Renate Groenewold (NED) 08-10-76 3 55,98 Calgary 16-11-2007
                        > Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 6 46,91 Salt Lake City 23-2-2002
                        > Clara Hughes (CAN) 27-09-72 14 19,73 Calgary 11-3-2005
                        >
                        > 35-39
                        > Gerard van Velde (NED) 30-11-71 35,12 Calgary 3-3-2007
                        > Derek Parra (USA) 15-03-70 1 09,04 Salt Lake City 20-11-2005
                        > Derek Parra (USA) 15-03-70 1 44,78 Salt Lake City 18-11-2005
                        > KC Boutiette (USA) 11-04-70 3 46,30 Salt Lake City 5-11-2005
                        > Rintje Ritsma (NED) 13-04-70 6 20,26 Salt Lake City 19-11-2005
                        > Kurt Wubben (NED) 24-04-72 13 14,31 Moskou 26-11-2006
                        >
                        > Anzjelika Kotjuga (BLR) 25-05-70 37,75 Salt Lake City 22-1-2005
                        > Anzjelika Kotjuga (BLR) 25-05-70 1 14,44 Salt Lake City 23-1-2005
                        > Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 1 54,31 Calgary 17-11-2007
                        > Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 3 58,76 Calgary 4-3-2007
                        > Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 6 49,92 Moskou 22-11-2008
                        > Marianne Gerrits (NED) 19-10-68 16 45,73 Collalbo 3-1-2008
                        >
                        > 40-44
                        > Brian Boudreau (USA) 11-08-65 37,40 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
                        > Brian Boudreau (USA) 11-08-65 1 13,51 Salt Lake City 28-10-2007
                        > Benoit Lamarche (CAN) 07-07-66 1 53,85 Calgary 23-2-2007
                        > Jan Duif (NED) 15-06-63 4 03,19 Calgary 22-2-2007
                        > Martin Hänggi (SUI) 17-03-68 6 44,10 Calgary 17-11-2007
                        > Jos Niesten (NED) 05-12-45 14 28,78 Heerenveen 17-12-1987
                        >
                        > Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 41,55 Heerenveen 23-1-2009
                        > Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 1 21,38 Calgary 25-2-2007
                        > Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 2 06,76 Calgary 24-2-2007
                        > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 4 32,25 Calgary 22-3-1998
                        > Janine Slootstra (NED) 30-11-66 8 00,62 Calgary 14-3-2007
                        > Grit Mertens (GER) 02-02-68 17 21,72 Berlijn 9-3-2008
                        >
                        > 45-49
                        > Pat Kelly (USA) 23-06-62 37,71 Calgary 23-2-2007
                        > Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,66 Calgary 14-3-2004
                        > Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 1 56,43 Milwaukee 25-10-2008
                        > Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 4 05,75 Erfurt 1-3-2008
                        > Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 6 59,54 Milwaukee 26-10-2008
                        > Harry Schut (NED) 23-12-62 14 34,95 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
                        >
                        > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 42,39 Salt Lake City 20-12-2001
                        > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 1 23,32 Salt Lake City 22-12-2001
                        > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 2 09,20 Salt Lake City 21-3-2002
                        > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 4 32,61 Salt Lake City 22-3-2002
                        > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 7 48,60 Salt Lake City 23-12-2001
                        > Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 16 54,58 Heerenveen 18-3-2005
                        >
                        > 50-54
                        > Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 38,24 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
                        > Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,74 Calgary 24-3-2006
                        > Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 57,62 Calgary 22-3-2006
                        > Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 12,40 Calgary 11-3-2004
                        > Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 7 16,57 Kolomna 9-3-2008
                        > Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 15 05,31 Kolomna 8-4-2008
                        >
                        > Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 44,82 Calgary 23-2-2007
                        > Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 1 28,19 Calgary 25-2-2007
                        > Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 2 14,96 Calgary 24-2-2007
                        > Galina Petrova-Blinkova (RUS) 02-10-56 4 38,47 Calgary 25-2-2007
                        > Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 8 34,59 Haarlem 30-12-2007
                        > Manja Bunschoten (NED) 23-06-55 19 05,10 Amsterdam 24-2-2008
                        >
                        > 55-59
                        > Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 40,25 Salt Lake City 28-2-2009
                        > Brynjulf Måkestad (NOR) 17-12-51 1 22,15 Calgary 15-3-2008
                        > Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 2 01,70 Calgary 23-2-2007
                        > Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 17,94 Calgary 22-2-2007
                        > Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005
                        > Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 15 29,96 Heerenveen 21-3-2007
                        >
                        > Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 46,95 Heerenveen 16-2-2006
                        > Anjo Mensinga (NED) 19-01-51 1 33,19 Calgary 25-2-2007
                        > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 2 24,45 Heerenveen 26-1-2004
                        > Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 4 56,48 Calgary 25-2-2007
                        > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 8 24,50 Heerenveen 23-3-2004
                        > Marian Furst (USA) 12-01-50 18 53,18 Salt Lake City 17-3-2007
                        >
                        > 60-64
                        > Alf Gjølga (NOR) 01-04-46 42,35 Hamar 9-2-2008
                        > Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 1 23,49 Heerenveen 24-1-2006
                        > Kees Verdouw (NED) 22-07-44 2 04,95 Calgary 23-2-2007
                        > Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 4 21,10 Calgary 24-2-2007
                        > Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 7 32,47 Calgary 25-2-2007
                        > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 15 45,25 Heerenveen 24-3-2003
                        >
                        > Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 47,39 Heerenveen 13-3-2008
                        > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 1 33,01 Calgary 23-2-2007
                        > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 2 20,69 Calgary 23-2-2007
                        > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 4 48,14 Calgary 23-2-2007
                        > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 8 21,55 Heerenveen 21-3-2007
                        > Ragnhild Collin-Hansen (NOR) 22-02-48 31 07,8 Bjugn 8-3-2008
                        >
                        > 65-69
                        > Svein Bruket (NOR) 06-10-42 43,82 Calgary 15-3-2008
                        > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 1 26,28 Erfurt 2-3-2008
                        > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 2 09,64 Heerenveen 21-3-2008
                        > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 4 38,59 Erfurt 2-3-2008
                        > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 7 47,59 Heerenveen 19-3-2008
                        > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 16,51 Heerenveen 10-3-2008
                        >
                        > Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 53,29 Inzell 15-2-2009
                        > Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 1 46,51 Inzell 15-2-2009
                        > Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 2 42,11 Calgary 23-2-2007
                        > Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 5 27,38 Calgary 25-2-2007
                        >
                        > 70-74
                        > Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 45,18 Calgary 21-3-2009
                        > Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 1 30,48 Calgary 21-3-2009
                        > Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 2 17,68 Calgary 20-3-2009
                        > Arne Kjell Foldvik (NOR) 17-12-34 4 54,57 Calgary 25-2-2007
                        > Ludwig Meijering (NED) 08-02-36 8 32,03 Heerenveen 10-3-2008
                        > Jan Vereecken (NED) 15-02-34 17 29,93 Heerenveen 23-3-2004
                        >
                        > Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 53,40 Kolomna 31-1-2007
                        > Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 1 46,07 Kolomna 1-4-2007
                        > Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 2 48,97 Kolomna 31-3-2007
                        > Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 5 52,89 Kolomna 15-3-2009
                        >
                        > 75-79
                        > Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 47,37 Calgary 23-2-2007
                        > Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 1 35,18 Calgary 24-2-2007
                        > Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 2 26,93 Calgary 23-2-2007
                        > Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 5 06,99 Berlijn 18-2-2007
                        > Lars B O Eskeland (NOR) 23-01-32 9 34,33 Hamar 9-2-2008
                        > Lars B O Eskeland (NOR) 23-01-32 19 37,85 Hamar 10-2-2008
                        >
                        > Natalja Dontsjenko (RUS) 25-08-32 68,58 Kolomna 7-4-2008
                        > Natalja Dontsjenko (RUS) 25-08-32 2 28,14 Kolomna 8-4-2008
                        > Agatha van der Starre (CAN) 1930 3 50,26 Calgary 24-2-2007
                        >
                        > 80-84
                        > Arne Svanberg (NOR) 01-06-24 56,20 Hamar 22-2-2004
                        > Arne Svanberg (NOR) 01-06-24 1 52,06 Hamar 22-2-2004
                        > Henk Schueler (NED) 28-05-22 3 04,24 Eindhoven 10-3-2002
                        > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 6 36,67 Hamar 27-1-2002
                        > Roy Whitney (CAN) 30-12-27 12 08,60 Calgary 19-3-2009
                        >
                        > 85-89
                        > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 65,08 Calgary 23-2-2007
                        > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 2 25,8 Helsinki 4-3-2006
                        > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 3 35,57 Calgary 24-2-2007
                        > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 7 38,04 Calgary 26-2-2007
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Marian Furst" <mfurst4@...>
                        > To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 5:50 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
                        >
                        >
                        >> Preben,
                        >>
                        >> Thank you!
                        >>
                        >> Marian Furst
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> At 09:41 AM 4/3/2009, you wrote:
                        >>
                        >>>I will make these "true" lists some time during the coming days using the
                        >>>age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC)
                        >>>By the way I would prefer to use 30+, 35+, 40+, 45+ and so on
                        >>>
                        >>>Preben
                        >>>----- Original Message -----
                        >>>From: "mor10_henriksen"
                        >>><<mailto:mortenhenriksen%40bluezone.no>mortenhenriksen@...>
                        >>>To:
                        >>><<mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com>Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                        >>>Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:13 PM
                        >>>Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
                        >>>
                        >>> > The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of
                        >>> > monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own
                        >>> > list,
                        >>> > based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their"
                        >>> > competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show
                        >>> > the
                        >>> > real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years
                        >>> > old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world
                        >>> > wide
                        >>> > to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year
                        >>> > group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39,
                        >>> > 40-44,
                        >>> > 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the
                        >>> > list
                        >>> > they have today.
                        >>> >
                        >>> >
                        >>> >
                        >>> > ------------------------------------
                        >>> >
                        >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>> >
                        >>> >
                        >>> >
                        >>> >
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> ------------------------------------
                        >>
                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Jurgen Meijer
                        55-59 Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005 should be: Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 7 19,94 Calgary 23-2-2007 Harry Kuipers is born on
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 5 2:52 AM
                        View Source
                        • 0 Attachment
                          55-59
                          Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005
                          should be:
                          Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 7 19,94 Calgary 23-2-2007

                          Harry Kuipers is born on 28-4-78, so only 26 then.
                          There als an other skater with the name Harry Kuipers(born 01-07-48), but he never skated longtrack according to the SARA database.

                          --- In Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com, "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Three other corrections:
                          > 40-44
                          > Grit Mertens (GER) 28-06-68 17 21,25 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
                          >
                          > 50-54
                          > Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 17 33,99 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
                          >
                          > 65-69
                          > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 08,46 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...>
                          > To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:34 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
                          >
                          >
                          > > Preben will make a much more thorough list of course, but these ones for a
                          > > start. No guarantee whatsoever!!
                          > >
                          > > the age being defined as age reached during the competition year 1st July
                          > > till 30th June
                          > >
                          > > 30-34
                          > > Jeremy Wotherspoon (CAN) 26-10-76 34,03 Salt Lake City 9-11-2007
                          > > Jeremy Wotherspoon (CAN) 26-10-76 1 07,03 Salt Lake City 11-11-2007
                          > > Erben Wennemars (NED) 01-11-75 1 42,32 Salt Lake City 9-11-2007
                          > > Eskil Ervik (NOR) 11-01-75 3 37,28 Calgary 5-11-2005
                          > > Carl Verheijen (NED) 26-05-75 6 08,98 Salt Lake City 19-11-2005
                          > > Carl Verheijen (NED) 26-05-75 12 55,30 Heerenveen 11-2-2007
                          > >
                          > > Catriona Lemay-Doan (CAN) 23-12-70 37,22 Calgary 9-12-2001
                          > > Chiara Simionato (ITA) 04-07-75 1 13,47 Salt Lake City 11-11-2007
                          > > Anni Friesinger (GER) 11-01-77 1 53,09 Calgary 17-11-2007
                          > > Renate Groenewold (NED) 08-10-76 3 55,98 Calgary 16-11-2007
                          > > Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 6 46,91 Salt Lake City 23-2-2002
                          > > Clara Hughes (CAN) 27-09-72 14 19,73 Calgary 11-3-2005
                          > >
                          > > 35-39
                          > > Gerard van Velde (NED) 30-11-71 35,12 Calgary 3-3-2007
                          > > Derek Parra (USA) 15-03-70 1 09,04 Salt Lake City 20-11-2005
                          > > Derek Parra (USA) 15-03-70 1 44,78 Salt Lake City 18-11-2005
                          > > KC Boutiette (USA) 11-04-70 3 46,30 Salt Lake City 5-11-2005
                          > > Rintje Ritsma (NED) 13-04-70 6 20,26 Salt Lake City 19-11-2005
                          > > Kurt Wubben (NED) 24-04-72 13 14,31 Moskou 26-11-2006
                          > >
                          > > Anzjelika Kotjuga (BLR) 25-05-70 37,75 Salt Lake City 22-1-2005
                          > > Anzjelika Kotjuga (BLR) 25-05-70 1 14,44 Salt Lake City 23-1-2005
                          > > Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 1 54,31 Calgary 17-11-2007
                          > > Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 3 58,76 Calgary 4-3-2007
                          > > Claudia Pechstein (GER) 22-02-72 6 49,92 Moskou 22-11-2008
                          > > Marianne Gerrits (NED) 19-10-68 16 45,73 Collalbo 3-1-2008
                          > >
                          > > 40-44
                          > > Brian Boudreau (USA) 11-08-65 37,40 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
                          > > Brian Boudreau (USA) 11-08-65 1 13,51 Salt Lake City 28-10-2007
                          > > Benoit Lamarche (CAN) 07-07-66 1 53,85 Calgary 23-2-2007
                          > > Jan Duif (NED) 15-06-63 4 03,19 Calgary 22-2-2007
                          > > Martin Hänggi (SUI) 17-03-68 6 44,10 Calgary 17-11-2007
                          > > Jos Niesten (NED) 05-12-45 14 28,78 Heerenveen 17-12-1987
                          > >
                          > > Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 41,55 Heerenveen 23-1-2009
                          > > Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 1 21,38 Calgary 25-2-2007
                          > > Anja Bollaart (NED) 28-10-66 2 06,76 Calgary 24-2-2007
                          > > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 4 32,25 Calgary 22-3-1998
                          > > Janine Slootstra (NED) 30-11-66 8 00,62 Calgary 14-3-2007
                          > > Grit Mertens (GER) 02-02-68 17 21,72 Berlijn 9-3-2008
                          > >
                          > > 45-49
                          > > Pat Kelly (USA) 23-06-62 37,71 Calgary 23-2-2007
                          > > Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,66 Calgary 14-3-2004
                          > > Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 1 56,43 Milwaukee 25-10-2008
                          > > Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 4 05,75 Erfurt 1-3-2008
                          > > Martin Haire (USA) 09-03-62 6 59,54 Milwaukee 26-10-2008
                          > > Harry Schut (NED) 23-12-62 14 34,95 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
                          > >
                          > > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 42,39 Salt Lake City 20-12-2001
                          > > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 1 23,32 Salt Lake City 22-12-2001
                          > > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 2 09,20 Salt Lake City 21-3-2002
                          > > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 4 32,61 Salt Lake City 22-3-2002
                          > > Nancy Peltz-Swider (USA) 20-08-56 7 48,60 Salt Lake City 23-12-2001
                          > > Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 16 54,58 Heerenveen 18-3-2005
                          > >
                          > > 50-54
                          > > Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 38,24 Salt Lake City 27-12-2005
                          > > Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 15,74 Calgary 24-3-2006
                          > > Victor van den Hoff (NED) 22-12-54 1 57,62 Calgary 22-3-2006
                          > > Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 12,40 Calgary 11-3-2004
                          > > Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 7 16,57 Kolomna 9-3-2008
                          > > Ragnvald Naess (NOR) 05-07-54 15 05,31 Kolomna 8-4-2008
                          > >
                          > > Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 44,82 Calgary 23-2-2007
                          > > Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 1 28,19 Calgary 25-2-2007
                          > > Noor van der Ster (NED) 11-11-55 2 14,96 Calgary 24-2-2007
                          > > Galina Petrova-Blinkova (RUS) 02-10-56 4 38,47 Calgary 25-2-2007
                          > > Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 8 34,59 Haarlem 30-12-2007
                          > > Manja Bunschoten (NED) 23-06-55 19 05,10 Amsterdam 24-2-2008
                          > >
                          > > 55-59
                          > > Boris Leikin (USA) 15-12-52 40,25 Salt Lake City 28-2-2009
                          > > Brynjulf Måkestad (NOR) 17-12-51 1 22,15 Calgary 15-3-2008
                          > > Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 2 01,70 Calgary 23-2-2007
                          > > Erik Vea (NOR) 11-06-51 4 17,94 Calgary 22-2-2007
                          > > Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005
                          > > Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 15 29,96 Heerenveen 21-3-2007
                          > >
                          > > Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 46,95 Heerenveen 16-2-2006
                          > > Anjo Mensinga (NED) 19-01-51 1 33,19 Calgary 25-2-2007
                          > > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 2 24,45 Heerenveen 26-1-2004
                          > > Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 4 56,48 Calgary 25-2-2007
                          > > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 8 24,50 Heerenveen 23-3-2004
                          > > Marian Furst (USA) 12-01-50 18 53,18 Salt Lake City 17-3-2007
                          > >
                          > > 60-64
                          > > Alf Gjølga (NOR) 01-04-46 42,35 Hamar 9-2-2008
                          > > Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 1 23,49 Heerenveen 24-1-2006
                          > > Kees Verdouw (NED) 22-07-44 2 04,95 Calgary 23-2-2007
                          > > Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 4 21,10 Calgary 24-2-2007
                          > > Jan van der Meulen (NED) 07-05-45 7 32,47 Calgary 25-2-2007
                          > > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 15 45,25 Heerenveen 24-3-2003
                          > >
                          > > Ria Slikker (NED) 18-01-48 47,39 Heerenveen 13-3-2008
                          > > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 1 33,01 Calgary 23-2-2007
                          > > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 2 20,69 Calgary 23-2-2007
                          > > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 4 48,14 Calgary 23-2-2007
                          > > Thea Kroontje (NED) 19-07-44 8 21,55 Heerenveen 21-3-2007
                          > > Ragnhild Collin-Hansen (NOR) 22-02-48 31 07,8 Bjugn 8-3-2008
                          > >
                          > > 65-69
                          > > Svein Bruket (NOR) 06-10-42 43,82 Calgary 15-3-2008
                          > > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 1 26,28 Erfurt 2-3-2008
                          > > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 2 09,64 Heerenveen 21-3-2008
                          > > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 4 38,59 Erfurt 2-3-2008
                          > > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 7 47,59 Heerenveen 19-3-2008
                          > > Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 16,51 Heerenveen 10-3-2008
                          > >
                          > > Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 53,29 Inzell 15-2-2009
                          > > Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 1 46,51 Inzell 15-2-2009
                          > > Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 2 42,11 Calgary 23-2-2007
                          > > Lasma Kauniste (LAT) 19-04-42 5 27,38 Calgary 25-2-2007
                          > >
                          > > 70-74
                          > > Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 45,18 Calgary 21-3-2009
                          > > Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 1 30,48 Calgary 21-3-2009
                          > > Ron Johnston (CAN) 11-05-39 2 17,68 Calgary 20-3-2009
                          > > Arne Kjell Foldvik (NOR) 17-12-34 4 54,57 Calgary 25-2-2007
                          > > Ludwig Meijering (NED) 08-02-36 8 32,03 Heerenveen 10-3-2008
                          > > Jan Vereecken (NED) 15-02-34 17 29,93 Heerenveen 23-3-2004
                          > >
                          > > Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 53,40 Kolomna 31-1-2007
                          > > Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 1 46,07 Kolomna 1-4-2007
                          > > Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 2 48,97 Kolomna 31-3-2007
                          > > Tatjana Sidorova (RUS) 25-07-36 5 52,89 Kolomna 15-3-2009
                          > >
                          > > 75-79
                          > > Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 47,37 Calgary 23-2-2007
                          > > Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 1 35,18 Calgary 24-2-2007
                          > > Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 2 26,93 Calgary 23-2-2007
                          > > Jaap Bitter (NED) 12-01-32 5 06,99 Berlijn 18-2-2007
                          > > Lars B O Eskeland (NOR) 23-01-32 9 34,33 Hamar 9-2-2008
                          > > Lars B O Eskeland (NOR) 23-01-32 19 37,85 Hamar 10-2-2008
                          > >
                          > > Natalja Dontsjenko (RUS) 25-08-32 68,58 Kolomna 7-4-2008
                          > > Natalja Dontsjenko (RUS) 25-08-32 2 28,14 Kolomna 8-4-2008
                          > > Agatha van der Starre (CAN) 1930 3 50,26 Calgary 24-2-2007
                          > >
                          > > 80-84
                          > > Arne Svanberg (NOR) 01-06-24 56,20 Hamar 22-2-2004
                          > > Arne Svanberg (NOR) 01-06-24 1 52,06 Hamar 22-2-2004
                          > > Henk Schueler (NED) 28-05-22 3 04,24 Eindhoven 10-3-2002
                          > > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 6 36,67 Hamar 27-1-2002
                          > > Roy Whitney (CAN) 30-12-27 12 08,60 Calgary 19-3-2009
                          > >
                          > > 85-89
                          > > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 65,08 Calgary 23-2-2007
                          > > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 2 25,8 Helsinki 4-3-2006
                          > > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 3 35,57 Calgary 24-2-2007
                          > > Joe McDonald (USA) 29-03-21 7 38,04 Calgary 26-2-2007
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: "Marian Furst" <mfurst4@...>
                          > > To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 5:50 PM
                          > > Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >> Preben,
                          > >>
                          > >> Thank you!
                          > >>
                          > >> Marian Furst
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> At 09:41 AM 4/3/2009, you wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >>>I will make these "true" lists some time during the coming days using the
                          > >>>age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC)
                          > >>>By the way I would prefer to use 30+, 35+, 40+, 45+ and so on
                          > >>>
                          > >>>Preben
                          > >>>----- Original Message -----
                          > >>>From: "mor10_henriksen"
                          > >>><<mailto:mortenhenriksen%40bluezone.no>mortenhenriksen@...>
                          > >>>To:
                          > >>><<mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com>Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                          > >>>Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:13 PM
                          > >>>Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
                          > >>>
                          > >>> > The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of
                          > >>> > monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own
                          > >>> > list,
                          > >>> > based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their"
                          > >>> > competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show
                          > >>> > the
                          > >>> > real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years
                          > >>> > old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world
                          > >>> > wide
                          > >>> > to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year
                          > >>> > group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39,
                          > >>> > 40-44,
                          > >>> > 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the
                          > >>> > list
                          > >>> > they have today.
                          > >>> >
                          > >>> >
                          > >>> >
                          > >>> > ------------------------------------
                          > >>> >
                          > >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >>> >
                          > >>> >
                          > >>> >
                          > >>> >
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> ------------------------------------
                          > >>
                          > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Dirk Broer
                          It is actually quite easy to skate a race and not be included in SARA you have to make sure you either do not have a KNSB Langebaan license or, failing that
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 5 3:48 AM
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                            It is actually quite easy to skate a race and not be included in SARA
                            you have to make sure you either do not have a KNSB "Langebaan" license
                            or, failing that criteria, you have to skate a race abroad that you did not
                            ask permission for.

                            look on page 248 of Schaatsseizoen 2005-2006, and see Harry Kuipers (born
                            01-07-48) with a 7.17,09
                            (though www.desg.de claims it is skated by Harry Kuipers (born 28-04-78)

                            Dirk Broer

                            --------------------------------------------------
                            From: "Jurgen Meijer" <jurgenm2002@...>
                            Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:52 AM
                            To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                            Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans

                            > 55-59
                            > Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005
                            > should be:
                            > Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 7 19,94 Calgary 23-2-2007
                            >
                            > Harry Kuipers is born on 28-4-78, so only 26 then.
                            > There als an other skater with the name Harry Kuipers(born 01-07-48), but
                            > he never skated longtrack according to the SARA database.
                            >
                            > --- In Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com, "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...>
                            > wrote:
                            >>
                            >> Three other corrections:
                            >> 40-44
                            >> Grit Mertens (GER) 28-06-68 17 21,25 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
                            >>
                            >> 50-54
                            >> Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 17 33,99 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
                            >>
                            >> 65-69
                            >> Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 08,46 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
                            >>
                          • Ivo van Bommel
                            There are two Harry Kuipers. Harry Kuipers bron in 1948 and Harry Kuipers born in 1978 I think Harry Kuipers (1948)skated his last season in 2003-2004. Maybe a
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 5 4:36 AM
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                              There are two Harry Kuipers.

                              Harry Kuipers bron in 1948 and Harry Kuipers born in 1978



                              I think Harry Kuipers (1948)skated his last season in 2003-2004.

                              Maybe a typo from Schaatsseizoen 2005-2006????



                              Gr.,

                              Ivo



                              Ivo van Bommel

                              Weth. Janssenpad 8

                              5913 SL Venlo



                              tel.: 077 - 3540493

                              mob.: 06 - 16883622



                              Van: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com]
                              Namens Dirk Broer
                              Verzonden: zondag 5 april 2009 12:48
                              Aan: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
                              Onderwerp: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans



                              It is actually quite easy to skate a race and not be included in SARA
                              you have to make sure you either do not have a KNSB "Langebaan" license
                              or, failing that criteria, you have to skate a race abroad that you did not
                              ask permission for.

                              look on page 248 of Schaatsseizoen 2005-2006, and see Harry Kuipers (born
                              01-07-48) with a 7.17,09
                              (though www.desg.de claims it is skated by Harry Kuipers (born 28-04-78)

                              Dirk Broer

                              --------------------------------------------------
                              From: "Jurgen Meijer" <HYPERLINK
                              "mailto:jurgenm2002%40yahoo.com"jurgenm2002@...>
                              Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:52 AM
                              To: <HYPERLINK
                              "mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com"Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                              Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans

                              > 55-59
                              > Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005
                              > should be:
                              > Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 7 19,94 Calgary 23-2-2007
                              >
                              > Harry Kuipers is born on 28-4-78, so only 26 then.
                              > There als an other skater with the name Harry Kuipers(born 01-07-48), but
                              > he never skated longtrack according to the SARA database.
                              >
                              > --- In HYPERLINK
                              "mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com"Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com,
                              "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...>
                              > wrote:
                              >>
                              >> Three other corrections:
                              >> 40-44
                              >> Grit Mertens (GER) 28-06-68 17 21,25 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
                              >>
                              >> 50-54
                              >> Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 17 33,99 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
                              >>
                              >> 65-69
                              >> Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 08,46 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
                              >>







                              No virus found in this incoming message.
                              Checked by AVG.
                              Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 270.11.38/2037 - Release Date: 2-4-2009
                              6:09


                              No virus found in this outgoing message.
                              Checked by AVG.
                              Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 270.11.38/2037 - Release Date: 2-4-2009
                              6:09



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Dirk Broer
                              It indeed seems a typo in Schaatsseizoen, the younger Kuipers is also given in the WSSSA statistics for the 2005/06 season as the one of the 7.17,09 in erfurt
                              Message 14 of 16 , Apr 5 6:10 AM
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                                It indeed seems a typo in Schaatsseizoen, the younger Kuipers is
                                also given in the WSSSA statistics for the 2005/06 season as the one
                                of the 7.17,09 in erfurt

                                Harry Kuipers
                                1. Born 01-07-1948,
                                member of De Preamkeskouwers, Balk (HV42409)
                                active (according to SARA) between 1995/96 and 2003/04
                                Name also written as Harrie Kuipers

                                2. Born 28-04-1978,
                                member of Deventer IJsclub, aka DYC (DV03470) 1993/94-1999/00
                                member of S.V. De Stayer, Groningen, 2000/01-2005/06
                                active (according to SARA) between 1993/94 and 2005/06





                                --------------------------------------------------
                                From: "Ivo van Bommel" <bomstel@...>
                                Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 1:36 PM
                                To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                                Subject: RE: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans

                                > There are two Harry Kuipers.
                                >
                                > Harry Kuipers bron in 1948 and Harry Kuipers born in 1978
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I think Harry Kuipers (1948)skated his last season in 2003-2004.
                                >
                                > Maybe a typo from Schaatsseizoen 2005-2006????
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Gr.,
                                >
                                > Ivo
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Ivo van Bommel
                                >
                                > Weth. Janssenpad 8
                                >
                                > 5913 SL Venlo
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > tel.: 077 - 3540493
                                >
                                > mob.: 06 - 16883622
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Van: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com]
                                > Namens Dirk Broer
                                > Verzonden: zondag 5 april 2009 12:48
                                > Aan: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
                                > Onderwerp: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > It is actually quite easy to skate a race and not be included in SARA
                                > you have to make sure you either do not have a KNSB "Langebaan" license
                                > or, failing that criteria, you have to skate a race abroad that you did
                                > not
                                > ask permission for.
                                >
                                > look on page 248 of Schaatsseizoen 2005-2006, and see Harry Kuipers (born
                                > 01-07-48) with a 7.17,09
                                > (though www.desg.de claims it is skated by Harry Kuipers (born 28-04-78)
                                >
                                > Dirk Broer
                                >
                                > --------------------------------------------------
                                > From: "Jurgen Meijer" <HYPERLINK
                                > "mailto:jurgenm2002%40yahoo.com"jurgenm2002@...>
                                > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:52 AM
                                > To: <HYPERLINK
                                > "mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com"Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Subject: Re: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
                                >
                                >> 55-59
                                >> Harry Kuipers (NED) 01-07-48 7 17,09 Erfurt 1-10-2005
                                >> should be:
                                >> Harrie Doesburg (NED) 03-05-48 7 19,94 Calgary 23-2-2007
                                >>
                                >> Harry Kuipers is born on 28-4-78, so only 26 then.
                                >> There als an other skater with the name Harry Kuipers(born 01-07-48), but
                                >> he never skated longtrack according to the SARA database.
                                >>
                                >> --- In HYPERLINK
                                > "mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com"Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com,
                                > "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...>
                                >> wrote:
                                >>>
                                >>> Three other corrections:
                                >>> 40-44
                                >>> Grit Mertens (GER) 28-06-68 17 21,25 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
                                >>>
                                >>> 50-54
                                >>> Ans Oudejans (NED) 15-03-58 17 33,99 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
                                >>>
                                >>> 65-69
                                >>> Wim Brand (NED) 19-04-43 16 08,46 Heerenveen 17-3-2009
                                >>>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                > Checked by AVG.
                                > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 270.11.38/2037 - Release Date: 2-4-2009
                                > 6:09
                                >
                                >
                                > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                > Checked by AVG.
                                > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 270.11.38/2037 - Release Date: 2-4-2009
                                > 6:09
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • mor10_henriksen
                                Preben, Your lists are most satisfying, and excactly what I asked for. Thank you very much! By the way, some update may be needed after the Russian veteran
                                Message 15 of 16 , Apr 13 2:20 AM
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                                  Preben,
                                  Your lists are most satisfying, and excactly what I asked for. Thank you very much!
                                  By the way, some update may be needed after the Russian veteran championship on single distances 2.-3. april in Kolomna....
                                  And, what about making a list with samalog results for veterans also? A kind of "Adselskalender" for the oldies ;-) Big, small and sprint? Then one could start to maintain real "world records" for veterans both single distances and samalog.

                                  Best regards
                                  Morten Henriksen

                                  --- In Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com, "Preben G. Petersen" <pgp@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I will make these "true" lists some time during the coming days using the
                                  > age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC)
                                  > By the way I would prefer to use 30+, 35+, 40+, 45+ and so on
                                  >
                                  > Preben
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "mor10_henriksen" <mortenhenriksen@...>
                                  > To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:13 PM
                                  > Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of
                                  > > monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own list,
                                  > > based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their"
                                  > > competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show the
                                  > > real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years
                                  > > old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world wide
                                  > > to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year
                                  > > group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39, 40-44,
                                  > > 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the list
                                  > > they have today.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Preben G. Petersen
                                  Thanks Morten, Expect a revised version (including samalogs) after the weekend with the corrections I have received so far and the new results from Kolomna.
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Apr 14 9:29 AM
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                                    Thanks Morten,

                                    Expect a revised version (including samalogs) after the weekend with the
                                    corrections I have received so far and the new results from Kolomna. And I
                                    will do some more search to calculate birthyears for the veteran skaters for
                                    whom I am missing birthdates to include them as well.

                                    Preben

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "mor10_henriksen" <mortenhenriksen@...>
                                    To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:20 AM
                                    Subject: [Skate] Re: Challenge for statisticans


                                    > Preben,
                                    > Your lists are most satisfying, and excactly what I asked for. Thank you
                                    > very much!
                                    > By the way, some update may be needed after the Russian veteran
                                    > championship on single distances 2.-3. april in Kolomna....
                                    > And, what about making a list with samalog results for veterans also? A
                                    > kind of "Adselskalender" for the oldies ;-) Big, small and sprint? Then
                                    > one could start to maintain real "world records" for veterans both single
                                    > distances and samalog.
                                    >
                                    > Best regards
                                    > Morten Henriksen
                                    >
                                    > --- In Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com, "Preben G. Petersen" <pgp@...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> I will make these "true" lists some time during the coming days using the
                                    >> age rules used by the IMSSG (or is it IMSCC)
                                    >> By the way I would prefer to use 30+, 35+, 40+, 45+ and so on
                                    >>
                                    >> Preben
                                    >> ----- Original Message -----
                                    >> From: "mor10_henriksen" <mortenhenriksen@...>
                                    >> To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:13 PM
                                    >> Subject: [Skate] Challenge for statisticans
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> > The IMSSG (International Masters Speed Skating Committee) has sort of
                                    >> > monopolized the World Record list for Masters, by creating their own
                                    >> > list,
                                    >> > based on rules that any world record must be set in one of "their"
                                    >> > competitions. The result of this policy is a list that does not show
                                    >> > the
                                    >> > real truth about who has skated the fastes distances being 35-90 years
                                    >> > old. I would therefore challenge you speed skating statisticans world
                                    >> > wide
                                    >> > to create the REAL World record Statistics for Masters, for easch year
                                    >> > group starting from 35 years until 100+ with 5 years steps (35-39,
                                    >> > 40-44,
                                    >> > 45-49 etc) for both women and men. It is fake to opereate with the list
                                    >> > they have today.
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> > ------------------------------------
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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