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Re: [Skate] Re: results team pursuit men baselga

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  • Kees de Vroege
    ... I stand corrected then, on dutch TV they spoke about 150 people on Sunday. What is the capacity of the venue? Kees
    Message 1 of 28 , Feb 1, 2005
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      >>Actually the crowd in Kearns for the World Sprints was
      >
      > surprisingly large -
      >
      >>a near sellout on Saturday, I'd guess...and a good
      >>75% as full on Sunday
      >
      >>(which in Utah is a tough day to sell tickets to anything).
      >>
      >
      >
      > Pat, I was there and saturday was packed! We were commenting on
      > how full it was and we had a hard time saving seats for some
      > friends. Sunday wasn't quite a full but I would guess 75-85%

      I stand corrected then, on dutch TV they spoke about
      150 people on Sunday.
      What is the capacity of the venue?

      Kees
    • Jeroen Heijmans
      ... I find that Dutch TV is not the most reliable source on spectator figures. They always seem to expect 10,000 - no matter what race and when it is held.
      Message 2 of 28 , Feb 1, 2005
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        Kees de Vroege wrote:

        >I stand corrected then, on dutch TV they spoke about
        >150 people on Sunday.
        >
        >
        I find that Dutch TV is not the most reliable source on spectator
        figures. They always seem to expect 10,000 - no matter what race and
        when it is held. Mart Smeets usually complains when Heerenveen isn't
        filled on a weekday afternoon or evening.
      • Greg
        ... Kees, I m not sure of the total capacity. But it is much less than Heerenveen, where I will be going in a few weeks! It s also less than during the
        Message 3 of 28 , Feb 1, 2005
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          > I stand corrected then, on dutch TV they spoke about
          > 150 people on Sunday.
          > What is the capacity of the venue?
          >
          > Kees

          Kees, I'm not sure of the total capacity. But it is much less
          than Heerenveen, where I will be going in a few weeks! It's also
          less than during the olympics because they had stands only down the
          front straight and around part of the corners. The stands also
          seemed to be shorter than during the olympics.

          Greg
        • T.B. Hansen
          ... It shouldn t. But according to interviews I ve read, there s several skaters out there who think two races in one day is dangerous... ... Even a blind hen
          Message 4 of 28 , Feb 1, 2005
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            Jon G.:

            > Well, I don't think there is a real danger there. It should not be
            > very difficult to focus a little more on the team pursuit, without
            > hurting the skater's efforts on the individual distances.

            It shouldn't. But according to interviews I've read, there's several skaters
            out there who think two races in one day is dangerous...

            > Perhaps. But then even a blind hen might be able to find a
            > golden egg once in a while...

            "Even a blind hen might lay the big egg.."

            > Yes, but the team pursuit is now being artificially lighted in a
            > heated greenhouse (although not on maximum heat for the moment)
            > unlike for instance the relay-events of the past.

            The relays were run in National Championships (in Norway and other places)
            for years. The results shows a decreasing interest, starting with the cubs'
            best skaters in the first year; ending up with C teams.

            > the almost massive butchering
            > it gets from die-hard fans puzzles me.

            1: The team pursuits are arranged in a format that differs from other speed
            skating events. Most important it's a team event in a highly individual
            sport; besides, the competitors don't start side by side, but on different
            sides of the rink.

            2: The results don't fit into the firm system of points and statistics
            that's keep the die-hard speed skating fan going.

            3: The explicit reason for introducing the pursuit, was that the current
            format was out-dated and that the sport had to change. This indicates that
            the pursuit format (or lack of format, from a traditionalist point of view)
            will be applied to other events. Which means that the people responsible for
            the pursuit actually wants a totally different sport (unless one believes in
            "speed skating" as a Platonic idea, that will consist whatever is done to
            the format or the practical organizations of the events.


            --------------------

            T.B.Hansen

            Jens Bjelkes gate 7
            N-0562 Oslo, Norway

            Tel +47 22 37 21 50
            +47 924 49 575

            speedskating@...
            www.skyggespill.no
          • Marcel Warnaar
            They had built a stage in the corner for Mart Smeets alone (and a camera-man) . If they had built stands there, at least 200 spectators more could have found a
            Message 5 of 28 , Feb 1, 2005
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              They had built a stage in the corner for Mart Smeets alone (and a
              camera-man) . If they had built stands there, at least 200 spectators more
              could have found a seat.

              The stands were quite filled, but in the city of Salt Lake City there was no
              publicity whatsoever. No banners, no what to do this weekend in SLC. Cab
              drivers ("where did you say it was?"), hotel personnel, waitresses, Mormon
              library helpers. None of them knew there was a World Championship going on.
              The flight attendant on the trip back: "Yeah, I am living near that track. I
              already wondered why it was so crowded past weekend....".

              Marcel

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Jeroen Heijmans" <skate@...>
              To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:33 AM
              Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: results team pursuit men baselga


              >
              > Kees de Vroege wrote:
              >
              >>I stand corrected then, on dutch TV they spoke about
              >>150 people on Sunday.
              >>
              >>
              > I find that Dutch TV is not the most reliable source on spectator
              > figures. They always seem to expect 10,000 - no matter what race and
              > when it is held. Mart Smeets usually complains when Heerenveen isn't
              > filled on a weekday afternoon or evening.
              >
              >
            • Jos Kloppenborg
              ... From: Marcel van Dieren To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 5:41 PM Subject: [Skate] Re: results
              Message 6 of 28 , Feb 1, 2005
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                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Marcel van Dieren" <mvdieren1968@...>
                To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 5:41 PM
                Subject: [Skate] Re: results team pursuit men baselga


                >
                >
                >>
                >> All I am saying, is give the team pursuit a chance...
                >>
                >> jg
                >
                > Hear hear!! And this goes for other initiatives as well I think. We
                > are far too conservative and almost "afraid" of change most of the
                > time. I think the only way to REALLY try out new disciplines in
                > speedskating is to give them official status and keep them for a few
                > years. Giving them an experimental or even official only within the
                > world cup just doesn't seem to give a good picture to decide on for
                > the future. So I second: let's give the team pursuit a chance!
                >
                > PS. And the 100m as well as far as I'm concerned. Let it be part of
                > the WCh distances and maybe even the WCh Sprint (I think 100, 2x500
                > and 1000 is more about real sprinting than the present setup).
                > Just one thing about this 100m: make it more exciting! Look at the
                > way for example the 100 metres in athletics are hold.
                > And to make speedskating more attractive and generate more attention
                > look at what the international Bobsleigh union does together with
                > Eurosport! I think speedskating can learn from this. Lots of media
                > coverage and an interesting way of presenting it!
                >
                > Marcel.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Jos Kloppenborg
                ... Mart Smeets remark about 150 people was about the number of people that stayed there till the closing ceremony.
                Message 7 of 28 , Feb 1, 2005
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                  >> Yet only the American incrowd,
                  >> family and listmembers, some dutch fans were there and that was it.
                  >
                  > Actually the crowd in Kearns for the World Sprints was surprisingly
                  > large -
                  > a near sellout on Saturday, I'd guess...and a good 75% as full on Sunday
                  > (which in Utah is a tough day to sell tickets to anything).
                  >
                  Mart Smeets' remark about '150 people' was about the number of people that
                  stayed there till the closing ceremony.
                • jon_gauslaa
                  ... The Olympic Games are perhaps a slightly bigger greenhouse than the national championships. ... The format is a blueprint of the team event in track
                  Message 8 of 28 , Feb 1, 2005
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                    Me:

                    > > Yes, but the team pursuit is now being artificially lighted in a
                    > > heated greenhouse (although not on maximum heat for the moment)
                    > > unlike for instance the relay-events of the past.

                    TB:
                    > The relays were run in National Championships (in Norway and other
                    > places) for years. The results shows a decreasing interest,
                    > starting with the cubs' best skaters in the first year; ending up
                    > with C teams.

                    The Olympic Games are perhaps a slightly bigger greenhouse than the
                    national championships.

                    > > the almost massive butchering
                    > > it gets from die-hard fans puzzles me.

                    > 1: The team pursuits are arranged in a format that differs from
                    > other speed skating events. Most important it's a team event in a
                    > highly individual sport;

                    The format is a blueprint of the team event in track cycling, but so
                    what? How come most other individual sports actually has a team event?
                    I can't see the problem with speed-skating having the same?

                    > the competitors don't start side by side, but on different sides
                    > of the rink.

                    Relevance? By the way, the competitors don't start side by side on
                    the 1000, 1500, 3000 og 5000m either.

                    > 3: The explicit reason for introducing the pursuit, was that the
                    > current format was out-dated and that the sport had to change.

                    Source?

                    > This indicates that the pursuit format (or lack of format, from a
                    > traditionalist point of view) will be applied to other events.
                    > Which means that the people responsible for the pursuit actually
                    > wants a totally different sport.

                    Well, I simply don't believe in the big conspiration.


                    jg
                  • Patrick Seltsam
                    TB said, regarding the pursuit; ... And I reply; The general principle behind the team pursuit CAN and SHOULD be tweaked to fit said firm system. In fact, I
                    Message 9 of 28 , Feb 1, 2005
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                      TB said, regarding the pursuit;

                      > 2: The results don't fit into the firm system of points and statistics
                      > that's keep the die-hard speed skating fan going.

                      And I reply;

                      The general principle behind the team pursuit CAN and SHOULD be tweaked to
                      fit said firm system. In fact, I think the biggest shortcoming in the
                      current team pursuit format is that it does not.

                      The team pursuit should be of a standard distance which is divisible by 500m
                      so that it can be manipulated into a samalog format. I suggest 4000m. Yes,
                      a mid turn start would be required in order to keep the race on the current
                      inner lane with a mid-straight finish. I don't see that as a big
                      problem...it's just another skill teams will have to learn.

                      I am not a real big fan of the multiple round system planned for the
                      Olympics for two reasons; 1.) It does deviate from the general principles of
                      Olympic Style skating and 2.) It isn't the format used in World Cup at all.
                      If ISU really wants teams to learn and execute the Olympic knock-out format,
                      they need to run the event that way as many times as they can prior to the
                      Olympics. I am not sure what the SDW format will be, but even if that is
                      the knock-out format, once prior to the Olympics is just not enough.

                      Pat S
                    • World Cup Speedskating Contest
                      ... Then it s odd that so many(?) people left, considering that an American Champion was crowned. Didn t the Americans care? Kees
                      Message 10 of 28 , Feb 1, 2005
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                        Jos Kloppenborg wrote:
                        >
                        > >> Yet only the American incrowd,
                        > >> family and listmembers, some dutch fans were there and that was it.
                        > >
                        > > Actually the crowd in Kearns for the World Sprints was surprisingly
                        > > large -
                        > > a near sellout on Saturday, I'd guess...and a good 75% as full on Sunday
                        > > (which in Utah is a tough day to sell tickets to anything).
                        > >
                        > Mart Smeets' remark about '150 people' was about the number of people that
                        > stayed there till the closing ceremony.

                        Then it's odd that so many(?) people left, considering that an American
                        Champion was crowned. Didn't the Americans care?

                        Kees
                      • Greg
                        ... people that ... American ... A lot of people left right after the women skated and more right after the men! Not a lot stayed for the overall medals
                        Message 11 of 28 , Feb 1, 2005
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                          > > Mart Smeets' remark about '150 people' was about the number of
                          people that
                          > > stayed there till the closing ceremony.
                          >
                          > Then it's odd that so many(?) people left, considering that an
                          American
                          > Champion was crowned. Didn't the Americans care?
                          >
                          > Kees

                          A lot of people left right after the women skated and more right
                          after the men! Not a lot stayed for the overall medals ceremony and
                          the victory lap(ride). I see the same thing all the time at Miami
                          Heat(NBA) games where I have had season tickets for 17 years.
                          People show up late and leave with 2 or 3 minutes left even in a
                          close game! I've never been able to figure out why anyone would go
                          to a game or race and be in such a hurry to leave. I always stay
                          till the end and then some!

                          Greg
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