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Re: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.

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  • Joe
    I m gonna step in from afar (China) and suggest ye join one of Jose s or Josh s or the Okee rides so you can see the different bents up close and
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 1, 2008
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      I'm gonna step in from afar (China) and suggest ye join one of Jose's
      or Josh's or the Okee rides so you can see the different bents up
      close and personal....I'm will'n to bet someone will actually let you
      test ride one in a big ol empty parking lot.

      For storage you'll be better off with a SWB. Visit Josh and the
      Bicycle Spot and take a look at what's there. Either one will be a
      bunch heavier than your current DF and a bit more unwieldly, but the
      comfort and grin factor or worth it.

      Price: Go to www.bentrideronline.com and check out the classifieds.
      You can find a great Giro20 for under $1,000 and a Volae or Bacchetta
      highracer for $1,000 to $1,400 easy.

      Speed: Given the headwinds in Florida you'll love a bent....you
      really do not feel them near as much as on a DF. And after getting
      your "bent legs" you'll be as fast or faster.

      Slo "Who's bought more than his share of used bents" Joe

      --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, "mcgavind"
      <mcgavind@...> wrote:
      >
      > HI all. I am a 63 year old bike commuter (6' and 210) and have been
      > commuting by upright for about 10 years, on and off, mostly "on"
      this
      > year and last as my partner and I have gone to one car and only put
      on
      > necessary miles. I ride 60-80 miles a week from West Delray Beach
      to
      > Boca Raton and would like to ride more, but -- and you know what's
      > coming -- my triangle or wedgie bike is beginning to get to me.
      > Arthritis, etc, etc.
      >
      > So, I'd like to switch, but being a community college teacher
      doesn't
      > lend itself to 4k bikes. I only have room to store one bike in my
      > closet (small condo, what can I say) and so I have been looking at
      > used bikes on Craig's list. But, and here I finally get to my
      > question, how can I preserve the road bike feel that I love
      (efficient
      > speed) and still have an inexpensive bent that will commute?
      >
      > I am riding a Lemond Tourmolet, aluminum with a carbon fork, and
      love
      > it in terms of fit and speed. It is the pressure points that get to
      > me. I am in no hurry as I will still ride the short distances to
      > school without much problem, but sometime in the next year, I want
      to
      > change over. I have been to Atlantic and tried out a couple of
      bikes,
      > but not for long enough. Here are some questions that a short ride
      > won't answer:
      >
      > 1)I am attracted to Cruizebike's Silvio, but can't find many
      reviews.
      > I like the fact that you can order the frame and then use the 700c
      > wheelset and Ultegra drivetrain. It will fit on a regular bike
      > carrier. How well are these bikes regarded in the bent community?
      >
      > 2)I have heard Easy Racers are great if they are light weight enough
      > and faired (usually that means $), but I don't think I can store it
      in
      > the closet. Some come in two parts, but are they strong enough?
      >
      > 3)Bachetta high racer looks like a fast bike and is storable, but
      how
      > does it compare in terms of speed and handling to my upright? Being
      a
      > more efficient rider, the corsa looks good, but will the riding
      > position interfere with riding in the city or on long rides?
      >
      > Anyone with experiences as a commuter and as a lover of efficient
      > speed (watts to quick forward motion), please give me some advice.
      I'd
      > like this next bike to last me a while. I can't afford to spend
      > thousands every other year.
      >
      > Also, and this is unrelated, why is it that the bent and unbent
      bikies
      > are so separate? There is a big group of Boca Raton club members,
      but
      > no bents that I know of.
      >
      > Looking forward to meeting you and reading your replies.
      >
    • BentWheeler@AOL.com
      I think you ve received good advice from some of our members. I m going to go ahead and stick my head out on this one. Since it seems you are a commuter, then
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 1, 2008
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        I think you've received good advice from some of our members. I'm going to go ahead and stick my head out on this one. Since it seems you are a commuter, then I think your bike should be one that is "commuter" friendly. Thus, I would NOT recommend a High Racer!!! A Short Wheel Base and/or a Compact Long Wheel Base will likely be a better commuter. Long wheel base bikes are fine for commuting too but they don't fit inside a closet.

        Welcome to our dysfunctional club!!!

        Jose A. Hernandez
        Bent Cycling Means NEVER Having to say you're sore!
        ___________________________________________________________
        A NEW, IMPROVED Cycling Solutions Coming SOON to a web browser near you!
        http://www.CyclingSolutions.com
        http://www.getbent.org


        -----Original Message-----
        From: mcgavind <mcgavind@...>
        To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 1:28 pm
        Subject: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.

        HI all. I am a 63 year old bike commuter (6' and 210) and have been
        commuting by upright for about 10 years, on and off, mostly "on" this
        year and last as my partner and I have gone to one car and only put on
        necessary miles. I ride 60-80 miles a week from West Delray Beach to
        Boca Raton and would like to ride more, but -- and you know what's
        coming -- my triangle or wedgie bike is beginning to get to me.
        Arthritis, etc, etc.

        So, I'd like to switch, but being a community college teacher doesn't
        lend itself to 4k bikes. I only have room to store one bike in my
        closet (small condo, what can I say) and so I have been looking at
        used bikes on Craig's list. But, and here I finally get to my
        question, how can I preserve the road bike feel that I love (efficient
        speed) and still have an inexpensive bent that will commute?

        I am riding a Lemond Tourmolet, aluminum with a carbon fork, and love
        it in terms of fit and speed. It is the pressure points that get to
        me. I am in no hurry as I will still ride the short distances to
        school without much problem, but sometime in the next year, I want to
        change over. I have been to Atlantic and tried out a couple of bikes,
        but not for long enough. Here are some questions that a short ride
        won't answer:

        1)I am attracted to Cruizebike's Silvio, but can't find many reviews.
        I like the fact that you can order the frame and then use the 700c
        wheelset and Ultegra drivetrain. It will fit on a regular bike
        carrier. How well are these bikes regarded in the bent community?

        2)I have heard Easy Racers are great if they are light weight enough
        and faired (usually that means $), but I don't think I can store it in
        the closet. Some come in two parts, but are they strong enough?

        3)Bachetta high racer looks like a fast bike and is storable, but how
        does it compare in terms of speed and handling to my upright? Being a
        more efficient rider, the corsa looks good, but will the riding
        position interfere with riding in the city or on long rides?

        Anyone with experiences as a commuter and as a lover of efficient
        speed (watts to quick forward motion), please give me some advice. I'd
        like this next bike to last me a while. I can't afford to spend
        thousands every other year.

        Also, and this is unrelated, why is it that the bent and unbent bikies
        are so separate? There is a big group of Boca Raton club members, but
        no bents that I know of.

        Looking forward to meeting you and reading your replies.

      • Ted
        I guess I ll add my own $0.02 to the great advice offered so far... Sorry to muddy the water but my experience with highracers differs from Jose s. I value and
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 1, 2008
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          I guess I'll add my own $0.02 to the great advice offered so far...

          Sorry to muddy the water but my experience with highracers differs
          from Jose's. I value and respect Jose's most learned opinion (though
          this time I think he's wrong).

          I've been commuting via my Bacchetta Strada highracer (with the
          standard mesh seat - not the Euromesh) for about 2 years now. My most
          direct route from home to work (Boynton Bch to W Palm Bch) is 17
          miles. When the weather's nice the the ride home is often a bit
          longer. I ride a mix of sidewalk (5m), paved bike path (2m), and road
          (10m). I deal with traffic lights, intersections, pedestrians, and
          varying levels of traffic density.

          Because of the comfortable and natural body position of the Strada my
          commute has become the favorite part of my day. I ride fully reclined
          and have had no problems maneuvering or putting my feet down at stops.
          If I find I have to do some "tight squeeze" riding around an
          obstruction I may pull up off of the seat back to achieve a precision
          approaching that of a DF bike, but that's rarely necessary.

          The bike is fast to start with, and with the lack of pain I find I
          ride longer and get stronger. There is no problem keeping up with the
          DF's. Most have been friendly but I don't try to mix in with the big
          club rides. I've been told that I don't create much draft. Also, the
          following rider often cannot see your feet to gauge how hard you're
          pedaling.

          I think that Jose's (and others) difficulty with highracer commuting
          may be more a fit issue. At my height, just over 6 ft, I don't have
          any problem putting my feet on the ground.

          Your results may vary so it is very important to get an extended test
          ride before making your decision. Both Josh at Atlantic Bike and
          Payton at the Bicycle Spot are very accommodating and will help you
          find what is right for you. Try the Volae at Josh's shop and be sure
          to try a Bacchetta at Payton's.

          Good luck and I hope to see you on some of our future rides.

          Ted

          --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, BentWheeler@... wrote:
          >
          > I think you've received good advice from some of our members. I'm
          going to go ahead and stick my head out on this one. Since it seems
          you are a commuter, then I think your bike should be one that is
          "commuter" friendly. Thus, I would NOT recommend a High Racer!!! A
          Short Wheel Base and/or a Compact Long Wheel Base will likely be a
          better commuter. Long wheel base bikes are fine for commuting too but
          they don't fit inside a closet.
          >
          > Welcome to our dysfunctional club!!!
          >
          >
          > Jose A. Hernandez
          > Bent Cycling Means NEVER Having to say you're sore!
          > ___________________________________________________________
          > A NEW, IMPROVED Cycling Solutions Coming SOON to a web browser near you!
          > http://www.CyclingSolutions.com
          > http://www.getbent.org
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: mcgavind <mcgavind@...>
          > To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 1:28 pm
          > Subject: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > HI all. I am a 63 year old bike commuter (6' and 210) and have been
          > commuting by upright for about 10 years, on and off, mostly "on" this
          > year and last as my partner and I have gone to one car and only put on
          > necessary miles. I ride 60-80 miles a week from West Delray Beach to
          > Boca Raton and would like to ride more, but -- and you know what's
          > coming -- my triangle or wedgie bike is beginning to get to me.
          > Arthritis, etc, etc.
          >
          > So, I'd like to switch, but being a community college teacher doesn't
          > lend itself to 4k bikes. I only have room to store one bike in my
          > closet (small condo, what can I say) and so I have been looking at
          > used bikes on Craig's list. But, and here I finally get to my
          > question, how can I preserve the road bike feel that I love (efficient
          > speed) and still have an inexpensive bent that will commute?
          >
          > I am riding a Lemond Tourmolet, aluminum with a carbon fork, and love
          > it in terms of fit and speed. It is the pressure points that get to
          > me. I am in no hurry as I will still ride the short distances to
          > school without much problem, but sometime in the next year, I want to
          > change over. I have been to Atlantic and tried out a couple of bikes,
          > but not for long enough. Here are some questions that a short ride
          > won't answer:
          >
          > 1)I am attracted to Cruizebike's Silvio, but can't find many reviews.
          > I like the fact that you can order the frame and then use the 700c
          > wheelset and Ultegra drivetrain. It will fit on a regular bike
          > carrier. How well are these bikes regarded in the bent community?
          >
          > 2)I have heard Easy Racers are great if they are light weight enough
          > and faired (usually that means $), but I don't think I can store it in
          > the closet. Some come in two parts, but are they strong enough?
          >
          > 3)Bachetta high racer looks like a fast bike and is storable, but how
          > does it compare in terms of speed and handling to my upright? Being a
          > more efficient rider, the corsa looks good, but will the riding
          > position interfere with riding in the city or on long rides?
          >
          > Anyone with experiences as a commuter and as a lover of efficient
          > speed (watts to quick forward motion), please give me some advice. I'd
          > like this next bike to last me a while. I can't afford to spend
          > thousands every other year.
          >
          > Also, and this is unrelated, why is it that the bent and unbent bikies
          > are so separate? There is a big group of Boca Raton club members, but
          > no bents that I know of.
          >
          > Looking forward to meeting you and reading your replies.
          >
        • seragram
          ... he failed to notice the man is 6 tall has commuted on a DF the past 10 years and would like to in his own words preserve the road bike feel that I love
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 1, 2008
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            --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, "Ted" <teabone@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I guess I'll add my own $0.02 to the great advice offered so far...
            >
            > Sorry to muddy the water but my experience with highracers differs
            > from Jose's. I value and respect Jose's most learned opinion (though
            > this time I think he's wrong).
            >
            >I agree with you on this one.
            he failed to notice the man is 6' tall
            has commuted on a DF the past 10 years
            and would like to in his own words "preserve the road bike feel that I
            love"
            (efficient speed) and still have an inexpensive bent that will commute?

            In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
            Sergio
          • mcgavind
            Thank you, all of you! Keep it coming! I am a newbie and want to get the right bike this time around. I appreciate the advice I have received so far. When
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 1, 2008
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              Thank you, all of you! Keep it coming! I am a newbie and want to get
              the "right" bike this time around. I appreciate the advice I have
              received so far. When are the rides and from where? How do I find out?
              I have ridden a couple of Atlantic bents around the parking lot (don't
              remember the names, Josh), but I'd love to ride my Lemond with you guys
              to see what it is like "close-up-and-personal" and for a longer time
              frame. Let me know where and when. How many are you , anyway? I'll be
              at Art Basel this Saturday, but after that (assuming I can correct final
              exams in a hurry), I'll be available until the 20th and then after that
              the 1st and from then on til May, when I go to Michigan for the summer.
              Looking forward to it! Oh, BTW, the closet can hold only the size of a
              regular bike; I have been out of the closet so long I can hardly
              remember the dimensions!!


              --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, "seragram"
              <seragram@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, "Ted" teabone@
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > I guess I'll add my own $0.02 to the great advice offered so far...
              > >
              > > Sorry to muddy the water but my experience with highracers differs
              > > from Jose's. I value and respect Jose's most learned opinion (though
              > > this time I think he's wrong).
              > >
              > >I agree with you on this one.
              > he failed to notice the man is 6' tall
              > has commuted on a DF the past 10 years
              > and would like to in his own words "preserve the road bike feel that I
              > love"
              > (efficient speed) and still have an inexpensive bent that will
              commute?
              >
              > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
              > Sergio
              >
            • BentWheeler@AOL.com
              In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer. Sergio And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT close to that two letter word
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 1, 2008
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                In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                Sergio

                And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT close to that two letter word :-)

                Jose A. Hernandez
                Bent Cycling Means NEVER Having to say you're sore!
                ___________________________________________________________
                A NEW, IMPROVED Cycling Solutions Coming SOON to a web browser near you!
                http://www.CyclingSolutions.com
                http://www.getbent.org


                -----Original Message-----
                From: seragram <seragram@...>
                To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 7:02 pm
                Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.

                --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "Ted" <teabone@... >
                wrote:
                >
                > I guess I'll add my own $0.02 to the great advice offered so far...
                >
                > Sorry to muddy the water but my experience with highracers differs
                > from Jose's. I value and respect Jose's most learned opinion (though
                > this time I think he's wrong).
                >
                >I agree with you on this one.
                he failed to notice the man is 6' tall
                has commuted on a DF the past 10 years
                and would like to in his own words "preserve the road bike feel that I
                love"
                (efficient speed) and still have an inexpensive bent that will commute?

                In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                Sergio

              • BentWheeler@AOL.com
                Hey Ted, Come on now. Me WRONG? NEVER. I m always right. Just ask my wife... she ll tell you. On second thought, don t ask her.... But in all seriousness, I
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 1, 2008
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                  Hey Ted,

                  Come on now. Me WRONG? NEVER. I'm always right. Just ask my wife... she'll tell you. On second thought, don't ask her....

                  But in all seriousness, I think it is time to bash high racers. They're too fast, too high and as Sergio says, look almost like a conventional wedgie, which in and of itself, is wrong.

                  As you all know, I used to love my Corsero (a High Racer with a very unique name) but even though I could plant my feet firmly on the ground, I didn't think it handled well on trails where you have lots of tight turns and you may need to bike at a very low speed. The High Racers loved the open straight highways but didn't seem practical for more mundane activities.

                  Jose who is hiding in a bullet proof coffin Hernandez


                  Jose A. Hernandez
                  Bent Cycling Means NEVER Having to say you're sore!
                  ___________________________________________________________
                  A NEW, IMPROVED Cycling Solutions Coming SOON to a web browser near you!
                  http://www.CyclingSolutions.com
                  http://www.getbent.org


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Ted <teabone@...>
                  To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 3:02 pm
                  Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.

                  I guess I'll add my own $0.02 to the great advice offered so far...

                  Sorry to muddy the water but my experience with highracers differs
                  from Jose's. I value and respect Jose's most learned opinion (though
                  this time I think he's wrong).

                  I've been commuting via my Bacchetta Strada highracer (with the
                  standard mesh seat - not the Euromesh) for about 2 years now. My most
                  direct route from home to work (Boynton Bch to W Palm Bch) is 17
                  miles. When the weather's nice the the ride home is often a bit
                  longer. I ride a mix of sidewalk (5m), paved bike path (2m), and road
                  (10m). I deal with traffic lights, intersections, pedestrians, and
                  varying levels of traffic density.

                  Because of the comfortable and natural body position of the Strada my
                  commute has become the favorite part of my day. I ride fully reclined
                  and have had no problems maneuvering or putting my feet down at stops.
                  If I find I have to do some "tight squeeze" riding around an
                  obstruction I may pull up off of the seat back to achieve a precision
                  approaching that of a DF bike, but that's rarely necessary.

                  The bike is fast to start with, and with the lack of pain I find I
                  ride longer and get stronger. There is no problem keeping up with the
                  DF's. Most have been friendly but I don't try to mix in with the big
                  club rides. I've been told that I don't create much draft. Also, the
                  following rider often cannot see your feet to gauge how hard you're
                  pedaling.

                  I think that Jose's (and others) difficulty with highracer commuting
                  may be more a fit issue. At my height, just over 6 ft, I don't have
                  any problem putting my feet on the ground.

                  Your results may vary so it is very important to get an extended test
                  ride before making your decision. Both Josh at Atlantic Bike and
                  Payton at the Bicycle Spot are very accommodating and will help you
                  find what is right for you. Try the Volae at Josh's shop and be sure
                  to try a Bacchetta at Payton's.

                  Good luck and I hope to see you on some of our future rides.

                  Ted

                  --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, BentWheeler@ ... wrote:
                  >
                  > I think you've received good advice from some of our members. I'm
                  going to go ahead and stick my head out on this one. Since it seems
                  you are a commuter, then I think your bike should be one that is
                  "commuter" friendly. Thus, I would NOT recommend a High Racer!!! A
                  Short Wheel Base and/or a Compact Long Wheel Base will likely be a
                  better commuter. Long wheel base bikes are fine for commuting too but
                  they don't fit inside a closet.
                  >
                  > Welcome to our dysfunctional club!!!
                  >
                  >
                  > Jose A. Hernandez
                  > Bent Cycling Means NEVER Having to say you're sore!
                  > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                  > A NEW, IMPROVED Cycling Solutions Coming SOON to a web browser near you!
                  > http://www.CyclingS olutions. com
                  > http://www.getbent. org
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: mcgavind <mcgavind@.. .>
                  > To: SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com
                  > Sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 1:28 pm
                  > Subject: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > HI all. I am a 63 year old bike commuter (6' and 210) and have been
                  > commuting by upright for about 10 years, on and off, mostly "on" this
                  > year and last as my partner and I have gone to one car and only put on
                  > necessary miles. I ride 60-80 miles a week from West Delray Beach to
                  > Boca Raton and would like to ride more, but -- and you know what's
                  > coming -- my triangle or wedgie bike is beginning to get to me.
                  > Arthritis, etc, etc.
                  >
                  > So, I'd like to switch, but being a community college teacher doesn't
                  > lend itself to 4k bikes. I only have room to store one bike in my
                  > closet (small condo, what can I say) and so I have been looking at
                  > used bikes on Craig's list. But, and here I finally get to my
                  > question, how can I preserve the road bike feel that I love (efficient
                  > speed) and still have an inexpensive bent that will commute?
                  >
                  > I am riding a Lemond Tourmolet, aluminum with a carbon fork, and love
                  > it in terms of fit and speed. It is the pressure points that get to
                  > me. I am in no hurry as I will still ride the short distances to
                  > school without much problem, but sometime in the next year, I want to
                  > change over. I have been to Atlantic and tried out a couple of bikes,
                  > but not for long enough. Here are some questions that a short ride
                  > won't answer:
                  >
                  > 1)I am attracted to Cruizebike's Silvio, but can't find many reviews.
                  > I like the fact that you can order the frame and then use the 700c
                  > wheelset and Ultegra drivetrain. It will fit on a regular bike
                  > carrier. How well are these bikes regarded in the bent community?
                  >
                  > 2)I have heard Easy Racers are great if they are light weight enough
                  > and faired (usually that means $), but I don't think I can store it in
                  > the closet. Some come in two parts, but are they strong enough?
                  >
                  > 3)Bachetta high racer looks like a fast bike and is storable, but how
                  > does it compare in terms of speed and handling to my upright? Being a
                  > more efficient rider, the corsa looks good, but will the riding
                  > position interfere with riding in the city or on long rides?
                  >
                  > Anyone with experiences as a commuter and as a lover of efficient
                  > speed (watts to quick forward motion), please give me some advice. I'd
                  > like this next bike to last me a while. I can't afford to spend
                  > thousands every other year.
                  >
                  > Also, and this is unrelated, why is it that the bent and unbent bikies
                  > are so separate? There is a big group of Boca Raton club members, but
                  > no bents that I know of.
                  >
                  > Looking forward to meeting you and reading your replies.
                  >

                • ET Williams
                  Greetings, you have been given excellent advise by all involved. The best thing to do is to get involved and Okeehelee park is a  good place to start. We are
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 1, 2008
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                    Greetings, you have been given excellent advise by all involved. The best thing to do is to get involved and Okeehelee park is a  good place to start. We are small group that rides most Saturday mornings, rides are based on smiles and camaraderie rather than speed and distance.
                      You will fit in well with your diamond frame as I also ride a bionic diamond frame when not riding my custom recumbent and my custom recumbent is smaller & faster than my diamond frame.
                      Choosing the right recumbent is a difficult task, I have made the wrong choice twice with bikes that were no fun, and sold them at a substantial loss.       ..................ET
                     
                                
                      

                    --- On Mon, 12/1/08, mcgavind <mcgavind@...> wrote:
                    From: mcgavind <mcgavind@...>
                    Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.
                    To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 9:28 PM

                    Thank you, all of you! Keep it coming! I am a newbie and want to get
                    the "right" bike this time around. I appreciate the advice I have
                    received so far. When are the rides and from where? How do I find out?
                    I have ridden a couple of Atlantic bents around the parking lot (don't
                    remember the names, Josh), but I'd love to ride my Lemond with you guys
                    to see what it is like "close-up-and- personal" and for a longer time
                    frame. Let me know where and when. How many are you , anyway? I'll be
                    at Art Basel this Saturday, but after that (assuming I can correct final
                    exams in a hurry), I'll be available until the 20th and then after that
                    the 1st and from then on til May, when I go to Michigan for the summer.
                    Looking forward to it! Oh, BTW, the closet can hold only the size of a
                    regular bike; I have been out of the closet so long I can hardly
                    remember the dimensions!!

                    --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "seragram"
                    <seragram@.. .> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "Ted" teabone@
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I guess I'll add my own $0.02 to the great advice offered so far...
                    > >
                    > > Sorry to muddy the water but my experience with highracers differs
                    > > from Jose's. I value and respect Jose's most learned opinion (though
                    > > this time I think he's wrong).
                    > >
                    > >I agree with you on this one.
                    > he failed to notice the man is 6' tall
                    > has commuted on a DF the past 10 years
                    > and would like to in his own words "preserve the road bike feel that I
                    > love"
                    > (efficient speed) and still have an inexpensive bent that will
                    commute?
                    >
                    > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                    > Sergio
                    >


                  • seragram
                    ... two letter word :-) I know that Hose. But this is about what mcgavind said he wanted in his original post. We can start another thread about what Hose
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 1, 2008
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                      --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, BentWheeler@...
                      wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                      > Sergio
                      >
                      >
                      > And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT close to that
                      two letter word :-)

                      I know that Hose. But this is about what "mcgavind" said he wanted in
                      his original post. We can start another thread about what Hose likes to
                      ride.
                      Sergio (I think that was a shot LOL)
                    • BentWheeler@AOL.com
                      Let s not. It would be more fun to pick on Sergio. While we re at it, we may consider picking on Ted too but he s a pretty big guy and has been doing about 300
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 2, 2008
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                        Let's not. It would be more fun to pick on Sergio. While we're at it, we may consider picking on Ted too but he's a pretty big guy and has been doing about 300 miles per week on his HIGHRACER so.... I better get in shape or hire a body guard before I post a PICK ON TED comment.
                        I know that Hose. But this is about what "mcgavind" said he wanted in
                        his original post. We can start another thread about what Hose likes to
                        ride.


                        Jose A. Hernandez
                        Bent Cycling Means NEVER Having to say you're sore!
                        ___________________________________________________________
                        A NEW, IMPROVED Cycling Solutions Coming SOON to a web browser near you!
                        http://www.CyclingSolutions.com
                        http://www.getbent.org


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: seragram <seragram@...>
                        To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 12:16 am
                        Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.

                        --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, BentWheeler@ ...
                        wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                        > Sergio
                        >
                        >
                        > And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT close to that
                        two letter word :-)

                        I know that Hose. But this is about what "mcgavind" said he wanted in
                        his original post. We can start another thread about what Hose likes to
                        ride.
                        Sergio (I think that was a shot LOL)

                      • BentWheeler@AOL.com
                        also ride a bionic diamond frame Hey ET, Please post pics and details about your BIONIC DF. Did the Million Dollar Man sell it to you? Jose A. Hernandez Bent
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 2, 2008
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                          also ride a bionic diamond frame
                          Hey ET,

                          Please post pics and details about your BIONIC DF. Did the Million Dollar Man sell it to you?

                          Jose A. Hernandez
                          Bent Cycling Means NEVER Having to say you're sore!
                          ___________________________________________________________
                          A NEW, IMPROVED Cycling Solutions Coming SOON to a web browser near you!
                          http://www.CyclingSolutions.com
                          http://www.getbent.org


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: ET Williams <etwwinc@...>
                          To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:15 pm
                          Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.

                          Greetings, you have been given excellent advise by all involved. The best thing to do is to get involved and Okeehelee park is a  good place to start. We are small group that rides most Saturday mornings, rides are based on smiles and camaraderie rather than speed and distance.
                            You will fit in well with your diamond frame as I also ride a bionic diamond frame when not riding my custom recumbent and my custom recumbent is smaller & faster than my diamond frame.
                            Choosing the right recumbent is a difficult task, I have made the wrong choice twice with bikes that were no fun, and sold them at a substantial loss.       ............ ......ET
                           
                                      
                            

                          --- On Mon, 12/1/08, mcgavind <mcgavind@yahoo. com> wrote:
                          From: mcgavind <mcgavind@yahoo. com>
                          Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.
                          To: SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com
                          Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 9:28 PM

                          Thank you, all of you! Keep it coming! I am a newbie and want to get
                          the "right" bike this time around. I appreciate the advice I have
                          received so far. When are the rides and from where? How do I find out?
                          I have ridden a couple of Atlantic bents around the parking lot (don't
                          remember the names, Josh), but I'd love to ride my Lemond with you guys
                          to see what it is like "close-up-and- personal" and for a longer time
                          frame. Let me know where and when. How many are you , anyway? I'll be
                          at Art Basel this Saturday, but after that (assuming I can correct final
                          exams in a hurry), I'll be available until the 20th and then after that
                          the 1st and from then on til May, when I go to Michigan for the summer.
                          Looking forward to it! Oh, BTW, the closet can hold only the size of a
                          regular bike; I have been out of the closet so long I can hardly
                          remember the dimensions!!

                          --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "seragram"
                          <seragram@.. .> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "Ted" teabone@
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I guess I'll add my own $0.02 to the great advice offered so far...
                          > >
                          > > Sorry to muddy the water but my experience with highracers differs
                          > > from Jose's. I value and respect Jose's most learned opinion (though
                          > > this time I think he's wrong).
                          > >
                          > >I agree with you on this one.
                          > he failed to notice the man is 6' tall
                          > has commuted on a DF the past 10 years
                          > and would like to in his own words "preserve the road bike feel that I
                          > love"
                          > (efficient speed) and still have an inexpensive bent that will
                          commute?
                          >
                          > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                          > Sergio
                          >


                        • ET Williams
                          Pictures were posted on the web site last year when I got the super wedgie, it s the red bike behind my custom recumbent. Inside of it s thin wall extruded
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 2, 2008
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                            Pictures were posted on the web site last year when I got the super wedgie, it's the red bike behind my custom recumbent. Inside of it's thin wall extruded aluminum frame is a $400.00 lithium ion cell pack that activates a servo motor in the rear hub, that can only be activated by pedaling (pedal assist) the bike accelerates like a rocket but the top speed is only a little over 20mph not as fast as my recumbent or most other upper end bents, but none of them can accelerate with it.  I have rode it over 30miles on a single charge but then again I can ride it like a Rip Stick and skate rather than pedal. The Bionic model above mine has a top speed of over 30mph and a 60 mile range for a few thousand dollars more.
                             
                                                                           Enjoy the Ride.....................ET.
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             On Tue, 12/2/08, BentWheeler@... <BentWheeler@...> wrote:
                            From: BentWheeler@... <BentWheeler@...>
                            Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.
                            To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 5:24 AM


                            also ride a bionic diamond frame
                            Hey ET,

                            Please post pics and details about your BIONIC DF. Did the Million Dollar Man sell it to you?

                            Jose A. Hernandez
                            Bent Cycling Means NEVER Having to say you're sore!
                            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                            A NEW, IMPROVED Cycling Solutions Coming SOON to a web browser near you!
                            http://www.CyclingS olutions. com
                            http://www.getbent. org


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: ET Williams <etwwinc@yahoo. com>
                            To: SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:15 pm
                            Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.

                            Greetings, you have been given excellent advise by all involved. The best thing to do is to get involved and Okeehelee park is a  good place to start. We are small group that rides most Saturday mornings, rides are based on smiles and camaraderie rather than speed and distance.
                              You will fit in well with your diamond frame as I also ride a bionic diamond frame when not riding my custom recumbent and my custom recumbent is smaller & faster than my diamond frame.
                              Choosing the right recumbent is a difficult task, I have made the wrong choice twice with bikes that were no fun, and sold them at a substantial loss.       ............ ......ET
                             
                                        
                              

                            --- On Mon, 12/1/08, mcgavind <mcgavind@yahoo. com> wrote:
                            From: mcgavind <mcgavind@yahoo. com>
                            Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.
                            To: SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com
                            Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 9:28 PM

                            Thank you, all of you! Keep it coming! I am a newbie and want to get
                            the "right" bike this time around. I appreciate the advice I have
                            received so far. When are the rides and from where? How do I find out?
                            I have ridden a couple of Atlantic bents around the parking lot (don't
                            remember the names, Josh), but I'd love to ride my Lemond with you guys
                            to see what it is like "close-up-and- personal" and for a longer time
                            frame. Let me know where and when. How many are you , anyway? I'll be
                            at Art Basel this Saturday, but after that (assuming I can correct final
                            exams in a hurry), I'll be available until the 20th and then after that
                            the 1st and from then on til May, when I go to Michigan for the summer.
                            Looking forward to it! Oh, BTW, the closet can hold only the size of a
                            regular bike; I have been out of the closet so long I can hardly
                            remember the dimensions!!

                            --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "seragram"
                            <seragram@.. .> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "Ted" teabone@
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I guess I'll add my own $0.02 to the great advice offered so far...
                            > >
                            > > Sorry to muddy the water but my experience with highracers differs
                            > > from Jose's. I value and respect Jose's most learned opinion (though
                            > > this time I think he's wrong).
                            > >
                            > >I agree with you on this one.
                            > he failed to notice the man is 6' tall
                            > has commuted on a DF the past 10 years
                            > and would like to in his own words "preserve the road bike feel that I
                            > love"
                            > (efficient speed) and still have an inexpensive bent that will
                            commute?
                            >
                            > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                            > Sergio
                            >



                          • Daniel McGavin
                            Jose, I enjoyed your blog. Dan McGavin ________________________________ From: BentWheeler@AOL.com To:
                            Message 13 of 28 , Dec 2, 2008
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                              Jose, I enjoyed your blog.
                               
                              Dan McGavin



                              From: "BentWheeler@..." <BentWheeler@...>
                              To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, December 1, 2008 10:17:03 PM
                              Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.


                              In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                              Sergio

                              And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT close to that two letter word :-)

                              Jose A. Hernandez
                              Bent Cycling Means NEVER Having to say you're sore!
                              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                              A NEW, IMPROVED Cycling Solutions Coming SOON to a web browser near you!
                              http://www.CyclingS olutions. com
                              http://www.getbent. org


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: seragram <seragram@yahoo. com>
                              To: SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 7:02 pm
                              Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.

                              --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "Ted" <teabone@... >
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > I guess I'll add my own $0.02 to the great advice offered so far...
                              >
                              > Sorry to muddy the water but my experience with highracers differs
                              > from Jose's. I value and respect Jose's most learned opinion (though
                              > this time I think he's wrong).
                              >
                              >I agree with you on this one.
                              he failed to notice the man is 6' tall
                              has commuted on a DF the past 10 years
                              and would like to in his own words "preserve the road bike feel that I
                              love"
                              (efficient speed) and still have an inexpensive bent that will commute?

                              In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                              Sergio


                            • Ted
                              Hose, While I humbly defer to your keen intellect, vastly superior knowledge, and many many many many years of recumbent experience, I still think that
                              Message 14 of 28 , Dec 2, 2008
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                                Hose,

                                While I humbly defer to your keen intellect, vastly superior
                                knowledge, and many many many many years of recumbent experience, I
                                still think that McGavinD might soon be disappointed with anything
                                slower than a highracer. However, your criticisms are valid. I just
                                think that the benefits outweigh the liabilities.

                                Recap follows for McGavinD:

                                Hose said: "I didn't think it handled well on trails where you have
                                lots of tight turns and you may need to bike at a very low speed."

                                - This is true to a degree, especially if you ride it in it's most
                                efficient, very reclined position. In this laid back position you lose
                                the view of the ground directly ahead of your front wheel and you are
                                not able to employ body english for tricky maneuvers. I've cultivated
                                a kind of "look ahead" peripheral-type vision that allows me to
                                anticipate, mostly obviating the need to see the front wheel on the
                                pavement.

                                In cases where I need to "thread a needle", I unclip at least one foot
                                (sometimes both) and lean forward off the seat back. With the short
                                wheelbase of the highracer (pretty close to that of a DF), in this
                                position I find that I have very near the handling of a DF (pls pardon
                                the profanity) including body english. It doesn't happen all that
                                often, but has become second nature to me when needed.

                                Joe said: "I'm gonna step in from afar (China) and suggest ye join one
                                of Jose's or Josh's or the Okee rides so you can see the different
                                bents up close and personal....I'm will'n to bet someone will actually
                                let you test ride one in a big ol empty parking lot."

                                - I heartily second this. Actually, ride multiple times before
                                deciding, if you can. Since the balance and the muscle groups used are
                                different, it take a bit of getting used to before you can make a
                                sound judgment. In reality , it will take 500-600 miles to become
                                fully acclimated, so keep an open mind on your test rides and know
                                that the initial strangeness becomes "as natural as riding a bike"
                                with time.

                                I started with my seat fairly upright and then lowered it a notch
                                every couple weeks, allowing my mind time to adjust.

                                Sergio said: "Bacchetta high racers will ride faster than what you got
                                once you get use to it and be more confortable."

                                - Yup, he's right about that.

                                Another thing that has not been mentioned yet... Riding in the
                                efficiently reclined highracer position makes it difficult to look
                                behind you. A mirror (or two) is a requirement. Joe does well with the
                                "Take-A-Look" helmet mounted small mirror. I like the handlebar
                                mounted type. When making a potentially life threatening move in
                                traffic I still rely on a direct (not reflected) view. To look behind
                                requires that I lean forward a bit (again off the seat back) to be
                                able to swivel my head far enough to see directly behind me. This is
                                easier to do on one of the more upright (and therefore less efficient)
                                bikes such as the CLWB (4 letter word, Hose ;-) ).

                                Early in my highracer experience I had difficulties with numb toes
                                after a few miles. I attribute it to the higher bottom bracket. Much
                                excellent advice was offered on this forum on how to cope with it. I
                                think that time has been the best cure as it doesn't happen nearly as
                                often or as quickly as before. I may have grown more capillaries in my
                                feet to compensate.

                                All in all, any recumbent bike model will be far more comfortable. The
                                highracer just allows you to comfortable at a higher speed.

                                Ted

                                --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, "seragram"
                                <seragram@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, BentWheeler@
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                                > > Sergio
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT close to that
                                > two letter word :-)
                                >
                                > I know that Hose. But this is about what "mcgavind" said he wanted in
                                > his original post. We can start another thread about what Hose likes to
                                > ride.
                                > Sergio (I think that was a shot LOL)
                                >
                              • ET Williams
                                Pictures of the Bionic  wedgie were posted last year, it s the red bike behind my custom recumbent.  The $400 NiMH 20 cell battery pack is concealed
                                Message 15 of 28 , Dec 2, 2008
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                                  Pictures of the Bionic  wedgie were posted last year, it's the red bike behind my custom recumbent.  The $400 NiMH 20 cell battery pack is concealed inside of the thin extruded aluminum frame, with a small servo motor in the rear hub and a tork sensor crank, (pedal assist).  You have to pedal to make it go, it caps out just over 20 mph but it's the acceleration that's impressive.  The bike is very fast in tight turns, short sprints, up hill and against the wind.  I have gone over 30 miles on a single charge, the energy cell can be charged up to 2000 times before replacement.  It's not a recumbent replacement but a darn good stable mate and a fun bike. 
                                   
                                  I got it from Super Kids, the Million $$ Man only sells Old School. This is High Tech and is considered Greener than a regular bicycle, so green that my accountant got me a tax credit the year I got it.
                                   
                                                                                         Ride-On ..........ET
                                   

                                  --- On Tue, 12/2/08, BentWheeler@... <BentWheeler@...> wrote:
                                  From: BentWheeler@... <BentWheeler@...>
                                  Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.
                                  To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 5:24 AM


                                  also ride a bionic diamond frame
                                  Hey ET,

                                  Please post pics and details about your BIONIC DF. Did the Million Dollar Man sell it to you?

                                  Jose A. Hernandez
                                  Bent Cycling Means NEVER Having to say you're sore!
                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                  A NEW, IMPROVED Cycling Solutions Coming SOON to a web browser near you!
                                  http://www.CyclingS olutions. com
                                  http://www.getbent. org


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: ET Williams <etwwinc@yahoo. com>
                                  To: SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:15 pm
                                  Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.

                                  Greetings, you have been given excellent advise by all involved. The best thing to do is to get involved and Okeehelee park is a  good place to start. We are small group that rides most Saturday mornings, rides are based on smiles and camaraderie rather than speed and distance.
                                    You will fit in well with your diamond frame as I also ride a bionic diamond frame when not riding my custom recumbent and my custom recumbent is smaller & faster than my diamond frame.
                                    Choosing the right recumbent is a difficult task, I have made the wrong choice twice with bikes that were no fun, and sold them at a substantial loss.       ............ ......ET
                                   
                                              
                                    

                                  --- On Mon, 12/1/08, mcgavind <mcgavind@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                  From: mcgavind <mcgavind@yahoo. com>
                                  Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.
                                  To: SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 9:28 PM

                                  Thank you, all of you! Keep it coming! I am a newbie and want to get
                                  the "right" bike this time around. I appreciate the advice I have
                                  received so far. When are the rides and from where? How do I find out?
                                  I have ridden a couple of Atlantic bents around the parking lot (don't
                                  remember the names, Josh), but I'd love to ride my Lemond with you guys
                                  to see what it is like "close-up-and- personal" and for a longer time
                                  frame. Let me know where and when. How many are you , anyway? I'll be
                                  at Art Basel this Saturday, but after that (assuming I can correct final
                                  exams in a hurry), I'll be available until the 20th and then after that
                                  the 1st and from then on til May, when I go to Michigan for the summer.
                                  Looking forward to it! Oh, BTW, the closet can hold only the size of a
                                  regular bike; I have been out of the closet so long I can hardly
                                  remember the dimensions!!

                                  --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "seragram"
                                  <seragram@.. .> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "Ted" teabone@
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I guess I'll add my own $0.02 to the great advice offered so far...
                                  > >
                                  > > Sorry to muddy the water but my experience with highracers differs
                                  > > from Jose's. I value and respect Jose's most learned opinion (though
                                  > > this time I think he's wrong).
                                  > >
                                  > >I agree with you on this one.
                                  > he failed to notice the man is 6' tall
                                  > has commuted on a DF the past 10 years
                                  > and would like to in his own words "preserve the road bike feel that I
                                  > love"
                                  > (efficient speed) and still have an inexpensive bent that will
                                  commute?
                                  >
                                  > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                                  > Sergio
                                  >



                                • BentWheeler@AOL.com
                                  While I humbly defer to your keen intellect, vastly superior knowledge, and many many many many years of recumbent experience LOL. Well, as long as this is
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Dec 2, 2008
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                                    While I humbly defer to your keen intellect, vastly superior
                                    knowledge, and many many many many years of recumbent experience
                                    LOL. Well, as long as this is done humbly..... I accept your recognition of my divine bent status. I too am a humble BentRider but I just don't understand why they don't erect a statue that honors my humility. :-D

                                    Here's a new recommendation for new bent riders. You should really consider getting at least four bikes. One high racer for the open road, one low racer for the track, one compact long wheel base for commuting, one short wheel base for the heck of it and one trike for the fun of it. Ok.... my math is bad but who cares.....

                                    Jose who really hopes new members take all of my/our BS (spelled with upper case B and upper case S) seriously just because it is more fun that way Hernandez

                                    Jose A. Hernandez
                                    Bent Cycling Means NEVER Having to say you're sore!
                                    ___________________________________________________________
                                    A NEW, IMPROVED Cycling Solutions Coming SOON to a web browser near you!
                                    http://www.CyclingSolutions.com
                                    http://www.getbent.org


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Ted <teabone@...>
                                    To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 3:08 pm
                                    Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.


                                    Hose,

                                    While I humbly defer to your keen intellect, vastly superior
                                    knowledge, and many many many many years of recumbent experience, I
                                    still think that McGavinD might soon be disappointed with anything
                                    slower than a highracer. However, your criticisms are valid. I just
                                    think that the benefits outweigh the liabilities.

                                    Recap follows for McGavinD:

                                    Hose said: "I didn't think it handled well on trails where you have
                                    lots of tight turns and you may need to bike at a very low speed."

                                    - This is true to a degree, especially if you ride it in it's most
                                    efficient, very reclined position. In this laid back position you lose
                                    the view of the ground directly ahead of your front wheel and you are
                                    not able to employ body english for tricky maneuvers. I've cultivated
                                    a kind of "look ahead" peripheral-type vision that allows me to
                                    anticipate, mostly obviating the need to see the front wheel on the
                                    pavement.

                                    In cases where I need to "thread a needle", I unclip at least one foot
                                    (sometimes both) and lean forward off the seat back. With the short
                                    wheelbase of the highracer (pretty close to that of a DF), in this
                                    position I find that I have very near the handling of a DF (pls pardon
                                    the profanity) including body english. It doesn't happen all that
                                    often, but has become second nature to me when needed.

                                    Joe said: "I'm gonna step in from afar (China) and suggest ye join one
                                    of Jose's or Josh's or the Okee rides so you can see the different
                                    bents up close and personal.... I'm will'n to bet someone will actually
                                    let you test ride one in a big ol empty parking lot."

                                    - I heartily second this. Actually, ride multiple times before
                                    deciding, if you can. Since the balance and the muscle groups used are
                                    different, it take a bit of getting used to before you can make a
                                    sound judgment. In reality , it will take 500-600 miles to become
                                    fully acclimated, so keep an open mind on your test rides and know
                                    that the initial strangeness becomes "as natural as riding a bike"
                                    with time.

                                    I started with my seat fairly upright and then lowered it a notch
                                    every couple weeks, allowing my mind time to adjust.

                                    Sergio said: "Bacchetta high racers will ride faster than what you got
                                    once you get use to it and be more confortable. "

                                    - Yup, he's right about that.

                                    Another thing that has not been mentioned yet... Riding in the
                                    efficiently reclined highracer position makes it difficult to look
                                    behind you. A mirror (or two) is a requirement. Joe does well with the
                                    "Take-A-Look" helmet mounted small mirror. I like the handlebar
                                    mounted type. When making a potentially life threatening move in
                                    traffic I still rely on a direct (not reflected) view. To look behind
                                    requires that I lean forward a bit (again off the seat back) to be
                                    able to swivel my head far enough to see directly behind me. This is
                                    easier to do on one of the more upright (and therefore less efficient)
                                    bikes such as the CLWB (4 letter word, Hose ;-) ).

                                    Early in my highracer experience I had difficulties with numb toes
                                    after a few miles. I attribute it to the higher bottom bracket. Much
                                    excellent advice was offered on this forum on how to cope with it. I
                                    think that time has been the best cure as it doesn't happen nearly as
                                    often or as quickly as before. I may have grown more capillaries in my
                                    feet to compensate.

                                    All in all, any recumbent bike model will be far more comfortable. The
                                    highracer just allows you to comfortable at a higher speed.

                                    Ted

                                    --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "seragram"
                                    <seragram@.. .> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, BentWheeler@
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                                    > > Sergio
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT close to that
                                    > two letter word :-)
                                    >
                                    > I know that Hose. But this is about what "mcgavind" said he wanted in
                                    > his original post. We can start another thread about what Hose likes to
                                    > ride.
                                    > Sergio (I think that was a shot LOL)
                                    >

                                  • BentWheeler@AOL.com
                                    I m glad you found us and I hope you stick with us even if it takes 1000 posts to get one bit of good information!!! Welcome to our dysfunctional family!!!
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Dec 2, 2008
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                                      I'm glad you found us and I hope you stick with us even if it takes 1000 posts to get one bit of good information!!!

                                      Welcome to our dysfunctional family!!!
                                      Jose, I enjoyed your blog.
                                       
                                      Dan McGavin



                                      Jose A. Hernandez
                                      Bent Cycling Means NEVER Having to say you're sore!
                                      ___________________________________________________________
                                      A NEW, IMPROVED Cycling Solutions Coming SOON to a web browser near you!
                                      http://www.CyclingSolutions.com
                                      http://www.getbent.org


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Daniel McGavin <mcgavind@...>
                                      To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 1:30 pm
                                      Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.

                                      Jose, I enjoyed your blog.
                                       
                                      Dan McGavin



                                      From: "BentWheeler@ AOL.com" <BentWheeler@ AOL.com>
                                      To: SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Monday, December 1, 2008 10:17:03 PM
                                      Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.


                                      In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                                      Sergio

                                      And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT close to that two letter word :-)

                                      Jose A. Hernandez
                                      Bent Cycling Means NEVER Having to say you're sore!
                                      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                      A NEW, IMPROVED Cycling Solutions Coming SOON to a web browser near you!
                                      http://www.CyclingS olutions. com
                                      http://www.getbent. org


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: seragram <seragram@yahoo. com>
                                      To: SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 7:02 pm
                                      Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.

                                      --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "Ted" <teabone@... >
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I guess I'll add my own $0.02 to the great advice offered so far...
                                      >
                                      > Sorry to muddy the water but my experience with highracers differs
                                      > from Jose's. I value and respect Jose's most learned opinion (though
                                      > this time I think he's wrong).
                                      >
                                      >I agree with you on this one.
                                      he failed to notice the man is 6' tall
                                      has commuted on a DF the past 10 years
                                      and would like to in his own words "preserve the road bike feel that I
                                      love"
                                      (efficient speed) and still have an inexpensive bent that will commute?

                                      In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                                      Sergio


                                    • Joshua Beatty
                                      My advice is to take Jose s advice, and please come buy them from Atlantic Bicycle.... Josh ... recognition of my divine bent status. I too am a humble
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Dec 2, 2008
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                                        My advice is to take Jose's advice, and please come buy them from
                                        Atlantic Bicycle....
                                        Josh
                                        >
                                        > While I humbly defer to your keen intellect, vastly superior
                                        > knowledge, and many many many many years of recumbent experience
                                        > LOL. Well, as long as this is done humbly..... I accept your
                                        recognition of my divine bent status. I too am a humble BentRider but
                                        I?just don't understand why they don't erect a statue that honors my
                                        humility.
                                        >
                                        > Here's a new recommendation for new bent riders. You should really
                                        consider getting at least four bikes. One high racer for the open
                                        road, one low racer for the track, one compact long wheel base for
                                        commuting, one short wheel base for the heck of it and one trike for
                                        the fun of it. Ok.... my math is bad but who cares.....
                                        >
                                        > Jose who really hopes new members?take all of?my/our BS (spelled
                                        with upper case B and upper case S) seriously just because it is more
                                        fun that way Hernandez
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Jose A. Hernandez
                                        > Bent Cycling Means NEVER Having to say you're sore!
                                        > ___________________________________________________________
                                        > A NEW, IMPROVED Cycling Solutions Coming SOON to a web browser near
                                        you!
                                        > http://www.CyclingSolutions.com
                                        > http://www.getbent.org
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: Ted <teabone@...>
                                        > To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 3:08 pm
                                        > Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Hose,
                                        >
                                        > While I humbly defer to your keen intellect, vastly superior
                                        > knowledge, and many many many many years of recumbent experience, I
                                        > still think that McGavinD might soon be disappointed with anything
                                        > slower than a highracer. However, your criticisms are valid. I just
                                        > think that the benefits outweigh the liabilities.
                                        >
                                        > Recap follows for McGavinD:
                                        >
                                        > Hose said: "I didn't think it handled well on trails where you have
                                        > lots of tight turns and you may need to bike at a very low speed."
                                        >
                                        > - This is true to a degree, especially if you ride it in it's most
                                        > efficient, very reclined position. In this laid back position you
                                        lose
                                        > the view of the ground directly ahead of your front wheel and you
                                        are
                                        > not able to employ body english for tricky maneuvers. I've
                                        cultivated
                                        > a kind of "look ahead" peripheral-type vision that allows me to
                                        > anticipate, mostly obviating the need to see the front wheel on the
                                        > pavement.
                                        >
                                        > In cases where I need to "thread a needle", I unclip at least one
                                        foot
                                        > (sometimes both) and lean forward off the seat back. With the short
                                        > wheelbase of the highracer (pretty close to that of a DF), in this
                                        > position I find that I have very near the handling of a DF (pls
                                        pardon
                                        > the profanity) including body english. It doesn't happen all that
                                        > often, but has become second nature to me when needed.
                                        >
                                        > Joe said: "I'm gonna step in from afar (China) and suggest ye join
                                        one
                                        > of Jose's or Josh's or the Okee rides so you can see the different
                                        > bents up close and personal....I'm will'n to bet someone will
                                        actually
                                        > let you test ride one in a big ol empty parking lot."
                                        >
                                        > - I heartily second this. Actually, ride multiple times before
                                        > deciding, if you can. Since the balance and the muscle groups used
                                        are
                                        > different, it take a bit of getting used to before you can make a
                                        > sound judgment. In reality , it will take 500-600 miles to become
                                        > fully acclimated, so keep an open mind on your test rides and know
                                        > that the initial strangeness becomes "as natural as riding a bike"
                                        > with time.
                                        >
                                        > I started with my seat fairly upright and then lowered it a notch
                                        > every couple weeks, allowing my mind time to adjust.
                                        >
                                        > Sergio said: "Bacchetta high racers will ride faster than what you
                                        got
                                        > once you get use to it and be more confortable."
                                        >
                                        > - Yup, he's right about that.
                                        >
                                        > Another thing that has not been mentioned yet... Riding in the
                                        > efficiently reclined highracer position makes it difficult to look
                                        > behind you. A mirror (or two) is a requirement. Joe does well with
                                        the
                                        > "Take-A-Look" helmet mounted small mirror. I like the handlebar
                                        > mounted type. When making a potentially life threatening move in
                                        > traffic I still rely on a direct (not reflected) view. To look
                                        behind
                                        > requires that I lean forward a bit (again off the seat back) to be
                                        > able to swivel my head far enough to see directly behind me. This is
                                        > easier to do on one of the more upright (and therefore less
                                        efficient)
                                        > bikes such as the CLWB (4 letter word, Hose ;-) ).
                                        >
                                        > Early in my highracer experience I had difficulties with numb toes
                                        > after a few miles. I attribute it to the higher bottom bracket. Much
                                        > excellent advice was offered on this forum on how to cope with it. I
                                        > think that time has been the best cure as it doesn't happen nearly
                                        as
                                        > often or as quickly as before. I may have grown more capillaries in
                                        my
                                        > feet to compensate.
                                        >
                                        > All in all, any recumbent bike model will be far more comfortable.
                                        The
                                        > highracer just allows you to comfortable at a higher speed.
                                        >
                                        > Ted
                                        >
                                        > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, "seragram"
                                        > <seragram@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, BentWheeler@
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a
                                        highracer.
                                        > > > Sergio
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT close to
                                        that
                                        > > two letter word :-)
                                        > >
                                        > > I know that Hose. But this is about what "mcgavind" said he
                                        wanted in
                                        > > his original post. We can start another thread about what Hose
                                        likes to
                                        > > ride.
                                        > > Sergio (I think that was a shot LOL)
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • Daniel McGavin
                                        Thanks, Ted. Sound advice from an experienced rider. Just what I need. Thanks to the others as well. I appreciate an active group!! Josh, I ll be around as
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Dec 3, 2008
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                                          Thanks, Ted.  Sound advice from an experienced rider.  Just what I need.  Thanks to the others as well. I appreciate an active group!!

                                          Josh, I'll be around as soon as possible.

                                          As soon as I can, for sure at the first of the year, I'll be joining some rides. 

                                          Are there any rides/riders in the Delray Beach area?
                                           
                                          Dan McGavin



                                          From: Ted <teabone@...>
                                          To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 3:08:57 PM
                                          Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.


                                          Hose,

                                          While I humbly defer to your keen intellect, vastly superior
                                          knowledge, and many many many many years of recumbent experience, I
                                          still think that McGavinD might soon be disappointed with anything
                                          slower than a highracer. However, your criticisms are valid. I just
                                          think that the benefits outweigh the liabilities.

                                          Recap follows for McGavinD:

                                          Hose said: "I didn't think it handled well on trails where you have
                                          lots of tight turns and you may need to bike at a very low speed."

                                          - This is true to a degree, especially if you ride it in it's most
                                          efficient, very reclined position. In this laid back position you lose
                                          the view of the ground directly ahead of your front wheel and you are
                                          not able to employ body english for tricky maneuvers. I've cultivated
                                          a kind of "look ahead" peripheral-type vision that allows me to
                                          anticipate, mostly obviating the need to see the front wheel on the
                                          pavement.

                                          In cases where I need to "thread a needle", I unclip at least one foot
                                          (sometimes both) and lean forward off the seat back. With the short
                                          wheelbase of the highracer (pretty close to that of a DF), in this
                                          position I find that I have very near the handling of a DF (pls pardon
                                          the profanity) including body english. It doesn't happen all that
                                          often, but has become second nature to me when needed.

                                          Joe said: "I'm gonna step in from afar (China) and suggest ye join one
                                          of Jose's or Josh's or the Okee rides so you can see the different
                                          bents up close and personal.... I'm will'n to bet someone will actually
                                          let you test ride one in a big ol empty parking lot."

                                          - I heartily second this. Actually, ride multiple times before
                                          deciding, if you can. Since the balance and the muscle groups used are
                                          different, it take a bit of getting used to before you can make a
                                          sound judgment. In reality , it will take 500-600 miles to become
                                          fully acclimated, so keep an open mind on your test rides and know
                                          that the initial strangeness becomes "as natural as riding a bike"
                                          with time.

                                          I started with my seat fairly upright and then lowered it a notch
                                          every couple weeks, allowing my mind time to adjust.

                                          Sergio said: "Bacchetta high racers will ride faster than what you got
                                          once you get use to it and be more confortable. "

                                          - Yup, he's right about that.

                                          Another thing that has not been mentioned yet... Riding in the
                                          efficiently reclined highracer position makes it difficult to look
                                          behind you. A mirror (or two) is a requirement. Joe does well with the
                                          "Take-A-Look" helmet mounted small mirror. I like the handlebar
                                          mounted type. When making a potentially life threatening move in
                                          traffic I still rely on a direct (not reflected) view. To look behind
                                          requires that I lean forward a bit (again off the seat back) to be
                                          able to swivel my head far enough to see directly behind me. This is
                                          easier to do on one of the more upright (and therefore less efficient)
                                          bikes such as the CLWB (4 letter word, Hose ;-) ).

                                          Early in my highracer experience I had difficulties with numb toes
                                          after a few miles. I attribute it to the higher bottom bracket. Much
                                          excellent advice was offered on this forum on how to cope with it. I
                                          think that time has been the best cure as it doesn't happen nearly as
                                          often or as quickly as before. I may have grown more capillaries in my
                                          feet to compensate.

                                          All in all, any recumbent bike model will be far more comfortable. The
                                          highracer just allows you to comfortable at a higher speed.

                                          Ted

                                          --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "seragram"
                                          <seragram@.. .> wrote:

                                          >
                                          > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, BentWheeler@
                                          > wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                                          > > Sergio
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT close to that
                                          > two letter word :-)
                                          >
                                          > I know that Hose. But this is about what "mcgavind" said he wanted in
                                          > his original post. We can start another thread about what Hose likes to
                                          > ride.
                                          > Sergio (I think that was a shot LOL)
                                          >


                                        • Ted
                                          Dan, Carl (Bacchetta Corsa) and I are just a few miles north of Delray in west Boynton. We are going to ride from there to Palm Bch inlet and back this
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Dec 3, 2008
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                                            Dan,

                                            Carl (Bacchetta Corsa) and I are just a few miles north of Delray in
                                            west Boynton. We are going to ride from there to Palm Bch inlet and
                                            back this Saturday, leaving at 7 AM. You're welcome to join us. We'll
                                            probably meet up with a couple more riders along the way (Phil -
                                            Strada), Wayne (HP Velotechnik streetmachine), and Yoric (Aero).

                                            Of course the rest of you are welcome to join us too. Lake Worth Bch
                                            is where most of us meet (about 7:45 AM), varying speeds of 16 mph up
                                            to ??? with regroup points. We plan to hit Starbucks (in WP Bch) on
                                            the way back.

                                            Ted

                                            --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, Daniel McGavin
                                            <mcgavind@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Thanks, Ted. Sound advice from an experienced rider. Just what I
                                            need. Thanks to the others as well. I appreciate an active group!!
                                            >
                                            > Josh, I'll be around as soon as possible.
                                            >
                                            > As soon as I can, for sure at the first of the year, I'll be joining
                                            some rides.
                                            >
                                            > Are there any rides/riders in the Delray Beach area?
                                            >
                                            > Dan McGavin
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ________________________________
                                            > From: Ted <teabone@...>
                                            > To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 3:08:57 PM
                                            > Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Hose,
                                            >
                                            > While I humbly defer to your keen intellect, vastly superior
                                            > knowledge, and many many many many years of recumbent experience, I
                                            > still think that McGavinD might soon be disappointed with anything
                                            > slower than a highracer. However, your criticisms are valid. I just
                                            > think that the benefits outweigh the liabilities.
                                            >
                                            > Recap follows for McGavinD:
                                            >
                                            > Hose said: "I didn't think it handled well on trails where you have
                                            > lots of tight turns and you may need to bike at a very low speed."
                                            >
                                            > - This is true to a degree, especially if you ride it in it's most
                                            > efficient, very reclined position. In this laid back position you lose
                                            > the view of the ground directly ahead of your front wheel and you are
                                            > not able to employ body english for tricky maneuvers. I've cultivated
                                            > a kind of "look ahead" peripheral-type vision that allows me to
                                            > anticipate, mostly obviating the need to see the front wheel on the
                                            > pavement.
                                            >
                                            > In cases where I need to "thread a needle", I unclip at least one foot
                                            > (sometimes both) and lean forward off the seat back. With the short
                                            > wheelbase of the highracer (pretty close to that of a DF), in this
                                            > position I find that I have very near the handling of a DF (pls pardon
                                            > the profanity) including body english. It doesn't happen all that
                                            > often, but has become second nature to me when needed.
                                            >
                                            > Joe said: "I'm gonna step in from afar (China) and suggest ye join one
                                            > of Jose's or Josh's or the Okee rides so you can see the different
                                            > bents up close and personal.... I'm will'n to bet someone will actually
                                            > let you test ride one in a big ol empty parking lot."
                                            >
                                            > - I heartily second this. Actually, ride multiple times before
                                            > deciding, if you can. Since the balance and the muscle groups used are
                                            > different, it take a bit of getting used to before you can make a
                                            > sound judgment. In reality , it will take 500-600 miles to become
                                            > fully acclimated, so keep an open mind on your test rides and know
                                            > that the initial strangeness becomes "as natural as riding a bike"
                                            > with time.
                                            >
                                            > I started with my seat fairly upright and then lowered it a notch
                                            > every couple weeks, allowing my mind time to adjust.
                                            >
                                            > Sergio said: "Bacchetta high racers will ride faster than what you got
                                            > once you get use to it and be more confortable. "
                                            >
                                            > - Yup, he's right about that.
                                            >
                                            > Another thing that has not been mentioned yet... Riding in the
                                            > efficiently reclined highracer position makes it difficult to look
                                            > behind you. A mirror (or two) is a requirement. Joe does well with the
                                            > "Take-A-Look" helmet mounted small mirror. I like the handlebar
                                            > mounted type. When making a potentially life threatening move in
                                            > traffic I still rely on a direct (not reflected) view. To look behind
                                            > requires that I lean forward a bit (again off the seat back) to be
                                            > able to swivel my head far enough to see directly behind me. This is
                                            > easier to do on one of the more upright (and therefore less efficient)
                                            > bikes such as the CLWB (4 letter word, Hose ;-) ).
                                            >
                                            > Early in my highracer experience I had difficulties with numb toes
                                            > after a few miles. I attribute it to the higher bottom bracket. Much
                                            > excellent advice was offered on this forum on how to cope with it. I
                                            > think that time has been the best cure as it doesn't happen nearly as
                                            > often or as quickly as before. I may have grown more capillaries in my
                                            > feet to compensate.
                                            >
                                            > All in all, any recumbent bike model will be far more comfortable. The
                                            > highracer just allows you to comfortable at a higher speed.
                                            >
                                            > Ted
                                            >
                                            > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "seragram"
                                            > <seragram@ .> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, BentWheeler@
                                            > > wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                                            > > > Sergio
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT close to
                                            that
                                            > > two letter word :-)
                                            > >
                                            > > I know that Hose. But this is about what "mcgavind" said he wanted in
                                            > > his original post. We can start another thread about what Hose
                                            likes to
                                            > > ride.
                                            > > Sergio (I think that was a shot LOL)
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • Daniel McGavin
                                            Wow, Ted, that sounds great. Unfortunately, I have plans for this Saturday (art bazel), but I would absolutely love to get together the next Saturday! Way
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Dec 3, 2008
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                                              Wow, Ted, that sounds great.  Unfortunately, I have plans for this Saturday (art bazel), but I would absolutely love to get together the next Saturday! Way cool.
                                               
                                              Dan McGavin



                                              From: Ted <teabone@...>
                                              To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 1:35:10 PM
                                              Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.

                                              Dan,

                                              Carl (Bacchetta Corsa) and I are just a few miles north of Delray in
                                              west Boynton. We are going to ride from there to Palm Bch inlet and
                                              back this Saturday, leaving at 7 AM. You're welcome to join us. We'll
                                              probably meet up with a couple more riders along the way (Phil -
                                              Strada), Wayne (HP Velotechnik streetmachine) , and Yoric (Aero).

                                              Of course the rest of you are welcome to join us too. Lake Worth Bch
                                              is where most of us meet (about 7:45 AM), varying speeds of 16 mph up
                                              to ??? with regroup points. We plan to hit Starbucks (in WP Bch) on
                                              the way back.

                                              Ted

                                              --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, Daniel McGavin
                                              <mcgavind@.. .> wrote:

                                              >
                                              > Thanks, Ted. Sound advice from an experienced rider. Just what I
                                              need. Thanks to the others as well. I appreciate an active group!!
                                              >
                                              > Josh, I'll be around as soon as possible.
                                              >
                                              > As soon as I can, for sure at the first of the year, I'll be joining
                                              some rides.
                                              >
                                              > Are there any rides/riders in the Delray Beach area?
                                              >
                                              > Dan McGavin
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                              > From: Ted <teabone@... >
                                              > To: SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com
                                              > Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 3:08:57 PM
                                              > Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Hose,
                                              >
                                              > While I humbly defer to your keen intellect, vastly superior
                                              > knowledge, and many many many many years of recumbent experience, I
                                              > still think that McGavinD might soon be disappointed with anything
                                              > slower than a highracer. However, your criticisms are valid. I just
                                              > think that the benefits outweigh the liabilities.
                                              >
                                              > Recap follows for McGavinD:
                                              >
                                              > Hose said: "I didn't think it handled well on trails where you have
                                              > lots of tight turns and you may need to bike at a very low speed."
                                              >
                                              > - This is true to a degree, especially if you ride it in it's most
                                              > efficient, very reclined position. In this laid back position you lose
                                              > the view of the ground directly ahead of your front wheel and you are
                                              > not able to employ body english for tricky maneuvers. I've cultivated
                                              > a kind of "look ahead" peripheral-type vision that allows me to
                                              > anticipate, mostly obviating the need to see the front wheel on the
                                              > pavement.
                                              >
                                              > In cases where I need to "thread a needle", I unclip at least one foot
                                              > (sometimes both) and lean forward off the seat back. With the short
                                              > wheelbase of the highracer (pretty close to that of a DF), in this
                                              > position I find that I have very near the handling of a DF (pls pardon
                                              > the profanity) including body english. It doesn't happen all that
                                              > often, but has become second nature to me when needed.
                                              >
                                              > Joe said: "I'm gonna step in from afar (China) and suggest ye join one
                                              > of Jose's or Josh's or the Okee rides so you can see the different
                                              > bents up close and personal.... I'm will'n to bet someone will actually
                                              > let you test ride one in a big ol empty parking lot."
                                              >
                                              > - I heartily second this. Actually, ride multiple times before
                                              > deciding, if you can. Since the balance and the muscle groups used are
                                              > different, it take a bit of getting used to before you can make a
                                              > sound judgment. In reality , it will take 500-600 miles to become
                                              > fully acclimated, so keep an open mind on your test rides and know
                                              > that the initial strangeness becomes "as natural as riding a bike"
                                              > with time.
                                              >
                                              > I started with my seat fairly upright and then lowered it a notch
                                              > every couple weeks, allowing my mind time to adjust.
                                              >
                                              > Sergio said: "Bacchetta high racers will ride faster than what you got
                                              > once you get use to it and be more confortable. "
                                              >
                                              > - Yup, he's right about that.
                                              >
                                              > Another thing that has not been mentioned yet... Riding in the
                                              > efficiently reclined highracer position makes it difficult to look
                                              > behind you. A mirror (or two) is a requirement. Joe does well with the
                                              > "Take-A-Look" helmet mounted small mirror. I like the handlebar
                                              > mounted type. When making a potentially life threatening move in
                                              > traffic I still rely on a direct (not reflected) view. To look behind
                                              > requires that I lean forward a bit (again off the seat back) to be
                                              > able to swivel my head far enough to see directly behind me. This is
                                              > easier to do on one of the more upright (and therefore less efficient)
                                              > bikes such as the CLWB (4 letter word, Hose ;-) ).
                                              >
                                              > Early in my highracer experience I had difficulties with numb toes
                                              > after a few miles. I attribute it to the higher bottom bracket. Much
                                              > excellent advice was offered on this forum on how to cope with it. I
                                              > think that time has been the best cure as it doesn't happen nearly as
                                              > often or as quickly as before. I may have grown more capillaries in my
                                              > feet to compensate.
                                              >
                                              > All in all, any recumbent bike model will be far more comfortable. The
                                              > highracer just allows you to comfortable at a higher speed.
                                              >
                                              > Ted
                                              >
                                              > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "seragram"
                                              > <seragram@ .> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, BentWheeler@
                                              > > wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a highracer.
                                              > > > Sergio
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT close to
                                              that
                                              > > two letter word :-)
                                              > >
                                              > > I know that Hose. But this is about what "mcgavind" said he wanted in
                                              > > his original post. We can start another thread about what Hose
                                              likes to
                                              > > ride.
                                              > > Sergio (I think that was a shot LOL)
                                              > >
                                              >


                                            • Bill Barrere
                                              Hi Ted, I will be in WPB this weekend. I would like to ride down and meet up with Phil in LW and join you all. If you speak with Phil, will you let me know
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Dec 4, 2008
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                                                Hi Ted,

                                                I will be in WPB this weekend. I would like to ride down and meet
                                                up with Phil in LW and join you all. If you speak with Phil, will
                                                you let me know what time will he be on A1A in LW? He can call me
                                                at 786 597 2091.

                                                Later,
                                                Bill


                                                --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, "Ted"
                                                <teabone@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Dan,
                                                >
                                                > Carl (Bacchetta Corsa) and I are just a few miles north of Delray in
                                                > west Boynton. We are going to ride from there to Palm Bch inlet and
                                                > back this Saturday, leaving at 7 AM. You're welcome to join us.
                                                We'll
                                                > probably meet up with a couple more riders along the way (Phil -
                                                > Strada), Wayne (HP Velotechnik streetmachine), and Yoric (Aero).
                                                >
                                                > Of course the rest of you are welcome to join us too. Lake Worth Bch
                                                > is where most of us meet (about 7:45 AM), varying speeds of 16 mph
                                                up
                                                > to ??? with regroup points. We plan to hit Starbucks (in WP Bch) on
                                                > the way back.
                                                >
                                                > Ted
                                                >
                                                > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, Daniel McGavin
                                                > <mcgavind@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Thanks, Ted. Sound advice from an experienced rider. Just what I
                                                > need. Thanks to the others as well. I appreciate an active group!!
                                                > >
                                                > > Josh, I'll be around as soon as possible.
                                                > >
                                                > > As soon as I can, for sure at the first of the year, I'll be
                                                joining
                                                > some rides.
                                                > >
                                                > > Are there any rides/riders in the Delray Beach area?
                                                > >
                                                > > Dan McGavin
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > ________________________________
                                                > > From: Ted <teabone@>
                                                > > To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 3:08:57 PM
                                                > > Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Hose,
                                                > >
                                                > > While I humbly defer to your keen intellect, vastly superior
                                                > > knowledge, and many many many many years of recumbent experience,
                                                I
                                                > > still think that McGavinD might soon be disappointed with anything
                                                > > slower than a highracer. However, your criticisms are valid. I
                                                just
                                                > > think that the benefits outweigh the liabilities.
                                                > >
                                                > > Recap follows for McGavinD:
                                                > >
                                                > > Hose said: "I didn't think it handled well on trails where you
                                                have
                                                > > lots of tight turns and you may need to bike at a very low speed."
                                                > >
                                                > > - This is true to a degree, especially if you ride it in it's
                                                most
                                                > > efficient, very reclined position. In this laid back position you
                                                lose
                                                > > the view of the ground directly ahead of your front wheel and you
                                                are
                                                > > not able to employ body english for tricky maneuvers. I've
                                                cultivated
                                                > > a kind of "look ahead" peripheral-type vision that allows me to
                                                > > anticipate, mostly obviating the need to see the front wheel on
                                                the
                                                > > pavement.
                                                > >
                                                > > In cases where I need to "thread a needle", I unclip at least one
                                                foot
                                                > > (sometimes both) and lean forward off the seat back. With the
                                                short
                                                > > wheelbase of the highracer (pretty close to that of a DF), in this
                                                > > position I find that I have very near the handling of a DF (pls
                                                pardon
                                                > > the profanity) including body english. It doesn't happen all that
                                                > > often, but has become second nature to me when needed.
                                                > >
                                                > > Joe said: "I'm gonna step in from afar (China) and suggest ye join
                                                one
                                                > > of Jose's or Josh's or the Okee rides so you can see the different
                                                > > bents up close and personal.... I'm will'n to bet someone will
                                                actually
                                                > > let you test ride one in a big ol empty parking lot."
                                                > >
                                                > > - I heartily second this. Actually, ride multiple times before
                                                > > deciding, if you can. Since the balance and the muscle groups used
                                                are
                                                > > different, it take a bit of getting used to before you can make a
                                                > > sound judgment. In reality , it will take 500-600 miles to become
                                                > > fully acclimated, so keep an open mind on your test rides and know
                                                > > that the initial strangeness becomes "as natural as riding a bike"
                                                > > with time.
                                                > >
                                                > > I started with my seat fairly upright and then lowered it a notch
                                                > > every couple weeks, allowing my mind time to adjust.
                                                > >
                                                > > Sergio said: "Bacchetta high racers will ride faster than what you
                                                got
                                                > > once you get use to it and be more confortable. "
                                                > >
                                                > > - Yup, he's right about that.
                                                > >
                                                > > Another thing that has not been mentioned yet... Riding in the
                                                > > efficiently reclined highracer position makes it difficult to look
                                                > > behind you. A mirror (or two) is a requirement. Joe does well with
                                                the
                                                > > "Take-A-Look" helmet mounted small mirror. I like the handlebar
                                                > > mounted type. When making a potentially life threatening move in
                                                > > traffic I still rely on a direct (not reflected) view. To look
                                                behind
                                                > > requires that I lean forward a bit (again off the seat back) to be
                                                > > able to swivel my head far enough to see directly behind me. This
                                                is
                                                > > easier to do on one of the more upright (and therefore less
                                                efficient)
                                                > > bikes such as the CLWB (4 letter word, Hose ;-) ).
                                                > >
                                                > > Early in my highracer experience I had difficulties with numb toes
                                                > > after a few miles. I attribute it to the higher bottom bracket.
                                                Much
                                                > > excellent advice was offered on this forum on how to cope with it.
                                                I
                                                > > think that time has been the best cure as it doesn't happen nearly
                                                as
                                                > > often or as quickly as before. I may have grown more capillaries
                                                in my
                                                > > feet to compensate.
                                                > >
                                                > > All in all, any recumbent bike model will be far more comfortable.
                                                The
                                                > > highracer just allows you to comfortable at a higher speed.
                                                > >
                                                > > Ted
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "seragram"
                                                > > <seragram@ .> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com,
                                                BentWheeler@
                                                > > > wrote:
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a
                                                highracer.
                                                > > > > Sergio
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT close
                                                to
                                                > that
                                                > > > two letter word :-)
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I know that Hose. But this is about what "mcgavind" said he
                                                wanted in
                                                > > > his original post. We can start another thread about what Hose
                                                > likes to
                                                > > > ride.
                                                > > > Sergio (I think that was a shot LOL)
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • Ted
                                                Phil and Wayne will confirm whether theyt can make it to the ride tomorrow. Carl and I will be pedaling from Boynton at 7 AM. We ll meet up with Yoric at the
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Dec 4, 2008
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                                                  Phil and Wayne will confirm whether theyt can make it to the ride
                                                  tomorrow. Carl and I will be pedaling from Boynton at 7 AM. We'll meet
                                                  up with Yoric at the parking lot at Bryant Park (west side of LW
                                                  Bridge) at 7:45. Hope to see you there.

                                                  Save Saturday the 13th to join us again on the December 200 km ride.

                                                  --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Barrere"
                                                  <wbarrere@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Hi Ted,
                                                  >
                                                  > I will be in WPB this weekend. I would like to ride down and meet
                                                  > up with Phil in LW and join you all. If you speak with Phil, will
                                                  > you let me know what time will he be on A1A in LW? He can call me
                                                  > at 786 597 2091.
                                                  >
                                                  > Later,
                                                  > Bill
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, "Ted"
                                                  > <teabone@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Dan,
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Carl (Bacchetta Corsa) and I are just a few miles north of Delray in
                                                  > > west Boynton. We are going to ride from there to Palm Bch inlet and
                                                  > > back this Saturday, leaving at 7 AM. You're welcome to join us.
                                                  > We'll
                                                  > > probably meet up with a couple more riders along the way (Phil -
                                                  > > Strada), Wayne (HP Velotechnik streetmachine), and Yoric (Aero).
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Of course the rest of you are welcome to join us too. Lake Worth Bch
                                                  > > is where most of us meet (about 7:45 AM), varying speeds of 16 mph
                                                  > up
                                                  > > to ??? with regroup points. We plan to hit Starbucks (in WP Bch) on
                                                  > > the way back.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Ted
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, Daniel McGavin
                                                  > > <mcgavind@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Thanks, Ted. Sound advice from an experienced rider. Just what I
                                                  > > need. Thanks to the others as well. I appreciate an active group!!
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Josh, I'll be around as soon as possible.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > As soon as I can, for sure at the first of the year, I'll be
                                                  > joining
                                                  > > some rides.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Are there any rides/riders in the Delray Beach area?
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Dan McGavin
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > ________________________________
                                                  > > > From: Ted <teabone@>
                                                  > > > To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 3:08:57 PM
                                                  > > > Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that, yet.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Hose,
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > While I humbly defer to your keen intellect, vastly superior
                                                  > > > knowledge, and many many many many years of recumbent experience,
                                                  > I
                                                  > > > still think that McGavinD might soon be disappointed with anything
                                                  > > > slower than a highracer. However, your criticisms are valid. I
                                                  > just
                                                  > > > think that the benefits outweigh the liabilities.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Recap follows for McGavinD:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Hose said: "I didn't think it handled well on trails where you
                                                  > have
                                                  > > > lots of tight turns and you may need to bike at a very low speed."
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > - This is true to a degree, especially if you ride it in it's
                                                  > most
                                                  > > > efficient, very reclined position. In this laid back position you
                                                  > lose
                                                  > > > the view of the ground directly ahead of your front wheel and you
                                                  > are
                                                  > > > not able to employ body english for tricky maneuvers. I've
                                                  > cultivated
                                                  > > > a kind of "look ahead" peripheral-type vision that allows me to
                                                  > > > anticipate, mostly obviating the need to see the front wheel on
                                                  > the
                                                  > > > pavement.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > In cases where I need to "thread a needle", I unclip at least one
                                                  > foot
                                                  > > > (sometimes both) and lean forward off the seat back. With the
                                                  > short
                                                  > > > wheelbase of the highracer (pretty close to that of a DF), in this
                                                  > > > position I find that I have very near the handling of a DF (pls
                                                  > pardon
                                                  > > > the profanity) including body english. It doesn't happen all that
                                                  > > > often, but has become second nature to me when needed.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Joe said: "I'm gonna step in from afar (China) and suggest ye join
                                                  > one
                                                  > > > of Jose's or Josh's or the Okee rides so you can see the different
                                                  > > > bents up close and personal.... I'm will'n to bet someone will
                                                  > actually
                                                  > > > let you test ride one in a big ol empty parking lot."
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > - I heartily second this. Actually, ride multiple times before
                                                  > > > deciding, if you can. Since the balance and the muscle groups used
                                                  > are
                                                  > > > different, it take a bit of getting used to before you can make a
                                                  > > > sound judgment. In reality , it will take 500-600 miles to become
                                                  > > > fully acclimated, so keep an open mind on your test rides and know
                                                  > > > that the initial strangeness becomes "as natural as riding a bike"
                                                  > > > with time.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > I started with my seat fairly upright and then lowered it a notch
                                                  > > > every couple weeks, allowing my mind time to adjust.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Sergio said: "Bacchetta high racers will ride faster than what you
                                                  > got
                                                  > > > once you get use to it and be more confortable. "
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > - Yup, he's right about that.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Another thing that has not been mentioned yet... Riding in the
                                                  > > > efficiently reclined highracer position makes it difficult to look
                                                  > > > behind you. A mirror (or two) is a requirement. Joe does well with
                                                  > the
                                                  > > > "Take-A-Look" helmet mounted small mirror. I like the handlebar
                                                  > > > mounted type. When making a potentially life threatening move in
                                                  > > > traffic I still rely on a direct (not reflected) view. To look
                                                  > behind
                                                  > > > requires that I lean forward a bit (again off the seat back) to be
                                                  > > > able to swivel my head far enough to see directly behind me. This
                                                  > is
                                                  > > > easier to do on one of the more upright (and therefore less
                                                  > efficient)
                                                  > > > bikes such as the CLWB (4 letter word, Hose ;-) ).
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Early in my highracer experience I had difficulties with numb toes
                                                  > > > after a few miles. I attribute it to the higher bottom bracket.
                                                  > Much
                                                  > > > excellent advice was offered on this forum on how to cope with it.
                                                  > I
                                                  > > > think that time has been the best cure as it doesn't happen nearly
                                                  > as
                                                  > > > often or as quickly as before. I may have grown more capillaries
                                                  > in my
                                                  > > > feet to compensate.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > All in all, any recumbent bike model will be far more comfortable.
                                                  > The
                                                  > > > highracer just allows you to comfortable at a higher speed.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Ted
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com, "seragram"
                                                  > > > <seragram@ .> wrote:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com,
                                                  > BentWheeler@
                                                  > > > > wrote:
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a
                                                  > highracer.
                                                  > > > > > Sergio
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT close
                                                  > to
                                                  > > that
                                                  > > > > two letter word :-)
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > I know that Hose. But this is about what "mcgavind" said he
                                                  > wanted in
                                                  > > > > his original post. We can start another thread about what Hose
                                                  > > likes to
                                                  > > > > ride.
                                                  > > > > Sergio (I think that was a shot LOL)
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                • Phil
                                                  Hi Bill, I think I ll drive down to LW, ride over the bridge and meet Ted and Carl on the north side of the beach at 7;45. Hope to see you there. Phil ... in
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Dec 5, 2008
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                                                    Hi Bill,

                                                    I think I'll drive down to LW, ride over the bridge and meet Ted and
                                                    Carl on the north side of the beach at 7;45. Hope to see you there.

                                                    Phil


                                                    --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Barrere"
                                                    <wbarrere@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi Ted,
                                                    >
                                                    > I will be in WPB this weekend. I would like to ride down and meet
                                                    > up with Phil in LW and join you all. If you speak with Phil, will
                                                    > you let me know what time will he be on A1A in LW? He can call me
                                                    > at 786 597 2091.
                                                    >
                                                    > Later,
                                                    > Bill
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, "Ted"
                                                    > <teabone@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Dan,
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Carl (Bacchetta Corsa) and I are just a few miles north of Delray
                                                    in
                                                    > > west Boynton. We are going to ride from there to Palm Bch inlet
                                                    and
                                                    > > back this Saturday, leaving at 7 AM. You're welcome to join us.
                                                    > We'll
                                                    > > probably meet up with a couple more riders along the way (Phil -
                                                    > > Strada), Wayne (HP Velotechnik streetmachine), and Yoric (Aero).
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Of course the rest of you are welcome to join us too. Lake Worth
                                                    Bch
                                                    > > is where most of us meet (about 7:45 AM), varying speeds of 16
                                                    mph
                                                    > up
                                                    > > to ??? with regroup points. We plan to hit Starbucks (in WP Bch)
                                                    on
                                                    > > the way back.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Ted
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, Daniel McGavin
                                                    > > <mcgavind@> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Thanks, Ted. Sound advice from an experienced rider. Just
                                                    what I
                                                    > > need. Thanks to the others as well. I appreciate an active
                                                    group!!
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Josh, I'll be around as soon as possible.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > As soon as I can, for sure at the first of the year, I'll be
                                                    > joining
                                                    > > some rides.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Are there any rides/riders in the Delray Beach area?
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Dan McGavin
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > ________________________________
                                                    > > > From: Ted <teabone@>
                                                    > > > To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 3:08:57 PM
                                                    > > > Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that,
                                                    yet.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Hose,
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > While I humbly defer to your keen intellect, vastly superior
                                                    > > > knowledge, and many many many many years of recumbent
                                                    experience,
                                                    > I
                                                    > > > still think that McGavinD might soon be disappointed with
                                                    anything
                                                    > > > slower than a highracer. However, your criticisms are valid. I
                                                    > just
                                                    > > > think that the benefits outweigh the liabilities.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Recap follows for McGavinD:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Hose said: "I didn't think it handled well on trails where you
                                                    > have
                                                    > > > lots of tight turns and you may need to bike at a very low
                                                    speed."
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > - This is true to a degree, especially if you ride it in it's
                                                    > most
                                                    > > > efficient, very reclined position. In this laid back position
                                                    you
                                                    > lose
                                                    > > > the view of the ground directly ahead of your front wheel and
                                                    you
                                                    > are
                                                    > > > not able to employ body english for tricky maneuvers. I've
                                                    > cultivated
                                                    > > > a kind of "look ahead" peripheral-type vision that allows me to
                                                    > > > anticipate, mostly obviating the need to see the front wheel on
                                                    > the
                                                    > > > pavement.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > In cases where I need to "thread a needle", I unclip at least
                                                    one
                                                    > foot
                                                    > > > (sometimes both) and lean forward off the seat back. With the
                                                    > short
                                                    > > > wheelbase of the highracer (pretty close to that of a DF), in
                                                    this
                                                    > > > position I find that I have very near the handling of a DF (pls
                                                    > pardon
                                                    > > > the profanity) including body english. It doesn't happen all
                                                    that
                                                    > > > often, but has become second nature to me when needed.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Joe said: "I'm gonna step in from afar (China) and suggest ye
                                                    join
                                                    > one
                                                    > > > of Jose's or Josh's or the Okee rides so you can see the
                                                    different
                                                    > > > bents up close and personal.... I'm will'n to bet someone will
                                                    > actually
                                                    > > > let you test ride one in a big ol empty parking lot."
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > - I heartily second this. Actually, ride multiple times before
                                                    > > > deciding, if you can. Since the balance and the muscle groups
                                                    used
                                                    > are
                                                    > > > different, it take a bit of getting used to before you can make
                                                    a
                                                    > > > sound judgment. In reality , it will take 500-600 miles to
                                                    become
                                                    > > > fully acclimated, so keep an open mind on your test rides and
                                                    know
                                                    > > > that the initial strangeness becomes "as natural as riding a
                                                    bike"
                                                    > > > with time.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > I started with my seat fairly upright and then lowered it a
                                                    notch
                                                    > > > every couple weeks, allowing my mind time to adjust.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Sergio said: "Bacchetta high racers will ride faster than what
                                                    you
                                                    > got
                                                    > > > once you get use to it and be more confortable. "
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > - Yup, he's right about that.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Another thing that has not been mentioned yet... Riding in the
                                                    > > > efficiently reclined highracer position makes it difficult to
                                                    look
                                                    > > > behind you. A mirror (or two) is a requirement. Joe does well
                                                    with
                                                    > the
                                                    > > > "Take-A-Look" helmet mounted small mirror. I like the handlebar
                                                    > > > mounted type. When making a potentially life threatening move in
                                                    > > > traffic I still rely on a direct (not reflected) view. To look
                                                    > behind
                                                    > > > requires that I lean forward a bit (again off the seat back) to
                                                    be
                                                    > > > able to swivel my head far enough to see directly behind me.
                                                    This
                                                    > is
                                                    > > > easier to do on one of the more upright (and therefore less
                                                    > efficient)
                                                    > > > bikes such as the CLWB (4 letter word, Hose ;-) ).
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Early in my highracer experience I had difficulties with numb
                                                    toes
                                                    > > > after a few miles. I attribute it to the higher bottom bracket.
                                                    > Much
                                                    > > > excellent advice was offered on this forum on how to cope with
                                                    it.
                                                    > I
                                                    > > > think that time has been the best cure as it doesn't happen
                                                    nearly
                                                    > as
                                                    > > > often or as quickly as before. I may have grown more
                                                    capillaries
                                                    > in my
                                                    > > > feet to compensate.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > All in all, any recumbent bike model will be far more
                                                    comfortable.
                                                    > The
                                                    > > > highracer just allows you to comfortable at a higher speed.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Ted
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups.
                                                    com, "seragram"
                                                    > > > <seragram@ .> wrote:
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com,
                                                    > BentWheeler@
                                                    > > > > wrote:
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a
                                                    > highracer.
                                                    > > > > > Sergio
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT
                                                    close
                                                    > to
                                                    > > that
                                                    > > > > two letter word :-)
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > I know that Hose. But this is about what "mcgavind" said he
                                                    > wanted in
                                                    > > > > his original post. We can start another thread about what Hose
                                                    > > likes to
                                                    > > > > ride.
                                                    > > > > Sergio (I think that was a shot LOL)
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                  • Bill Barrere
                                                    Thanks Phil, Ted said he was going to meet up with Yoric at Bryant Park. I guess we will all meet at the beach. Sat. 7:45, 786 597 2091
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Dec 5, 2008
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                                                      Thanks Phil,

                                                      Ted said he was going to meet up with Yoric at Bryant Park. I guess we
                                                      will all meet at the beach.

                                                      Sat. 7:45, 786 597 2091
                                                      Bill


                                                      --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, "Phil"
                                                      <pdavidso100@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Hi Bill,
                                                      >
                                                      > I think I'll drive down to LW, ride over the bridge and meet Ted and
                                                      > Carl on the north side of the beach at 7;45. Hope to see you there.
                                                      >
                                                      > Phil
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Barrere"
                                                      > <wbarrere@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Hi Ted,
                                                      > >
                                                      > > I will be in WPB this weekend. I would like to ride down and meet
                                                      > > up with Phil in LW and join you all. If you speak with Phil, will
                                                      > > you let me know what time will he be on A1A in LW? He can call me
                                                      > > at 786 597 2091.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Later,
                                                      > > Bill
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, "Ted"
                                                      > > <teabone@> wrote:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Dan,
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Carl (Bacchetta Corsa) and I are just a few miles north of
                                                      Delray
                                                      > in
                                                      > > > west Boynton. We are going to ride from there to Palm Bch inlet
                                                      > and
                                                      > > > back this Saturday, leaving at 7 AM. You're welcome to join us.
                                                      > > We'll
                                                      > > > probably meet up with a couple more riders along the way (Phil -
                                                      > > > Strada), Wayne (HP Velotechnik streetmachine), and Yoric (Aero).
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Of course the rest of you are welcome to join us too. Lake Worth
                                                      > Bch
                                                      > > > is where most of us meet (about 7:45 AM), varying speeds of 16
                                                      > mph
                                                      > > up
                                                      > > > to ??? with regroup points. We plan to hit Starbucks (in WP Bch)
                                                      > on
                                                      > > > the way back.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Ted
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com, Daniel
                                                      McGavin
                                                      > > > <mcgavind@> wrote:
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Thanks, Ted. Sound advice from an experienced rider. Just
                                                      > what I
                                                      > > > need. Thanks to the others as well. I appreciate an active
                                                      > group!!
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Josh, I'll be around as soon as possible.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > As soon as I can, for sure at the first of the year, I'll be
                                                      > > joining
                                                      > > > some rides.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Are there any rides/riders in the Delray Beach area?
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Dan McGavin
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > ________________________________
                                                      > > > > From: Ted <teabone@>
                                                      > > > > To: SouthFloridaRecumbentRiders@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 3:08:57 PM
                                                      > > > > Subject: Re: SFRR: Advice for a newbie, well, not even that,
                                                      > yet.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Hose,
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > While I humbly defer to your keen intellect, vastly superior
                                                      > > > > knowledge, and many many many many years of recumbent
                                                      > experience,
                                                      > > I
                                                      > > > > still think that McGavinD might soon be disappointed with
                                                      > anything
                                                      > > > > slower than a highracer. However, your criticisms are valid. I
                                                      > > just
                                                      > > > > think that the benefits outweigh the liabilities.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Recap follows for McGavinD:
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Hose said: "I didn't think it handled well on trails where you
                                                      > > have
                                                      > > > > lots of tight turns and you may need to bike at a very low
                                                      > speed."
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > - This is true to a degree, especially if you ride it in it's
                                                      > > most
                                                      > > > > efficient, very reclined position. In this laid back position
                                                      > you
                                                      > > lose
                                                      > > > > the view of the ground directly ahead of your front wheel and
                                                      > you
                                                      > > are
                                                      > > > > not able to employ body english for tricky maneuvers. I've
                                                      > > cultivated
                                                      > > > > a kind of "look ahead" peripheral-type vision that allows me
                                                      to
                                                      > > > > anticipate, mostly obviating the need to see the front wheel
                                                      on
                                                      > > the
                                                      > > > > pavement.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > In cases where I need to "thread a needle", I unclip at least
                                                      > one
                                                      > > foot
                                                      > > > > (sometimes both) and lean forward off the seat back. With the
                                                      > > short
                                                      > > > > wheelbase of the highracer (pretty close to that of a DF), in
                                                      > this
                                                      > > > > position I find that I have very near the handling of a DF
                                                      (pls
                                                      > > pardon
                                                      > > > > the profanity) including body english. It doesn't happen all
                                                      > that
                                                      > > > > often, but has become second nature to me when needed.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Joe said: "I'm gonna step in from afar (China) and suggest ye
                                                      > join
                                                      > > one
                                                      > > > > of Jose's or Josh's or the Okee rides so you can see the
                                                      > different
                                                      > > > > bents up close and personal.... I'm will'n to bet someone will
                                                      > > actually
                                                      > > > > let you test ride one in a big ol empty parking lot."
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > - I heartily second this. Actually, ride multiple times before
                                                      > > > > deciding, if you can. Since the balance and the muscle groups
                                                      > used
                                                      > > are
                                                      > > > > different, it take a bit of getting used to before you can
                                                      make
                                                      > a
                                                      > > > > sound judgment. In reality , it will take 500-600 miles to
                                                      > become
                                                      > > > > fully acclimated, so keep an open mind on your test rides and
                                                      > know
                                                      > > > > that the initial strangeness becomes "as natural as riding a
                                                      > bike"
                                                      > > > > with time.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > I started with my seat fairly upright and then lowered it a
                                                      > notch
                                                      > > > > every couple weeks, allowing my mind time to adjust.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Sergio said: "Bacchetta high racers will ride faster than what
                                                      > you
                                                      > > got
                                                      > > > > once you get use to it and be more confortable. "
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > - Yup, he's right about that.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Another thing that has not been mentioned yet... Riding in the
                                                      > > > > efficiently reclined highracer position makes it difficult to
                                                      > look
                                                      > > > > behind you. A mirror (or two) is a requirement. Joe does well
                                                      > with
                                                      > > the
                                                      > > > > "Take-A-Look" helmet mounted small mirror. I like the
                                                      handlebar
                                                      > > > > mounted type. When making a potentially life threatening move
                                                      in
                                                      > > > > traffic I still rely on a direct (not reflected) view. To look
                                                      > > behind
                                                      > > > > requires that I lean forward a bit (again off the seat back)
                                                      to
                                                      > be
                                                      > > > > able to swivel my head far enough to see directly behind me.
                                                      > This
                                                      > > is
                                                      > > > > easier to do on one of the more upright (and therefore less
                                                      > > efficient)
                                                      > > > > bikes such as the CLWB (4 letter word, Hose ;-) ).
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Early in my highracer experience I had difficulties with numb
                                                      > toes
                                                      > > > > after a few miles. I attribute it to the higher bottom
                                                      bracket.
                                                      > > Much
                                                      > > > > excellent advice was offered on this forum on how to cope with
                                                      > it.
                                                      > > I
                                                      > > > > think that time has been the best cure as it doesn't happen
                                                      > nearly
                                                      > > as
                                                      > > > > often or as quickly as before. I may have grown more
                                                      > capillaries
                                                      > > in my
                                                      > > > > feet to compensate.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > All in all, any recumbent bike model will be far more
                                                      > comfortable.
                                                      > > The
                                                      > > > > highracer just allows you to comfortable at a higher speed.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Ted
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups.
                                                      > com, "seragram"
                                                      > > > > <seragram@ .> wrote:
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > --- In SouthFloridaRecumbe ntRiders@ yahoogroups. com,
                                                      > > BentWheeler@
                                                      > > > > > wrote:
                                                      > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > In my own experience the closest recumbent to a DF is a
                                                      > > highracer.
                                                      > > > > > > Sergio
                                                      > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > And that is why I like riding things that are not THAT
                                                      > close
                                                      > > to
                                                      > > > that
                                                      > > > > > two letter word :-)
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > I know that Hose. But this is about what "mcgavind" said he
                                                      > > wanted in
                                                      > > > > > his original post. We can start another thread about what
                                                      Hose
                                                      > > > likes to
                                                      > > > > > ride.
                                                      > > > > > Sergio (I think that was a shot LOL)
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
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